2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders’ supporters could doom his campaign
Most folks who will vote in the primary already have a history of voting. A well-run campaign would start from a list of registered Democrats who have voted before. Signing up new voters is good, but it is a lower-yield endeavor. The core task is to deliver Sanders message in person to folks who are likely to vote, exactly as Sanders has done himself for decades.
As time passed, the size of the group grew, but its sophistication did not. They identified seven action areas, none of which would have supporters leaving their comfort zone to speak face-to-face with likely voters who might disagree with them. Is their desire to see Sanders elected enough to get them to cut their hair, shave their beards, dress neatly and master talking points? They will do street theater, and some will write letters to the editor. But going door-to-door or cold-calling Democrats is absent from their agenda.
For $76, I purchased the Lane County voter rolls with voters history of participation and wrote a program to generate walking lists that Sanders supporters could use to visit likely Democratic voters. It appears I wasted my time and money.
The local Sanders group behaves like a protest movement. This is not surprising, because before Sanders entered the race many of these folks viewed electoral politics as evil. I recognize some of them from the Occupy movement. Others are young and new to this. Sadly, the group operates in a hermetically sealed bubble, rejecting experience, expertise and education. This behavior crippled Occupy, which failed to expand its ranks or to effect significant and lasting change.
For example, street theater, which is popular with alternative types, is a negative for many people who vote. Their announcements say to go to Facebook to find meeting times and locations. Folks with a history of voting tend not to frequent Facebook. As with Occupy, many people are unlikely to function well in a group where meeting dynamics dominate over productive work. Many who might contribute turn away or are turned away.
If other Sanders groups around the country are similar, he has no chance. If, like Sanders, these groups go door-to-door to communicate the candidates message to voters, President Bernie is a real possibility.
http://registerguard.com/rg/opinion/33627704-78/sanders-supporters-could-doom-his-campaign.html.csp
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)if he had no support!
jkbRN
(850 posts)and obviously false. Nice try, though! So, really who has the disrespectful supporters? In this case, it's whoever you support.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)Something that contradicts this account?
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)I get a kick out of the 1%ers for Clinton demeaning American Voters who want
Senator Sanders to be President...
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)He was jailed for filming violent police and lost his job.He spent months doing relief work after Sandy. Anyone who denigrates OWS as the author does can eat shit.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)offering free health care services weekly and dental clinics four times a year.
http://eugenedailynews.com/2012/07/occupy-eugene-medical-clinic-serves-low-income-families-and-homeless/
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I think this is good advice.
Other stuff can be added, of course, but what the excerpt quoted here says is politics 101.
I'll take it to heart in my area.
Although upon repeat reading the tone is a bit condescending.
Still, good ideas are where you find them.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Seriously?
Those whacky kids and their Facebook again?
aidbo
(2,328 posts)..and it's hard for folks of certain ages to keep up sometimes. I know I sure can't keep up with what's cool to the kids today.
But even I know Facebook is losing young people as active users. I never got in to Facebook, nor MySpace when it was big, both of my parents are very active on it, though.
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)BainsBane
(53,041 posts)and reach out to voters.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Caucuses and primaries are won and lost on how well the campaign does "retail politics".
Given the responses of Sanders supporters on this thread, his campaign was doomed long ago.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I hope there is a different "retail politics" this cycle. I think there will be if young people do their version of retail politics. Provided it involves turning out voters and getting the votes counted.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I am in contact with a lot of young people. They are almost all for Bernie, enthusiastically. If the campaign recognizes that and can harness it, done deal.
Except, of course, for the election-stealing mechanism put in place by good ol' HAVA.....
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)The mechanism is in place, no doubt.
Didn't say I thought it meant Bernie would lose.
Obama won in spite of it.
But it is there.
Anyone interested in reviving the ER news forum? I'd be happy to cover a day.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It's an internet myth.
The true problems lie with legal attempts to stop people from voting such as Voter ID laws as implemented in Alabama.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Trust computers (programmed by people), do you?
