Sanders tears into Clinton's ambitions and record at Iowa Democrat fundraiser

[lovuian]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/25/sanders-tears-into-clintons-ambitions-and-record-at-iowa-democrat-fundraiser

Vermont senator echoes Obama’s criticisms rival over leadership ambitions, trade deals, the Keystone XL pipeline and gay rights

The Vermont senator went on to implicitly call out Clinton, noting she had long lagged behind him on a number of progressive causes. In particular, Sanders cited issues such as gay rights, the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Iraq war as “the difficult choices” – a subtle reference to Clinton’s memoir Hard Choices – that he has made.

[RobertEarl]

1. Hillary is a conservative

Bernie is progressive for equality. Cons are in it only for themselves.

[MohRokTah]

2. Sanders promised he would not do this.

That makes Sanders a liar.

[jkbRN]

4. He doesn't do negative attacks,

& comparing voting records is not a personal, it is simply pointing out the facts. If facts are somehow a personal attack, please let me know how you came to this conclusion, thanks.

If this makes sanders a liar, then HRC is also one, by misconstruing his "shouting on gun control" comment, and making it about her. (Btw, she also said she would not attack Bernie). To that point, HRC is doing exactly what you are saying about Bernie--but worse. She is taking comments out of context and trying to capatilize on them, whereas Bernie stated facts on both of their voting records.

[MohRokTah]

6. He's making negative attacks.

That makes him a liar.

End of discussion.

[jkbRN]

9. He is pointing out the differences in voting records

Not an attack, and not a liar.

You are trying to take a cheap shot, while failing to face the reality of what HRC has done (not fact based) and what Bernie has done (fact based). Do yourself a favor and wake up.

[MohRokTah]

10. That's your *opinion*

HE is making negative attacks IMO.

He's a lying liar because of it.

[jkbRN]

12. No, that's a fact.

I'm sure you know the difference b/t an opinion & facts, don't undermine your argument further than you already have.

[MohRokTah]

13. No, it is an opinion. eom

[jkbRN]

14. Let me know when you are able to have a constructive conversation

You keep repeating the same line--offering no insight or legitimacy to your opinion based facts (meaning that your facts are derived from opinions and are therefore, not factual)--which doesn't exist in reality.

[MohRokTah]

15. I certainly cannot have a coversation with someone who considers their opinions to be facts. eom

[jkbRN]

18. My opinions are based on facts, I'm still waiting for you to present ONE fact..

But your previous posts have shown that you do not have the capability to do so.

Don't take what I have said and try to turn it back on me, it comes off as childish and the facts I have stated are in the posts above. Maybe you should take some time to actually read them without your bias getting in the way

[Ed Suspicious]

29. How have you evaded my ignore list for so long?

[malokvale77]

43. LOL

Although I don't use the ignore feature, I have often wondered how that one has managed to stay on DU for so many posts. He/she reminds me of another not so long gone poster. Same overly aggressive, hateful and lacking any discernible content style.

[truedelphi]

27. A politican's past activities are facts, unless they are

made up and fabricated. The Sanders supporters on this board are not fabricating her past - what they say is a matter of record.

Clinton's record is as a lousy corporatist, and she has never met a Big Money Policy she didn't own until it was politically expedient to ditch it.

[daleanime]

28. Why do I see....

an image of you with your fingers in your ears?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. Pointing out issue differences between candidates is not negative

[HerbChestnut]

5. He said he wouldn't do personal attacks.

Comparing records is not a personal attack and is something him and his campaign have been gearing up to do for quite some time.

[MohRokTah]

11. I reject your opinion about this.

HE is making negative attacks which makes him a liar.

[HerbChestnut]

25. Did you really think nobody was going to challenge Hillary on her record during this campaign?

That's what campaigns are all about. Bernie has been quite clear and distinct when defining what is a personal attack and what is a comparison on the issues.

[Krytan11c]

41. So Hillary's record is negative

Glad we agree!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. As Madame Secretary continues her inexorable march to the White House expect the attacks...

As Madame Secretary continues her inexorable march to the White House expect the attacks on her to grow exponentially.

[MohRokTah]

17. It's a sign of weakness in the opposition campaign.

It's much like how the Republicans approached the inevitable passage of the ACA.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I am disappointed in the Vermont senator...

One of the things that was admirable about him is that he eschewed negative campaigning.

[MohRokTah]

20. I'm not. He's a politician and he is doing what politicians in his position do.

When you are losing badly, all you have left is to go negative.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. If I am going down I would prefer to go down holding on to my principles.

eom

[MohRokTah]

23. All politicians are loose with principles...

even the Sainted Sanders.

[jkbRN]

21. Hillarys super pacs as well as herself

combined have made MANY attacks against Sanders.

Does that mean her camp is showing signs of weakness? Make sure to apply your theories to ALL candidates.

[MohRokTah]

24. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Hillary never promised she would not use negativity.

Sanders did.

Sanders lied.

Now Sanders supporters must accept the fact that Sanders plays hard and loose with principles, just like any politician.

