William Pitt stated:

[marym625]

Last edited Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:48 AM - Edit history (2)

So, yeah, Hillary Clinton voted for the PATRIOT Act. She voted for war in Iraq. She labored hammer and tong to bring the TPP and the Keystone pipeline to fruition, despite her recent happy talk to the contrary. Her biggest donors are the Wall Street brigands who stole our future. That = wrong on personal freedoms, wrong on unjust war, wrong on the environment, wrong on trade, and wrong on economic justice.

Remember that when you watch the debate tonight ... but enjoy watching one of the consummate bullshit artists of our time do her thing. A talent as rare as hers does not come along very often.

Luckily, the country wasn't buying it from the supposed front runner

Edited to add more polls from another DU post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128062060



Edited to add MSNBC poll for those who can't tell the difference between MSNBC and Fox news. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-who-do-you-think-won-the-first-democratic-debate

At this time, it's still Sanders 83% 10:47pm PDT.
#FeelTheBern
#Bernie2016
#debatewithBernie

[grasswire]

1. thank you

I miss Will Pitt.

[marym625]

5. me too!

He just rocks!

[BeanMusical]

68. +1

[sabrina 1]

117. Me too, but like so many other great DUers, he has a far bigger audience on the New Media.

[marym625]

118. yep.

[senz]

38. Wish I'd been around when he posted here.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Yes, I disagree with her on those issues, but

...I was impressed with her smoothness tonight.

She was smoother tonight than during any of the 2008 primary debates which I watched.

[marym625]

8. yes, she was

But I also thought she sounded very rehearsed. A couple times she was funny. I'll give her that.

The one, very important issue for me, that Will forgot is No Child Left Behind. A horrible, atrocious thing

[glinda]

20. What she and her handlers know are that there are many many and I mean "many" people

in this Country who do not research things or maybe only watch the debates if even. They know this. And those people in this great and not so great Country of ours, will cast their vote for many a not well well searched reason or because they think something is inevitable or for whatever reason. This will be a huge battle. Man I hate the word "huge" these days.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

30. Getting to the reality is hard. n/t

[marym625]

44. Absolutely

But I think all the candidates did better at spelling out their plans than she did. She just referred to her plans, repeatedly. That's with the time they were given, obviously.

I honestly felt she sounded too rehearsed most of the time. But, I do think she did better than in the past and had a couple of good moments

[erronis]

96. They've made great strides in robotics, recently...

Whoops, another jury decision coming.

[marym625]

100. Bawhahaha!

[glinda]

108. For some it was "time taken". I listened again to some of the debate today and

geeze........

[marym625]

112. you mean how long she took after being told to shush?

I was really surprised at how much leeway she was given but not at her feeling of entitlement.

[glinda]

119. Yes. Cooper cut others off sometimes before they even finished their sentences.

[marym625]

120. yep

No favoritism there. Just the usual bowing to the Queen apparent.

[delrem]

47. oh bloody mary but was she managed!

It even seemed somewhat credible, tho' holy fuckin gawd it was also like being in a live-stream cartoon.
The credibility was that fragile.

On the other hand I thought the Dems put on a bloody good show. They hammered the Republicans, just fucking hammered them. And they did this together.

[marym625]

52. that they did! Hammered!

Lol! Yeah, handled to the point of unbelievability

[tritsofme]

3. Who?

[tritsofme]

22. Doesn't he have a new book coming out soon?

Like in the next 24 business hours?

[tritsofme]

28. Well you're the one that called him a nobody.

Can't say I disagree.

[BeanMusical]

76. +1000

[FlatBaroque]

83. I highly recommend this post. nt

[tritsofme]

86. Say what you will about me, but that's not a very nice thing to say

about your old friend Will!

[SammyWinstonJack]

95. ^5

[99th_Monkey]

4. But, but .. she 'looked so presidential' .. at that podium squarely in the middle

right where M$M's darling CNN put her.