One word. Volkswagen.
I didn't know you before this interchange, so I can't say you lost credibility with me that you never had a chance to have, but I will say that I feel you can't have done much research on election fraud.
Especially via electronic voting machines. IMHO, HAVA was a planned scam. Poor ol' Rush Holt, dupe.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Words fail me. Copying this so I can journal it.
I am a computer professional.
That means I know they are programmed by humans.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)As someone who works in networking and programming I about fell out of my seat when I read that one.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Please read #37. nt
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Why is it businesses and the government have to have hard copies of everything for liability reasons and yet we leave the most important part of our democracy up to computer integrity? That fact alone should sound off loud bells that something isn't on the level, even if we could ignore all the data discrepancies (which stand out and scream to anyone with a programming background, much less a math background).
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You cannot because there are none.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)but it's pretty well documented that the potential is there. As well as the potential to hide tracks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting#Documented_problems
http://www.rense.com/general74/expert.htm
Can't find the exact quote, but someone said something like, "If you have to be a technical expert to understand the voting process, the process is flawed."
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I could potentially gain access to your bank account and drain every penny you have. It does not mean I have done so or will do so.
No system is 100% safe, including paper ballots.
But like cases of people defrauding the election process by pretending to be somebody they aren't, it simply does not happen.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)on machines with no paper trails.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Neither happen in reality.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)One is retail, the other wholesale.
Voter fraud, which, as you say, pretty much doesn't exist. Not enough profit for the trouble.
ELECTION fraud?
That's another kettle of fish.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I refuse to don a tinfoil hat.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Or not, given my theory.
Retail: One-person-at-a-time voter fraud. Hardly worth the trouble.
Wholesale: Steal via computer, much more than one vote at a time possible, and how many will understand how it could be done, or care?
If it can't be documented and understood by the average voter, it needs to go.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)actually the correct term would be election fraud. The voter has little to do with what happens after they vote.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7001
posted here back in 2009
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3791464
You second case is also false. We had a voter here vote absentee using his daughters credentials. It is very rare but it does happen. News 21 looked into it and found ten cases.
http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Bradblog is devoted to selling the conspiracy theory. HYou cited them, and then a DU post linking to them.
That's phoney baloney bullshit. Get a real source.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Is the Federal District court in on the scam as well?
http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2009/03/19/17/clayindict.source.prod_affiliate.79.pdf
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Why do you trust Diebold more that you trust Volkswagen?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Biogus internet conspiracy theories about voter fraud never pan out in the real world.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)RichVRichV
(885 posts)We need to have a nationwide review of all electronic voting machines. If there's really nothing wrong then there shouldn't be any need to hide them. They should be extensively and independently reviewed after every election. And I'm not just talking data. The source code, the assembled code, and the hashes of all the files on the machines should be reviewed to verify there has been no tampering or manipulation.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And the fact that most people would have no clue what you are saying goes to show the huge potential for hanky-panky.
Paper ballots. Hand counted at the precinct level. Watched by a webcam. Results posted on the door before the ballots leave.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'd advise backing away slowly, you can't convince some people of anything, it's not worth it.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Something has gotta be done. We should be monitored by the UN. Seriously.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Not one.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Voter fraud and election fraud. Although I do not think you are really confused. You remind me of our (TX) governor. If that gets me a hide, so be it.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/greg-abbott-bogus-voter-fraud-crusade
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)There is not a single case of demonstrated fraud from voting machines.
Not even one.
That it happens is an internet myth.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Without a paper trail, how would one know? One wonders.
brooklynite
(94,686 posts)I know, because I've asked. ESPECIALLY in Ohio, where the allegations seem to most frequently point.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Hand counted by real people.
Results posted on the door before the ballots leave the precinct.
All this monitored by webcams. Now THERE'S a proper use of computers.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Got an ad for them on tablet. One of the better organizations.
