Black Lives Matter activists disappointed by Hillary Clinton's understanding of police violence

[virtualobserver]

Interesting article on Daily Kos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/11/1430583/-Black-Lives-Matter-activists-disappointed-by-Hillary-Clinton-s-understanding-of-police-violence

“You saying that you know that you’re white, you know that you have power, and you know that you are wealthy is not the same as seeing it and knowing that the way that police interact with you is completely different than how they will ever interact with us,” Elzie said. “I felt like Bernie understood that.”

In short, activist Johnetta Elzie felt that Hillary was unable to acknowledge that police -- systematically -- interact with the poor and people of color in a very different way than they do privileged whites.
Deray McKesson echoed Elzie's concerns, noting that Hillary didn't seem to understand that all Americans, particularly people of color, do not necessarily feel "safe" in the presence of police.

Mckesson said Clinton, like many Americans, also seemed to struggle with the notion that “police don’t actually always make people feel safe” and that Americans don’t all share the same conception of the police.

[99th_Monkey]

1. Wow - this is huge & needs to go viral. May it be so. -nt-

[restorefreedom]

2. i don't think this reflects a clinton racial bias,

but rather a severe class bias. she is in the tip top 1% and has had handlers and errand people forever. i can't imagine how someone in the elite uberrich could even begin to understand what community police interaction is like in poor and/or minority communities.

she still has the same problem, but it is for a different reason than many who might be motivated by racism.

bottom line, though...,she doesn't get it

[HerbChestnut]

5. +1

[virtualobserver]

6. The occasional dog-whistle perhaps, but I don't think that anyone imagines her to be truly racist

[restorefreedom]

9. the dog whistle, imo

was for political purposes, as is basically everything she does. i don't think she is racist but those 08 dog whistles were truly vile

[artislife]

37. 2008 is when the Clintons "died" for me

I think they are nice people racist. What I mean by that is that they like minorities, have some friends but when things get tight, whether it's jobs or arguments or political campaigns going south....boom..the latent racism comes out. See the movie Crash. You'll get what I mean.

[restorefreedom]

62. never saw that movie

but its one on my to watch list.

and yeah, i see what you mean.

[virtualobserver]

63. They "died" for me in 2008 as well

At first I almost couldn't believe they were doing it, by the end I felt like I couldn't support her in the General Election.

Fortunately, I didn't have to test that.

[cui bono]

12. Because she wants the presidency so bad she'll sieze on any opportunity

she believes will put her ahead and in the WH.

Let's face it, there seemed to have been a concerted effort during the BLM protests of the Dem candidates to turn it all against Sanders and make him appear racist at worst and tone deaf at best. Using an issue like this as a political football is atrocious. I'm not saying she gave the go ahead, but it was pretty clear that the supporters and surrogates were united on the smear mongering and it was non-stop and loud when it was happening.

And then when she didn't even allow BLM into the venue and was so condescending to their representatives you didn't hear a peep about it from all the people who were in an uproar over Bernie. And she just had a Latino immigrant activist ejected from an event of hers for speaking out and there was no outrage from the same people who were yelling about how Bernie didn't get social issues and was not for PoC. It's shameful to have such a serious issue exploited for political gain.

[artislife]

39. Yup

It is amazing to me that more of us minorities aren't effing sick of it. I posted once on an OP (which the OP writer promptly deleted ) to stop using minorities like a brick to be thrown through the opponents store front window. That we were humans, dammit not props for supporters to use in anyway to promote their candidate.

I LOVE the Bernie supporters because they don't focus on the ethnic make up of his followers on their own. Sure we do, when accused of being wealthy white males, but between us there is no special racial "friendships" to prove that we are inclusive. I like that the majority of the supporters just think it is enough that one supports Bernie, no matter where we come from.

The Bernie minorities pipe up about it, so we can destroy the h meme, but not to prove our worthiness to other Bernie supporters. Bernie supporters are like Bernie, we all believe we are being ripped off, the food supply is compromised and the future looks bleak if we don't stand for the environment.

We are ONE.

Not the one percent

[senz]

93. Well said, artislife.

You express the thoughts and feelings of most of us.

[AlbertCat]

46. Bernie didn't get social issues and was not for PoC.

This is a GOP meme started early on when someone noticed VT didn't have a big black population.

Before they banned me, I used to ask in AA why they kept going with right wing memes... when if one looked at Sanders record, being tone deaf to racism was not an accurate description. Many seemed to just accept it and pointing out they might be mistaken will rile people up.

But, y'know, it was early....

And as people get to know and see Sanders, they can see he's for people...of all colors. He's for citizens. And he's trying to get us to come to grips with how money affects each color and strata differently.

[cui bono]

48. Yes. And white Hillary supporters kept posting smear mongering OPs in the AA group

and they got left up by shitty hosts, one of whom now complains about the infiltration of DUers into the AA group when they didn't have any concerns about AA issues before. Of course, that complaint was only to Bernie supporters and when I pointed out that I was going in there to defend Bernie since they were allowing smears to stand and that if they searched my posts they could find that I stood up for PoC many times in the past, that AA host told me they didn't care how I felt about AA issues. Not kidding. It was surreal.

They have bullied PoC who are Sanders supporters and have even banned PoC from the group. What a joke.

The hypocrisy being used in order to justify supporting Hillary is astounding.

[noiretextatique]

74. Agree 1000%

Accurate analysis. I do not post thete anymore.

[Number23]

96. Good Lord, I have never seen anyone so concerned about a group they NEVER POST IN

I don't get you or your fixation on the AA group at all. You have NEVER posted in the AA group so what are you talking about "I was going in there to defend Bernie?" You have never posted in AA and as far as I can tell, your only level of participation in that forum in the almost FOUR YEARS it's been on DU3 was to alert on posts there you didn't like. And as a non-regular, we gave your alerts all the attention they deserved just as other groups do as well.

Bernie supporters are rife in the AA forum. Bernie supporters are HOSTS in the AA forum.

We have ONE person of color blocked from AA.

And I've asked you about your claims before and you disappeared into the mist but not before typing some 10 paragraph screed that had fuck all to do with any of the questions I asked, then you piped back up FOUR DAYS LATER just to say you weren't going to "play my game" and still decided to not answer my questions.

I am sick and tired of a certain caliber here of Sanders supporters crying about the AA forum. If the forum makes you so bleeding miserable, just stay out of it and stop reading it. But all of this dishonest crying and screaming over a forum you have NEVER POSTED IN makes no sense whatsoever.

[Autumn]

105. You have Sanders supporters as hosts?

Interesting.

[Number23]

106. Yes, we do. Surprised that escaped the constant monitoring

[Autumn]

109. I don't monitor your group I just looked at your host list when I saw your post

and your claim that you have Sanders supporters as hosts and I'm trying to figure out which ones are the Sanders supporters.

[Number23]

112. You could PM every one of them and ask yourself

But Gollygee has stated more than once she is supporting Sanders. Blue_tires is a Sanders supporter and was a host but is constantly alert stalked off the board and has been added and dropped more than once as a host.

