2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary AND Bernie Partisans: STOP Posting RW Talking points
That goes for Bernie Partisans too. I've mentioned time and again that there is a well funded Right wing group dedicated to sowing dissension and undermining Hillary's chances because they see her as the most likely candidate in November.
Now that Bernie is getting traction, the guns have turned on him. The latest example: the Wall St. Journal's Editorial Board, a bunch of Right Wind Murdoch shills, has posted a disingenuous estimate of Bernie Sander's proposals and their cost which they estimate at EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS.
Immediately the right wing calliope began blasting this all over hell and gone, and Hillary's partisans immediately seized upon this and gleefully posted it everywhere, without consideration of the actual figures or anything about where the 18 trillion figure came from.
At DU where the friction is most pointedly at it's most fractious, the reposting of right wing crap is epidemic. Pandemic. On both sides.
Where did the WSJ get the 18 Trillion figure? Well, someone put up a bill in congress proposing universal healthcare, and they projected the cost at 15 trillion or so.
Yes, a majority of this figure is based upon universal health care.
Over at Plum Line, WaPo's politics blog, Paul Waldman explains the details nicely. (supscription may be required) A brief quote:
And lets say that it did indeed cost $15 trillion over 10 years. Would that be $15 trillion in new money wed be spending? No, it would be money that were already spending on health care, but now it would go through government. If I told you I could cut your health insurance premiums by $1,000 and increase your taxes by $1,000, you wouldnt have lost $1,000. Youd be in the same place you are now.
By the logic of the scary $18 trillion number, you could take a candidate who has proposed nothing on health care, and say, So-and-so proposes spending $42 trillion on health care! It would be accurate, but not particularly informative.
Theres something else to keep in mind: every single-payer system in the world, and there are many of them of varying flavors, is cheaper than the American health care system. Every single one. So whatever you might say about Sanders advocacy for a single-payer system, you cant say it represents some kind of profligate, free-spending idea that would cost us all terrible amounts of money.
No matter who the eventual nominee is, eyes on the prize, everybody. Get ready for a dump truck load of lies disguised as truths and targeted to your particular predilections.
saturnsring
(1,832 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)No matter who does it or who is the target, it is all ludicrous.....yet here we are!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)insurance companies? The reason we don't have single payer now is because insurance companies reimburse providers closer to their costs.
If you have Medicare for all then everyone falls under the Prospective Payment System which is the formula that determines Medicare reimbursements.
We a already pay for part A through payroll tax. Part A is hospital bed day payment insurance. We would need to pay more for the rest of medical care. Already the big complaint about the ACA is it forces you to buy insurance. Single payer would too, the only difference is the Fed government is the insurer.
Also reimbursements would be less and more people will be seeking care so care givers will make less and we will need more of them.
There is a lot more to this than 18 billion dollars. Also if an idea is true it is true no matter where it comes from.
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)I'm sure if we devote a little energy to this conundrum of insurance companies ( and prescription drug costs btw) We'll be able to make it work.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)real problems that need to be solved. That is one of my problems with Bernie. I have listened to him say the same things over and over for years without ever saying how it will get done. All he does is introduce legislation that he knows will go no where.
liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)Ignoring the fact that one of them will have to beat right wing fundamentalism in the general.
All this hurt put on these candidates own will haunt them in the general election.