PatrickforO
(14,586 posts)Here's a link about the voting machine scandal brewing in KS: http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article27951310.html
Here's one about the AVS Win Vote machines in use in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Mississippi: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/15/virginia-hacking-voting-machines-security
And here's one about the Diebold voting machines that can be hacked with a remote control: http://columbusfreepress.com/article/diebold-indicted-its-spectre-still-haunts-ohio-elections
Seriously, I'm kind of surprised you'd even say rigged voting machines is an 'internet myth.' It's no more a myth than the Voter ID laws you cite above. All of it is Republicans - they know people won't vote for them at all if they know what they actually stand for, so they lie and cheat to win.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'd love to put the toe of my boot where the sun don't shine.
Nah, not really. I just want Rove and his ilk to go away.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)No worries magic internet polls will save Burnie!
And stupid insulting stunts aimed at democrats, like flying a damn plane over a Hillary rally with a Bernie screed trailing behind.
That's Bernie fans! Winning hearts and minds, one arrogant insulting dumb stunt at a time!
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I guess that means Eugene and U of Oregon. You're going to experience some pretty dreamy political activity there. Having worked on some ballot measures in Oregon, I can say with confidence that Eugene is a center of unrealistic politics, populated by many people who think political action consists of smoking hemp and wearing natural fibers. There are some people there who know how to do politics the right way, but they tend to be overshadowed by the people you mention.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Oct 1st because those dreamy activists passed a ballot measure to legalize it. Makes your words here fairly amusing. Our voter turnout rates are in the high 70's and 80's. 2014 was 70% and we passed cannabis legalization, elected Peter DeFazio again and put an Equal Rights Amendment into our State's constitution. Right now we are voting on a special levy to support the Public Libraries. Very busy around here.
Occupy Eugene, criticized by the OP, continues to provide weekly free medical services from a lovely mobile clinic. Saw them just yesterday.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)kind of like Dignity Village in Portland. If this is true, kudos.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,021 posts)you could run for Congress in say 2018. I'm sure that you could bring your line of questioning to The Committee to Impeach Hillary Clinton. But you may have missed that boat already.
Oh well. Why not try a legal blog? It might catch Paul Ryan's attention.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Strange to say the least.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The Republicans never asked questions about substantial issues related to the intelligence activities and clandestine programs that led to the catastrophic result in Benghazi and the larger failure of the serial regime change operations in Libya and Syria. These hearings were a bipartisan distraction and innoculation for those involved -- particularly, Secretary Clinton. The GOP are so witless that they don't even seem to understand that they set themselves up to fail in their partisan objectives.
Not so strange.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)All the chatter on how the committee just elected Hillary President. Amazing how quickly some forget.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Your concern is noted, Joe.
davsand
(13,421 posts)New registers tend to turn out at a higher percentage to vote on election day. Did you know that?
Voters are motivated by a number of factors, but the number one thing that I think that people respond to is message the candidate delivers with word and deed. People vote for the things they understand on a personal level. They like to vote for a candidate they feel invested in. I totally get that people do not always agree with Sanders and his message, but I am hard pressed to look at too many people with any experience in actual campaign work who fail to see that a grass roots campaign can't work.
YMMV.
Laura
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And it gives me extreme optimism.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)and people on this board are over 95% likely voters-then how did Sanders take over this board as Clinton supporters claim???
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm a Bernie supporter and "turned off" by some other Bernie supporters.
I'm not turned off in the sense of letting my support for Bernie flag. Just in the sense of not being crazy about some of his "supporters."
Nothing says I have to agree with everyone.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)I'm just tired of people who claim my candidate isn't "viable" and then get angry when I state why I think he is superior to their's...