And one black woman named bravenak, you may have heard of her, is still a Sanders supporter despite having been alert stalked off DU forever. She was a host as well.

[Autumn]

117. I guess I haven't encountered gollygee before, I only PM friends that I know n/t

[Number23]

127. Not surprising. I don't think she's a big fan of the Sanders group

A big fan of Sanders himself though. I've encountered a large number of posters here that fit that same profile

[Autumn]

133. A lot of groups don't have fans. n/t

[tblue37]

138. Is this true--that bravenak doesn't intend to ever come back to DU?

I sure hope you are wrong, but I fear you are probably right. I can't blame her for deciding never to return, but I can't help hoping she changes her mind.

[Number23]

140. She's sent me many PMs over the past month or so. She's told me that's she's spoken to other black

Sanders supporters who have also said they'd never come back to DU because of the attacks on BLM and the AA community for supporting Hillary, which makes all of the "it was black people and/or the AA forum or black Twitter that started all of the 'Bernie is racist" crap that much more deranged, if entirely predictable. The entire Internet has been discussing this for MONTHS and knows full well where this problem started.

She's seen the posts from people here who've said that she mailed those letters to herself. And she's seen the attacks here on people that she's friends with and she's seen the caliber of the people doing the attacking. I personally think she'd be crazy to come back and I think I can say that judging by what she's sent me and said in PM, she won't ever be back. And it is truly DU's loss but I think it's the only thing that makes sense for her. She needs to look after herself.

[tblue37]

145. Damn. It is DU's loss. So many good people have been driven away by the

unnecessary nastiness. I think the ugliness is not representative, but those given to vicious posting are prolific and determined, so their impact is greater than their numbers--rather like the numerically small but disproportionately influential Teabagger Caucus in the House that has made it impossible to do the country's business.

I will continue to hope she will come back someday. The more good people we lose, the more influence the most vicious posters will wield.

[Number23]

147. I absolutely could not agree more.

I will continue to hope she will come back someday. The more good people we lose, the more influence the most vicious posters will wield.

It's getting to the point where no one can say anything without some 20 person pile on, particularly in this forum. And the fact that the vast majority in the pile ons are full of some of the nastiest, most hateful, and most reviled posters here just makes it all the more simultaneously fascinating and hypocritical as hell.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing you with another poster but there is you and someone named tblue. One of you was banned from the AA forum and I reinstated them. Was that person you??

[tblue37]

177. No, tblue is someone else. We jokingly call each other "cuz" when we run across each other

on DU, and we are often confused with each other because of our similar DU names.

If she was banned from AA I am sorry to hear it. Unlike me, she actually is African American. (I am a freckled, redheaded half Sicilian American.) We are both Sanders supporters, though.

Oh, and by the way, I have never been banned from any forum, nor have I ever had a post hidden in my nearly 11 and a half years here--probably because I don't believe in slinging insults and I don't get into internet fights. It just seems unproductive.

[Number23]

179. Good for you! You're obviously extremely proud of your record here

Then yes, I guess it was the other tblue that was banned. And as I noted, she was reinstated and only days later, I believe.

FYI though I'm not really sure why this is needed or relevant, but I've never been banned from any forum either.

[tblue37]

181. You are one of the members whose posts I make a point of looking for.

Last edited Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:07 AM - Edit history (1)

So was bravenak--as are bigtree, H2O Man, Mr.Scorpio, California Peggy, 1StrongBlackMan, sibelian, Omaha Steve, McCamy Taylor, madfloridian, and a handful of others. I read DU to learn about things that matter, and specifically to learn about things, and read perceptive analyses of things, that I cannot easily get elsewhere.

DU is good as a news aggregate site for liberals (I still miss the brilliant news collection efforts of kephra, don't you?). But when I was on smirkingchimp.com, before coming here by following a link from smirkingchimp.com to an H2O man essay, I also had that news aggregate function. Not as good as here, but good enough.

What I liked better here, though, was the level of the discussion and the intellectual quality of some of the posts. To put it bluntly, more of the DU members seemed to make carefully considered analyses and to engage in interesting discussions here. Oh, sure, there is always mudslinging, especially during primary season, but I still get more of what I like to read here than elsewhere, so I am still here. For example, where else would I have seen anything like bigtree's brilliant photo essays on the Ferguson protests? Where else would I find anything like madfloridian's posts about NCLB and the impact of the charter school/privatization movement on public education? I would have to spend time I don't have hunting around for information that I can easily get here because other people are willing to spend their time collecting the info and posting it.

I forgot to mention Judi Lynn in my list. She keeps us informed about Latin American events and issues.

It is not so much that I am "proud" of my record here. It is that my record us evidence of my way of being in the world and of dealing with other people. I actually teach college English, with an emphasis on what most people (unfortunately, I believe) call "argumentative" writing. I call it "analytical/persuasive" writing, because as I see it, the writer's purpose should be not to argue a reader into surrender, but rather to enlighten the reader, to show the reasoning and evidence that has led the writer to a conclusion about a complex topic. If the writer has informed himself and has thought clearly and carefully, then his analysis will be persuasive. By that I don't mean his reader will necessarily end up agreeing with him, but that if the reader is also approaching the topic in good faith, he will listen to the analysis and consider it with an open mind, prepared to change his own views if presented with valid reasons for doing so.

Obviously and unfortunately, that sort of approach to the discussion of important ideas and issues is not as common as shouting and chest thumping. In fact, that is exactly why I don't let myself get drawn into internet fights. I know that it is impossible to reach someone with my words if that person just wants to fight with me. There is a great little cartoon that some DUers use in their sig line:



In fact, someone here has modified the original to read "Someone is wrong on DU." I just don't consider it my job to go around fixing it whenever I think someone is wrong on the internet--or on DU. I read on the net for my own enlightenment or entertainment, not to fix the thinking of those who are "wrong."
,

[Number23]

189. I used to read smirkingchimp too! That site was hilarious. I haven't looked at in in years though

And again, I agree with you completely about the devolution of discussion and analysis here on DU.

I would love for you to visit and participate in the AA forum here. The forum appears to be like garlic to vampires to those who are not interested in discussion or analysis, just mindless yup yupping of certain ideals and viewpoints.

As an example, there were two threads on a recent Washington Post article about Hillary's plunging AA support. One was in GD, the other was in the AA forum. In the article, it made it clear that Hillary's support was "plunging" (although with a ten point MOE on AA's, the very group that was being measured in the article, it's hard to think of the poll as anything but an outlier) because Biden was eroding that support.

But yet, in the GD thread, all you saw was post after post about how black people were "feeling the Bern" and how as more blacks "learn" and "see the light" about Sanders, his numbers will increase. That was the polar opposite of what the article was saying. In that poll, there were more votes from black participants for undecided than there were for Sanders. That thread was full of just mindless and incredibly embarrassing high fiving of what people want to see, not what's true or what's real.