[marym625]

9. HEE HEE!

[Eleanors38]

87. Even NPR, which leans (collapses?) toward Hillary, didn't sound that convincing...

beyond the so-called "polished," "presidential" stuff." There was some discussion about Bernie cupping his ear and "looking old." Even NPR's favorite issue of gun-control got short shrift by the Beltway Bandit commentators; seems Hillary's attack fell short of the target. Dull stuff, too much dated "cool medium" t.v. talk.

Curiously, they said a high point was when Sanders cut in and said the public was "sick and tired of the email" talk, but wanted to hear about issues.

[jwirr]

97. Someone should have told them that you do not have to be

old to have hearing problems.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

102. Mrs. Wall Street was nicely coiffured

did you listen how she scolded those naughty boys on Wall Street?

[JDPriestly]

6. It was a cordial, great debate, but back on planet earth, William Pitt is probably

right.

Bernie would make a great president.

He took the lead tonight and lead to harmony and a really great sense of teamwork.

I was so proud of him tonight.

What a great man. He is just naturally so great.

He has a good heart.

[marym625]

10. well said

And I completely agree

[99th_Monkey]

14. Speaking of hearts

you are speaking mine.

[zentrum]

58. ^This^

[jwirr]

99. He took control and led to harmony. Presidential in other words.

[olddots]

7. I too miss Will Pitt

he is a true critical critical thinker .

[marym625]

12. yep. great loss to DU

[Enthusiast]

33. Me too.

[rhett o rick]

90. We've lost a number of great independent thinkers, run off by those that fear

open and free discussions. Those that push the alert button every time they see something that they disagree with. They are not Democrats.

[mythology]

94. He was in no way a critical thinker

He's bombastic, loud and relies on emotional appeals rather than anything that should be mistaken for critical thought. He sent obscenities at those he disagreed with and threatened another DUer with physical harm.

That's not counting his high profile blunders like a Cheney indictment or Obama is a piece of shit used car salesman.

Letting one's mouth get ahead of reason is hardly a sign of critical thinking. I get why people like him, but it's because he says what some people want to hear and it gets them riled up, but so does Bill O'Reilly. Pitt was regularly short on facts and deliberation.

[Sheepshank]

116. Dose of reality

Well needed.

[chillfactor]

11. personally...

i never read his posts......they are too hate-filled for me

[Gloria]

13. Hey, Pitt...

Just the same old simplistic laundry list...

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. Man, I miss him here.

I agree with everything he said. DU lost a GREAT progressive.

[marym625]

17. Absolutely!

Great loss to DU

[hifiguy]

89. indeed. I really miss Will.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. "Talented bullshit artist..." Erm, but not a quitter

[marym625]

37. Absolutely not a quitter

She just comes back almost saying what she thinks everyone wants to hear.

[m-lekktor]

82. unfortunately. nt

[lovemydog]

19. I disagree with this

and pretty much disagree with most everything he says. He exaggerates the differences between the democratic candidates and shows far too much vitriol toward both President Obama and Secretary Clinton, imho.

[marym625]

24. As much as I respect you, I completely agree with Mr. Pitt

I do appreciate your responding.

[lovemydog]

60. Thanks marym625.

I respect you too.

[marym625]

63. Thank you

[Skittles]

57. that's what happens when they get what they deserve

yup

[lovemydog]

64. Well, I still like you Skittles.

[BeanMusical]

78. +1

[R B Garr]

21. Will got played I watched that poll get

Slammed with disagree votes before she started speaking. Proof the Bernistas believe their own spam games. Its pretty funny to watch.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. They're all gonna swear it's election fraud when the votes come in

I've never seen a group believe it's own hype to this degree, and we all saw the Romney campaign unfold. It's Cloud Cuckoo Land.

[R B Garr]

27. Exactly, very well said

[Admiral Loinpresser]

34. Yes, here in Cuckoo Land we believe

that Business As Usual politicians are killing the planet. We are so delusional.

