This country will absolutely NOT elect a self-described socialist. Sanders would be slaughtered.

[RBInMaine]

Bernie is great. He is wonderful. His heart is the right place. He is strong on his issues and convictions. He is authentic and passionate. I agree with him on most policy ideas. I would vote for him if nominated. But people are in fantasy land if they think he could win the general election which is exactly why odds makers and people like Nate Silver give him about a ten percent chance of even winning the nomination, let alone the general election.

The Republicans would CRUSH HIM with ENDLESS campaign ads showing him as a self described socialist, and anyone who knows America and its history and culture knows it is IMPOSSIBLE for a self declared socialist to win a general presidential election in this country. It would be a slaughter. Much as I like him, reality must win out. And it will. Sanders may win the NH primary. I doubt he'll win Iowa. After some amount of early success, the dominoes will fall VERY fast. He can't win the general. He is good for the primary and good for the party in some broad ways, but he won't be the nominee because he would never have a hope in hell of winning the general election.

And the same thing is going to happen on the GOP side. Trump, Fiorina, and Carson are going to float down river and sink. They will go with Bush, Rubio, or Kasich.

People must understand, the ENTIRE U.S. ain't Vermont. This is a very, very different ballgame. Welcome to reality.

[think]

1. Your fear is noted. I will continue to support the RIGHT choice regardless.

[Babel_17]

21. Huh, the first post in this thread, and you nailed it

K&R

[treestar]

56. What is wrong with fear

Of an R president with an R congress ?

[Armstead]

123. That's only part of the equation

Also have to have something to be FOR.

[treestar]

182. I am for the ACA to continue

which would not happen with an R President with an R Congress. I am also for using diplomacy to avoid war, which will only happen with a D President. The Rs these days are looking for an excuse to have a war.

[Armstead]

220. You don't have to convince me of the importance of keeping the GOP down

But there have been and always will be reasons for that.

The question is how to do that and -- just as important -- what Democrats can offer that's a pro-active and positive alternative to their CONservatism, not just a perpetual holding action.

Plenty of room for differences of opinion on that but, to return to the original point, we can't only operate out of fear of the GOP. It's important to be equally promoting a counter agenda to the GOP.

[roguevalley]

300. if you like him enough but have this notion he can't be elected then you want the lesser to

win because somehow they are electable. Given that she has fallen steadily since Bernie started means that nothing that was sure once is sure now. I won't settle for someone else. I will vote and work for Bernie. No more settling. The world can't live through it. I am not afraid.

[MrMickeysMom]

234. That's what you don't seem to get, treestar

And, I would think after the GWB administration with all of its fallout, you would see the absolutely negative results that push us further and further back in time as a result of fear mongering.

The fact is, most Americans are responding to what Bernie Sanders is saying. After they know who he is, they see the true definition of progressive platforms of Democratic Socialism.

A D who votes like an R is an R of another name. You seem to have not come out of the spin of how either one of these parties have morphed what D and R even MEAN.

Have a cup of coffee and take your time about this one.

[treestar]

314. I don't get what is wrong with fear

of an R President with an R Congress. What horrible things they would do.

[MrMickeysMom]

318. If so, you've proven how much power someone or something has over you...

Fear of a child running out into the street is one thing…

But what about this… fear when a message driven over and over again to consumers of media (and all that media is owned by one entity repeating the same negative connotation the same subject) allows very powerful people (or those who are powerful and owe it to others who are even MORE powerful) to reach lots of other people who rely on controlled information, thus forming their boogie-man ideas from TPTB.

This prevailed propaganda has control over many. You really have to think for your own self. And when you see how similar people in high places start doing the same thing, you start to see that we shouldn't be fearful, so much as pissed off. We should rely on our own knowledge, not seek external validation of what 2+2 is… We should care if they aren't doing what is right for us in Congress, regardless of WHAT party they are.

When you start believing it's only because someone is this or that, you stop thinking for yourself because you've been given so much of this shit that you are frustrated.

treestar… How many fingers am I holding up?

[olegramps]

88. An example of the hatred of the Right Wing is demostrated by their attacks on Clinton.

Most assuredly their campaign would be intensified if Sanders won the nomination. They will stop at nothing to destroy an opponent. It seems strange to me that some on this board seem to in the same camp and do not hesitate to use the same overblown rhetoric in regard to Hilary Clinton. While I much enjoy DU and admire Sanders, I have to wonder are we in a bubble when I look at the polls? Can Sanders actually gain the universal support that will be required to win the election if he is the nominee? I believe that that is a fair question.

[Armstead]

128. I don'lt think they'd campaign against Sanders any more aggressively than any other Dem

It's not like they'd keep the gloves on if its Clinton or Biden or whomever.

Sanders has proven he can withstand dirty tactics from opponents and win. And his basic message is also popular, beyond the labels.

Why not assume it's at least possible?

[Ed Suspicious]

158. They couldn't beat a black, Muslim, Kenyan, socialist, fascist, inexperienced, evil,

community organizer, Bill Ayers loving, Jeremiah Wright following, pot smoker who wouldn't release his birth certificate and falsified his college records.

But I guess they went easy on him.

And I guess we've learned nothing over the past 8 years about how effective baseless republican attacks against good Americans work.

[wendylaroux]

184. SCOOOOOOORE!!!!!!

Very nicely put!

[SusanCalvin]

304. And that one turned out more corporatist than hoped/expected.

People are ready for the real thing.

[tecelote]

329. Agreed. Once America understands what we're talking about...

Socialism? Let's Cut to the Chase

Read the full article:
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/32536-socialism-lets-cut-to-the-chase

Excerpt:

...Recent painful examples of the nation’s wealth being redistributed from working class Americans to the wealthiest include the Iraq war and the so-called housing bubble collapse.

The Iraq War transferred, by all accounts, trillions of US taxpayer dollars into the coffers of arms manufacturers and contractors. It was in all likelihood the largest and most rapid such transference in history.

The housing boom-to-bust “Recession of 2008,” arguably continuing today, turned American homes into Wall Street commodities. The result was that millions of Americans lost their homes. Wall Street investors got rich betting on the bust, and those who lost money recovered it from investment insurers, who were then bailed out by the American taxpayer. Wealth redistributed – big time.

The conflict isn’t over Socialism, it’s over who should be allowed to enjoy its benefits. The nation’s wealthiest 1% of individuals and corporations do. Everyone else does not, but certainly should...

[Ed Suspicious]

149. Your post is perfect. Vote your future, not your fear.

[jkbRN]

203. You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!

I love to say "your fear is noted" especially when it comes to ppl like the OP.

[Vincardog]

231. Think nailed it. My vote goes to Bernie also.

[840high]

255. ...+1

[RBInMaine]

297. No fear. Just reality on the planet Earth. Explain how a "socialist" wins the election? Can you?

[roguevalley]

302. watch him. also, define socialist as you see it. I laughed when I asked others. They

can't define it either.

[corkhead]

2. DUPE

Is this a weekly thing for you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251607500

nobody under 60 is susceptible to red-baiting. your expert analysis is a little flawed

[Rectangle]

3. Wow! Thanks for the daily smear and fear from the HRC camp.

Does that mean that only Hillary's' slimy, Right wing, Wall Street
SUPERPAC money can save us??

[brooklynite]

84. UNREC

The OP said nothing negative about Bernie Sanders. He said something negative (but true) about the national electorate.

To facilitate further discussions, what issues CAN be raised about Sanders that are not "smears"?

[Fuddnik]

124. UNREC YOUR UNREC

NYAH NYAH NYAH....

[brooklynite]

156. I gave a reason for my UNREC...but yours was so much more thoughtful.

[Tom Rinaldo]

127. I disaree with the OP but agree with your point. n/t

[Armstead]

137. The difference between a "smear" and "facilitating further discussion"

If one is seriously interested in a respectful debate, it would be helpful not to accuse the supporters of a candidate as "living in fantasy land" because their favored candidate would be "slaughtered" and has absolutely no chance in hell of getting elected.

Yeah, when placed in those insulting and rigid terms, that is going to piss people off.

[Scootaloo]

209. Except it's an effort to discourage people from supporting Sanders

C'mon Brooklynite. I know you know how propaganda works.

[brooklynite]

235. ...and all those complaints about Bernie Sanders AREN'T attempts to discourage voting?

The essence of campaigning is to encourage support for candidate A, which by necessity discourages support for candidate B, C, D, E, etc. As long as the criticism is reasonable, it's not a smear. And electability is perfectly reasonable in my opinion. Feel free to prove the OP wrong by clearly explaining how Sanders wins a national election. Nobody else has.

[Scootaloo]

288. Because no one can see thirteen months into the fucking future, Brooklynite.

[Warren DeMontague]

294. we've gone back to "unelectable" from "his supporters are ruining twitter"

[RBInMaine]

296. You are living on Pluto if you think a self declared socialist can win the general election.

[roguevalley]

303. When they came for Pluto, I did nothing ...

[YOHABLO]

317. Explain why. How can you read the minds of the voting population? You don't have a clue.

[cui bono]

325. Well you aren't even in this galaxy if you can't see the support he already has garnered

in such a short period of time.

Not to mention the fact that you are making a false claim in order to attempt to scare people away from voting for him. He is a self declared democratic socialist. And btw... most Americans agree with all of his positions. So there's nothing to be afraid of.

And... no one is going to think twice when you keep bringing up the socialism scare because it was attempted unsuccessfully against Obama. So just give it up already. We know you are 'concerned'. You've stated it before. This is old news.

And anyway, if he can't win the general with that then he won't win the primary either, so you don't need to be 'concerned' about it.

[djean111]

4. Ah! Another Opinion Piece.

Must be very frustrating when other people just will not do what you tell them to do.

[left-of-center2012]

5. This country will absolutely NOT elect an African-American or Catholic

Oh wait - we did!

[ZM90]

6. This. ^ n/t.

[sarge43]

8. And no chance it would elect a woman president

Because, well, Repugs would use every sexist cliché available and think up some new ones.

This country never elects white men ...

Oh wait - we do.

[merrily]

38. WTF?

[treestar]

59. That is different from a political position

The Catholic and the black man were liberals , Democrats.

[Armstead]

151. These days, "liberals,Democrats" are already labeled socialist

Have you listened to the shit they say about Obama? To hear the GOP and their media outlets and followers, Obama is a cross between Karl Marx and the Ayahtollah, and a "radical community organizer."

Problem is, that too many Democrats have bought into those memes too. In terms of policies, Sanders is basically a liberal.

[treestar]

181. Yes the right wing does do that

The consider Obama a Marxist. They certainly consider Hillary a socialist, and will likely call her commie and Marxist too. Bernie would be even easier for them to rail on about it. And they own the media.

[Armstead]

185. I read somewhere that....

I read an astute political analysis a number of years ago that made a very good point. I wish I could remember who, but I can only remember the point.

That point was that the larger the real difference between opposing parties in an election, the more focus there was on actual issues, and less focus on the personalized attacks.