In the thread in the AA forum, there was much more discussion about how there was no way that Hillary would be able to maintain her almost 90% support in the AA community, particularly if Biden enters the race. Biden is Obama's VP and Obama enjoys CONTINUOUS, long term support of around 90% from the AA community. Many would see Biden entering the race as Obama's third term which would be an incredibly seductive lure to many black people.

Two threads, one actually dealing with reality, one not. Guess which one got the most recs?? I'd just roll my eyes at this and move on but some here are determined to pretend that the AA forum is something that it's not and we have been besieged for months as a result. It is particularly concerning to see black people, one of the most oppressed minority groups in the history of the United States and a cornerstone of the Dem party, attacked this way. And especially when the vast majority of it is coming from quarters that at this point, now have a very well documented and well discussed tendency towards attacking black people and black causes and have been called out by damn near the entire Internet as a result. And yet, judging by the responses in this thread and elsewhere, their behavior and who they blame for all of this hasn't changed one damn bit. John Lewis endorsed Hillary last week and almost immediately his Facebook page was crapped on. Would you like to guess which supporters of which candidate were responsible?

I don't care or feel the need to "fix" most people's posts here either which is one of the reasons I am gobsmacked when so many feel the need to chase after others doing just that. But as I noted, there have been repeated attacks against the AA forum and black posters here and most of them are 100% unadulterated BS. And they should stop.

[tblue37]

192. I always read the AA forum--after all, that's where a lot of my favorite DU members do a lot

of their posting. I do post there sometimes, but in general I prefer to listen to those who know more than I do on such topics.

I regularly K&R or just rec posts that support either Bernie or Hillary. I prefer Bernie, but I will avidly support Hillary if she is nominated.

I do understand why she feels it necessary to amass such a war chest from deep pocket donors. Her approach may well be more realistic than Bernie's, though he has accomplished remarkable things without the support of billionaires, banksters, and corporations. Still, the little engine that could will risk running out of fuel halfway up the hill if he can't raise a sufficient war chest.

I also think that Hillary's unfortunate IWR and previous TTP support, among other things I disapprove of (I.e., the whole Third Way economic stance), were calculated to keep her future political options open. Again, I understand why she might take stances that are not liberal on some issues that matter to me even when her inclination might be in the other direction. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world, and the perfectly pure tend to not be included in the game at all.

My concern is that when politicians compromise too much to get into positions of power because they wish to do good, they might find that their compromises have boxed them in, like the protagonist in the political drama The Seduction of Joe Tynan.

OTOH, I worry that even if Bernie can be elected, he might be kneecapped by both parties' entrenched powers, just as Carter was, so that *nothing* gets done at all. Of course, I also worry that as a GE candidate Hillary will mobilize the RW fanatics.

I also hate the highhanded way DWS is handling the debates.

I always remember, though, that ultimately we are supposed to be on the same side. I like both candidates--and O'Malley, too. Our candidates are so much better that the occupants of the GOP clown car.

[blackspade]

160. If Bravenak does not return, it will be a sad loss for the whole community.

And a victory for the fucking assholes that alert stalked her.
But totally understandable considering the scumbag DUer that sent those letters to her.

[tblue37]

184. +1,000,000. nt

[roguevalley]

110. I don't post in other groups and their concerns are mine too. Fancy that. I

didn't know I had to be a poster to care.

[Number23]

113. I don't know what this post means.

[AlbertCat]

186. I don't know what this post means.

What's wrong? Couldn't think of a way to stir it up...like you have above?


Stir it up...little darlin'!

[Number23]

191. I'd stir it up if only to show you how it's properly done

Because this effort of yours right here is absolutely hysterical in it's kindergarten level of tiredness.

Don't worry about not being embarrassed by this. I'm embarrassed enough for you.

[cui bono]

155. COMPLETELY untrue. Last time I checked 14 was more than NEVER.

I don't expect the truth or a reasonable discussion from you anyway though. Talk about "dishonest crying and screaming".

All you had to do was look it up and see that it is exactly as I said.

And last time we had an exchange you were 'concerned' with the AA groups sudden popularity with people who had never shown an interest in AA issues in the past. When I told you I had shown an interest and had been a vocal advocate of PoC you then replied that you didn't care about that. So who knows with you what you want or have a problem with... Sheesh.

The only reason I bothered to reply to you now is that you completely lied about me. I tried to have a discussion with you last time around and all you had was rudeness. Just as you have now.

I know you hate me because I dared criticize Obama. Well too bad. That's your problem, not mine. I will criticize any politician who I think is not fighting for the people's interests. So sue me.

[Number23]

164. I don't hate you. I don't care anything about you

And with 14 posts in four years (which I notice you didn't bother to link to any of them), there is certainly no surprise that your "participation" in the forum could be forgotten completely. And as usual, your posts ring so incredibly dishonest and hollow.

If my comment about not "caring" about your "concern" about AA issues was in response to a comment I made about the influx of people who were suddenly swarming the AA forum but had never participated before, with 14 posts in four years, what in the world makes you think that you would be someone I was talking about??? Someone with so few posts in the AA forum could hardly be considered "swarming" so I have no idea why you jumped up to take that criticism on yourself.

When I asked you before about your criticisms around the AA forum, it was because you kept hollering that a AA forum "hero" had called someone a traitor to their race. I've asked you, TWICE now, who the "hero" was and for links to that and you always slink off.

And as for your "criticism" of politicians, we in the AA forum will continue to do the same. And if that causes howls and screams from certain quarters here, particularly those with well documented histories of open hostility to black posters and black people like some folks chiming in to this thread, please believe me when I tell you that none of us there could care less.

[cui bono]

166. As to the other thread, you know very well I provided links that answered your questions.

Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015, 10:34 PM - Edit history (1)

You just can't be bothered to check. You'd rather argue with me.

Never once did I "slink off". So you can just stop lying about me. Just as you did about me never having posted in the AA forum.

Get your facts straight and stop making shit up about me if you want to continue. I was willing to have a real discussion with you, but it has to start with honesty. Since all you do is snark away and level false accusations at me, I will not respond. Just as I told you in that other thread that if you were not going to try to have an honest discussion I would not respond. And of course, you posted some snarky rude retort and so I didn't respond.

It was up to you. But don't go saying I "slink off" when I refuse to continue some stupid argument that has no basis in reality. Clearly you are not capable of honest discussion so forget it.

[Number23]

169. Where are these links where the "hero" of the AA forum calls someone a traitor to their race?

When I asked you for them before, you sniffed FOUR DAYS LATER "I'm not going to play your game" and vanished. Where are these links????

And if you can stop your unending and borderline obsessive campaign to lie on and smear the AA forum every single chance that you get in thread after thread after thread, I would have NO problems never, EVER responding to you again. And you can take that to the bank.

[cui bono]

174. Again, you know very well I provided links in that other thread. Have at it if you want answers.

As to the rest of your post, again, you are just not telling the truth.