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)When I saw the listing on Greatest, I expected yet another Waaaa-Bernie's-supporters-are-mean-to-us-Waaaa from the Clinton camp. This is different, however. The linked article acknowledges that the Sanders campaign has galvanized some new activists who previously disdained electoral politics, but it cautions that they aren't adapting to this new environment. Specifically, the ones in Eugene, Oregon at least are limiting their effectiveness by not engaging in the classic GOTV operations.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)something as basic as that, why should they be counted on to have the backs of a broader base when governance is called for and the campaign banners are furled and the rallies end?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The pro-Sanders crowd in Eugene (who, of course, are probably not a representative sample) can be counted on to put in the time and effort to support their candidate. The author's criticism is that their tactical judgment is poor, in that they're putting their time and effort into things like street theater rather than canvassing.
When governance is called for, neither street theater nor canvassing will be primary.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Activists who are canvassing are canvassing for that, a current election, not for the Primary in the middle of next May, 7 months from now. It's too soon to knock on doors for candidates, in part because we are having an election right now.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)he knows better than the Sanders supporters he saw at the two meetings he went to before throwing a tantrum about not having his wide ranging experience as a paid Alan Cranston organizer recognized and lionized.
Yes, Sanders needs to GOTV. But it is much too early to knock on doors for a primary that is more than 200 days from now, especially with a different election coming up in 10 days.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)My nephew goes to U of O and he probably would not consider going door to door to sign up people to vote. But...he will use his iphone and texting to let everyone he knows that he is involved and planning on voting and hopes they will do the same. And he will use social media. It's the way the younger people connect these days.
He never even answers his phone any more, unless it's a text, so he doesn't pick up if I call him, which pisses me off.
But kids today think in conjunction with social media...and that's how they share and meet new people and reach out to old friends. And how they discuss causes and politics.
I'm not too worried about the young people this go-round, because so many of them are pretty enthused about Bernie. It's getting to the elderly people like me who don't have cell phones, can't text, don't do social media to keep in touch with anyone, and many may not even have a computer. We still need to reach those people with boots on the ground.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I will be the first to admit that Clinton's media monopoly, wall street money, gender, and career as a dc insider give her a huge advantage, but Sanders supporters have an order of magnitude more energy than the hillarians.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Response to RandySF (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Said no one ever.
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)It references creating Bernie related materials to attract new supporters.
appalachiablue
(41,168 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I like this one too:
neverforget
(9,436 posts)The rake one is great. That's GD everyday.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's why I'm limiting my exposure here.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)What planet does this idiot live on?
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)In Doc Brown's DeLorean to get here.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Astoundingly the substrate of this world is chemically indistinguishable from the excrement of the earth-ruminant Bos taurus.
Astronomy is amazing.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Well, that was rather anti-climactic.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)I blame Obama for my bad behavior.
Thanks, Obama!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fascinating.
How much brawndo does one have to drink to make such astounding leaps of logic?
djean111
(14,255 posts)Gotten predictable and trite. Yawn. Condescension disguised as concern. Been going on for quite a while.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)When real campaign work is involved I doubt they will show up.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)free, mobile medical clinic that is still functioning and helping hundreds of people. So the people the editorialist is sneering at have been providing weekly medical clinics, clinics in rural communities, four dental clinics a year.
To claim such people don't do 'real work' requires that their critics produce examples of their own 'real work'.
I'm in the same county as this author, if you tried to canvass now for anyone people would very politely thank you for caring about politics but ask that you return after the holidays. Our Primary is seven (7) months in the future. We have extremely high voter participation, registration rates and many very informed voters. But right now is far too soon to canvass and close. It just is. That's probably why I have no heard from any campaign at my door.
We have a special election going on right now for a Library Levy. That is the issue of the day, the election we are having now, not well into next year.
Are you canvassing where you are now? I doubt it.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I live in Maryland. I plan to do some campaign work for whoever wins the nomination. I assume that will be Hillary.
I did quite a bit back in 2007 for Obama.. I hope to do the same next year.