In other words, campaigns get nasty and personal and focus on things like Swift Boats, e-mail accounts and "muslim ties" and more on actual differences between Liberal (progressive) and Conservative (corporate) policies, values and goals.

The original author stated it much better -- and in a more comprehensive way -- than that. But it's an important point. If this election were made to be a clear and honest choice between the issues and beneficiaries of Liberal (progressive/socialist) and CONservative (corporate, the wealthy), the smeary side crap will have less traction, and we'd have a good chance of winning.

[RichVRichV]

192. The point is

the people who would never vote for Bernie because of socialism are the same people who would never vote for Hillary or Obama because of socialism. We were never getting that crowds vote anyways, regardless of candidate we run. For the rest of the country it's a minor or non-issue.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Do you seriously believe

that the millions of people who support Bernie on Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, Progressive blogs and Progressive web sites ONLINE and the millions of people who support him offline don't know he's a DEMOCRATIC Socialist? Do you know how many times the MSM has called him a "socialist" (trying to paint him as something he isn't -like you just did) and the people DON'T CARE. They know the difference between "socialist" and "DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST", so the boogie man "socialist" of old just won't work anymore.

People KNOW Bernie! He's not some scary crazy dude. His goodness shows in everything he says and does.

Plus, Millennials, one of his largest (if not THE largest) voting blocks, don't give two hoots about what YOU and the ESTABLISHMENT want to label him. It-just-doesn't-matter. Sorry.

Newsflash - The INTERNET IS THE GAME CHANGER HERE! Everyone, young and old, are now online and can learn about Bernie on their own. They don't need the misinformation the MSM and the GOP or Hillary campaign is feeding them. They already know THE TRUTH.

[upaloopa]

17. Those folks are not enough people to elect a President.

I don't get why Bernie people insist on thinking their bubble represents the whole country. You are the left wing of the Democratic party. Most of the country is in the center, either center right or center left.

[DeeDeeNY]

28. How do you define left wing?

[-none]

52. When one is that far Right of Center, Bernie would seem to be Left Wing, instead of in tune with

the majority of the American people, including many Republicans.
This country is being governed by the Right, against the will of the people. Hillary is not one who would help fix that problem.

[upaloopa]

53. The majority of Americans don't even know who Bernie Sanders is let alone what his positions are.

[virtualobserver]

65. the more people get to know him, the more they like him AND his positions

[ChiciB1]

110. WE HAVE LOTS & LOTS OF TIME LEFT!

We will fight the good fight, if we lose IMO America loses!!!

BERNIE, BERNIE, BERNIE, BERNIE, BERNIE, BERNIE... WE want BERNIE!

[Tommymac]

131. So let's have some more televised Debates so they cna make an informed choice...

And I tend to disagree btw - everywhere I go these days people are talking about Bernie.

While waiting for my order I overheard the 5 or 6 cooks in the pizza shop having a discussion about the upcoming election...and I simply said to them "feel the bern" - and they looked at me with huge grins and gave me thumbs up and said he was the one they were voting for. They knew.

People at a craft booth at a local fair were talking politics while I was perusing the wares ... and Bernie was mentioned by one sophisticated lady and the others all started saying how cool it was that he was running. They knew.

We have a Bernie 2016 bumper sticker on the car and get at least a dozen honks, thumbs up or smiles everyday. They knew.

The customers at a Barber shop in an minority area of Pittsburgh all talked about Bernie and liked him. They knew.

The unemployed males who inhabit the street corners in that same area rapped about Bernie. They knew.

He is all the rage on Campus here in Pittsburgh. They knew.

The Union Members marching in the Pittsburgh Labor Day Parade. They Knew.

Time Magazine. They knew.

The 99%. They KNOW.

#feelthebern

[Armstead]

157. So if they don't know who is is why assume he is poisnous from the start?

So seem to be drawing from a handy stack objections. First he's too "far left" -- whatever that means, and then is is too little known.

The "center" of the country is NOT supporting the rights of corporations to trample over everyone and buy the government, and siphon the economy from the middle to the top.

Sure it's not easy to break through the filters that have been set up against anyone who is not right of center, but information is part of politics.

[-none]

160. Actually most do know who Bernie is by now.

And they are watching and agreeing with him. Haven't you noticed the crowds he is drawing?

[frylock]

239. If only there was a forum, where he could get his issues out there for people to hear..

Last edited Sat Sep 26, 2015, 05:14 PM - Edit history (1)

you know, like some kind of debate.

[cui bono]

327. They don't need to know what his positions are to hold the same ones.

The fact is the majority of Americans agree with is positions. The majority of Americans agree with liberal positions. The meme that the country's people are center is false.

And considering the majority of Americans don't know who Bernie is, it certainly is quite a feat that he gets 6x the crowds that Hillary got on the road. And that's with the majority of Americans not knowing who he is. Next round he's going to be more known and he'll have to book stadiums to accommodate all the people who not only agree with is positions but want him to be president.

FELL THE BERN!!!

[DeeDeeNY]

55. Exactly

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. Honestly,

You need to get out in the REAL WORLD, out of your imaginary Hillary is Queen dream and find out what's really happening. I've met NO ONE who doesn't support Bernie.

The Main St. Middle Class has been screwed so badly by the Third Way Clintons and their ilk that none if them will EVER vote for the establishment candidate Hillary. She's plummeting in the polls for a reason. PAY ATTENTION!

In NH, Hillary has a rally where 600 people show up. Two days later, at the same venue, Bernie has a rally and 5 TIMES as many , 3,000 people attended. You need to ask yourself WHY THAT IS? It's not because more people support Hillary.

Bernie rallies:
11,000 attended in Phoenix, AZ
15,000 attended in Seattle, WA
28,000 attended in Portland, OR
27,500 attended in LA, CA

[dorkzilla]

40. S/he is on the Bernie hating “other” site that was uncovered yesterday

Don’t waste time or energy engaging those people.

THEY live in the bubble, not us. I can’t believe the projection here.

[murielm99]

77. Oh so that is why you were all so interested

in that site! So now you can target the DU members who post there. So you can blacklist and shun and make DU even more hateful than it has become. Thanks for your comments.

I can't believe the projection HERE.

[dorkzilla]

89. You’re clever, very clever...not.

We’re onto you guys. We’ve seen the vile shit you spew over there. We see how you harass members and alert stalk them.

I can’t believe you actually posted more projections. You guys are such kidders!

[murielm99]

256. We are the ones who will have the last laugh.

You will have to own your hate and slink away when Bernie loses. And he will.

That site would not have been needed if Bernie supporters were not spewing and bullying HERE.

[NealK]

261. You're projecting so much that it wouldn't fit on an IMAX screen.

[roguevalley]

307. I think some mean girls wandered in her to waaa about how they don't get respect. They

have that site, attack us over there and expect acceptance? Really, they should have locked it to members only and no one would have known. Maybe server stuff is beyond them too.

[NealK]

323. It's not rocket science to make a board viewable to members only.

In fact on these cheap boards it's a piece of cake, offen it's even the default option after installing the site's software. Pretty sure that they're doing it on purpose. And then they come here and whine because we go there and we're not too happy about the venom that we see being spewed. Oh well, kids will be kids.

[in_cog_ni_to]

95. "USELESS WHITE SUPREMACIST LIBERALS" and "RACISTS" came from HILLARY supporters, NOT Bernie

Supporters. You own it. Now, who's hateful? Go back to your new site and spew your lies there. It fits you all very well.

[murielm99]

254. I haven't been to the site.

There is enough hate here at DU to go around.

[merrily]

101. Irony meter just broke

[frylock]

240. So now you can target the DU members who post there who target the DU members who post here..

this is the lack of self awareness that I posted about the other day. Simply fascinating.

[murielm99]

253. Most of the people there were

alert-stalked here, so they found a place where they can speak freely.

Poor widdle Bernie supporters. Can't stand a taste of your own medicine.

[frylock]

259. Did people conspire on another forum to alert stalk them?

Self awareness, man.

[NealK]

265. Of course there is!

It's called BernieSupportersWho8DU.com

[roguevalley]

308. that came straight out of your behind. Nice try though. Having a pity party site is your thing,

not ours.

[NealK]

328. Uh?

I'm not part of that bunch, it was just a lame joke atempt.

[NealK]

247. You brought this upon yourself and now you reap what you sow.

So stop playing the victim, that's pitiful.

[murielm99]

252. Playing the victim?

Says the bully?

That's what people say who beat their wives and children.

[NealK]

258. So I beat my wife and children?

What a repulsive thing to say.

[murielm99]

268. I never said that.

You are so transparent.

[NealK]

270. Nice try, better luck next time.

[frylock]

263. Add spousal abuse to the list of things to associate Sanders supporters with..

it just never stops.

[murielm99]

269. I made a comparison.

I guess I hit a nerve. Bullies don't like getting a taste of their own medicine.

[NealK]

272. Yeah, I'm the bully. This time you're projecting so much...

that NASA should use you as a rocket engine. It would make faster than light travel possible.

[frylock]

273. You're comparison equating internet shit talk to spousal abuse was fucking disgusting..

and exactly what I've come to expect from a certain group of posters. Now go piss and moan on that other forum about how nasty and mean I am.

[murielm99]

283. I stand by what I said,

and I will continue to call bullying when I see it.

I have never been to the other site.

I will go where I please when I please.

[frylock]

284. doubling and tripling down..

good for you for having the courage of conviction to own that filth.

[roguevalley]

306. murielm99, what a laugh you gave me. You worry about us targeting people over there.

I read threads where names were named over here and much laughed at. I would post them but I don't think that's allowed. However if someone can clarify that I will. Very sad, that site. Very sad.

[murielm99]

315. We will have the last laugh.

You will be the sad ones. Bullies so often get what they deserve.

[NealK]

326. Is this a threat?

Pretty sure that it is one. You really have a lot of bile bottled up inside.

[in_cog_ni_to]

99. Yes, I know exactly who it is and I'm glad they have a new stomping ground

where they can spew all their hateful, vile crap at each other. That site is perfect for them. Good riddance.

[dorkzilla]

107. They’ll still buzz around here until we put them all on ignore

Then they can just sit in their little bubble and yell at each other until the fissures in their little clique get too big and their little Empire of Hate crumbles.

Some asshat actually posted a self-congratulatory “come see our great site” post a few minutes ago. Unbelievable.

[upaloopa]

57. Head counts at rallies don't mean shit. It's like you think those people can vote twice or

something. DU and Bernie rallies do not represent the real world. Most people have never even heard of Bernie Sanders.

And 10,000 debates won't change that.

[truebluegreen]

62. Shoo.

[redstateblues]

154. Bernie could have 10,000 people show up in my city Nashville

He would lose the state in a landslide. Rallies in big liberal cities are meaningless in regard to statewide election results

[roguevalley]

309. you seem to hate liberals and lefties. what an astonishing thing to say if you are a dem.