Post the link to that other exchange and let's see if there's links there or not and if I "slinked off" or not or whatever your new word is.

[Number23]

176. You did NOT post links to the "hero" of the AA forum calling someone a traitor to their race

This is at least the second falsehood you've been called out on in this thread.

And the idea that you can't find the link to your own post with those irrefutable "links" is hilarious. You were somehow able to find and count every single post of yours in the AA forum (which AGAIN you never linked to) but somehow you can't find a post you made last month?

Your failed alert attempt on my posts in this thread does nothing but bolster my argument which is that you are CONTINUOUSLY sliming the AA posters on this board and the AA forum here. You know it as well as I do. And you really should stop.

[cui bono]

188. Yes I did. As I said, go ahead and post the link to that exchange.

Where did I say I couldn't find a link to my own post? Please quote me. The only person who's lying in this exchange is you. I've already shown that to be true upthread when you lied about my having "NEVER" posted in the AA forum. Perhaps you're the one having trouble with searching.

I alerted on you because you keep lying about me, it has no bearing on anything else. I post what I observe and many have agreed with me on it.

I'm done with this childishness.

[Number23]

190. POST YOUR OWN LINK

Post your own link to your own post with the links. This is beyond comical at this point and is actually getting to the point of pitiful.

[Time_Lord]

85. ....on a side note

That spinning cat planet was driving me crazy! Thanks for changing the signature.

[hifiguy]

101. That bullshit started here a couple of days before Bernie even announced.

And was promoted by the same swine who congregate at that site which shall not be named.

Possibly the most disgraceful thing I've seen in my 10+ years on DU, but considering the sources, I am not one bit surprised.

[arcane1]

108. And the intention turned out to be about exploiting black people, not supporting them.

The irony.

[Prism]

100. The insincerity is cynical

Because how can anyone be taken seriously again? Either things are wrong or they are not. Once you decree that things are only ever situationally wrong based on whatever your political necessity is at the moment, I know I need never take your remarks at face value again.

Clinton has made plenty of missteps on social justice issues over the past few months. There is nothing but crickets from the people who swore up and down that social justice is everything.

I don't believe these people. At all. And I don't think they care as much as they claim to.

[cui bono]

158. I agree completely.

And might I add I admire your posting style. You state the truth and yet don't get caught up in the drama. I will try to do that as well from now on.

[arcane1]

111. Imagine the uproar if Sanders pointed into that BLM guy's face and said "here's what you need to do"

There would be nothing left of DU but a smoking crater

[jfern]

121. The double standard is ridiculous

[jwirr]

17. That is what I was thinking. It is more that she is out of

touch with what is happening down here and while many here on DU and certainly black communities recognize what is happening it is harder for Hillary who lives in that safe world to get how we feel about the lack of justice - both social and economic justice. How does anyone understand that if they do not live it.

Despite the fact that she said they were broke when they left the WH I don't think she has ever been even close to desperate in her life. And as to discrimination well I think she has also been pretty priviledged in her life as well. I don't think it is a deliberate attitude she just does not see just how desperate things are down here.

[hifiguy]

102. If she was "dead broke" when she left the WH at the end of Bubba's term

she certainly has rebounded nicely.

According to http://moneynation.com/hillary-clinton-net-worth/ HRH is worth $31.2 million. That's a rebound at the rate of about $2 million per year over the last 15 years.

We should all be so "lucky."

[jwirr]

153. Agreed. And that tells us from that experience she

may have learned to think that we can all rebound if we just keep working at it.

And she may also be more afraid than she ever was before of losing what she has now.

The first lesson is just plain untrue. The second I don't really blame anyone for feeling that way - everyone down here on the bottom understands that fear 100%.

[sabrina 1]

22. She also supports the current militarization of the police. All the wealthy feel safer knowing

that the police's main job now is to protect THEM from the rabble. We saw that so clearly during OWS. It so exposed the whole corrupt system.

Bloomberg, another wealthy politician, called the NYPD 'my army' and we know that he donated millions to the NYPD.

So of course Hillary, who is way more comfortable among her own class, could not possibly agree that the police are not there to protect the poor and minorities. Quite the opposite.

I wonder why anyone would be surprised by this.

[restorefreedom]

61. very good,points,sabrina

and this reminds me of another issue, since you mentioned militarization, being a war hawk also disproportionately affects poc, since many military families are foc.

edit...i do still thinks it reflects more of a class/elite bias than anything overtly racial.

[brewens]

87. Yes. The 1%, even ones that claim to be Democrats, are comforted by their police

force. They throw us scaps to fight over to get our votes, all the while feeling they will be protected if the shit ever hits the fan. It's exponentially worse for minorities, but white working class people like myself get the treatment too.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

79. She basically does NOT get it

she won't put herself on the line. If she lived here in Baltimore city she would understand. Bernie on the other hand has put himself on the line.

[restorefreedom]

150. very true. nt

[Doctor_J]

98. also see my response 97

I think she's out of touch on many issues

[hifiguy]

99. +1

And HRH is nothing if not a 1%er.

[restorefreedom]

151. i bet

it is 0.01% er but at that point does it really matter?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

3. “I felt like Bernie understood that.”

Oh, dear.

[virtualobserver]

7. I think that he always has, but BLM has helped him to understand it on a deeper level.

[cui bono]

49. And also that he needs to let them know he gets it.

And he listened and now he has put his views on racism prominently in his platform, which is a great thing.

[Snotcicles]

4. I think BLM will be cool once they tighten up their lag. Welcome home BLM. nt

[demwing]

8. Any Clinton policy is like the weather in New England

if you don't like it, wait a few minutes

[grasswire]

10. she's a 1 percenter and has an authoritarian streak

She conveys that elitism to many, many people.

That's why she totally turns me off. Not one of us.

[sabrina 1]

26. One thing I notice about her when she talks about issues like Welfare Reform, eg. She constantly

uses examples of how SHE was taught to be 'responsible' and how we don't want to enable people to be 'dependent'.

She gives examples of how she was taught to 'work hard' etc etc. It's the old 'pull yourselves up by your bootstraps' routine.

And it's offensive as hell to put yourself on a pedestal from which you look down and judge those who did not have your privileged life. She talks about the poor in a very condescending way so I'm not surprised they picked up on that.

[jfern]

30. She was taught to be responsible

by having her parents foot the bill for a private college? She really doesn't get it.

[sabrina 1]

35. Yes, she's like a lot of very conservative people I know. They totally miss the fact that so many

children did not have their start in life and feel they have a right to judge them.

[rhett o rick]

134. The wealthy elite think that "pull yourself up by the boot straps" means to get

Goldman-Sachs to give you a couple hundred thousand if you stop by for tea and say nice things about bankers.

I think it's a moral issue that some Democrats think that the wealthy getting big handouts from big corporations or the government is ok but trying to make it by working hard for a crappy $10.10 per hour (Obama) or even $12 per hour (Clinton) can be ignored.

