To all my friends supporting Sander’s on D.U,

[busterbrown]

You certainly have valid points concerning Hillary’s voting record....but do yourselves a favor and stop the with the unsecured email bullshit ( mixing potentially important govt. business with personal emails)..It’s way below the line and sounds like the same right wing bullshit we’ve heard for close to 25 yrs..It’s unprincipled crap!!

[MohRokTah]

1. IBTE

In before the excoriation.

[SusanCalvin]

28. New DU meme!

[darkangel218]

2. Fail!!

What about what HC supporters say about us?? Or the lies about Bernie?? Is that still "unprincipled crap"???

[busterbrown]

3. Yes!!! n/t

[hifiguy]

4. I've paid little attention to it, suspect it's a real but minor issue,

and never mention it in critiques of her. And Benghazi is nothing but RWNJ bullshit.

There are real issues and I stick to them. I hope my fellow Bernie supporters will do likewise.

[busterbrown]

7. You bet...

And I let it be known... I feel the “bern”

[Major Hogwash]

29. Well, you should.

Because there are numerous allegations being made by very serious people that she used her position as SOS to help secure donations to the CGI from leaders of foreign governments and foreign corporations, ones that are financially propped up by the foreign governments since those corporations are located within their foreign countries, which puts them beyond the bounds of the laws of the United States and thereby wound up benefitting both Hillary and Bill.

There was an article written about the takeover of the entire Democratic party posted here at the DU a few days ago.
It was not a "hit" piece, per se, but it looks like everything is going as planned.
And yet, it should wake up people who were under the illusion that their Democratic representatives were actually representing them while they are in Congress instead of them just reaching deeper in to the ginormous grab bag that is CGI and getting more swag for themselves.

One thing I am sure of . . Bernie had nothing to do with the Benghazi email scandal.

[hifiguy]

46. That is a separate, and deadly serious issue.

Massive arms sales to governments that donated to the Clinton foundation reek of corruption.

[Ed Suspicious]

52. Same here. Side-show distraction for the most part. A mistake, or a misjudgement? Maybe.

It is so far down the list of issues that I have with Mrs. Clinton's run for the presidency that it doesn't really cross my mind to bring it up.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Any port in a storm. nt

[Bonobo]

6. Is it fair to say it represents poor judgment?

To me, and I think to many people, we cannot understand why anyone would not be "professional" enough to recognize that mixing your business and personal mails is extremely sloppy, unprofessional and shows poor judgment.

Forgetting about the Benghazi-esque claims that it is against national security.... isn't it just pretty unprofessional?

I certainly think so.

I would expect a 20 year old working in a mail room to know not to do that.

[busterbrown]

10. Give me a break...So Clinton’s not a professional.?.

Her staff is responsible for not advising her correctly.. She was the Sec.Of State for Christ Sake’s and did a terrific job.. I’m proud of her. Her Travel Schedule alone was brutal enough..”Pretty Unprofessional” Come on!!

[Bonobo]

14. My opinion is that it is unprofessional. Does that surprise you?

Is it shocking to hear me say that sending work emails and personal emails from the same account is unprofessional?

And considering the IMPORTANCE of her job?

Really!?

[busterbrown]

18. IMO... Pure unnecessary crud...

Way below the line of common sense..

[Bonobo]

19. The... "line of common sense"?

What does that mean?

Anyone with experience in a professional environment certainly has been told not to mix business with personal.

It's not rocket science and if we are not weighing a person's character and fitness to conduct the serious business of being president, than wtf are we doing here?

It is not below the belt and it certainly is not below "common sense" whatever that means.

It IS common sense to separate business and personal. Very common.

[Paka]

36. I'm not very internet savvy,

but I keep two email accounts just so I can keep different personal stuff separate. How much trouble is it? And at the level of SOS it is highly unprofessional to mix things up.

[frylock]

71. Clinton's hand-picked staff is responsible for not advising her correctly.

[LWolf]

8. fyi

I have yet to comment on the email controversy.

But thanks.

[busterbrown]

12. Did I say you did?

I’m not taking a stance here on the candidates.. Im just concerned about the division developing in our party..

[LWolf]

24. You said,

"to all my friends supporting Sanders..."