[frylock]

244. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[a2liberal]

64. +a million

This meme is getting old. I haven't met a single person, across the political spectrum, who would vote for Hillary but not Bernie (and almost none online, the lone exception being on this very board). I have met many people, including those who are historically right-wing, and average Joes sick of typical politicians, who are crazy about Bernie because of his authenticity and clamoring for a chance to vote for him. This unelectable meme is complete and utter bullshit.

[olegramps]

79. If you are correct, then I don't understand why the polls show her well ahead of Bernie?

[in_cog_ni_to]

87. Ignoring reality won't help you. n/t

[olegramps]

155. That is exactly what I am addressing. Why the disparity?

Just why are the national polls not reflecting what so many on this board believe is the reality? I have a difficult time accepting that there is some grand conspiracy afoot. All the polls that I have seen show the same result. Perhaps there will be a ground swell in support for Sanders after the debates that the majority on this board would welcome. He has made significant progress, however, it remains to be seen what the end result will be. It is evident that he has changed the emphasis on the issues, but if Clinton embraces the same issues, which it seems that she is doing, will that dampen the enthusiasm for Sanders and she will appear as the safe candidate.

[draa]

187. Because he's a unknown and you know that.

People insist on using the national polls as an example of Sanders' popularity. That's just silly. You have a person in Clinton who's been running for the White House for over 8 years, and one in Sanders who's been running for 4 months. And then you actually have people who look at polls and say "see, nobody likes him." It's disingenuous horseshit and you know it.

Sanders's policies aren't what's unpopular. He's not trailing in polls because people hate a socialist either. It's not his age, or his hair, or his "whiteness", it's because people don't know him yet. And that's what elections are for. People that learn about him generally support him and the more that do the worse it gets for Clinton.

By the way, if she doesn't win either Iowa or New Hampshire she'll likely lose anyway so maybe you should focus on that instead of some made up disingenuous crap that you're currently focusing on.

[olegramps]

236. You are not only rude, but also it is evidently you should work on your reading comprehension.

I didn't say nobody liked him. What the hell are you talking about. I said that his ratings could rise following the debates where he will get national attention and more people become acquainted with his goals for America. But that as Clinton subscribes increasingly to the very same agenda, she may appear to many as the safer bet.

[in_cog_ni_to]

242. No. Hillary will never be a safer bet

Because of her stance on every single important issue.

She:
Supports the TPP
Supports Fracking
Supports Wall St. Over Main St.
Supports Prisons for profits
Wars, wars, wars and MORE wars
Doesn't support free tuition for state Universities - because Bernie will tax her BFF'S on Wall St. to pay for it.
Supports the MIC
Supports GMO'S and Monsanto
Supports Corporations over We The People
Supports Corporate tax loopholes.
Supports the Oligarchy

SHE is part of the problem. For most people, Hillary will never be a safer bet. Not by a long shot.

[ChiciB1]

126. BE-CAUSE, MSM Ninnies & Corporatists Are Doing What

they can to tamp it down. I live in a Super Red County and so many people walk past my car and house and say "Go Bernie!" I'm amazed by this each and every time it happens because in the past I've had bumper stickers removed, yard signs stolen and many middle fingers pointed at me. I got used to bringing my yard signs in at night, but maybe this time they'll let them alone.

AND I live in FLORIDA! Think about THAT for a minute or two!

[a2liberal]

198. name recognition and the bullshit electability meme

But you knew that. Many primary voters haven't heard of him, and many others are falling prey to the lies that people like the OP are spreading about him being unelectable in the general and thus supporting Hillary when they actually prefer Bernie's positions.

Whether the corporatists like it or not, people who run on liberal positions win. In 2008 we campaigned on liberal policies and won a landslide. Then proceeded to govern as corporatists resulting in the subsequent losses.

[Jim Lane]

275. Speaking of polls....

The matchup polls that I've seen show Clinton and Sanders doing approximately the same against the leading Republicans. There are differences, sometimes favoring one and sometimes the other, and it depends on which Republican, but they're in the same ballpark. More than a year before the election, small differences don't matter.

Another poll result that I recall seeing is that Clinton's favorable-unfavorable rating is severely underwater, while Sanders is approximately even.

How will the campaign affect all this? Republicans will say over and over that Sanders is a socialist, which is bad news to many Americans. Democrats will say that big business has too much power, which most Americans agree with.

Then, of course, there are all the voters who are much less ideologically oriented than the average DUer. Some of them will vote against Sanders because he's Jewish or too old. Some will vote for him because they're tired of politics as usual and want an "outsider" type who'll shake up the system; they'd vote for either Trump or Sanders if precisely one of those is on the ballot.

On top of all those imponderable factors, don't forget turnout. Which Democrat would make it easiest for the GOP to mobilize its voters? They've been using "socialist" as a bogeyman for years. They've been demonizing Hillary Clinton for years. On our side, Clinton would bring some people to the polls, especially women, just because they want to see a woman as President. Sanders would bring some people to the polls, especially young people, who otherwise don't bother voting because they think the two parties are pretty much the same.

The conclusion I draw from all this is that assessing comparative chances in an election that's more than a year away is little more than guesswork.

[upaloopa]

102. Get back to me after Super Tuesday. Republicans don't vote in most Democratic Primaries.

[a2liberal]

196. That's not the point

We were talking about electability in the general. From my experience (again with acquaintances across the political spectrum), there exists almost no-one who wouldn't vote for Bernie but would vote for Hillary, while there exist many who would never vote for Hillary but are eager to vote for Bernie. He invokes a real enthusiasm in the average Joe tired of politics as usual, and even many conservatives tired of politics as usual (believe it or not, many average conservative voters are just as against corporate influence in government as the lefties).

[redstateblues]

159. I still can't believe Nixon won

Everybody I knew at the time voted for McGovern

[Ed Suspicious]

214. You should talk to Chuck Todd. Bernie seems to be blindsiding him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251622104

[SheilaT]

186. People who attend rallies

don't vote, don'tcha know?

At least that's what the Hillary supporters assure us. Apparently, all those who will turn out to vote for her are currently relaxing at home, getting pedicures and reading novels, while they gather the strength to attend the caucuses and vote in the primaries.

[Kang Colby]

83. Don't worry.

Bernie simply isn't a viable candidate. Once folks realize that and come to terms with it, things will settle down. Hillary at this point is the official candidate for the Democratic Party and she will win the GE. The DNC is 100% behind her. She has no comparable opposition within the Republican party. On 11/8/2016, today's Bernie supporters will be telling us about how as they pulled the lever for HRC their eyes welled with pride as they elected our nation's first female commander-in-chief.

[ChiciB1]

130. YIKES!! n/t

[Gary 50]

169. If Hillary gets the nomination....

I and millions like me will pull the lever with tears in our eyes. They wont be tears of joy. They will be tears of agony at having to choose between the lesser of two evils. Tears of bitterness for having to vote for another pretend liberal who will sell us out repeatedly and eternally just like her husband did. Yes it's true we haven't elected a liberal in ages and it doesn't seem likely that we can do so. But if we don't try, if we continually allow that meme to carry the day we will never have anything but corporate right wing politicians screwing the middle class, passing dreadful social and economic legislation, endless wars, trillions more for the military industrial complex and otherwise continuing the downward spiral of quality of life for the American people. God damn it. We need someone who represents the people not the corporations and the one percent.

[corkhead]

216. Where can I catch your comedy act?

[frylock]

245. Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

[Dustlawyer]

85. Our "bubble" grows everyday. Hillary's is shrinking everyday. It can happen.

Maybe after the Primary, if Bernie proves you wrong, his bubble will include you too!

[in_cog_ni_to]

118. Hey! Welcome to DU!

Happy to have another Bernie supporter here!

[eridani]

322. You didn't notice that red states passed increases in minimum wage at the same time--

--Democrats who actually advocated that policy got slaughtered? 63% of the eligible population did not vote in 2014. Sanders is mobilizing them, and Clinton has little appeal for them.

[oasis]

9. I admire Bernie's valuable contribution to the discussion on income

inequality. There are few who could match his level of commitment on this issue. America needs to get a healthy dose of his message on center stage before his departure.

[merrily]

44. Income inequality is the easy one. Everyone bullshits about that. Bernie talks wealth inequality.

Apart from government employees and raising the minimum wage some, the government can/will do little about income inequality. Hence the rush to harp on that. The government can do a lot about wealth inequality, though. AFAIK, Bernie is the only one raising that one over and over.

[pangaia]

54. What departure?

[virtualobserver]

68. His departure to take up residence in the White House

[jtuck004]

10. Looky here, baby. The slaughter has already started. Just ask tens of millions of working Americans

who pay every day to support the wealthy. Any vote that isn't to change that isn't worth marking, for me.

[frylock]

246. word up

[rateyes]

11. Three words:

Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

This country elected a Democratic Socialist 4 times.

[Orrex]

20. THIS country did no such thing

But the country of more than seven decades ago? Yeah, THAT country elected him four times.

Comparisons to the USA of seven or five decades in the past are pointless unless ambient cpnditions are so similar that the comparison isn't reduced to far-fetched wishful thinlking.

Even comparing 2016 to 2008 is silly, because (among other things) the nation isn't desperate for a change away from the evil, eight-year regime that stole two elections, started two wars and wrecked the economy.

I agree with every word of the OP, and regardless of Sanders' status among his supporters (often suggested to be Messianic, to judge from several popular memes), he will not win the election.

If I'm wrong, and by some miracle of miracles he's elected, you can bet that I will admit my error, and I'll sure as hell vote for him if he's on the ticket.

But if I'm right, and he *doesn't* win the nomination, then his supporters will claim fraud and manipulation and deal-making and party politics and all the rest, because of course they will; they've already decided that he's won Nov 2016. Quite a few have even declared that they'll stay home on election night, a scorched earth policy that Sanders himself rejects.

[rateyes]

23. THIS country has reverted to the economic

policies of Herbert Hoover, and Bernie is preaching the economic policies of FDR. In the words of the late Yogi Berra, "it's Déjà vu all over again!"

[Enthusiast]

112. +1 You nailed it an entire shit load.

[Orrex]

286. FDR also had a supportive Congress. Would Sanders?

Further, corporations have had 70+ years to build structures and buy politicians to prevent some mere President from pushing through any truly transformational policies. There is no benefit to pretending that we're seeing history repeat itself, at least not to an extent that justifies belief in a triumphant fringe candidate, even if his supporters insist he isn't on the fringe.

I would LOVE to be wrong, and if I'm shown in Nov 2016 to have been wrong , then I will happily admit it.

But I don't believe that I'll be proven wrong, alas.

[zeemike]

50. The nation isn't desperate for a change?

Man are you out of touch.

But if Hillary wins and loses the GE who will you blame?...those Sanders supporters no doubt.
But it won't be a rigged election system that is for sure.
And should that happen we will become the underground again and hate the GOP and try to purge the left from the party...when we should have purged the Third Way.

[Orrex]

330. Sanders' supporters want it both ways

Last edited Sun Sep 27, 2015, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

They insist that 2016 is just like 2008 and entirely unlike 2008.

The nation isn't desperate for a change?