If you support the status quo, you are saying you are ok with the state of the 99% today. Sen Sanders is passionate about change while Clinton gives a little lip service to change while winking at Goldman-Sachs.

[tblue37]

142. Remember Romney's advice to young people? He said they should

borrow $20,000 from their parents and start a business. Ann said that she and Mitt were so poor as a young couple that they had to cash in a couple of stocks to live on and couldn't afford to throw dinner parties.

The 1% tend to be clueless about such things, regardless of which party they belong to.

[rhett o rick]

144. HRC was broke in 2000 but "pulled herself up" and now worth over $30 million.

I think she has a hard time relating to the working class.

[hifiguy]

157. Ya think? Amassing wealth at the rate of $2 million per year

for the last 15 years. Yeah, we can all do that. Wish in one hand and crap in the other.....

[rhett o rick]

159. It's very hard for people like her to understand what the working class has to put up with. nm

[passiveporcupine]

170. rich people broke is not the same as poor people broke

I don't believe she was ever broke, but perhaps she had to curtail her lifestyle a bit till some debts got paid off. Like a month or two at most.

[rhett o rick]

172. I absolutely agree. She has influence and that is a huge asset. The billionaires recognize it

and are willing to pay her nicely for her help. It's blatant quid pro quo politics.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. Some of her media surrogates also struggle with the notion that cops don't make everyone feel safe.

For example, centrist journalist Steven Leser has this to say about the African American community going to the police:

If I were a criminal, knowing about the no snitch code, I would immediately change my operations so that all my criminal activities took place in black neighborhoods. In other words, this belief system is an open invitation to criminals of all stripes to prey on members of the black community. That is what this philosophy is. It’s the entire black community standing up with arms outstretched and saying at the top of their lungs, “Come rob, rape or kill me, (or all of the above) please!”.

After the 60 minutes expose, I would expect to see Burglars, Robbers, Rapists, Child Molesters, Drug Dealers, Con Artists, Organized Crime syndicates and any other kind of criminals move their operations into black neighborhoods. I am sure we will see this happen and see it reflected in the crime statistics over the next few years. A law enforcement official in the 60 minutes segment quoted a statistic that in some African American communities, ‘No Snitching’ has contributed to reduce the rate of murders being solved to less than 10%. It is a shame that only a few years after African Americans mostly rid their communities of gangs, they are extending an open invitation for criminals to take up residence there.

At the same time, now that this is known, law abiding people are going to start avoiding the black community. I certainly don’t want anyone I care about to go to a place where criminals know they are getting a free pass to rob, rape or kill them. This is going to translate into a measurable economic loss for businesses of the black community. All the work that many people are doing to create new businesses owned by African Americans along with other efforts to build up the economic power of the black community is going to be destroyed by “No snitching”
...
Leaders of the black community need to get together and take on this cancer in their community. No snitching isn’t noble or brave, it is a way for a community to commit a slow and painful suicide and up until now, leaders of the black community have stood by and let it happen. It is time for them to show that they are leaders and that no matter how pervasive


http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_070422_no_snitching_creed_a.htm

He didn't leave any room for the fact that many people, especially African Americans, know that just by contacting the police, they've increased the risk of bad things happening to them. I see Clinton and some of her supporters as kind of tone deaf on this one.

[virtualobserver]

20. Does he have any more gems like that out there?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

21. Yes. I believe the colloquialism is a "shit ton".

There's some Lieberman praise, followed by some Lieberman hate. There's a whole MRA thing about child support and women who spend their Ex's support payments on booze. There's an accusation that Obama is a liar. There's a trove of material. I'm getting Snowden to forward it to Greenwald.

[sabrina 1]

27. Wow, it just gets worse with this guy doesn't it? That is straight from the Right Wing playbook

regarding African Americans. Simply NO understanding whatsoever. Btw, 'journalist'?? Sorry, but posting on the internet probably makes all of us 'journalists' some of us a whole lot better than others.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

31. I've got to disagree with you, Sabrina. He's a journalist.

I disagree with many of his utterances, and he truly is in the mold of AM radio and Fox News journalism, but he is a journalist, and a public figure. He even has his own IMDB page!

And as we all know, we are always more than welcome to link to anything and everything we want from, you know, liberal journalists. So see? He's a journalist.

[sabrina 1]

33. Well, when you put it that way!

;-0

[DisgustipatedinCA]

34. I think of it as a term of convenience.

I hope you're enjoying the weekend.

[sabrina 1]

36. I am thanks for asking. Looking forward to the debate where I expect Bernie will simply be Bernie

and millions of people who have yet to meet him, will be as excited as those who have already have.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

38. Wherever DU's servers reside, I expect that datacenter to melt on Tuesday night.

And yes, his profile should increase greatly after the first of Debbie's 6...make that 5 debates.

[sabrina 1]

41. Lol, when I saw Debbie there I was reminded of the journalist's reference to Hillary as

'Debbie Downer'. And here I thought Dems were not supposed to slam Democrats like that. I might even have been told this by the journalist himself.

And then I realized you meant DWS who is doing her part for the corporate powers who are trying to take control of our party.

[artislife]

40. He's a jewel, ain't he. nt

[TM99]

66. Well, you know that

now after 8 years, he is suddenly identifying himself as a PoC.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but that article is racist, rightwing bullshit!

[Prism]

137. That got me

He looks as white as I do (dark Irish), but now that it suits the purpose, "I, who look like a slightly weird white guy, am now a PoC!"

Jesus, that's offensive. But, whatever.

I just can't take any of the racial politics on DU seriously anymore. They've devolved into entertaining parody.

[djean111]

55. The ultimate "no-snitch group"? The fucking 1%, and most of Congress.

Leser's article is pretty much one of the most clueless and racist things I have read.

[Live and Learn]

81. I thought, at first, he was talking about the police itself from the term.

They have the ultimate no snitching on other officers code.

[djean111]

82. NO, he lumped all black neighborhoods (and people who live in them) into some sort

of lawless violent zone.
It sounds, frankly, like something Trump would spew.

[Live and Learn]

95. Very true. nt

[Chitown Kev]

141. To be fair, though

one could say that Bernie's statement about different gun control laws being needed in Vermont as opposed to a more urban setting implies pretty much the same thing.

Personally, I don't think that any of the presidential contenders will do much about this issue if elected.

[gwheezie]

149. I agree with you.

I live in a swamp in the woods. I have a shotgun in case a bobcat goes after the chickens. The problem in states that have lax gun laws is we haven't built a wall between the states to stop the flow of guns. My state supplies guns to NYC. A short run up 95 and the guns are on the street. Either we build a wall with checkpoints on the border or we have a national consensus on how to stop gun traffickers.

[SheilaT]

76. Why in the world

is that man allowed to post here?

[arcane1]

118. How dare you...

misuse the term "journalist"

[JoeyT]

128. That child molesters are included on that

kind of feels like they've never actually BEEN to a poor neighborhood with a no-snitch ethic.