I'm supporting Sanders. So, either I'm not your "friend," or you are telling me to stop with the email "bullshit," which I have not engaged in.

Which?

[busterbrown]

44. Just trying to identify myself as a fellow Progressive ..

But so many try to score points..with cleverness..

[LWolf]

58. If I didn't make myself clear:

I object to your characterization of Sanders' followers. You're applying a broad brush that doesn't fit.

That's not me trying to "score points." That's you mischaracterizing a group of people.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I don't really care much about the email thing.

It seems to have been rather poorly handled, but in the larger scheme of things it isn't all that important, except to the extent the GOPers will overhype it. But then, if they didn't have any real issues they'd just make up some bullshit. I care a lot more about her actual policies and voting record, and will focus on those matters, not some overblown non-scandal.

[busterbrown]

11. She certainly fucked up voting for the War..

I think it might have been the strong N.Y. Support Israel thing... Not excusable but...nevertheless .

[Bonobo]

20. "the strong N.Y. Support Israel thing"

Yeah, I TOTALLY know what you mean to say!

Wink, wink!

[busterbrown]

21. What the Jewish Vote.?

Hey I’m one of the Tribe.. Wink Wink..

[Bonobo]

23. Oh, well then it's okay I guess. Wink, wink

L'shana Tova and all that but it sure sounded like putting a bit of the blame for the Iraq war on NY Jews.

Not too sure about that.

[busterbrown]

30. AIPAC....Wink Wink n/t

[Bonobo]

33. Oh, AIPAC is made up of NY Jews! Therefore, Iraq War. Check!

Message received fellow Tribe Member!

[busterbrown]

41. Keep winking... It’s amusing...Loving it..

No.. You are misunderstanding my leads.. 911 try that one..Check APAIC’s involvement...Interesting...

Some help..http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/the-iraq-war-coverup-what-did-aipac-do-and-when-did-it-do-it

[Bonobo]

47. Yes, well, Mondoweiss, but still. Don't blame Hillary's vote on anyone but Hillary. nt

[busterbrown]

48. Purely Political...A real fuck up!

She apologized, but it should never have happened..

[Bonobo]

49. More of a "whoops" than a real apology. But yeah. nt

[aidbo]

45. Obligatory.

[morningfog]

13. Yet an employee is invoking his 5th A right against self incrimination.

The IT guy believes he is exposed to criminal liability. Where there is smoke there is fire.

[busterbrown]

16. And this is what I mean!!

This is what right wing bullshit does... “IT Guy” facing possible criminal liability?” Explain please..

[Aerows]

38. Weeelllll

Yes, you can be held liable if you do not adequately journal communications subject to the Information Retention Act.

You have to be directly in charge of the oversight and enactment of journal practices, and that is one of the reasons why IT folks are regularly put under bond.

http://www.nasbp.org/advocate/industryrelations/surveysdata/itsurvey2

It's a rather healthy business.

[morningfog]

59. He has to explain, not me.

He invoked the 5th because he believes e is exposed to criminal liability. Until he is granted immunity, I have no idea why he believes that. I can make guesses, but what's the point in that?

[ChiciB1]

15. What Email Shit???

Not buying that crap, just supporting Bernie Sanders because he's talking TO ME and making a lot of sense. AND, he's showing this country that maybe ALL THE MONEY can't buy you what you think you need.

[busterbrown]

17. Hey, I’m all in...n/t

[sadoldgirl]

22. This is a bit tricky

I don't care about the e-mail issue a lot, because
I have more issue oriented problems with HRC.

However, should she win the nomination, yes,then
I worry. Admitting she made a mistake there feeds
the repugs' story of a very bad judgement, which
they will use to any length.

While I don't see why anyone should or could trust
Jeb!, I know that that party will pull together
as usual.

Yes, to that extent it worries me.

[darkangel218]

25. Still Fail.

Nt

[Purveyor]

26. Uh nope. If it is reported, I'm going to post it.

She feathered her own nest with the half truths and distortions...

Typical SOP for the Clinton's.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. The least of her problems, I accuse her on a regular basis and have Never brought E-Mails up .