Sure, but not the one that you're thinking of. In 2008, voters were desperate for a change away from the Republican Whitehouse regime, which helped to mobilize Obama's supporters. Will 2016 show a similar anti-Whitehouse sentiment that will also benefit Sanders? Is Obama hated by Democratic voters to the same degree that they hated Bush? You're hoping that the hatred (which doesn't exist) will rally Sanders' supporters (which it wouldn't). If anything, that hatred will bring Republican voters out in droves to quash the legacy of Obama's presidency, and if they can keep the socialist out of office through the same hatred, so much the better for them.

But if Hillary wins and loses the GE who will you blame?...those Sanders supporters no doubt.

Well, it depends, doesn't it? If Sanders' supporters irresponsibly stay home on election night and thereby hand the election to the Republican, then yes of course they'll be blamed, and rightly so.

But if Sanders' supporters instead recognize what's at stake with this election, then they'll turn out to vote even if they're not thrilled about it. If Sanders doesn't win the nomination, do you think that he'll pout and refuse to vote? Or do you think he'll accept reality and do the right thing? Perhaps I have more faith in your candidate than you do?

[zeemike]

331. You present it all in terms of political party

And you may find this hard to believe but most Americans don't see things that way.
The change they wanted in 08 is the change they want now...not a change of party but a change in policy that effects them...and they are not satisfied when they got little of it with the Dems just like the GOPers...that showed in the midterm when the Ds lost the election.
Now you want to offer them more of the same or complete bat shit crazy and expect them to accept the former out of fear...again with the triangulation.
And then you want to blame the victim by putting it on them for doing the only thing they can do...abstain. What else do you expect them to do when offered two choices, neither of which solves their problem?

They voted for change in 08 not a Dem (well except for party loyalist who don't give a shit about it as long as the party wins)...and they will vote for change now if the party does not prevent it.

[Orrex]

332. I know that you want to believe that

The entire Sanders belief system depends on it, in fact. We see it in the poorly-supported but oft-repeated claim that Republicans will vote for Sanders because they like his message.

The change they wanted in 08 is the change they want now...not a change of party but a change in policy that effects them...

Nonsense. That's the same meaningless platitude we've been hearing for more than a century. We always want the outsider. We always want the Mr. Smith, but it simply hasn't ever happened on the national stage. You're imagining that Sanders is going to reverse an 11+ decade trend simply by the force of... what exactly?

Even if Sanders miraculously wins the nomination and then even more miraculously wins in Nov16, what do you imagine will happen to change the rest of DC along with him? What, exactly, do you think he'll get done, absent a spectacular Democratic landslide in the House and Senate?

Now you want to offer them more of the same or complete bat shit crazy and expect them to accept the former out of fear...again with the triangulation.

And you want to hand the SCOTUS to the Republicans.

[zeemike]

335. "The entire Sanders belief system"?

Again with the framing...as if it were a cult.
There is no belief system unless you think the desire for real change is a belief system...and perhaps you do. If that is that you think the status quo is inevitable and all powerful which seems to be your argument.

But people have been voting for change for decades and it has eluded us...Carter was an outsider...a peanut farmer from Georgia.
Obama was an outsider that no one ever heard of until he ran and won...and every time the Dems ran an insider they lost. But we are told this time it will be different.

And you want to hand the SCOTUS to the Republicans.

And that assumes that Hillary is a winer and Sanders is a loser...nothing could be further from the truth...for the reason stated above. The opposite is true IMO.

[Orrex]

336. You said it, not me.

Again with the framing...as if it were a cult.

Sorry, but that's your term.

However, it's interesting to note that the very first response by Sanders' supporters was to insist that the establishment is "afraid" of Sanders, as if he were some supernatural or some super-powerful avenging force brought to bear against them.

For that matter, "Feel the Bern" is an exhortation to do... what exactly? Are we meant to fondle your candidate? To partake of his essence, perhaps, that we might all ascend to the nirvana wherein an aging socialist from a teeny-tiny and racially pure constituency far in the liberal northeast can storm the gilded gates of corporate Washington and seize power for the sake of the people?

Further, we've all seen the meme likening Sanders to Christ; if that kind of messianic allusion isn't a statement of devotion, I'd like to know what is.

Hmm... Maybe you're onto something with this "cult" label after all.

But people have been voting for change for decades and it has eluded us...Carter was an outsider...a peanut farmer from Georgia.

A poor example, unless you're arguing that Sanders will be mocked and ineffectual during his single term in office but will thereafter achieve nearly universal praise and admiration. Thanks, but I prefer to vote the presidency rather than the post-presidency.

Obama was an outsider that no one ever heard of until he ran and won...and every time the Dems ran an insider they lost. But we are told this time it will be different.

Seriously? You're beating that drum again? Tell me how similar the Obama presidency is to the Bush presidency, and then we can talk about the extant conditions then and now that make your comparison preposterous to the point of irrelevance.

[zeemike]

338. That was my observation based on your framing.

I never said it was your words.

But then you double down on the framing with the hyperbolic words and phrases like "as if he were some supernatural or some super-powerful avenging force" or "Are we meant to fondle your candidate? To partake of his essence, perhaps, that we might all ascend to the nirvana" and the ever popular "the meme likening Sanders to Christ".
It reminds me of the right wing meme about Obama.

Yes Obama was an outsider who promised us what we wanted to hear...but did little of it...did not close Gitmo, did not give us single payer, continued the Bush tax cuts, appointed Wall Street to cabinet positions, and we are still deeply involved in the middle east and now the Ukraine.
So the comparison with Bush is not about what he did but what he failed to do...He continued the Bush game and it gave outsiders a bad name.

But this time we have one that has a lifetime record to go buy, and that is good evidence that he will at least try to change the game, and that is all we can hope for.

[Orrex]

339. No, that's not all we can hope for.

But then you double down on the framing with the hyperbolic words and phrases like "as if he were some supernatural or some super-powerful avenging force" or "Are we meant to fondle your candidate? To partake of his essence, perhaps, that we might all ascend to the nirvana"

That's comic exaggeration meant to point out the absurdity of the slogans, tactics and memes self-chosen by Sanders' supporters. If you're going to embrace those slogans, then you should be aware of how they come across to someone who's not on board.

and the ever popular "the meme likening Sanders to Christ". It reminds me of the right wing meme about Obama.

Then you should take that up with the people who are spreading the meme, because it unambiguously likens Sanders to Jesus on the grounds that they're both Jewish socialists and former carpenters.

"But it's just a funny, funny joke," claim Sanders' supporters. Sure. A funny, funny joke that likens their chosen candidate to the Son of God. Hilarious.

But this time we have one that has a lifetime record to go buy, and that is good evidence that he will at least try to change the game, and that is all we can hope for.

We can hope for a candidate who can with the general election, even if that candidate isn't our ideal.

A 60% satisfactory president in office is preferable to a 99% intolerable president in office, and a 60% satisfactory president in office is immeasurably preferable to a 100% candidate who didn't win the election.

If Sanders miraculously takes the primary, then I will happily vote for him even as I doubt his overall chances. I believe that he would make a good president even if circumstances prevent him from getting much done while in office, and I believe that he would make good picks for the SCOTUS.

But if he doesn't win the primary, what will you do? Will you, like so many of Sanders' principled supporters, stay home in an effort to give the presidency to the GOP? Or will you accept--as Sanders himself accepts--that Hillary is preferable to any GOP candidate?

Are you so principled in supporting your candidate that you will defy him if he's not running? Would you sacrifice the good for the sake of the perfect?

[zeemike]

342. You are a rea; bucket full of contradictions.

You say your hyperbolic comments were just comic exaggeration and then follow it up by belittling the comic exaggerations of the Bernie is a Jew and socialist like Jesus.
Yours is just "comic exaggeration" but theirs was meant to be taken seriously. When we all know it was not comparing the divine aspects but the racial and political ones.

The rest that follows is based on the assumption that only Hillary can win...and I dispute that theory.

And I don't take loyalty oaths to anyone for any reason, and what I do a year or more from now will be based on what happens in that time...I keep all my options open. And I try never to be motivated by fear.

[eridani]

324. Sanders appeals to the 63%, and Clinton does not

That will be very helpful in the general election.

[olegramps]

75. FDR did some remarkable things, but he is also accedited with saving capitalism from itself.

[Ed Suspicious]

199. And in reality that's what Sanders is seeking to do. He is not nearly as red as some people would

like or as others would have us believe. He's pretty much down the center I think.

[olegramps]

237. I absolutely agree. He isn't about to blowup the entire economic system. He isn't nuts.

He is only pursuing the very same policies as FDR. A fair shake for the working class that deserves a share of the fruit of their labor and not just the scraps that the oligarchs throw from their table.

[Ed Suspicious]

241. Sounds like you and I are on the same page, here.

[INdemo]

12. Obviously you dont believe us when we say

progressive voters will stay home on election day and Republicans will have another cake walk.

Hillary is nothing more than a Republican that has been groomed by the corporate mafia for 20 years to be President.

Do you really believe that Republicans/Tea Baggers are not waiting for Hillary?
The email thing is just a smoke screen

[leftofcool]

48. We do believe you. So, stay home.

[daleanime]

51. So you would be happier with a republican president....

then a President Sanders?

[Ed Suspicious]

200. I think that is exactly what this person is saying.

[daleanime]

312. Does feel like that.....

[Orrex]

337. Would you be happier with a Republican president

Than with President Hillary Clinton?

Because more than a few of Sanders' supporters have asserted their intent to stay home on election night if Sanders isn't on the ticket.

[daleanime]

340. Do you aways answer a question with another question?

To answer yours, no I would prefer Hillary over any of the Republican candidates. But that's like saying if I have to break my leg, I would prefer a simple break rather then a compound fracture. No matter how slight the improvement, I'm always reaching for it.

Here's another question for you, is better then really good enought..

[Orrex]

341. I've stated many times that I will happily vote for Sanders

I'm greatly skeptical of his chances, but I would definitely vote for him.

Here's another question for you, is better then really good enought...

If the choice is between "better than" and "horribly unnacceptable," then it only makes sense to choose "better than."

Of course, it's simply a reframing of the old "lesser of two evils" mindset favored by those who would have us believe that Democrats and Republicans are indistinguishable from each other.

If able, then clearly one will choose the lesser evil; the question is whether that choice is truly evil or is simply unappealing to the person posing the question.

[INdemo]

334. Don't think I will have to wory about that

Hillary is on a faster pace trajectory to lose than in 2008

Google her numbers of Sept 2008 vs Obama

[SmittynMo]

13. Wrong and right

You are way off when you think Bernie can't win. However, with Trump, you are correct. He will never win. And it's simple. Trump stands for nothing.

These two have nothing in common. NOTHING!!!!

Honesty and trust will prevail. Be prepared to accept the political revolution.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. The Socialist tag isn't what it used to be

But you are correct, the GOP will use that mercilessly. It'll scare some voters but those voters are likely GOP voters anyway.