[HerbChestnut]

26. Wow you are all in aren't you?

Maybe if you keep making these posts people will believe you? Isn't that a Republican tactic?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. As a dispassionate observer I am compelled to award this round to Moh Rok Tah.

He does have a little thing called the truth on his side.

[HerbChestnut]

32. A dispassionate observer who supports Hillary.

Right.

[Aerows]

31. Ripping her record to shreds

isn't "personal". It's the reason he's running - he disagrees with her record and her views. That's why people who support Bernie Sanders support Bernie Sanders - they disagree with her record and her views, too.

O'Malley supporters disagree with her record and her views, that's why the support O'Malley.

So far all I've heard from Clinton supporters is how awful Sanders supporters are, and that has finally been put to bed with the ridiculous Bernie Bro slur that bombed.

NOW Clinton supporters are ready to discuss actual issues and are afraid because she is coming up short? We've been waiting to discuss actual issues this whole time.

[MohRokTah]

33. Sanders has no record to rip to shreds.

The man has accomplished nothing in the Congress.

[Aerows]

34. Just because you *wish* that was true

doesn't make it true. Keep wishing.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

49. Oh really?

More than H. Clinton

[Alittleliberal]

56. Your hatred blinds you. nt

[mcar]

3. What's wrong with ambition?

[HerbChestnut]

7. Ambition at the cost of principles is the problem.

Bernie pointed out several examples where Clinton voted for or supported a bill for political purposes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. As well he should. K&R

[DURHAM D]

35. He had to do something, he is losing ground.

Now he just seems grumpy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. What happened to the "happy warrior"?

eom

[DURHAM D]

39. He is not accustomed to push back.

It is easy to be "happy" when you are the only one talking.

It is going to get rougher for him as the Clinton campaign has moved him off message and so far he is not responding well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. In the debate he seemed shook by his short exchange with Martin O'Malley about guns...

That doesn't portend well on how he would handle himself under sustained attack... As lawyers say he "opened the door" so we shall see what happens.

[Cali_Democrat]

37. Ambitious women are scary!

[DURHAM D]

40. Yes we are. nt

[truedelphi]

42. I thought this twitter posting of

"Leftist underground" was concise and rather wise:

There's a big difference between feminism and having a female superiority complex. The latter being just as despicable as racism.

[LongTomH]

38. I heard nothing negative in Bernie's speech, he didn't once mention Hillary by name.

He did point out some issues where his votes differed from Hillary's, without mentioning her by name or even referring to how she voted.

[truedelphi]

44. Well, how dare the man do that! He needs to understand that she

Is the pre-approved corporate candidate, and then he should get out of her way so she can make history being the first woman to assume the office of the Presidency!

<sarcasm>

[workinclasszero]

46. Bernie's desperation is

palpable.

[malokvale77]

51. Smells like...

Hillary supporter desperation to me.

[malokvale77]

47. On a personal level...

I have to say, your OP has made for some hillarious sub-threads. Some laughter that I really needed.

Thank you much.

[lovuian]

50. from the article

Perhaps his most pointed criticism of Clinton came when discussing trade. In particular, he pointedly described his opposition to the TPP, an agreement which would create a free trade zone between US, Japan and 10 other countries circling the Pacific ocean. Sanders has long opposed the TPP, which has been promoted by the Obama administration, and other major trade deals.
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In contrast, Clinton was heavily involved in negotiations on the deal when secretary of state and described it as “set[ting] the gold standard in free trade agreements in 2012”. However, she came out against it only a few weeks ago under political pressure from the left in the Democratic party.

Sanders pointedly said of the TPP, “It is not now, nor has it ever been, the gold standard of trade agreements. I did not support it yesterday. I do not support it today. And I will not support it tomorrow.”


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/25/sanders-tears-into-clintons-ambitions-and-record-at-iowa-democrat-fundraiser

[Thinkingabout]

52. He sounded like he was attacking Bill Clinton's record, guess it is time to attack Jane's record.

[cantbeserious]

53. And To Add To The Discussion - Why Is The Democratic Party (HRC) Afraid Of Larry Lessig?

[lovuian]

54. from Yahoo

DES MOINES, Iowa — Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., went on the offensive at the Iowa Democratic Party’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner, where he delivered a speech that highlighted former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s shifting positions. His performance earned headlines dubbing him “fiery” and “bare-knuckle.” However, his campaign insists the remarks aren’t the beginning of an all-out attack on Clinton in their race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Sanders’ press secretary, Symone Sanders, told Yahoo News on Sunday that she was surprised by some of the coverage of his speech.

“I saw some reports saying, you know, ‘Oh, the senator like smacked Hillary, slapped Hillary, attacked her.’ Those were not slaps, attacks and smacks, but they were differentiating on the issues,” Symone said. “The senator has a really strong record to stand on, so he’s going to stand on it.”

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-getting-a-little-more-pointed-on-175507987.html

[mhatrw]

55. Tears into?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251724732