No-snitch doesn't mean that all crime is ignored. It means sometimes you just have to handle your own business. I've never lived in or been to a neighborhood like that where a man trying to lure a little girl/boy into a van (Or whatever.) wouldn't just straight up get him fucking killed.

A law enforcement official in the 60 minutes segment quoted a statistic that in some African American communities, ‘No Snitching’ has contributed to reduce the rate of murders being solved to less than 10%.

Yeah, all that because of black folks not wanting to talk to cops. No way it could be because cops just straight up don't care about black folks in the first place.

[ieoeja]

187. Like so many White people, Leser did not even bother learning what "stop snitching" even meant.

Criminals routinely snitch on innocent people to buy a get-out-of-jail-free card. They snitch on innocent people because (1) the real criminals are dangerous, and (2) if they get a reputation for snitching on fellow criminals, fellow criminals will stop doing business with them.

It wasn't about the community not snitching on criminals. It was a move to get criminals to stop snitching on innocent people.

But Leser lives in a world that believes innocent people rarely go to jail.

[Ino]

13. It's called empathy...

some have it. Hillary doesn't.

[jfern]

14. It's pretty obvious Bernie is the better candidate

He's against the death penalty, massive incarceration, government surveillance of BLM, and most importantly has a racial justice platform. Anyone actually voting on the issues will vote for him.

[sabrina 1]

29. And he refuses to take money from the horrendous Private Prison Industry.

He wants it abolished, calling it a moral disgrace in our society.

[gwheezie]

16. No one running for president is owed support from blm

I have yet to hear anyone running for president who gets it. While liberal policies have superficially dealt with institutional racism no one has attempted to correct the problem white people have created for black people in this country.
I don't call any dem running for president a racist but I look at the result of liberal policies and I can't say it was white people who moved,pushed,dragged the country forward towards equality. Blacks folks did the pushing. Yes the GOP and right-wing racists would have been worse but really, this is as far as we've gotten.
Anyway when blm was angry with Bernie I never thought Hillary would be exempt. What Bernie supporters tried to do which was disingenuous was try to paint blm as Hillary shills. I said then I hope Hillary gets the same assessment as Bernie has by blm. They should continue to push their agenda on the candidates. It's insulting and tone deaf to diminish blm and other activist groups as being political hacks for their candidate.

[Number23]

18. Perfectly, wonderfully well said, wheezie

Every word.

[virtualobserver]

19. Shaun King - "I'm leaning toward endorsing Bernie Sanders."

I'm thankful that he seems to see what we see in Bernie.

[Starry Messenger]

23. Exactly, great post.

[joshcryer]

42. Bernie+BLM supporters have been saying this all along.

But a lot of people don't fucking get it.

[gwheezie]

51. Bless your heart

That is not what Bernie supporters have said all along about black lives matter but carry on.

[joshcryer]

56. Sanders "supporters" went all out against BLM.

It was a low point for DU.

Bless you.

[Fumesucker]

60. And Clinton supporters went all in on Bernie

Where is the "Not good enough Hillary!' post, eh?

[thesquanderer]

92. *Some* Sanders supporters did that. Not all. (n/t)

[roguevalley]

116. for some it was all or nothing. sadly. don't worry. blm will piss off hillary

group people and they will go bye bye too. its rather cyclic around here.

[gwheezie]

148. Well not me

I plan on voting for HRC but I don't see why blm can't be critical of her and her not have her supporters turn on blm. I'm not going to bash blm. It's not my place. I'm not black. I'm going to listen and not whitesplain who black folks should vote for. I'm going to continue to support blm and other black activist groups to continue to push the dem party to take on these issues.

[Number23]

154. I really love you

I really do.

[sheshe2]

171. No candidate

Should be exempt from questions and criticisms, thanks gwheezie. The answers are so long overdue. Everyone needs to listen, they need to listen long and hard. Then, we need action not just rhetoric.

[tblue37]

185. +1! nt

[MuseRider]

91. Well said.

This is the only way, keep pushing.

[Prism]

104. Powerful white people have the hardest time getting it

Obviously, I don't think Hillary Clinton gets it. But I think Bernie Sanders has some work to do, too.

White people grow up really almost seeing cops as allies. Not friends, exactly - especially if you're a teenager. But there's an understanding you'll only ever encounter an asshole cop at worst. He'll be a jerk. Maybe take you in and make your life difficult.

But there just isn't an expectation or allowance of the idea the cop could either A) throw you in prison for the most feather light reasons or B) get physical and then hold you responsible or C) inflict bodily harm or death if they deem you a threat.

It's not a thought in most average white people's minds. So when you're powerful, wrapping your head around that doesn't just take empathy. It takes hard, hard work.

The police are not the police to most minorities. They are The Police. And they are there to make your life miserable.

You have to cut through a bunch of rah-rah psuedo-patriotic political drivel about how cops are such heroes to really accept the ugly underbelly of law enforcement in this country.

[uponit7771]

129. +1, Any accusations that BLM is shilling for Sanders would be locked before the first response

[Chitown Kev]

146. Perfect!

[blackspade]

165. Well said.

BLM has made many illuminating statements about the systemic inequalities in our society.
Hopefully that won't stop. Our politicians feet need to be held to the fire.

[PatrickforO]

24. It is hard for someone such as I, who has enjoyed unearned privilege

all my life just because I was born male and white, to really 'get' that the police aren't trusted and in fact are seen as the enemy by many people of color. The first time I heard this was from a Hispanic professor I had in undergraduate school, and it made me feel very uncomfortable.

What's really brought it home is this reality we're seeing in this age of cell phone videos of people of color who aren't even doing anything getting beaten and killed where a white person would not even have to worry about it. I'm thinking about Sandra Bland, because I can't even imagine a cop pulling me over for not signaling, then arresting me and taking me to a jail where I get worked over and killed. Honestly, the idea that something like that could even happen to me, my wife or my children is just alien.

But if I happened to be black? or Hispanic? Yes, now I can see that.

The tragedy is that instead of taking a good honest look at what's happening, the ranks of blue are closing into a siege mentality. Cops now seem to be using more force, stomping on people until they totally submit.

This is racism at its very ugliest, and it needs to stop. Retraining, body cams, a new culture, new leadership, getting rid of the militarization. Cops don't need tanks. They just don't. They need to remember the old 'serve and protect,' because that is what they are supposed to do.

Most cops I know are OK people. The problem, I think, is leadership and culture. That's what's got to change here.

[virtualobserver]

28. I don't live in D.C., but it seemed that Police Chief Cathy Lanier.....

has tried very hard to change the culture there.

Members of the D.C. Police Union recently called for a “vote of no confidence” on her, claiming she wasn’t keeping the city safe. It is not easy to reform and also keep the troops happy.

I think that serious federal intervention is needed.

[sabrina 1]

32. The entire US police system needs reform. It is among the worst in the civilized world, the good

cops do not dare speak up or they will become targets. When an entire system backs the bad guys, and they do as we have seen every single time, even when they MURDER US citizens, you KNOW something has gone terribly wrong.