I think the biggest problem Sanders has is math. Like you said, he will win NH and maybe Iowa but then the rest of the states will fall to Clinton. Her money and organization plus her super delegates will win out. I have little doubt about that.

DU is a funny place. It doesn't reflect Democratic Party reality most times. I think that Clinton will definitely be the candidate based on the odds. My hope is that she picks Sanders as her running mate because given the progressive venom toward her, she's going to need Bernie to quiet them.

The primaries can't be over soon enough for me! This place has become ridiculous!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

121. It's hip to want a fire department run by the government not contracted out

It's hip to want public libraries.

[redstateblues]

163. Most Hillary supporters have been driven away from DU

by the ferocious response to their posts from Sanders supporters. Socialism will not be a good platform in the GE.

[Ed Suspicious]

202. Truth has a sort of naturally inherent ferocity. You'll need to excuse us for beating them over the

head with it.

[frylock]

248. Most Hillary supporters slinked away after being called out on their bullshit..

we've all seen the shit show over at http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/forum/. Just look at the crap in this OP. A fantasy land?! How the fuck do you expect people to react to such condescending twaddle?

[SheilaT]

190. It's not credible that Bernie would agree to the VP slot with

Hillary at the top of the ticket. That would require him to acquiesce to her policies, and there's no way he'd do that. No way she'd be willing to have him disagreeing with her at every turn.

If Hillary gets the nomination, just think of the most regressive Democrat out there. He'll be her VP choice.

[stonecutter357]

15. K&R!

[Cartoonist]

16. I know a republican

I've known him for years. I avoid talking politics with him because it's like banging my head on the wall.
The other day he told me he was leaning towards Bernie.
You can change your "NOT" into a TON of support for Bernie. Hillary? Maybe she gets a pound. The entire republican field? Maybe an ounce.
The times, they are a changing.

[Nay]

98. I have one Republican friend and he's voting for Bernie. I can't say that he is

representative of Republicans of VA because he isn't, but there will be some crossover votes for sure. The Republican nominees are, to a person, utterly crazy and unworthy of anyone's vote. It's not as if my friend has anyone in that lineup to vote for.

[Cartoonist]

120. Crossover votes

Some republicans will vote for Bernie. No Democrats will vote for the crazies. Bernie wins! Hillary fear-mongers lose.

[merrily]

176. 25% of Vermont's Republicans vote for Bernie.

[LWolf]

18. He's absolutely drawing massive crowds and enthusiasm in states across the nation. nt

[jopacaco]

19. Not my reality

This Mainer would like to be actually represented by someone in government. My views are not at all represented by people like LePage, Poliquin, and Collins. I finally have a candidate whose views I can respect, a candidate who is not checking the polls before they take a stand, a candidate with principles. Someone needs to fight the fight for the huddled masses or we are doomed.

[wyldwolf]

22. fact. Kasich (or Bush) vs. Clinton (or Biden) would be competitive

Clinton (or Biden) would crush the GOP's wackjobs. Kasich (or Bush) would crush Sanders.

[cantbeserious]

25. A Vote For Hillary In The Primaries Is A Vote For Trump In The General

eom

[wyldwolf]

26. ok.

[oasis]

233. Apt moniker

[Fast Walker 52]

82. Jeesh-- don't you get it by now?

Voters on both sides are freaking sick and tired of the status quo.

Hence the enthusiasm for Trump by the insane right.

The left wants unabashed liberal policies. Hence the enthusiasm for Sanders.

Fuck Bush and Kasich and the GOP, they are all awful and have no real chance of winning.

[Blus4u]

174. ^^^^^What you say here^^^^^

I believe strongly that people are overlooking this fact.
Both sides are sick of the way things are.

Bernie will pull some republicans.
Hillary never will.

Until we have a couple debates to showcase Bernie on the national stage where the msm can't ignore him all these prognostications amount to a lot of hot air.

Peace

[HooptieWagon]

183. That's not what polls say.

They have Sanders performing equal or better than Clinton against all the republicans.

So it appears the only people afraid of a democratic socialist are Hillary supporters.

[cantbeserious]

24. Ever More Bernie Bashing

eom

[handmade34]

27. I can attest

to "the ENTIRE U.S. ain't Vermont" ...that is why I choose to make my home in Vermont

[DianeK]

67. Hello,

sister Vermonter!

[merrily]

92. The entire US ain't NY or Maryland or the state of any candidate for POTUS either.

One meaningless comment after another.

[DFW]

29. There's a first time for everything

One of the great fallacies--on both sides--I see on DU, and the reason I don't get involved much in the primaries discussions (besides the fact that I'm quite undecided at this point), is that we are always capable of showing that the impossible is sometimes possible. Obama once joked in McCain's presence that "whoever gave me my middle name definitely never thought I'd run for president." That one even broke McCain up. Bernie's not a saint sent from on high, and Hillary's not an ogre risen from the depths of Hades.

If precedent is to be believed, then yes, Bernie is unelectable. But if precedent was to be believed, so was a black guy 7 years ago. The big question I see is: could Bernie win the electoral votes of States that never would have elected him to the Senate? If so, then yes, he absolutely could win the presidency if nominated, especially if he was clever with his choice of VP--i.e. someone younger, dynamic, and would put the country at ease knowing that the health of a president in his 70s IS an issue, like it or not.

I tire of the constant tossing about of labels. Sure, "socialist" will freak the Fox crowd, but they're lost anyway. Sanders has NOT EVER advocated a straight socialist agenda, but rather a classic Social Democratic one, and it's not like a president always gets his way anyhow. Just ask Barack Obama. And sure you'll hear "corporatist (whatever the hell it means this week) tossed around, too. My spell-check freaks every time I type it, whereas "socialist" gets a pass. I tune that one out every time I see it.

Let things play out and don't freak at any one post, poll, or Sunday talk show. There's a lot of water yet to flow under this bridge.

[DianeK]

71. The voice of reason

is rare these days..thank you for yours

[DFW]

291. Plenty of people, maybe most, on here would disagree with you

But thanks for your kind words all the same!

[leveymg]

30. They said the same thing about FDR and the New Deal. They called him a Bolshevik.

Didn't work then.

[NCTraveler]

31. Big picture and what they are missing.

They want to make it all about Sanders as it is a personality thing. We will be the ones who get slaughtered. SC Justices. Executive appointment after executive appointment stacking the government with even more conservatives. Republicans completely deciding the issues of the day. My reproductive rights will be slaughtered. Families in Iran will be slaughtered. Advancements in LGBT rights at the Federal level will be slaughtered. Sanders is simply the tool for republicans to advance the slaughter.

[Ed Suspicious]

213. I think you just flipped the script. You are 180 degrees wrong on the personality thing.

We love his track record. We love his positions. We don't really care that much about his personality, though I do find it to be awesome. You put another candidate with the same track record and the same policy positions and I'm supporting that candidate.

[99Forever]

33. Poor scared little man...

... don't be so afraid. We'll protect you from the Pinko Commies.



BOO!






Geebus, are these people for real?

[SmittynMo]

37. I wonder the same thing n/t

[merrily]

93. I won't because I've read too many of his or her OPs.

[99Forever]

100. Desperation fills the air at Camp Weathervane.

The implosion is gaining momentum.

[merrily]

111. If the country hates Sanders so damn much, he won't be the nominee. Non-existent problem solved.

[MoveIt]

140. No they are not real, but they play one on DU!

The best grass roots support Goldman Sachs can afford!

[gregcrawford]

34. You're in for a BIG surprise.

[deutsey]

35. Thanks, Carnac.

[RKP5637]

41. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[merrily]

36. .

[RKP5637]

39. Millions upon millions of people in the US are fed up with it all. I can certainly see your

reasoning, but I think it's difficult at this stage to tell what it going to happen. Whoever is the democratic candidate will get my full support. I like Bernie, he reminds me of some of the old time democrats before some in the democratic party kept edging rightward following the republicans rather than driving a stake in the ground and saying this is who we are, and of course, some did it for $$$$'s. I could be fine with HRC if the nominee, whatever, I want to see a democrat in the WH. The republican party has gone off the deep end for the most part into crazyland.

[global1]

42. Reality Check: “Working families like mine don't give a damn about Bernie being a socialist".......

While the media and commentariat assail Bernie Sander’s character by seizing on abstruse details of him being a 'democratic socialist', there are millions of Americans who don’t give a damn about his political description and who worry about paying their bills and caring for their families. Millions of those Americans love and support Bernie.

Following are three stories from among millions that illustrate how Bernie inspires his supporters.

First, self-described Bernie Man Fergal Murphy, who sent us this moving letter:

Working families like mine don't give a damn about Bernie Sander's political description. We're struggling to get by. My wife lost her job with a non-profit last month when their grant funding dried up. I bust my back 40+ hours a week at a lumber yard. We’re getting by on one paycheck and we have a mortgage to pay and kids to feed. I want to hear about the ISSUES – plans to create good paying jobs with health benefits. Paid leave. Work schedules I can rely upon.

My 14 year old daughter is a great writer - clever - creative - but we have zero $$ saved for her and my son's education.

I have a bright, sweet 12 year old son who was born with developmental delays – he didn’t sit up until he was 13 months old or walk until he was 2. By the time he was 18 months old he was getting help from physical and speech therapists, and he got 3 years of special ed preschool.

There was a time when my sweet son would never have gotten a proper education. Now he’s in 7th grade and making honor roll. He’ll earn his high school diploma, maybe even go to college free some day because Bernie fought to pass laws that required schools to provide free education. Thanks to Bernie, he got the intervention that was so vital to his development. ................

Stories like this one was posted on DU only it was about Hillary. I took out Hillary's name and substituted Bernie's in her place.

You see - what works for Hillary - works for Bernie as well.

People don't care about how candidates are labeled these days by themselves or the media. What people care about are candidates that are genuine and true to their beliefs. Candidates that they can trust to get the job done for them and not for the 1%ers, the corporatists and Wall Street bankers.

Bernie is the modern day FDR and like FDR - Bernie resonates with the People. They believe him. They trust him. And Why?

Because he doesn't change like a chameleon based on focus groups. He doesn't take money from Super Pac's. He stays true to his principles.

[RKP5637]

49. Yep, my thoughts too. As he is seen more by those that might not follow any of this, I think there

well might be a groundswell in favor of him. Millions in this country struggle day to day to survive. The brakes need to be put on disaster capitalism. Over the past few decades the safeguards stopping runaway capitalism were removed. I have nothing against those that have made a reasonable amount of money. Some of my friends are reasonably wealthy, but then there is a huge jump between them and those that are ripping off the country/world for outrageous profits and screwing royally everyone else along the way.

[alphafemale]

43. Hillary supporters said the same think about Obama because wink wink nudge nudge.

It was what put a foul taste in my mouth about her and her supporters that hasn't gone away.

[dorkzilla]

45. This country will NOT elect a black man with a Muslim name! Oh, wait......nt

[whatchamacallit]

46. They won't until they will

Oligarchical rule and wealth inequality are strangling this country. The tipping point may have been reached.