Thanks for the clarifications on the Occupy work.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in the largest city in the county. It's just too early to canvass for candidates. Hillary is not doing it, O'Malley is not doing it. It's too soon.
brooklynite
(94,686 posts)...they have the luxury of running the medical program on their terms and schedule. Campaigns have external terms and schedules which you have to follow, or you don't win.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)to get poor slobs like Sanders' supporters to show up on time.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)price is right. Unlike Sanders' supporters who will be too busy manicuring their dreadlocks.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Just as long as those $uperPac $s keep flowing.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)and the opponent is someone like Trump or Carson or Cruz or Bush or Rubio.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)How many times is the silly whine fest going to be tried?
Beyond lame.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)maligned in this piece. Here is what Occupy continues to accomplish here:
"Since the first Occupy Eugene encampment, Occupy Medical has evolved from a loosely knit association of volunteers providing first aid in the camps into a cohesive team of primary care practitioners delivering no cost, high quality medical services to the Eugene-Springfield community at large. "
"Free Medical Clinics
ongoing
All are welcome, no charge. No appointments; first come, first served. If you have any medical conditions, concerns or questions, please come by. Lets all do what we can to make our Occupy Eugene environment as healthy and safe as possible.
Also available in : Spanish"
http://occupy-medical.org/
So they have a large mobile clinic serving people every week. How can the OP describe such people as hapless and incapable of planning or of outreach?
Do you, OP, object to free medical clinics?
I see them every week.
Also, our Primary is seven (7) months in the future and if you did 'knock on doors' right now that's what people would tell you. They'd be nice about it but 'call me after Christmas' would be the message. Middle of May we vote. Next year, in the late Spring.
Vinca
(50,300 posts)Give it a break . . . please. Other than having flyaway white hair, just about everything you say about Bernie can be turned into a remark about Hillary.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Turn that into a remark about Hillary.
Vinca
(50,300 posts)Turn that into a remark about Bernie.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Turn that into remark about Hillary.
Vinca
(50,300 posts)Honestly. It almost doesn't matter whether Hillary or Bernie is elected POTUS. As long as the far right wing of the GOP has a death grip on the House nothing will get done. Maybe after the next census if a few Democratic governors are elected and the GOP gerrymandering can be reined in we'll get somewhere. In the meantime, truth be told, it probably won't make an iota of difference which is elected. On the other hand, if a far right Republican is elected, we're totally screwed.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)We cannot afford to lose the WH.
However, I agree without gaining back the House and Senate its likely nothing serious will get done.
Vinca
(50,300 posts)I could vote for her if she's the candidate, but I'm very afraid she'll put the car in reverse and go back to the right after she wins the nomination. That might cost her votes from the left, especially younger people who sometimes have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polls anyway. Bernie, on the other hand, has generated enough excitement to get them to the polls of their own free will. In addition, he's always done well with Republican voters in Vermont (who are, of course, not the same whackos you get in Texas or Alabama or other really nutty red states) and also attracts Independents. The right despises Hillary and that will motivate them to come out and vote. I just don't see her having that "Obama-style" loyalty among Democrats. It's hard to predict what might happen, but I don't have the confidence many seem to have that Hillary is a sure thing.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)-- he's a self-identified socialist
-- his lack of appeal to AA voters
-- his extreme approach to economic reforms
-- his lack of foreign policy experience
-- his age, appearance and mannerisms (I know this is shallow but many voters are affected by this)
-- he is an old white male (I know this is also shallow also but it's a factor)
-- he is simply not inspiring to a majority of voters like Obama was or Hillary could be.
-- his oddball past (the GOP will dig up some old dirt I am sure)
Vinca
(50,300 posts)The country would be devastated by the vast majority of the opposing team.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Hint... its not just a democratic socialist.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Oh wait, that was about Hillary supporters who use the word 'socialist' like a slur.
My bad.
ismnotwasm
(41,998 posts)The grassroots organization is in a bit of disarray from what I understand.
