2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders calls for single payer and an end to private prisons.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711http://www.benningtonbanner.com/localnews/ci_24567489/new-study-vermont-ships-inmates-profit-private-prisons
A fighter who will use the bully pulpit. #FeelTheBern
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)What should Bernie have done as a US Senator in your opinion?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)But in my opinion: something?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I will give your unbiased flatlander's opinion about what Senator Sanders should have done in my home state all of the serious consideration it deserves.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I'm actually posing this question because perhaps someone can offer info as to something that actually was done. A letter to the governor? An editorial op ed in local news? A speech to state legislators?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You said he didn't do enough, what should the senator have done?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)And since I don't follow Vermont politics, and since you probably do being you're from there, perhaps you can provide some additional info as to what if any actions were taken?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Honestly I think exploiting the issues your candidate is weakest on is a bad move but please proceed.
This is fascinating.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nothing could have been done, or no opinion either way?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You should concentrate on trying to dig your way out of this op.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Just like he's done so many times in Vermont.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)State government vs federal government can be confusing for many.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I posted 2 articles.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)about Bernie's home state running counter to his position on those two issues.
Then you posted this as a form of sarcastic attack against Bernie.
"A fighter who will use the bully pulpit. #FeelTheBern"
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Please accept my apology for such an insulting op.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Peace to you, JaneyVee.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If only they would look at their candidate's position first they'd realize how absurd it is.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)just placing links and ad hominem attacks.
Such as
The sense of betrayal from single-payers most passionate advocates after Shumlins announcement was palpable, particularly as he had tied his own political persona to the idea. It is time to put the interests of patients first, ahead of political expedience, said Andrew Coates, president of Physicians for a National Health Care Program. Single-payer is the only reform that will cover everyone, save lives and save money. Mr. Shumlin, of all our nations governors, knows this well.
Vermonts public failure is especially frustrating to single-payer advocates because, they note, the Shumlin framework, which had gotten approval of the state legislature minus that key financing element, wasnt really a true single-payer plan. Notably, large businesses that operate in multiple states would have been exempt. And it was unclear whether or how enrollees in federal plans like Medicare and TRICARE could be integrated into the states plan.
Those exemptions cut into the funding base while adding administrative complexity, eliminating one of the potential cost-saving elements of single-payer: simplicity.
There are some practical problems in the idea of state-based policy, Coates said, acknowledging the huge federal role in financing and regulating health care.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711#ixzz3oIO9WmEt
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There's a reason why Vermonters hate Shumlin and love Bernie but only a person who really wanted to learn about Vermont politics instead of dabbling and playing Palin style gotcha games would understand.
Thanks for the context but I fear it will be wasted on the op.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Has he used his popularity to do anything about these issues?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You still haven't specified what he should have done.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)At least an op-ed in Vermont newspapers. Anything?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The hillarians fling poop, not answer questions
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)These had nothing to do with Bernie and he is right in his determination to do so across the US.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Question someone's intellect while providing nothing of substance. Like the posters above who think I'm a "misguided economist" who is confused about how govt works.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Bernie Sanders is a US senator for the state of Vermont. However you are trying to pin to him issues pertaining to the executive offices within that state - the Governor and Attorney general, respectively (or, since the AG answers to the governor, just the Governor) This is missing of course that Sanders has no say in what happens at that level, in that branch. It's the same thign as if you had tried to hold Barack Obama responsible for something the mayor of Chicago did or did not do.
Anyone with even a basic grasp of civics wound understand that this is an outright farcical argument.
You are not providing anything of substance. You are presenting a very silly non-point that deserves all the mockery it's getting. Sorry JaneyVee, but you bring it on yourself.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)My question above was: What, if any, actions has he taken to stand up and fight for or against these in his home state? I don't follow Vermont politics and perhaps there were actions taken on Bernie's behalf.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And it's silly as all get-out.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Ok, good talk.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)You're expecting more from responders than you yourself are willing to offer.
Response to JaneyVee (Original post)
postatomic This message was self-deleted by its author.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)That's not a problem at all, and I'm glad you reached out, because there's help. This will get you started:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)He did become a Democrat, didn't he?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)who wants to become an ordinary U.S. President. Is that the idea?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Perhaps you can enlighten us since the op is struggling.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Run for president in a party he's never been a member of? Am I getting warmer?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I take it back, that video can't help you.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And why would my Senator need to learn the difference between the branches?
Are you implying that you're more knowledgeable about government because Bernie opposed the TPP and you didn't?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Me being confused about how govt works. Even though my op says "bully pulpit". Anything?
artislife
(9,497 posts)The first link is why single payer failed in Vermont written in 2014. This is my opinion, but when President Obama settled for the ACA, it was with the idea that it would be a stepping stone to single payer down the line. 2014 wasn't down the line enough.
I think as we approach open enrollment on the ACA for the 3rd time, people are starting to realize how bigger companies have an unfair advantage in attracting and keeping the best qualified workers. They alone can afford to offer the best medical benefit packages to their workers. Now that small businesses must offer medical, they see how not being able to pool the workforce nationwide but only with their small numbers is really very costly. I always thought it was one way the larger corporations had a steady stream of indentured servants. Someone in the family needed that job so the family could be covered for a price they could afford, allowing the other spouse to have the more fun job with no benefits.
So people, small business and others are getting pissed at insurance companies who are dropping policies, moving out of state etc. What should be starting to become obvious that the problem isn't that everyone needs to be insured, is that the insurance companies make their own rules and regulations. They are the ones manipulating the costs and the benefit packages. They are the truly evil entities. This should lead people to the idea that if we had single payer, there would be no in or out of network bs, no silver level v gold level (sure there would still probably be medical insurance you could buy for add ons like elective plastic surgery etc)
So while in 2014, Vermont failed, I would say that if in the next few years it or any other state were to try, there would be far more people on board.
840high
(17,196 posts)thesquanderer
(11,989 posts)So then I think the answer to your question is that a President has a huge bully pulpit. A senator, no. The nearest equivalent pulpit for a state is not a senator, but the governor. And remember even in terms of being a senator, BS was not a State Senator (i.e. one that would have some political relationship to the governor or state laws), but rather a U.S. Senator. As a rule, U.S. Senators don't tend to get involved in state politics.
Though when it comes to single payer, a quick google search did turn up that, at the time, BS was trying to win support for a federal version of what Vermont was trying to do on the state level (the federal level being, well, where his job was, and the place where his pulpit--small as it might be--actually was).
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/10/healthcare-congress (from 2011)
And there's this:
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/a-single-payer-system-makes-economic-sense (from 2013)
I think it's safe to say that Bernie Sanders' support for single payer was probably well known in Vermont.
And, btw, according to the article you linked to it, Vermont's governor was indeed bully-pulpit pushing for it... in fact, he actually almost got it implemented, but ultimately wasn't able to get the economics of it to work and had to abandon it. There's nothing BS could have done to help unless he had come up with a way to finance it. Which, come to think of it, is, in a sense, was what he was trying to do, by laying groundwork to ultimately try to get it implemented on a federal level.