[The Jungle 1]

47. We are socialist

We are socialist and have been all along.
Public schools
Public water and sewer
Cops
Fireman
Parks
SS
Medicare
National defense

What we need to do is force republicans and America to admit what we are.

[Fred Sanders]

58. If one believes that an underfunded Candidate Sanders will not be the subject of a massive mass

media and GOP mass propaganda campaign relentlessly attacking Candidate Sanders - truth will again be irrelevant - and that the general voting public are brave and intelligent souls that can not be easily distracted or made afraid or manipulated rather easily by relentless mass propaganda, then one may genuinely and sincerely believe, even with passion, that Sanders stands a fighting chance.

Ebola, a month before an election, and now Trump, were custom-made by a mass media mass campaign of influence against the facts, and are mere dress rehearsals for how the 2016 election will be bought and sold to the highest media bidder.

You thought Iraq was a huge, and hugely successful, con job by the media, you ain't see nothing yet.

It is good to dream, it is good to have passion, but please get real.

That is all the OP is saying, and there is not a a single bad word in it about Sanders.

Find me one bad word...maybe I missed something.

[DrBulldog]

60. Isn't it fascinating that posts like this pop up . . .

. . . right after national primary polls show (1) Bernie is now tied with Hillary at 42% and (2) Bernie does just as well against Republican opposition as she does? LOL.

[frylock]

249. I think they're trying to assure themselves more than anyone else that Sanders is unelectable..

I can't wait for all the 1000-yard stares after Super Tuesday.

[MichMan]

61. I think it will be a problem as well

Sadly, I think you are right. Bernie is going to be hurt with the so called undecided independent voters who will be put off by the socialist label.

While they may agree with his policy statements, that will still be an issue with them. Had he identified with the Democratic party throughout his political career, that characterization wouldn't hold water. However he is the one that has accepted the label of socialist.

In addition, many of the progressives have been saying for years, the problem with our government is old white men in charge.

[truebluegreen]

78. I am an independent voter

and I have No Problem with the socialist label*. I remember from my school days learning about how we had a mixed economy and that worked best. It was true then and is still true now, but you'd never know it from our political discourse. Our "peoples' party" avoids all talk of public good and good government and empowering workers like the plague their masters believe it to be. I am registered as an independent because the Democratic Party apparatus is WAY too far right for me. Nevertheless, I vote Democratic because I'm not insane.

If Bernie is the Democratic nominee, the Democratic party may become worthy of its name again and I will change my registration.


*especially since it is just a "label"--actual Socialists don't like Bernie.

[asjr]

135. I feel the word "socialist" has no meaning anymore.

Bernie tells it like it is. I like Hillary Clinton also. I will be happy if one becomes president. The Republicans have messed themselves so much they may have trouble cleaning off the crap. But the constipation will not be easy to get rid of. I am waiting for the diarrhea. (hope I spelled that right.)

[saturnsring]

63. correct - then say goodbye to the supreme court for another generation, the aca , the epa, the cfpb

etc.etc. etc,

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

69. This country will never elect...

a woman...

a Catholic...

an Irish American...

an African American...



Keep the deeply felt concerns of yours spinning around.

It's fun to watch.

[ibegurpard]

70. then we are stuck with Clinton

Who excites no one. God help us.

[Gothmog]

72. Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

From Gallop http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Socialism-Viewed-Positively-Americans.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives.



....Socialism

Socialism had the lowest percentage positive rating and the highest negative rating of any term tested. Still, more than a third of Americans say they have a positive image of socialism.

Exactly how Americans define "socialism" or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans' reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them -- an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

There are significant differences in reactions to "socialism" across ideological and partisan groups:

A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives

The Kochs will have great deal to work with if Sanders is the nominee

[ibegurpard]

81. As they will with Hillary

And she won't match them in money either

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

73. If Senator Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee for POTUS will you vote or stay home?

[Gothmog]

74. Little Change in Public’s Response to ‘Capitalism,’ ‘Socialism’

From Pew http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/

The word ‘socialism’ triggers a negative reaction for most Americans, but certainly not for all. Six-in-ten (60%) people say they have a negative reaction to the word, while just 31% have a positive reaction. Those numbers are little changed from April 2010....

By contrast, socialism is a far more divisive word, with wide differences of opinion along racial, generational, socioeconomic and political lines. Fully nine-in-ten conservative Republicans (90%) view socialism negatively, while nearly six-in-ten liberal Democrats (59%) react positively. Low-income Americans are twice as likely as higher-income Americans to offer a positive assessment of socialism (43% among those with incomes under $30,000, 22% among those earning $75,000 or more).

[stevenleser]

150. Yep, and similar numbers in Gallups poll in June. Bernie is a non Starter.

He should have dropped out the moment Gallups poll came out in June.

The only thing he can accomplish in this race is put a Republican in the White House.

[neverforget]

204. Competition sucks, eh Steve?

"He should have dropped out the moment Gallups poll came out in June." Lol!

That's some Chuck Todd level analysis there.

[frylock]

266. Bernie should have dropped out the moment he started gaining momentum..

I suppose that's what passes for insightful analysis over at Fox.

[RichVRichV]

212. This country has spent the last 50 years demonizing socialism and propping capitalism.

The fact there is only 20% between them with virtually everyone in power pushing one for generations and virtually no one advocating the other is much more telling than anything else.

Socialism finally has a powerful advocate and people are responding. I understand why that could be scary to some.

[Gothmog]

218. If the Kochs spend $300 million on attack ads using the term socialist the term will be radioactive

[frylock]

267. If the Kochs spend 300 million on attack ads using the term Benghazi the Hillary will be radioactive

[Gothmog]

289. Howdy Gowdy has been trying this for months and it has not worked

[frylock]

290. Hillary's favorability and trustworthiness numbers belie that claim.

[RichVRichV]

344. If the Kochs spen! $300 million on attack ads against socialism it will be a drop in the bucket

of the ads villifying socialism over the past 50 years. People have become desensitized to the stigma of "evil socialism".

There are two groups of people, those that will buy the ads and never listen to the candidate for themselves and those that will listen to the candidates own words.

The first group was never going to vote for Bernie, or Hillary, or any other Dem nominee anyways.

The other group is going to wonder how an "evil commie socialist" managed to get nominated to a major party and will watch out of curiosity at the very least. Then when they see Bernie saying a bunch of stuff that they agree with they're going to realize just how much bull those ads really are.

The simple fact is there is nothing Bernie says that the majority of Americans aren't in agreement with. No amount of smearing is going to change that fact.

The one and only problem Bernie has is enough people haven't heard him speak yet. That problem goes away once he's one of the two major nominees.

[dembotoz]

76. you folks just do not realize what a red meat buzz word socialist is..ya just don't get it

fear another mc govern moment.....
live in a red area and the word socialist brings out a visceral reaction much like the word communist does.
rational? no
but damn it is is there in bright red colors
lets create the gop campaign for them....

why i lean towards martin O

no hillary baggage
no bernie buzzwords

[Happyhippychick]

80. I agree. I think it's Clinton and Bush.

i wish Hillary and Bernie could be co-presidents but it can't be. Hillary will win.

[McKim]

86. The Author is Out of Touch

Your reality is from inside the HRC Washington Consensus Bubble. Our reality is out there with the 99% of the people in this country who are truly fed up paying for foreign wars while our people go hungry and while millions don't earn enough to have viable and functional families. You just don't get it about how very angry people are and what they are willing to do to get control of that tax money for the benefit OF US ALL.

[Joe Turner]

90. That Dog won't Hunt

Bernie's message resonates with most folks because it is the unvarnished truth. People have seen their jobs sent overseas, their pay slashed, cities crumble, corporations and CEOs getting anything they want. Your amateur psyops won't work this time around.
People have had it with the status-quo which is killing this country. The more Bernie's message gets out the more support he draws. And it helps that Bernie Sanders can go directly to the media and clearly explain his positions and debate them unlike the Hiding Hillary. Lot's a luck with the baggage that one is carrying around.

[merrily]

114. 142 posts in 5 years--and THAt was one of them? smh

[MoveIt]

147. Operation

Last edited Sat Sep 26, 2015, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Active Support - as in activate all supporters

[merrily]

164. I would never insinuate anything so tawdry. However, what moves an infrequent poster--in this case

glacially infrequent--to post and what they choose to post interests me.

[MoveIt]

166. Whereas I think of the technical systems that persist that cookie for years at a time

Last edited Sat Sep 26, 2015, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)

occam's razor and all that.

I don't wan't to ascribe much actual sentience to a bit of disk space that's persisting a login cookie across years of inactivity... more specifically if people only post right wing stuff every now and then it makes one very suspicious.

[merrily]

173. Tsk tsk.

[Kang Colby]

188. Hypocritical

The Bernie supporters generally try to align Hillary with corporate interests or some other form of nonsense on an ongoing basis. Yet, when someone points out Bernie's 18 trillion dollar bankrupt America plan, Bernie's fringe goes on the attack. Why is that?

[MoveIt]

189. Right wing meme poster says what?

Get your fucking right wing meme generator crap out of here.

Your bullshit wall-street journal claims have been debunked but you are probably too fair and balanced to notice.

[Kang Colby]

191. Be quiet.

Like Bernie was taught to do by BLM. They realized how out of touch he is and shutdown the noise he was planning to make that day.

One of my favorite images from the event.

[MoveIt]

195. take your command to me to be quiet

and shove off. Nice move to appropriate BLM activists in your noble fight against commies!

hypocritical in the extreme, now back to another 2-3 years of inactivity with you, right-wing meme-poster.

[Comrade Grumpy]

230. Ooh, what a hateful sentiment. Please go away.

[frylock]

274. They see me trollin'. They be hatin'.

[demwing]

250. Q: "Why is that?" A: Because it's a bullshit lie

Debunked by the same economics professor that the WSJ misrepresented in the hit piece that you alluded to.

An Open Letter to the Wall Street Journal on Its Bernie Sanders Hit Piece
Posted: 09/15/2015 8:03 pm EDT Updated: 09/16/2015 7:59 am EDT

Gerald Friedman's research was cited in a Wall Street Journal story about Bernie Sanders's proposals for government spending. Friedman responds to that story below.

It is said of economists that they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. In the case of the article "Price Tag of Bernie Sanders's Proposals: $18 Trillion," this accusation is a better fit for the Wall Street Journal that published it.

The Journal correctly puts the additional federal spending for health care under HR 676 (a single payer health plan) at $15 trillion over ten years. It neglects to add, however, that by spending these vast sums, we would, as a country, save nearly $5 trillion over ten years in reduced administrative waste, lower pharmaceutical and device prices, and by lowering the rate of medical inflation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-friedman/the-wall-street-journal-k_b_8143062.html

How do you expect people to respond when you spit on truth?

[Comrade Grumpy]

228. Are you sure you're on the right website? Right-wing memes generally don't fly here.

[cherokeeprogressive]

94. Yada yada yada yawn...

One ad about Bernie's political past vs eleventy hundred ads running 24/7 about Clinton bullshit.

Oh and fuck Nate Silver.