[busterbrown]

31. Great....

and so ineffective.. Bringing that stuff up accomplishes nothing..

[orpupilofnature57]

55. Agreed, It is why issues and content take a backseat .

[Electric Monk]

32. Last time I checked, there was no apostrophe in Bernie's last name (Sanders)

[demigoddess]

34. sorry, I can't support Sander's because

I support Bernie Sanders. Don't know who this other thing is.

[Aerows]

35. While keeping your own private mail server in the bathroom

displays questionable judgment, we have bigger fish to fry facing our nation.

Besides, I once went to diagnose a server and a router that started having problems in January - I flew all the way up there - and an entire, still put together 7-foot tall Christmas tree fell out on me when I opened the "server room" door.

There's nothing like picking pine needles, garland and tinsel out of your hair when you were just expecting to find a flaky switch or maybe some problems with the UPS.

[Attorney in Texas]

37. As a Sanders supporter, I agree. I prefer Sanders on ideological grounds; not because of bullshit

right-wing talking points.

[delrem]

39. "We came. We saw. He died", then rolling back in her chair laughing.

It's the pattern, my friend, the godforsaken pattern.
Everywhere you turn around it's bought by her monied interests.
Everywhere you turn around is another thoughtless war.

And you want more of that, my friend?

[busterbrown]

43. “Another thoughtless War"

I know about the Iraq war.. What were the others?

Monied Interests was never a point I denied.. My post is not about supporting Hillary.. Reread

[Samantha]

40. From the moment I first heard this story breaking, I thought it was a non-issue

I am a Sanders' supporter, but there are many, many politicos that use a private email for government business (and they have for years). I don't know why she didn't come right out and say this from the beginning.

Sam

[busterbrown]

42. I dunno...Maybe because she thought by defending herself..

Would give the story more legs..

[TM99]

50. No thanks.

I wonder if the concept of 'irony' is even taught any more today.

You think it is 'unprincipled crap' to talk about Clinton's email issues. Yet, you can't seem to recognize that the email situation is an yet another example of her 'unprincipled crap'.

Professional boundaries are necessary and important. This email situation shows that she does not believe that or accept that. Yes, that is very unprincipled.

I have a difficult time even thinking of an example in the professional world where it is A-OK to mix your personal and professional emails or any written communication. I have a difficult time even thinking of an example in the professional world where a manager, CEO, or leader is allowed to control their own email servers for a company.

Her actions at State with regards to this email server situation demonstrate an unprincipled character. Someone who is willing to lie, distort, and act as if she is above the rules of the common folk or anyone else in the same position. Benghazi is irrelevant to me. Whether it was legal or not is also irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me are ethical and professional considerations as well as the obviously poor way she has handled this entire situation.

[busterbrown]

54. Another example of below the line junk..

Yea and I’ll never get over people like you who sound like they’re writing for Newsmax.." We don’t give a shit what you write just come up with something” Yea “ professional boundaries” sounds good..Kind of reminds us of White Water, nobody knew what the hell we were talking about back then either”.

Funny she was our Secretary of State for how many years? and did a very good job...and yet all you can talk about is mixing her personal emails with her head of state emails.. “Professional Boundaries”? Give me a break..

5 Top Highlights in Hillary Clinton’s Secretary of State Tenure
By Eli Sugarman January 02, 2013 LIKE MIC ON FACEBOOK:
Hillary Clinton is widely admired for her intelligence, drive, and success as secretary of state. Her four years in office have been marked by a series of noteworthy accomplishments and near lack of serious missteps. Replacing her is a daunting task even for someone with Senator Kerry’s impressive foreign policy credentials. Below are 5 highlights from Clinton’s tenure:

1. People-to-People Diplomacy

Clinton understands the importance of strengthening ties with friends and allies while simultaneously engaging adversaries. Through intensive personal interaction, she has deftly built new relationships and managed old ones in a way that advance U.S. interests. In her own words, she has endeavored to ensure that the U.S. has “…a seat at every table that has the potential for being a partnership to solve problems.” For example, she expertly led efforts to rescue Chen Guangcheng, the dissident who took refuge in the U.S. Embassy in Beijing in May 2012, without crippling U.S.-China relations. Clinton has been the most active secretary of state in history, as a result. She has traveled more frequently and visited more countries than any of her predecessors; to date, her travels have spanned nearly 1 million miles and 112 countries.