[Yallow]

41. Wall Street First

The rest of us, and our planet don't even count.

Bernie is the answer.

Not another corporate puppet.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

45. +1,000 n/t

[tritsofme]

36. Oh god, this didn't even occur to me.

But yes, those posts are inevitable.

[BeanMusical]

81. Watching you projecting so much is amusing.

According to a hot national political pundit, 85% of DUers are Bernie supporters. So all these people are insane and always wrong while the tiny 10% that's left (there must be some undecided and other candidates' supporters, no?) are rational and always right. You know, a psychiatrist looking at these numbers would rapidly identify which group is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Hot national political pundit's estimate of Bernie supporters on DU (who of course control the juries!):

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24930

[Number23]

103. Now THAT'S pretty damn interesting

get Slammed with disagree votes before she started speaking.

Now that's something. Before the debate even got started a newsreader on the "left leaning" ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) described the debate as "Hillary Clinton versus a bunch of nobodies" so I'm pretty sure she would have declared Clinton the victor.

All this does is prove that people will see exactly what they want and that anyone that thinks an Internet poll means more than a cup of hot tinkle is just showing how naive they are.

[uppityperson]

23. Where did he state that at? Thanks for providing a link.

[ChiciB1]

29. Yep, People's Eyes Are Just Beginning To Open Up!

I think he's gathering steam as his train rolls down the track.

[marym625]

32. +100

[Enthusiast]

31. Kicked and recommended!

[marym625]

39. Thank you, Enthusiast!

#FeelTheBern

[senz]

35. Thanks, marym and thanks to Will Pitt.

I was slightly surprised by MSNBC's fawning over her and very surprised that some DU Bernie supporters got soft on her. Sure she smiled a lot and seemed mellow -- but there was not one bit of passion, of conviction, in anything she said, and as I've mentioned elsewhere, I thought her body language while Bernie was speaking gave off a distinctly amused, superior air. It's really important to keep in mind who she is, who her sponsors are, what kind of organization she runs, and what she actually stands for.

I don't want a smooth talker for president. I want a real, sincere person who cares about the American people first and foremost.

[marym625]

40. last I checked the MSNBC poll,

Just a couple minutes ago, Bernie was at 83% and Hillary at 13%

#FeelTheBern

[senz]

46. Yes, good example of corporation vs. people.

By "fawning," I was referring to the talking heads who work for the network.

[marym625]

51. Ah!

Yes, they sure are!

[sheshe2]

53. care to post a link?

I typed in MSNBC and got this.

Fox5 News

http://fox5sandiego.com/2015/10/13/poll-who-won-the-cnn-democratic-debate/

Where is your link to MSNBC?

[zentrum]

59. That gap--

Last edited Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:42 AM - Edit history (1)

—of him in the 80's and her in the teens, is the same on many polls. CNN, TIME, FOX, SLATE to name a few.

[marym625]

62. I haven't seen a single poll showing she won.

And I've looked

[zentrum]

71. Yup. The media is

….is in shock.

[marym625]

74. I'm not!

Not even a little bit

[zentrum]

92. I am.

I've sort of stopped trusting the electorate after we lost Congress to so many Baggers after the midterms.

[marym625]

105. well,,there is that.

At least people are now completely fed up. That's what seems to get people moving. Unfortunately, too many just gave up. But Sanders is giving us hope

[aikanae]

42. Of course they are going for Clinton

Clinton has the establishment numbers, from Congress, from business, from DNC, and from name recognition. She's been in the whitehouse before and wasn't just a figurehead. She's delivered some outstanding on the fly speeches in hearings. In a typical election year she'd have this sewn up.

Sanders is an unexpected abnormality. Where was he 15 years ago? It's hard to believe it's taken that much time for the public to demand change enough to show up and vote for it.

That's what this election will come down to. Which one can get the voters involved? Sanders had an exceptionally strong showing. I think they both did well sticking to issues and not surrendering to personal frivolous attacks.

