2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy Joe Biden Is More ‘Likable’ Than Hillary
An excellent point.
http://www.thenation.com/article/why-joe-biden-is-more-likable-than-hillary/
When they came back from a commercial break, the crowd was chanting Joe! Joe! Joe! as if at a campaign rally. Colbert, naturally, asked about Bidens presidential plans, and Biden said he couldnt commit: I dont think any man or woman should run for president unless, number one, they know exactly why they would want to be president, and two, they can look at folks out there and say, I promise you have my whole heart, my whole soul, my energy, and my passion to do this. And Id be lying if I said that I knew I was there. He spoke about how he recently broke down when he met one of his sons former military colleagues on a rope line. By the time the interview was over, Colbert was practically begging him to run, and many of the people watching were probably silently doing the same.
Today, invidious comparisons to Hillary Clintona person who has never been described as universally liked, or without a façadeare everywhere. In a Washington Post piece titled The Amazing Honesty of Joe Biden, Chris Cillizza writes, Where Clinton is struggling with the perception that she is neither honest nor trustworthy, Biden is all honesty. Where Clinton is cautious and closed off, Biden is spontaneous and an open book. Russell Berman writes at The Atlantic, Clintons poll numbers are sinking, at least in part, because she is seen, once again, as the epitome of caution and parsing. Biden may be the consummate politician, but he is seen as the opposite.
Cillizza and Berman are right about the perceptions. It seems worth pointing out, however, that no woman has the option of this kind of candor. Try to answer this question: Is there a single woman in America about whom anyone could say, Everybody likes her, right? (I mean besides Beyoncé, who is worshiped for her aloof perfection.) A female candidate who was prone, as Biden is, to veering off script and saying things she should not wouldnt seem frank and lovable. She would seem sloppy and unstable. No woman could say on national television that she might be too emotionally fragile to run for president, and still be seen as someone who could actually run for president.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)She totally lacks the people skills and outgoing personality that her husband (or Joe Biden for that matter) has. She seems very stiff and uncomfortable in campaign settings and she just doesn't seem happy in the role she has chosen.
Likability is not the trait I want to see in a president however. I could support an introvert like Hillary if I thought she advocated policies that I agree with and if I could trust her. She doesn't and I can't so I don't support her.
eridani
(51,907 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)and be taken seriously as a candidate.
I do believe however that a woman without Hillary's penchant for secrecy and Nixon-like paranoia would be respected a lot more as legitimate presidential material.
Elizabeth Warren, just to name one, is no stand up comic or celebrity roast emcee, but she is regarded positively as a no nonsense thinker who is open and direct in her manner.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Why is Elizabeth Warren more likeable than Hillary? Let's face it, a lot of people of both genders and a wide range of ages tried...I mean really tried to get her to run.
Elizabeth doesn't play nice, meaning that she isn't afraid to fight and she is a woman of a certain age...on paper, she sounds like Hillary but she can "get away" with a scolding tone and a lets take care of business demeanor that doesn't play on feminity or the society's idealization of an acceptable woman.
It is funny, she doesn't trigger the usual female role models, ( trying to find a better word and losing). She isn't warm and fuzzy, she isn't a triple A CEO We can have it all rocket, she doesn't have a struggle energy, grandmotherly or even maternal..
The closest model of woman I can attach her to is the Crone.
This doesn't mean like evil old woman from Disney but this
http://www.mamasminstrel.net/bio_captimes.htm
If you look beyond the negative connotations of a patriarchal society, however, hag is actually an old word for "holy woman," Vedder-Shults says.
Besides that, an older definition of crone stems from ancient cultures, which associated one aspect of goddess worship with crones and profound power.
"A lot of women have decided to use 'crone' as a word of power to propel us forward," Vedder-Shults says. "Crones are women who speak their mind, but they're speaking from inner wisdom and experience."
Boy, I have no idea how this thought will land on this site, but the Mexican and Native side celebrated the wisdom and guidence of the elder woman. For me, Hillary doesn't have that essence to her, but Elizabeth in New England flavor (boy, she is more straight forward than a flowery Mexican) seems to tap into the realm of wiser woman who is speaking in care of the community.
MoveIt
(399 posts)however others can also make their point, feel free to refute any falsehoods.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)I will give you that.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)There's a LONG way to go before that really deep-rooted sexism is gone.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but individual personality.
elizabeth warren comes across very well, as do other women in politics, including our awesome first lady.
there are also many men in politics who people could describe as untrustworty or unlikeable.
lots.
eridani
(51,907 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)as he was, yeah, i think she could.
eridani
(51,907 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i guess we will be able to test the theory.
i do remember people getting on boehners case for crying. so it is not limited to female candidates. perhaps the sincerity of the person is a factor (biden vs boehner for example)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)They're probably not the originals- not by a long shot- but the guy has a giant, shit-eating grin.
People like that.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I always enjoyed him on the late night shows. He is someone I like on a personal level...even though we have never met. He seems like a fun customer to have on your 4 top at your restaurant job on a Friday night.
He is very good at making me forget about the Anita Hill hearings, the Patriot Act and the bancruptcy laws. He is that good.
I love him...even if he is pretty right of what I would like, he is pretty fucking likeable.
Buzz cook
(2,472 posts)
As first lady, she once told Time magazine that she longed for a second childshe and Bill had had difficulty conceiving Chelseaand might adopt. The press found this uproarious. Maureen Dowd made a crack about Chelseas new little sister, Tribeca. There is a demand that Clinton prove herself a real human being, but no real human being could appear before the public unguarded, having endured the sort of merciless, jeering personal scrutiny that she has.
When Hillary has been self revelatory she gets slapped down. That has been true from at least since 1992.
Hard to be "genuine" when you have to second guess everything you say.
Biden is a nice likable guy, but don't forget the other village narrative about Biden is that he is a gaffe prone clown.
It's all about the media narrative.
The OP is right that Clinton is treated differently than Biden because she is a woman, but it is more true to say she is treated differently because she is a Clinton.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's not.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)About him working on his Trans Am in the white house driveway.