A lot of the on-line organizational behavior *is* protest-like--from Facebook to Twitter to comment sections on Op-Eds and blogs, as well as political sites. They aren't exactly ruder than anyone else, but they tend to come en masse, which makes it very annoying. They do have a large number of "true believers" who comes across as cray, but you can find those everywhere. Those types are perhaps, more emboldened by Sanders message and so get a little more "air time" so to speak.
One of my very good friends is a Sanders supporter. She started in a bit with the Obama bashing and the Hillary bashing--she thinks it's truth, even though they're basically RW memes, with a large serving of "down with the man" woo woo crap. I simply told her I supported Hillary and was working toward getting her elected. I said "I love you girl" she said "I love you back"-- no argument, and we remain friends.
No, what will doom his campaign is Sanders himself, or if you like, the people who dislike, don't know, or reject his ability to be POTUS, and choose a more qualified and experienced candidate.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)My God, if I'd judged Obama by his supporters I would have voted for Hillary in 08. Not only were some actual Obama supporters very homophobic and casually cruel, many who posed as his supporters were virulently baiting the internet. So you have authentic jerks and then also ratfuckers. Only a chump lets the ravings of random persons influence them, particularly on the internet where random persons can claim anything or any association they wish.
The worst 'fake Obama supporter' post I read in 08 involved threats of arson on LGBT places because 'he is against homo marriage'. I suppose I could have steamed about his 'supporters' and rejected anything to do with the man but what I did was pick up the phone, call a pal in Chicago who knew how to get to the campaign and had that bullshit remark removed as quickly as possible. It was early in the campaign. 'West Hollywood will be in flames'. I'm no chump, so I did not buy what that jerk was attempting to sell.
I also, by the way, did not assume that DUers supporting Obama were arsonists in waiting. Again, because I am not a chump.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)hit-and-run flamebait thread.
Notice the very obvious pattern here, people.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)They prevent the liberal / progressive movement from being more accepted in mainstream society. They are an anchor to the movement.
Look at the progress MLK Jr did, but that was because the early civil rights movement was primarily fueled by organized black churches. The Gay Rights movement is also highly organized and has used smart strategy. You need smart organization to win.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)extreme. So was Dr King and his fellow organizers such as Bayard Rustin who had been a communist and not a minister but who was gay.
We were not even called liberals save by our supporters, we were called a revolution.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)the "weakest links" in the liberal movement.
People have been brainwashed into thinking Democrats have to compromise their ideals and candidates before they put forward their vision for a better society are also a huge impediment.
People who think it should be easy to fight against the 1%, the corporations, and the establishment are not particularly helpful to the cause, but are way, way down on the list of the problems the progressive movement faces.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)constant attacks on Sanders supporters could doom hers.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Those darn Bernie Supporters they are just so, so poor and desperate. Now get ready dear we have another Hillary fundraiser in East Hampton this evening. Rubbing elbows with Wall Street Bigwigs is so enlightening.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)To make sure democrats don't win. The best way to do that would be to try and get democrats to not vote, and one thing for sure, at least here on DU, there is a group that has attacked president Obama from day one, who have wanted to "purge" the party, and who have been using every right wing meme like, both parties are the same, if "my" candidate doesn't win I won't vote for the actual nominee in the general, etc. To me that's not the right kind of agenda to make sure we get a democrat in the WH instead of some crazy ass republican.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)applies to the other candidates as well.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The huge majority of Samders supporters I know did not participate in Occupy, and don't have long hair and beards. Most are regular voters. Kudos to Bernie for a platform that is diverse, and reaches many segments of society, not just the elitist 1%.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)The response seems to be that the article is crap, a smear. GOTV activities are "Third Way"? (So many Third Way comments in this thread). It would seem that any criticism of tactics is unacceptable, just as any criticism of Sanders or themselves is unacceptable.
All of this points to Clinton winning the nomination. Elections are hard work, and Clinton, her staff, and volunteers are pulling their sleeves up and doing that work.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Where? Can you name a single community in Oregon where this activity is taking place?