So it's imperative that everyone, who is not part of Hillary's class, stand up for AAs especially after what happened to peaceful protesters in Ferguson. It should shock the sensibilities of ALL Americans regardless of their status, to see such brutality, such militarization of our so-called Civilian Police, regardless of who they are assaulting at a particular time. Because even if for selfish reasons, once given that power, some day it will be used against THEM.

[hifiguy]

115. + a googolplex

[Indepatriot]

25. Let's be fair here. She's been under Secret Service protection for most of her adult life so

she cannot be expected to relate to what BLM is talking about regarding the police. Just like she's been insulated from every other concern that average Americans have. She IS NOT one of us, so she CANNOT know what our lives are like. That is why she is unfit to lead this nation.

[shenmue]

44. Wow

Stay classy.

[Indepatriot]

47. Enlighten me as to what I posted that is not the truth. Seriously, if you have some information that

disproves what I've posted please share it.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Don't you know?

You said mean things about Hillary so now you too are a poopy-head.

[Indepatriot]

68. I just wish that ONCE an HRC supporter would debate on policy issues and not try to personalize it.

They seem to be incapable of defending HRC's policies without throwing the "attack" card. I have nothing personal against HRC. She'd probably be a ton of fun to have dinner and drinks with. But she is the embodiment of what's wrong with the Democratic Party and our country at large. She is the WALL STREET candidate, and I will not support that.

[Le Taz Hot]

71. It's what happens to supporters who blindly support a candidate.

It's what you do when your candidates policies are indefensible -- kill the messenger. It's a stupid Level 1 diversionary tactic. It doesn't work but for some reason they keep doing it.

[questionseverything]

94. so true

25 years in a secret service bubble is a huge part of her problem....she does not "get" us

she has not seen the devastating consequences of the "additional 100,000 police" on the streets (looking for any minor crime to justify their salaries)

or the "welfare reform" bill that took away the slight safety net that young mothers had

or understand how the now shuttered factories, thanks to nafta and the wto, mean there are only entry level service jobs left and that 100s of people are competing for each one

she just doesn't SEE us

[marym625]

43. it's pretty amazing she, or anyone doesn't get it

How can anyone not get it?

#FeelTheBern
#Bernie2016

[virtualobserver]

45. When you have been preaching the "tough on crime" gospel for years and years

with "tougher sentences" and "more cops on the beat" as your go to solutions.....she is being asked to change to quite a different mindset.

[marym625]

50. good point.

One, then, might question all of that and a mindset that goes there

[senz]

52. Hillary is so clueless on these issues.

She never reacts with compassion toward the poor and people of color. In her meeting with BLM a couple of months ago, which was filmed, I thought she seemed arrogant and superior -- no warmth, none of the "charm" she shows "her" people.

Bernie has been completely supportive of AAs his entire life. As a young person he worked and marched for African American causes. As far as I know, he's the only candidate who did. As a Congressman, he was often the only white person at meetings of the Congressional Black Caucus. He is simply with them.

I am so glad that the horrible meme started by Hillary's followers did not take hold. Now I hope the many AAs who support Hillary because she's a familiar Democrat will begin to take a closer look.

[virtualobserver]

54. I hope that they do as well. It is still pretty early in the game.

[Evergreen Emerald]

88. you have no idea of Clinton's history with people of color

You are making shit up. Clinton was excellent and candid, just like the people who represented BLM. Both were honest, and not entirely accurate.

Regarding Sanders: he showed no compassion during the BLM protests. You are rewriting history.

Your superficial take on this ignores Clinton's history working to uplift people of all color.

[roguevalley]

119. on huffpost, Ann Coulter just said that Trump got mexican rapists from her.

Just an aside before I forget it.

As for bernie not showing 'compassion' during the protests, that is just wrong. He stepped aside to allow the women to speak. He has met with them and they have discussed important issues. Truly, just saying it doesn't make it true.

[senz]

125. Thanks, roguevalley

I just can't respond to that type of personal attack anymore. It's icky, smelly, and not worth it.

Amazing what Ann takes pride in!

[Evergreen Emerald]

126. you are putting lipstick on a pig

We have video.

[roguevalley]

178. I don't get this. is it meant up thread?

[Evergreen Emerald]

180. Oops

yes. sorry.

[cantbeserious]

53. Racist Or Not - HRC Is A Lackey For Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks - Police Brutality Is Not

On her radar.

[magical thyme]

57. K&R

[kelliekat44]

58. All of a sudden people here defend and support Black Lives Matter because they believe

BLM is now against Hillary???

[Fumesucker]

59. Not good enough Hillary!

I wonder where that post is?

[Bobbie Jo]

86. How soon they forget...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=_post&forum=1280&pid=27165

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=504091

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=503212

These were some of the UGLIEST threads I've ever seen here. EVER.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. Ironic that you are responding to the poster that posted this the morning after the last election:

"The openness and brazenness of the LBGT agenda and the media flaunting of gay marriages all across the country cost Dems dearly and threatens to do so in the future."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025764803#post45

That's nasty, but her cohort stands by her and they all call others nasty. It's fun to watch because I'm so brazen with my agenda, I flaunt and all that.

Buy a mirror. You know which candidate has nasty supporters? Every candidate there is or ever was, that's which candidate. It's not the candidates fault that nasty people have a franchise like the rest of us.

[Bobbie Jo]

90. Frankly

I don't care who I'm responding to, those were some of the UGLIEST comments I have ever seen here.

Period.

[Number23]

114. The ugliest threads high fived by some of the ugliest people here.

The type of people who wail about SJW's or hollered that BLM was a "pro-Hillary organization" and who now also (shockingly!!) feel a little uncomfortable in the AA forum as a result.

And that wasn't even the worst one. The worse one by far was the one with the attacks on the young, female black BLM protester. Had over 200 recs and responses, each one more disgusting than the next.

[uponit7771]

130. Yes, any indication that BLM is shilling for Sanders now would be blocked before the first reponse

[sufrommich]

65. I can't help but notice that Clinton supporters haven't spread out over the internet

attacking BLM for disagreeing with her.Bernie Sanders supporters should listen and learn.

[virtualobserver]

67. Because they know that the criticism of Hillary is correct

[sufrommich]

69. So you're saying that the nasty attacks against BLM

and lately John Lewis by Sanders supporters are justified? Do tell.

[virtualobserver]

73. in 2007-8 people were posting that John Lewis' failure to endorse Obama would make him an Uncle Tom

This "condemn the supporters" tactic may be a fun game for you, but it means nothing in terms of this election.

This is not an election between stray supporters of the two candidates. I've spent enough time on http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/ to know what unrestrained "nasty" really looks like.

[roguevalley]

120. funny how they ignore that cesspool of ugliness while they were their purity here.

amazing.

[jfern]

122. Compare to the unrestrained Bernie supporters here

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident

[Indepatriot]

70. If you have no legs to stand on for purposes of debating a candidate's policy positions, simply

go after their supporters, painting them all with a broad brush that should be reserved for the few who act at times, less than civil. Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle....