Sanders is now mainstream and that maybe the biggest win of all.

[senz]

48. Yes, he introduced himself - and his issues -- to a wider audience.

That's a win.

[marym625]

49. I agree they all did well at staying away from personal attacks

Bernie has been around for decades fighting the good fight. I'm really surprised anyone doesn't know him. Or didn't before he announced. But, I'm a political junkie

[AtomicKitten]

43. k&r thanks for posting - hey to Will.

[marym625]

50. Thanks AK!

#FeelTheBern

[Todays_Illusion]

54. Thanks William Pitt, Hillary was good, and you are correct. There is this about O'Malley

I think he is one of those stealth lefty libertarians, one reason from tonight, our very libertarian CNN has/had a web page feature of his debate performance. Ted Turner, CNN founder, libertarian and CNN remains libertarian.

CNN loves O'Malley, but generally hates Democratic.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/politics/omalley-clinton-iraq-libya-foreign-policy/index.html

[marym625]

55. I like O'Malley

If Sanders wasn't running, I would probably go with O'Malley.

Yeah, CNN is hardly a liberal bastion

[FSogol]

84. "stealth lefty libertarians"

You spelled "delusion" wrong.

[merrily]

61. Still 83% now. But Hillary can hire lots of clicks.

[marym625]

65. I'm sure that's why they wanted to have the link

Heehee

[merrily]

67. It's true of any click poll. But, maybe--I hope--she won't, given she got caught buying facebook

likes.

[marym625]

69. oh my!

I didn't know that. I'm truly surprised. I wouldn't have thought she would have to

[merrily]

70. It's the enthusiasm gap everyone has been talking about. The reason I was surprised

was that Gingrich got caught.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3hwa7h/hillarys_campaign_is_aggressively_buying_fb_likes/

Something like two million twitter followers, too, more than anyone, supposedly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3gla1e/hillary_clinton_under_fire_for_buying_2_million/

These are things Maddow and Slate are never going to report.

[marym625]

73. sadly, that's true

I wish Greg Palast could clone himself.

[merrily]

75. That is why I resist knee jerk, mindless source shaming. Well, it may not be mindless.

"If you don't like the news, kill the messenger" has a dumbass, yet very long history.

[marym625]

79. +10000

[merrily]

66. What kind of question is, "She said she was sorry for her Iraq War vote. Why isn't that enough?"

O'Malley was smart enough to say Americans were duped into going along with that war. Chafee did say that it was the worst decision in the history of the US. I am not smart enough to know if I would go that far. But it sure is up there.

But no one has the guts to say, sorry doesn't resurrect the dead for the grieving or make the physically and emotionally injured whole--it only makes them feel worse? Sorry doesn't help the millions of Iraqis who were displaced or restore the virginity of the children they sold. Sorry doesn't restore trillions to the US Treasury. Sorry doesn't re-stablize the Middle East. Sorry isn't going to get my vote for CIC.

[marym625]

72. + a bazillion

When we knew the truth, she had to. Absolutely had to. And we all knew bush and Cheney couldn't be trusted.

That vote was about money for the voter, and for the voters, only about the money and nothing else. Fuck the troops. Fuck the Iraqi people. Fuck the American people.

And she didn't apologise. She said she was wrong but not she was sorry

[merrily]

77. When I heard about that, I tried to imagine being the spouse or parent of someone who died because

of that war.

True, her vote was not the deciding one. However, she made a speech urging her fellow Senators to vote for that war and that speech was carried on national TV. Did it sway anyone? Well, she claims she knows how to get things done. Maybe she can't have it both ways. Besides, that speech was more for viewers than for legislators. It was part of the effort to sell average Americans on that invasion, much like Powell's speech to the UN.

Anyway, if I had been a survivor or someone who lost a leg or my mind, I might have thrown a shoe.

[marym625]

80. I have family that went and suffered greatly.

Not physically as much as mentally, but severely in a couple cases.