2. The Importance of Economics

Clinton articulated a new vision of Economic Statecraft that made domestic economic growth – e.g. helping U.S. companies win business overseas – a key pillar of U.S. foreign policy. She made foreign policy relevant to the broader economic conversation, taking place in the U.S. in a show of political savvy few previous secretaries could match. And Clinton appointed the State Department’s first ever-chief economist to help implement Clinton’s vision. She also supported the more traditional economic aspects of foreign policy – such as sanctions – including those that crippled the Iranian government – and free trade – including Free Trade Agreements with allies Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.

3. Restoring American Credibility

Building on people-to-people diplomacy, Clinton has promoted U.S. values in a firm but respectful way that restored international faith in the U.S. that eroded during the Bush administration. Her outreach to Burma balances unwavering support for human rights with the promise of support to a previously suspicious regime and has opened that country to the world for the first time in decades. Aung San Suu Kyi is now free and her party actively participating in the governance reform effort in Burma. Clinton also rejuvenated U.S. engagement in the Middle East by brokering a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel earlier this year. Her shuttle diplomacy and coordination with Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi will likely give the U.S. greater leverage to pursue a robust peace process in 2013.

4. Diplomacy is National Security

The now iconic picture of senior officials gathered in the Situation Room during the Osama Bin Laden raid will forever memorialize one of the principal national security achievements of the first Obama administration. Clinton supported the raid and was a key player in adjusting U.S.-Pakistan relations afterwards. She was also a strong proponent of NATO airstrikes in Libya that eventually led to Muammar Gaddafi’s ouster. Her active diplomacy was critical to securing United Nations Security Council authorization of the Libya mission and maintaining strong European and regional support for it. Without such robust diplomatic effort, the use of military force – in Pakistan and Libya – would not have been nearly as effective. Clinton’s role in these two military campaigns highlights the central role foreign policy plays in U.S. national security in the 21st century.

5. Texts From Hillary

In 2012, Clinton became an internet sensation because of a series of memes depicting her having fictitious, comical text exchanges with other celebrities while wearing her trademark sunglasses. Texts from Hillary became so popular that Clinton herself submitted her own caption to the website and invited its creators to meet with her at the State Department. Her star power and ability to capture the imagination of individuals around the world is one noteworthy aspect of her success.

Senator Kerry will likely succeed Hillary Clinton in early 2013. Her tenure as secretary of state is filled with accomplishments that taken together demonstrate the resurgence of U.S. diplomacy and restoration of American credibility. Her specific successes – such as Burma’s opening to the world or crippling effect of Iran sanctions – are important, but so too are her focus on people-to-people diplomacy and economics. Senator Kerry would do well to build upon Clinton’s impressive record once he moves over to Foggy Bottom.

LIKE US ON FACEBOOK: SHARE TWEET POST

Eli Sugarman
Eli Sugarman is Senior Director at Gryphon Partners LLC, an advisory and investment firm that counsels leading international businesses and non-profit organizations on marke

[TM99]

56. Stop playing games.

Last edited Sun Sep 27, 2015, 09:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Yes, professional boundaries are important. Perhaps you have never worked a job that requires them. Perhaps you are one of those who thinks, 'Fuck it, anything goes'.

I am a licensed psychologist. For twenty fiver years, I have had to deal with professional boundaries.

I can not accept gifts from clients. To do so would not be illegal, but it would be unethical.

If I am out and a client and I are together in a social setting, it is inappropriate for me to acknowledge that unless they come up to me to say hello. Again, if I did so, it would not be illegal, but yes, it would be unethical & inappropriate.

I do not share my personal life with my clients before, during, or after a session. Yet, again, not illegal, but definitely inappropriate & unethical.

My client records are kept separately in my office away from any of my own personal records. Unless the client is a danger to herself or others, those are confidential files that will never be shared without explicit written permission, and then only with other professionals. This one is a mix of both legalities and ethical issues.

These are just a few of the examples. Lawyers, MD's, CEO's, and yes, even politicians will have similar or in some cases different ones.