[noiretextatique]

72. I wonder how this will be spinned

Since the Clinton camp has been pushing the racist meme agsinst betnie.

[virtualobserver]

75. In the short term, I don't think that they will say anything

In the long term, if they are smart, they will listen to Shaun King and put together a comprehensive racial justice platform.

[orpupilofnature57]

77. Only 2 months ago did BLM to Hillary, when she was making deals, Bernie was being protested .

[George II]

78. I saw a couple of interviews after the meeting, "disappointed" is a mischaracterization.

NONE of those interviewed, including those cited in the article, said they were disappointed.

Sloppy, biased "journalism"!

[virtualobserver]

84. Shaun King is "unnerved".....the Daily Kos posting was about more than just that meeting

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/652550835205857280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[orpupilofnature57]

80. BLM mattered 2 months ago to Hillary avoiding being protested, everything is for effect.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

83. This is very interesting

I hope it comes up at the debates.

[Doctor_J]

97. IMO her understanding of most of the issues is weak. it traces back to her belief that this primary

was going to be a coronation. I think she didn't believe she'd be called upon to answer any issue oriented questions, and thus didn't bother to research them and form honest opinions on any of them. She also hasn't had a constituency or voted on a bill for years, so doesn't know what is happening right now.

[restorefreedom]

152. yup. exceedlingly out of touch

and does not seem to care, other than political effect

[tularetom]

162. She's making it all up as she goes, and not doing a very good job of it

She has also demonstrated extremely poor judgment in her selection of staff and spokespeople/surrogates. I believe she tends to hire people who blow smoke at her and flatter her (Sidney Blumenthal, Lanny Davis) rather than those who speak frankly, therefore she is clueless when it comes to understanding public opinion today. Which of course bodes very badly for her choice of WH staff, cabinet members, and even supreme court justices.

[Uncle Joe]

103. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, virtualobserver.

[whereisjustice]

123. Until they start dragging Goldman Sachs execs out of their limos to beat them dead...

I'm not expecting Hillary to evolve on this issue.

[Laser102]

124. I saw another rep for BLM saying something totally different on I believe it was CNN.

He said they had a good discussion and they shared some ideas that might help. He didn't say she didn't get them. He was very positive about it. Interesting. I guess it depends on who your talking to.

[uponit7771]

132. There are many BLM reps, the fact that one of them leans Sanders now is a big deal to Sanders

... supporters but as soon as the majority lean the other way.. if they do... they'll be called shills for Hillary


again

[Number23]

135. You nailed it.

[NonMetro]

156. Who Is BLM?

Seriously, anyone can claim to represent them. I read one of the "activists" who disrupted the Sanders campaign a while back was a tea party activist a few years ago. There is no organization to BLM. It's kind of like a ship where anyone can take the helm and steer it in whatever direction they want. And as to disrupting campaigns, only Democrats have been disrupted and dissed by people claiming to be BLM. As far as I know, people claiming to be BLM have never targeted Republicans, which seems strange to me since Republicans are the ones dissing BLM!

[leftofcool]

167. Hey, why don't you post this in the AA group.

They would love to hear your opinion that BLM has no leadership. They would also love to hear how you think BLM activists are members of the tea party. And by the way, BLM doesn't target Republicans because repukes don't give a shit about Black lives. Get it? Sheesh!

[NonMetro]

173. It Was This One: Marissa Johnson, One Of The Ones Who Disrupted Sanders In Seattle

"She said on the panel and other occasions that she grew up in Louisiana as the child of “prayer warriors” and tea-party supporters. Their political beliefs perhaps influenced her high-school support of Sarah Palin, which she spoke about in an interview with black radio station TWiB. But clearly she grew to question aspects of her background."

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/marissa-johnson-a-generation-of-activists-who-believe-in-disruption/

See this:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-event-shut-down-black-lives-matter-activists

And this:

"....The Black Lives Matter movement is very loosely structured without a central organization. That provides freedom to activists and supporters, but it means that BLM is also vulnerable to groups who may wish to co-opt their national reputation, as occurred on Saturday. Adding to the confusion is the fact that there are many groups who use black lives matter as a rallying call."

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/08/10/real-black-lives-matter-wsnts-activists-publicly-apologize-bernie-sanders.html

[DonCoquixote]

131. I hate to sound mean

Especially since BLM, for all the sound an fury hurled at them, is doing the nation and world an important service. If we avoid becoming a sewer, they will deserve a lot of credit.

However, did they really think Hillary was going to yield one half millimeter of privilege? Even though she was more than happy to enjoy Bernie get knocked down, and even though many of her supporters pilloried Bernie like he was George Wallace, did BLm reallye xpect someone who has benefited from the prison industry to see the light? This is someone who has shown she will GLADLY exploit prejudice to get her way.

And for the other side of the aisle groaning, let me offer something Hillary could have and should have said.

"I realize that during the 2008 campaign, some of my supporters said things that were hurtful. Regardless of how nasty politics can be, there were some lines that shoul,d not be crossed, and they got crossed, so I hereby apologize for the fact that people in my name said the sort of hurtful things that we would rightfully condemn or opponents for saying."

And there would be cheering, especially if she followed that up with a trip to Ms. Oprah Winfrey, at which point it would be almost impossible to stop her.

[Chitown Kev]

143. I like this

"I realize that during the 2008 campaign, some of my supporters said things that were hurtful. Regardless of how nasty politics can be, there were some lines that should not be crossed, and they got crossed, so I hereby apologize for the fact that people in my name said the sort of hurtful things that we would rightfully condemn or opponents for saying."

Unless Hillary Clinton actually says words to this effect, the most that she'll get from me is a tepid vote for her election on November 8, 2016 if she wins the nomination.

[tularetom]

163. Except that one of the supporters that said hurtful things in her name in 2008

was former president Bill X Clinton.

[DonCoquixote]

168. and that gives him a pass because?

If anything, he should be able to say a few things to make amends.

[tularetom]

175. One would hope he would be man enough to do that but I doubt he is

and I also doubt that she will put any pressure on him to do it. Or even say anything that would call attention to his borderline racist comments.

[jberryhill]

136. .

[blackspade]

139. You would have to be a fool to think that you were safe around police.

Especially if you are a person of color, or poor, or have a mental illness.

[DrBulldog]

161. Yes, everyone should go read Bernie's Racial Justice platform at berniesanders.com.

I was amazed how thorough and complete was his explanation of ALL the directly-related issues.

Then go read Hillary's platform on this topic and compare . . . ha, just kidding, she doesn't even have one!

[Romulox]

182. Where are the Hillary "doesn't get the social!1!1!!1" posters gone?

You know, the white "centrist" Hillary supporters for whom BLM was a top issue, a few weeks ago?

[JRLeft]

183. I'm a Bernie supporter and I don't think Hillary is racist, but she lives in a bubble.

She doesn't understand. She can be informed on this issue.