I won't say what i would like to do to those responsible

Notice how she talked about wall street bankers not going to jail but NOTHING about those that lied us into an illegal war going to jail.

[LexVegas]

85. Who the hell is that? nt.

[Nye Bevan]

88. William Pitt was *much* more forgiving about Kerry voting for the Iraq War Resolution:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x467606

[kelliekat44]

93. And all the others. And that makes me believe that Hillary will be more reluctant to go to war

based on her past experience with that. Bernie voted against the war...being against war is always easier than being for war. But will a Bernie think differently as Commander In Chief? Well, ask Obama. Reality has a way of smacking your face.

[colsohlibgal]

91. Scarlet Letter

Hillary has been wrong about a lot but saying I was wrong about her Iraq vote just does not excuse it. It was an enabler for an action that killed or maimed so, so many, will cost us many trillions, and begat ISIS. She either believed the nonsense reasons of the Bushies or she was too much of a coward to vote no. It cost her in 2008 and it is still there.

[marym625]

101. couldn't agree more

No excuse. None. Nada.

[SidDithers]

98. ...

Sid

[delrem]

104. I had to turn the sound off for some seconds to catch my breath

at this point:

"CLINTON: Well, that — that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. When we met in Copenhagen in 2009 and, literally, President Obama and I were hunting for the Chinese, going throughout this huge convention center, because we knew we had to get them to agree to something. Because there will be no effective efforts against climate change unless China and India join with the rest of the world.

They told us they’d left for the airport; we found out they were having a secret meeting. We marched up, we broke in, we said, “We’ve been looking all over for you. Let’s sit down and talk about what we need to do.” And we did come up with the first international agreement that China has signed.

Thanks to President Obama’s leadership, it’s now gone much further."
__________________________
My lord, the concentration of self-aggrandizement and arrogance is astounding.
(I bet the Chinese just *loved* hearing her total disrespect, her imperial disdain)
And SCARY.
This of course reminded me of her "running across the airfield under sniper fire" bullshit, but it's more than that. It's pathological when combined with her drive for the presidency (which she equates with "president of the world&quot and for absolute power.
Just scary. I so dread the future of the world, with the US swinging between Hillary Clinton's insanity and Donald Trump's venality for leadership, and with the bar so low Idiocracy can't even catch it.

A Hillary Clinton presidency will mean WAR, and such a scary turn to the right I don't like to think about it.

[marym625]

106. yeah, I watched at a bar Bernie debate party,

That one drew quite the reaction.

My tweet at that point..

https://mobile.twitter.com/LiberalHDWoman/status/654124955202748416

#Hillary hunts Chinese? Do they get weapons too? Or is like cops hunting Black Americans?

[delrem]

107. Imagine if Xi Jinping said something like that about how he schooled the USA.

Imagine the reaction in the USA.
Now imagine if Xi Jinping followed up by attempting to begin negotiations with the USA on ANYTHING, after showing himself to be such an outrageous boor.

[marym625]

111. she is a determinant to our safety.

And she has been since she first took office

[AzDar]

109. Hillary=WRONG.

That is all.

[marym625]

113. and that is right!

[retrowire]

110. "enjoy watching one of the consummate bullshit artists of our time do her thing."

Come join my thread where I seek an understanding of one of her most confusing answers in the debate. I have yet to receive a good explanation of why she dodged this very important question, "Do you change your political identity based on who you're talking to?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251682637

I've already been accused of being simple minded, thinking in black and white and using a right winger thought process because I demand a bit more detail in her answering of this question. :/ As democrats, I think we should hold our candidates accountable for critical thinking and honesty.

[marym625]

114. if you're asking me

I will in a bit. Happy to and thank you. I'm rewatching the debate. Was at a bar so missed a few minutes.

If you're asking Will, uhm, I believe he wouldn't mind my saying, nope. Sorry

[retrowire]

115. Oh, no worries, I'm only asking hillary supporters to figure it out.

I sure can't. If you can, then feel free to!