Don't call us friends. Don't dismiss me with some bogus attempt to claim that professional boundaries are a product of Newsmax. It looks like the only thing that matters to you is the persona and you found a way to tout your candidate with a Facebook advert.

Dismiss this questioning of character at your own peril. For many, this is a bigger deal than whether Clinton was somehow involved in some conspiracy around Benghazi.

[busterbrown]

60. Conflating your professional boundaries with..

the fact that Clinton mixed her personal emails on a govt computer is just plain silly.
“Bigger deal than Benghazi”? The fact that you even bring it up speaks volumes...

And let me remind you, that in fact I like Bernie Sanders.. but IMO Hillary deserves lots of consideration..

[TM99]

63. Bullshit.

I used examples from my profession which are applicable to others. If you can't see that Clinton made a mistake, no amount of intelligent discussion or reasoning will suffice.

Sanders is the only one at this point that I am giving any consideration to in this election.

[busterbrown]

67. Your problem is that you don’t know when to quit...n/t

[TM99]

73. Why should I have quit?

Last edited Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:03 AM - Edit history (1)

I am in the right.

From this thread, it is more obvious that you should have quit a very long time ago.

[frylock]

72. Texts From Hillary is listed as one of the top 5 highlights of her tenure as Secretary of State?

And I'm sorry, but I don't see evidence of any solid accomplishments there.

[mhatrw]

51. Is something really bad is going to come out about Clinton's emails soon?

Just wondering ...

[ZM90]

53. I don't care about her emails. I just think Bernie is better on the issues.

The email thing is pretty much a ginned up scandal and a distraction from the real issues facing the country.

[Motown_Johnny]

57. Your standards for her are far too low.

Even Hillary herself now admits that she should have had a separate server for official emails. Something that Hillary supporters have been attacking the rest of us for saying for months now. They also claim that Sec. Powell did the same thing, even though he had a separate server for government emails. So where is the bullshit really coming from?


The initial response to the story was to do nothing for eight days (yes Eight Freaking Days!) and then to try and explain things away as not wanting to carry two phones. We now know that her Blackberry was not government issue and could access as many email accounts as she wanted. The response, that took eight days to dream up, was pure bullshit.

She has claimed that it all started because she asked for the emails to be released. She did not make that request until 3 days after the story broke. More bullshit.

She has claimed to be as cooperative as possible, after fighting turning over her server for over five months. Maybe for her fighting something for five months before being forced to do something is as cooperative as she can possibly be. If so, she should not be our nominee and if not then this is more bullshit.


You accuse others of spreading bullshit yet you accept Hillary's bullshit without question. Your standards for her are far too low.


P.S. I picked that term because you used it. Personally, I don't like it but it seems to be one you like.

[busterbrown]

62. The fact that you spend so much energy

attacking our former Head of State over this matter is pure dung..Jesus she was Secretary of State for how many years? You should perhaps attack her record in this area or her Iraq vote...Would make more sense.

[Motown_Johnny]

64. You brought this up in the OP.

If you want to make a thread about her time as SOS then feel free.

I was staying on topic.

Now, any substantive rebuttal or is "pure dung" the best you can do?

[busterbrown]

65. Yep..When you start spouting Right Wing Talking Points..

It’s the best I can do..

[Motown_Johnny]

66. None of this is talking points

All I did was point out what Hillary and her campaign said and did.

Again, these are things that HILLARY CLINTON and HER CAMPAIGN have said and done.

Retreating into insulting me as "spouting right wing talking points" is just proof that what she and her campaign have said and done is indefensible.

You are just one more person saying untrue things in support of Hillary Clinton. Everything I posted was the truth.

[busterbrown]

68. You have a problem Houston..

which is, I like Bernie Sanders.. My point isn that people like you are hurting the Progressive cause... Harp on her vote on Iraq, the fact that she takes money from big banks. Other than than that. Shut the heck up about the email crap..

[Motown_Johnny]

69. I'm not going to shut up about anything.

You started the OP and mentioned the emails.

In case you didn't notice, what I posted were things that she and her campaign said that were false. Maybe you have no problem with an endless stream of false statements but a candidate can't win the White House with low trustworthy numbers and an active scandal like this.