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)Is that suddenly the only state that counts? Did you not read the part where they weren't even interested in the voter list.
Whatever. They are totally on top of their game. They've got pumpkin carving parties in Iowa and a permitless rally on the DC mall on Thanksgiving weekend. I think it's an ideal strategy. Pure genius. Keep it up!
artislife
(9,497 posts)Boo yah.
Just hope that people don't look too closely at who she really is and not who she is presenting now.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)attack the supporters of the candidate.
That's just sad.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)that many of us thought the same thing in 2008 when so many young "kids" were sent out to run Obama's campaign headquarters and satellite offices. They practically ran us "old farts" out of the room and dismissed anyone w/ snow on the roof. After being insulted for the umpteenth time, I turned my energies to local and state races and let them run the "big show". Seems to have turned out pretty well.
BTW - I'm a Hillary supporter.
RandySF
(59,134 posts)They remind me of Edwards 2008.
ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)How's SF? I wish I still lived there you lucky dog!
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)portlander23
(2,078 posts)ecstatic
(32,727 posts)Is that really true? I don't go on Facebook that much but I guess the question is, what is considered frequent?
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Do you really think you're fooling anybody with your fake concern?
RandySF
(59,134 posts)PatrickforO
(14,586 posts)First, Sanders' message is supposedly fringe, but is actually (according to numerous polls) supported by a majority of Americans.
Okay, now let's look at who has come out fervently in support of Sanders. I have, and I'm an old middle class white guy that's tired of getting nickel and dimed to death by politicians I vote for as the lesser evil. Seems like Bernie isn't like that because of his track record. Lots of folks I know also support Bernie.
That said, let's talk Occupy. Bernie's campaign has definitely attracted socialists - the real socialists that usually don't vote because no candidate is ideologically pure enough for them. I read an article by a socialist group that made the point that Bernie wasn't even a real socialist but they should support his campaign because he's the best candidate for socialists since FDR. The key here is that many on what is called the 'radical' left don't participate because they think our system is so rigged their votes will be useless anyway. But some are supporting Sanders and some will vote...this time.
In terms of a grass roots movement, seems like it is happening for Sanders, but you could be right; if supporters don't organize he may not win.
Why did I say 'may not?' Because you speak of retail politics. The traditional door to door, voter registration drive, phone calling retail politics. What Obama's machine was so very, very good at doing. Frighteningly good, in fact. I volunteered in 08 and 12 and the Obama machine was unlike anything I've ever experienced. Amazing.
But 'retail' these days may not be so tied to brick and mortar. If you look at actual retail sales versus online sales, you see that the online market is growing exponentially while the brick and mortar group of retailers is growing much more slowly. Almost sluggish, in fact. My point is that 'retail' politics may actually mirror real retail in this way. Facebook, reddit, twitter, and all the others are where a whole new generation, 80 million strong, is going to get their news and share their views. I'm thinking of the numerous students for Bernie websites that have grown up to get out the college vote. They aren't knocking on doors, but the online approach might be better with this group.
I guess we will see how it goes, but the phenomenon - the changing face of retail politics in the USA - is fascinating to watch.
R B Garr
(16,972 posts)perfectly: hermetically sealed bubble rejecting experience, expertise and education.
People won't be bothered if they are attacked and labeled just for questioning Sanders.
I doubt calling Soccer Moms murderers will help if they express any interest in Clinton.
Calling teenage girls corporatists because their sign painted for a Hillary rally looked too good.
They are already well known on social media for being flippant and rude and they apparently take it into real life as witnessed by the childish behavior at that JJ dinner last night. They are a liability.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Gee, which other Presidential candidate's groupies could one say that of, as well?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)When she tossed down such an affront with her DOMA comments.
I mean, damn, maybe I'm a crazy Sanders supporter, but at least I have my integrity and dignity.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)We're inconsequential. Y'all keep saying so right?