[PowerToThePeople]

96. Another day, another post by Joe McCarthy's ghost.

[elehhhhna]

97. Oooh! Extra credit for violent imagery in the title.

[merrily]

103. I know, right? Crush, slaugher, etc. LOL!

[elehhhhna]

105. Corporate lingo.

[fredamae]

104. From Every Person who Predicts

With unquestionable certitude, that Sanders cannot win...
Could you Please. please post the Winning lottery numbers for all lotteries for the next 30 days? And could you Please tell me how much rain I'll get this winter so I can plan my garden next year-we are in a drought-I need to know.
Thanks in advance.

[portlander23]

106. Just saying is all

[jalan48]

109. Absolutely! And I'm sure that's why Debbie Downer is limiting the number of debates.

[Stellar]

113. I'm not afraid of the word 'socialist'. nt

[merrily]

115. Not many are, or Obama would not have been re-elected.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

116. In fact the opposite

Bernie is appealing to voters across the political spectrum. I think you underestimate what is happening.

[Fuddnik]

117. All I can say is, enjoy President Ted Cruz.

There are too many people who are tired of being presented a choice between the lesser of two evils, who will stay home. And nothing will mobilize the right wing to show up and vote against a Hillary Clinton.

If she is the nominee, you're fucked. Pure and simple.

[Enthusiast]

119. Unrecommended for its departure from reality.

[raindaddy]

122. Then that leaves us having to vote moderate Republican...

Sorry, I'll take my chances with the candidate that actually reflects the ideals of the Democratic party before the neoliberals took over.

[McKim]

125. The Author is Out of Touch

Get real. 99% of the people in this country are fed up. People don't earn enough to have viable intact healthy families. Things are falling apart for most people. People are tired of funding expensive foreign wars while our people go hungry. People want control of that tax money so it can be used FOR OUR BENEFIT. You just don't get it. Hilary dresses like she is going to a high society ladies tea.
Those colorful silk suits, big jewelry and fancy hairdos only cut it inside the beltway. Her visual message to the masses is that the queen will throw you some crumbs while the bulk of our resources go for war.

[retrowire]

129. everyone!

just click the number above the rec button to see who those (always around 20 or so users that rec anti Bernie threads) users that openly encourage this blind pessimism and then use that knowledge as power.

[Rose Siding]

177. I'm on the list!

Are you more powerful now?

[retrowire]

180. lol what?

there's some mental gymnastics!

no I'm not, we are equal citizens so fear not.

you just have a more pessimistic view is all.

[Ed Suspicious]

132. Let me get this straight. They won't vote for a democratic socialist who loves America, but

they'll vote their fucking hearts out for a Republican fascist who hates it?

I'm done with this idiocy.

[99Forever]

133. 1955 called...

... they want their Red Scare back.

[stevenleser]

136. The sad Irony of this OP is that it will be lost on those who need to take it in the most

The nomination of Bernie Sanders would be like handing 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to the GOP on a silver platter and asking them if they want fries with that.

We couldn't gift wrap the Presidency to them any more effectively than to nominate Sanders.

[retrowire]

148. how old are you? n/t

[stevenleser]

152. Old enough to understand Gallup and Pew polls and realize what they mean.

Old enough not to confuse fantasy with empirical analysis.

[retrowire]

165. that it explains it then.

carry on then. i won't contest your notion that polls and data cooked up by people in offices is much more realistic than real numbers in crowds, real enthusiasm, real donations from the people and so forth.

I'm pretty certain that neither of our numbers are "fantasy" but certainly one set of numbers is more physical than the other.

[Armstead]

172. Empirical Analysis?

Oh please. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, your interpretation of data and observation.....But don't claim you have a lock on "reality" because you have some superior insight based on your unsurpassed ability to see everything though logic and objective empirical analysis.

[INdemo]

161. You dont know that

If Bernie Sanders or his campaign thought that he would quit the campaign right now.
Bernie Sanders can win. If you want to vote for a Wall St,Corporate sponsored Republican Lite go for it and you will see that when the GOP uses every negative issue they have on Hillary she will lose. So if Hillary wins the nomination it doesn't mean she will need to measure the drapes at the White House right away....

Bernie can win and after 1 Caucus and 2 Primary wins under his belt come back and repeat your theory.

[Armstead]

168. Except maybe to nominate Clinton

[stevenleser]

170. Nope, Clinton is polling ahead of the GOP candidates despite everything they have

Thrown at her.

[Armstead]

175. The GOP at the moment are a bunch of sorry mufo's

But if they pull their act together, and nominate a respectable and appealing corporate candidate who seems moderate, Hillary's clock could be easily cleaned in the GE, just from the "desire for change" factor combined with her baggage.

[stevenleser]

276. Hillary has a strong chance. Sanders has no chance. And we know that for sure

By the Pew and Gallup polls that show what Americans think of Socialism.

If Sanders cared about this country at all and didn't want to hand the White House over to the GOP on a silver platter, the right thing for him to do would have been to drop out back in June after the Gallup poll came out.

[Armstead]

311. Maybe the GOP shoould just pack it in too,and hand the crown to Clinton

[Armstead]

313. And.....

If as a socialist he has no chance and is doomed to fail, then what the hell difference does it make whether he dropped out in June? Why not just him have his "little Socialist campaign." It wouldn't have any effect on the Invincible Mega Clinton.

[Scuba]

138. I miss the unrec button.

[bernmobile2016]

139. I am a registered Libertarian..A CONSERVATIVE

DO you know I am supporting (financially) and voting for Bernie Sanders. Your argument/point is debunked by people like me. I will not support Hillary as she is shady and refuses to be up front.. thus trustworthiness. And secondly..who in the hell do you think the people will vote for? A: A socialist who preaches on actual issues (mainly financial) that affect 90% of the American people or B: A candidate who spews intolerance, hatred, racism ALONG WITH HIS PARTY. The GOP themselves everyday are shooting themselves in the foot they will make Bernie's run so damn easy.. to hell with their idiotic ads. And they have no message.... everyone who knows Bernie knows what his message is. Its why McCain, Gore, Romney, and Kerry lost... they didn't have a true message on ANY ONE ISSUE that resonated with the majority of people... much less a consistent message where people were like.. "What the hell is your plan?"

[stevenleser]

144. Your anonymous one-off debunks nothing, certainly not a properly conducted national poll

50% of this country will not vote for a Socialist, per Gallups poll performed in June of this year.

A Sanders nomination would hand the Presidency to the GOP on a silver platter.

[bernmobile2016]

171. Such a shame

wow...you really have no clue do you?

[SheilaT]

193. So a Gallup Poll nearly a year and a half before the general election

Last edited Sat Sep 26, 2015, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

is the definitive assessment of how the general election will go?

I'm guessing you're very familiar with the Isaac Asimov story "Franchise".

[stevenleser]

279. Yes, it is definitive in terms of how a Socialist like Sanders would fare

This isn't a favorable/unfavorable poll, and by the way an unfavorable rating would be difficult to overcome but not impossible, this is worse than that. Much worse.

The folks who vote negative on these polls are expressing deeply held beliefs, many of them bigoted, but final in the short term. And 50% saying they would not vote for someone in a category is beyond fatal to that persons chances, it's a complete slam dunk. Even 40% indicating that would make things extremely difficult.

[SheilaT]

287. You do recall that at this point in the 2008 race,

it was obvious to the most casual observer, and pollster, that Barack Obama couldn't possibly win. The general thinking was, Nice kid, great speech at that last convention, but he's brand new to Congress, still quite young, his time will come in four or eight years.

Remember?

Nothing is set in stone this far out.

A few other remembrances of elections past:

In early 2002 it was conventional wisdom that of course Al Gore would run again in '04, only this time he wouldn't have the election stolen from him!

In early 2005 it was commonly assumed that of course John Kerry would run again, and claim his rightful place as President.

Going back a bit further, in 1990, right after the Gulf War, it was so incredibly obvious that President Bush would be re-elected, and probably by a landslide, that no thinking Democrat would even consider running against him.

You might want to mull over those three for a bit and reconsider your claims.

Not to mention, Obama has had the "socialist" epithet thrown at him from the beginning, and somehow he got elected. Twice, if memory serves correctly.

[Pharaoh]

141. FDR was a socialist!

So get a grip man!

Do you want change or more of the same old shit?

Vote for shit and shit is what you'll get.

[Joe Turner]

229. That's exactly right

and most democrats still identify themselves as Socialists to one degree or another. Liberal-minded folks that support government programs to help the poor, improve education, health care and other social/government programs to make our society a better place are socialists whether they know it or not. It's sad how so many democrats have let the republican smear machine make them run away from their very core beliefs. It's way past high time to make the republicans run away from the label "conservative" by associating the word with all the ills of this country.

[MoveIt]

142. Pinkos to the Left of me!

Out to steal your precious bodily fluids!111

[Lil Missy]

143. You can't have a rational discussion here. Just wait until Super Tuesday -

this will be a very interesting place to be. Indeed.

[frylock]

277. Gonna be a lot of 1000-yard stares over in Camp Clinton after Super Tuesday.

[Lil Missy]

298. bookmarked

[Ed Suspicious]

145. You facilitate the rightward push in this country when you legitimize this hogwash.

It is a miscalculation of epic proportions to believe that throwing your hands up and saying we are powerless to fight it the right wing tug of war except through acquiescence to right wing ideals and right wing inevitability. There is a wave in this country that NEEDS to be taken advantage of if you hope to ever balance the scales again. Swell the wave people! Tsunami this motherfucker into the change we CAN believe in.

[antigop]

146. add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt

[MohRokTah]

153. Read my sig. eom

[Ed Suspicious]

217. Me too.

[HooptieWagon]

162. 'Experts' said the same about the black dude.

But your 'concern' is noted.

[redstateblues]

167. Socialism will be great GE platform!

not so much

[Armstead]

222. Status Quo Corporatism is a winning platform?

[Sunlei]

178. wish he would of created a public owned 'something' so Americans can see some socialism in action

OR, win or lose wouldn't it be nice if ALL Americans, every man, woman and child got a yearly check for 2k like the people of Alaska enjoy?

[Persondem]

179. Exactly. Well said. Bernie is great but the USA is not ready for him.

In addition to being a socialist he was a conscientious objector and he wants single payer (which is great) and the trillions in taxes to pay for it.

So the RW ads would be something like "Draft dodging socialist wants to add trillions to YOUR taxes. Call 555-555-5555 and tell him 'No way!'"

[Armstead]

221. It could well be ready...And the GOP phones will be active no matter who the candidate is

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

194. I hope we get to put your theory to the test in November 2016.

However. any of us remain unconvinced of the validity of your theory.

[valerief]

197. Whew, good thing Sanders is a democratic socialist. nt

[Gman]

201. As a Hillary supporter I disagree

There are no rules now.