Hillary and her enablers are hurting the progressive cause. She is a terrible candidate and should not be our nominee.

[busterbrown]

70. “ Low trustworthy numbers”?

Numbers created by polls which want nothing more than attention..”False statements” about email servers.. Please find a better argument, because this one stinks.. Your problem with me is,,that I like Bernie, what angers me are people like you who carry right wing talking points.. Surprised you’re not talking about Benghazi, API, Solyndra .Fast and Furious, IRS, API, all the same crap.. So why not throw in Email Servers...? Wasn’t Hillary Secretary of State when these incidents occurred?

[Motown_Johnny]

74. Accurately describing the past is not a talking point.

Revisionist history is more of a right wing tactic than anything else.

I don't talk about Bengazi, API, Solyndra, etc etc etc because she did nothing wrong there. I am pointing out what she has done wrong. You can pretend the problem does not exist if you want, but you are about to have a very bad month. More emails will be released in a couple of days and that will carry on through a couple news cycles and be covered again on the Sunday shows. Then the run up to the debate and the debate itself will all have discussion about the email scandal. Then she has to go before the Congress to testify and the (R)s are going to do nothing but attack her on this scandal, and the news will cover that too. Then at the end of the month there will be another release of emails and more negative news cycles for her. As I said, you are about to have a bad month. Hillary has the potential for having a very bad month. We will see how she handles it.


Since all you can do is use different words for feces "bullshit, crap, dung" as a defense for Hillary I will simply repost what I said earlier. All of this is true.


Even Hillary herself now admits that she should have had a separate server for official emails. Something that Hillary supporters have been attacking the rest of us for saying for months now. They also claim that Sec. Powell did the same thing, even though he had a separate server for government emails. So where is the bullshit really coming from?


The initial response to the story was to do nothing for eight days (yes Eight Freaking Days!) and then to try and explain things away as not wanting to carry two phones. We now know that her Blackberry was not government issue and could access as many email accounts as she wanted. The response, that took eight days to dream up, was pure bullshit.

She has claimed that it all started because she asked for the emails to be released. She did not make that request until 3 days after the story broke. More bullshit.

She has claimed to be as cooperative as possible, after fighting turning over her server for over five months. Maybe for her fighting something for five months before being forced to do something is as cooperative as she can possibly be. If so, she should not be our nominee and if not then this is more bullshit.


You accuse others of spreading bullshit yet you accept Hillary's bullshit without question. Your standards for her are far too low.


P.S. I picked that term because you used it. Personally, I don't like it but it seems to be one you like.





How about trying to disprove some of what I said? Good luck with that. False statements that she and her campaign made is a very good argument for those of us who still care about the character of our elected officials. Maybe you are not one of us but that is your problem.

[busterbrown]

77. Might be a good start.. You think?

From Media Matters:


FACT: None Of The Emails Sent To Clinton Were Labeled As "Classified" Or "Top Secret"

FACT: Emails Originated In State Dept. System, And Questions About Retroactive Classification Would Have Occurred Regardless Of Clinton's Server Use

FACT: Experts Have Debunked Any Comparison Between Clinton's Email Use And David Petraeus' Crimes

FACT: IG Referral To Justice Department Was Not Criminal, And FBI Isn't Targeting Clinton Herself

[Fawke Em]

61. No.

I work in the IT security industry. The unsecured email server is a huge deal.

I don't give a shit whether she exchanged personal emails on a business server or vice versa. That's not the issue. The issue is her very unsecure personal server probably has been hacked and who knows what national security secrets the Chinese or Russian governments have now.

[busterbrown]

76. Wow...

Sounds like an espionage thriller.. “National Security Secrets” “Probably” Give me a break..

[99Forever]

75. Like it or not...

... Hillary Clinton's email scandal will not be dismissed with a wave of the royal hand. Whatever spin you try to put on it, will never make it go away, it will haunt her until she leaves public life. That is simply the reality.

It shows a much bigger problem with Hillary Clinton, a huge lack of foresight and very poor judgment. It is a self-inflicted, unforced error that cannot and will not be ignored. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Call it "right wing bullshit" all you please, it still sits there, stinking up the entire Democratic Party.