[Motown_Johnny]

205. Then explain FDR. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

206. This country will absolutely NOT elect a black man. Obama would be slaughtered.

[Scootaloo]

207. As I explained to someone else...

There is no weird and arcane system whereby adding a socialist to the democratic ticket suddenly invents a Republican win. Sanders on the ticket will not spawn Republican voters like water splashing a gremlin. Running Sanders won't make Republican votes count double.

It's demographics. Democratic voters outnumber Republican voters. If sanders wins the nomination, we can presume democrats are on board with him. Generally the big problem the Democratic party has with winning, is when the Left stays home or protest-votes; it doesn't appear this will be a significant problem with Bernie on the ticket. We've already written off the republicans; we know where they're going. So that leaves the vaunted "independent" vote. Self-declared independents trend liberal, and I don't think Sanders' years as an independent and promises to try to shake up the system are going to bring him any significant negatives with that demographic.

Sanders isn't going to bring anything out of the GOP that Clinton wouldn't - haters gonna hate, as the saying goes. Neither of them are going to give the Republicans more voters. We're going to win, so long as we vote. That's what it comes down to, RBInMaine. We could nominate a ham sandwich with Cynthia McCKinney as VP, and we'd still beat the republicans with 5% to spare.

In fact, if sanders does give us something new out of the Republicans... It'll be whatever leftover moderate republicans are looking for a lifeboat, jumping party for him. I'm not gonna bank on that, but it's certainly in the realm of possibility. Clinton isn't going to pull that off under any circumstance.

[restorefreedom]

208. thank you for today's

"bernie is great but he can't possibly win" thread.

people who don't vote their conscience out of fear are not as free as they think they are

[Angry Dragon]

210. Jesus Christ = jewish socialist = Bernie Sanders

[mikehiggins]

211. slaughtered by who?

Figure Romney for a comeback? Maybe another Bush is what this nation is lusting after? How about Trump, or another McCain run? Walker has taken a walk, thank you Jesus, Cruz is an idiot, the doctor has already written off all the Moslems in the US, and all of them think its just fine if your ten year old daughter gets raped by her minister, gets pregnant and is forced to carry the baby to term.

And the MSM has to put Sanders on the air. Game is over, dude.

Sure, most likely HRC will get the nomination--she mostly OWNS the DEM/Third Way part--but what does she have to put up against the GOPukes? Same with Biden and Kerry and all the rest.

There is a REASON Sanders has a chance and it is that he offers something the US voter hadn't seen in a long time. He knows what he's talking about and he's not afraid to talk about it to everyone.

I've been around 70 years and the only person I recall who had Sander's kind of appeal was HST and most of what we think about him is vague hype, not reality. There's nothing vague about Bernie.

[Cheese Sandwich]

215. The liberals are blocking the socialists and blaming it on the conservatives

Hillary Clinton in the strongest politician in America.

If he can beat The Clinton Machine he can beat the GOP.

[Zorra]

219. The paralyzing fear Timidcrats experience, fear of standing up for democratic

Democratic principles, is why republicans have large majorities in the House and Senate.

Timidcrats really need to woman up and help us help Bernie do what needs to be done in order to provide a future for our kids, instead cowering in a corner like wimps, tewwified that the big bad bully wepubwicans will not like us if we tell them they are full of bullshit and we're not going to fucking take it anymore.

[frylock]

285. If Sanders beats Clinton's money, he beats Koch money.

full stop.

[liberal_at_heart]

224. trashing.

[AgingAmerican]

225. Fear mongering

When issues won't work. Thanks for the linkless OP.

Sanders isn't a Socialist, BTW. He is a Democratic Socialist.

[Waiting For Everyman]

226. Just like it wouldn't elect a black man, too.

To a whole lot of people in the general electorate, HRC is just as unelectable as a socialist. So the point is?

[mhatrw]

227. Why not? Because you say so?

People are sick to death of politics as usual. Sanders' message resonates with the politically disaffected and the politically disaffected outnumber those who support establishment politics.

[fredamae]

232. Something to add to the conversation

http://polling.reuters.com/#!response/TR131/type/smallest/filters/PARTY_ID_:1,DQSTATE:38/dates/20150823-20150922/collapsed/false

[silenttigersong]

238. Red Baiting

He is a self described Democratic Socialist,also a self described Progressive.Where as Hillary is a self described centrist moderate.A Neo Liberal that is in favor of Socialism for the Wealthy.Where as Sen. Sanders advocates for the people.Bottom up economics rather then trickle down.Neo Liberalism maintains an Oligarchy.

[frylock]

243. Well this isn't in the least bit condescending at all.

Here's a novel concept; why don't you start electing Democrats in your own damn state before lecturing folks on who is and who isn't electable? Forgive me if I don't trust your judgment on this matter.

[cantbeserious]

251. Ever More Bernie Bashing

eom

[840high]

260. I can assure you they are worried.

[cantbeserious]

262. And Worried They Should Be - The Establishment Needs To Go Down

It is killing many of us daily.

[gwheezie]

257. It's going to be a hard fight for the wh

I think it's pretty likely whoever we nominate will lose in 16.
As far as pointing to Obama as proof a socialist can be president because we elected a black man, well he's not the 1st black man to run for president. Also as far as Hillary, she's not the 1st woman who is running for president. My 1st political hero was Shirley Chisolm.
Here's my opinion only. Bernie ain't seen nothing yet, the idea if he can beat HRC he can beat the GOP is naive. HRC is going to have even more crap piled on her and I am betting some fringe group is going to try to bring legal charges against her just for the hell if it and OMalley I just don't see any passion building for him. Every dubious claim against Bernie will be dragged out by the right. Going back decades. They are going to find his name on a list or a picture of him with a Marxist.
I support HRC but seriously I have my doubts she can win in 16 and I think she has the best chance.

[AtomicKitten]

264. And we can't elect a black man either.

keep trying

Candidate Clinton to Richardson: 'Barack Obama Can't Win'

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos Reports: Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and former President Bill Clinton are making very direct arguments to Democratic superdelegates, starkly insisting Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., cannot win a general election against presumptive Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Sources with direct knowledge of the conversation between Sen. Clinton and Governer Bill Richardson, D-N.M., prior to the Governor's endorsement of Obama say she told him flatly, "He cannot win, Bill. He cannot win."

Richardson, who served in President Clinton's cabinet, disagreed.

At a rally in Oregon, standing next to Obama, Richardson insisted, "My great affection and admiration for Hillary Clinton and President Bill Clinton will never waver," but he added, "It is time, however, for Democrats to stop fighting among ourselves and to prepare for the tough fight we will face against John McCain in the fall."

link: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/candidate-clint.html

[Agnosticsherbet]

271. Actually, I think he has a shot at the nomination.

I am not betting on the general.

[JackInGreen]

278. Like Max said

"That's bait".
Keep it in the cooler m80.

[cheapdate]

280. Anyone notice that the OP's author hasn't bothered to defend his argument at all?

[doc03]

281. I agree n/t

[AppalachianAmerican]

282. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

We're going to take this one.

The old guard will just have to deal with it.

[peacebird]

292. Your fears are duly noted. I will vote for Bernie anyway because I believe your analysis is wrong

And because Bernie is the right person for the job. He will work for the people, not the corporate CEOs and Wall$treet

[Warren DeMontague]

293. He "wont be the nominee"? Then what are you worried about?

Anyway, it's always a good idea to vote for the candidate who "will be stronger in the general", just like we did in 2004.

And always a terrible idea to vote for the candidate who in "unelectable", like the time in 2008 when we nominated that one term African American senator with the funny name, that Hillary's omniscient experts assured us had no chance in hell against John McCain.

Remember that--- What the fuck were we thinking?

[RBInMaine]

295. Because I make a statement and voice an opinion I'm "worried." Good grief, get real.

[Warren DeMontague]

299. some people seem to spend an awful lot of time in GD-P trying to convince Sanders supporters that

they're wasting their time.

If they really thought their candidate was half as inevitable as they claim, they would be sipping mai tais on the beach or something.

[SusanCalvin]

301. There's a new reality a comin', podnuh. nt

[Dems2002]

305. Bernie is an old white male...

Bernie can win. He has a better chance of winning than Hillary. The electorate will be excited, and an enthusiastic electorate is essential for Democrats.

Also, Bernie is an old white guy. He isn't black or a woman. His age actually works in his favor because no one is going to be "afraid" of him. Us white people have a family member just like him. Great uncle Bob or Bill or John. He's our dad, uncle and grandfather. And he isn't pretentious.

Don't underestimate him. My 86-year-old republican uncle will probably caucus for him in Nevada. In fact, I'm hoping to record him when I go home for thanksgiving and share the video.

He's a hunter, drives a truck, and calls his friends buddy. He is basically a former Reagan dem who left the Democratic Party sometime in the 70s.

These are the guys that Bernie appeals to.

You think my uncle would vote for a Clinton? Hell no! But like he says, Bernie just talks common sense.

And yes, Bernie is a democratic socialist. He is also an iconoclast because he refused to be a Democrat. He is a real independent. And the people who are fed the fuck up with the system and the rich controlling everything will get this. I promise. The people aren't stupid. We just haven't given them anything to vote for.

[Bonobo]

310. 100 points for using the word "slaughter" wrt a Jew whose relatives WERE slaughtered!

Bravo.

[Aerows]

316. The people who say doing something is "impossible"

should get out of the way of the people that are doing it.

[OnlyBernieBurnsBush]

319. Hey DINO

[highprincipleswork]

320. I'm glad I don't have your sense of "reality"

Man, I'm so glad I don't have the sense of "reality" that I hear presented here over and over.

No more real than philosophies like "government is bad. we need to make government as small as possible" "no new taxes of any kind" or "it's a global economy, we have to outsource jobs overseas".

How many years of false philosophies from folks like Ronald Raygun and Grover Norquist do we have to suffer through before people believe in reality again?

To me, Bernie Sanders is doing an excellent job of piercing through the veil of all the bullshit we are fed all the time, including from our own Democratic Party in the guise of all the "new" Democrats. I mean, with Democrats like these, who needs Democrats?

He is piercing through the veil, and resonating with people who know what he is saying is true. And believe you me, they care a lot more about that than about some names that someone calls him.

So, go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I know enough about human nature to know you can't "force" someone to believe something else. And it's really kind of rude and not humble at all.

But take a look around. Why not support someone who really says and does the things you believe in? Why not back someone like Bernie, and let him take the ball all the way that he can, especially when he is generating such excitement in many quarters?

(You know, it's not as if Hillary Clinton, should she be nominated, comes into this with all positives that she is going to win and no baggage either. You'd have to agree with me there, wouldn't you?)

Anyway, I've been waiting for a politician who believes in high principles and stands up for them for a long time. I've long thought that would be a winning combination with the American people, in a nation whose founding fathers also had a long suit of high principles. In my life, I see that "high principles work", and that's where I'm putting my time, my energy, my faith, my money, my whatever I have. And I know the rests will be good, whatever the apparent outcome may be.

And I'm sure that he can win!!!!!!

[AgingAmerican]

321. Not buying it

nt

[John Poet]

333. Yeah, we know. And they won't elect an African-American,

or a Catholic, or another liberal, either....