Robert Scheer: Clinton strenuously supported bombing that destabilized Libya beyond recognition

[portlander23]

An Idiotic GOP Is Looking at the Wrong Thing in Its Clinton Probe
Robert Scheer
Truthdig

The ugly reality of the Benghazi investigation is that the Republicans hawks investigating Clinton are fully complicit with the former secretary of state for the murderous pandemonium in Libya that led to the death of U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and to the failed state that followed. It is simply immoral to now focus on whether Stevens was properly protected instead of on the nutty bipartisan arrogance of a U.S.-backed policy of regime change that left Libya in chaos, with much of its population in desperate flight from a country now ruled by three competing bands of Islamic fanatics.

“We came, we saw, he died,” Clinton boasted with a chuckle over the brutal death of a defanged dictator, ignoring the fact that the secular Gadhafi, long past his boisterous prime, was hardly a serious threat to the stability of the region. Gadhafi had been in a war with precisely the fanatics that, as she testified, Clinton was counting on to go to the aid of our ambassador, but they rewarded our support for their rebellion by meting out the same brutality they had exercised on Gadhafi himself. So much for the “Smart Power” mantra that Clinton and her ideological compatriot, U.N. Ambassador Samantha Power, have been proclaiming as the harbinger of a new Clinton Doctrine.

That Clinton had strenuously supported the bombing that destabilized Libya beyond recognition as a nation was confirmed in an email to her from her confidant Sidney Blumenthal, who on Aug. 22, 2011, proclaimed the start of the bombing as “a historic moment” and added “you will be credited for realizing it.” Blumenthal went on to predict that “[w]hen Gaddafi himself is finally removed, you should of course make a public statement before the cameras wherever you are, even in the driveway of your vacation home. … You must go on camera. You must establish yourself in the historical record at this moment. … The most important phrase is: ‘successful strategy.’ ”

The only value in disclosure of the secretary of state’s private emails is to confirm that she was considerably more hawkish than President Obama, and the only question about her zeal is whether it was driven by political cynicism or ideological hubris.

That is a distinction without a difference to the innocent victims of what Clinton trumpets as “Smart Power,” but it may be useful in assessing whether as president she would be even more reckless than any Republican opponent. Quite a limited choice, but one we are likely to be stuck with, given the dropping of Democratic alternatives in the wake of what much of the media has proclaimed a Clinton triumph over her Republican congressional critics.

Related:

Ignoring U.S. Destabilization of Libya, GOP Benghazi Hearing Asks Clinton All the Wrong Questions

Hillary Defends Her Failed War in Libya

Robert Scheer: Go Ahead, Back Hillary Clinton and Forget All About Her Record

[randys1]

1. BASH BASH BASH Hillary, BASH BASH BASH

[Armstead]

2. Is it bashing to question and criticie the very reasons or going into Libya?

I guess no one should have bashed GWB about that Iraq thing either. Just buy the official line and support the war.

[randys1]

3. Nope, what is bashing is a poster who only posts threads attacking Hillary, rarely or never

comes back to a thread once the hit and run has been posted.

You do understand this is an overt attempt to make sure she doesnt win the WH.

And you do understand that if she is the GE candidate, this would mean someone like Ben Carson does win?

Got that do we ????

[Armstead]

5. Well I donlt agree ith hit and run posts...

But in fairness to the OP, while they are prolific, he also posts articles that are critical of Sanders and that occsionally have poitive things about Clinton.

In this case, while I was among those rooting or Clinton in the hearings, the author Riobert Scheer does raise a valid point outside of the usual "Bad GOP" V. Clinton, which is: What the hell were we doing in a mini version of Iraq, and inflaming a situation that resulted in less stability and replaced one awful dictator with a chaotic turf battle among extremists?

[randys1]

6. What any of this has to do with preventing the american taliban from taking the WH, i dont know

[roguevalley]

10. no one cares about this forum. We change nothing but the circle we run with

this idea that disagreeing on this forum undermines democracy is astonishing to me. Truly.

[randys1]

12. 227,177 user registrations and 69,848,360 posts since 2001

[TheKentuckian]

13. Once of prevention beats a pound of cure. No Turd Way believer should ever be nominated

as to take such a risk.

You want to keep to going this way? Then the blow back either way is on the force feeders not the person coughing up what you are choking them with.

If Clinton gets in and "pragmatically" fucks us those as those from her school of thought (and yes it is literally HER school of thought, we are talking a DLC founder here at at the highest echelons at that, no mere tagalog status for Madame) tend to do then you own it.

If the TeaPubliKlans get in over her then that too is on you for madly hammering away at that square peg no matter how often you were told the hole is round, please dear God, please look and see the hole is round!

I guess if one pounds long and hard enough the damn hole will be so big anything will go in it, one day a parallelogram will go in the hole if we make it big enough!

[randys1]

14. So the person who will vote Dem no matter what, THEY are the ones risking the election?

Utter nonsense.

[TheKentuckian]

26. The force feeders of the failed and corrupt ideology are most certainly responsible

no matter how much finger pointing and redirecting you want to do.

Just forever swallow what we keep shoving is not a solution and I don't give a damn whether you insist on believing it is or not and a pinkie swear that you'd just love to be the one force fed and the hyper phony you wouldn't have to force feed me, aid be even happier chowing down on that but... if the situation was to hypothetically arise isn't convincing to me.

[randys1]

28. BIG picture...BIG BIG BIG picture...

I cant help it if some cant or wont see it.

[Autumn]

39. Is what Robert Scheer wrote a lie? I hope someone can show that it's a lie. If it's

true I have no problem with any attempt, overt or otherwise to make sure she doesn't win the WH. Got that do ya ????

[msongs]

7. obama is responsible for "going into Libya" and what happened there. You're bashing the wrong person

[Comrade Grumpy]

11. Obama let Hillary have her way on Libya. She was an ardent advocate.

As the article notes, Obama was and is noticeably less hawkish.

If Obama had listened to Hillary about Syria, we'd probably be hunkered down with 100,000 troops in Damascus right now.

Hillary's warmongering is my single biggest reasons for not supporting her.

[hifiguy]

20. Don't worry. If her fanclub has their way

and she gets to the WH there will be 100,000 soldiers in a boots-on-the-ground war 90 days after she's sworn in. I'd make book on that. She's very much a believer in the Prophesies of the Archdemon Kissinger.

[roguevalley]

9. this is fucked up no matter what or who:

“We came, we saw, he died,” Clinton boasted with a chuckle

SICK! SICK! SICK!
Exulting over any death any more makes me hurl. And of course, its someone who never had to put their ass in danger for any reason. Fuck this shit.

[hifiguy]

21. Facts are what facts are.

Seriously, you post this every time someone offers documented proof of this woman's malfeasance and misfeasance. It's OLD.

[cpompilo]

30. Put your fingers in your ears and repeat after me, "La-La-La-La-La".

[randys1]

31. Constant attacking of one of the two main DEMOCRATIC candidates is tiring

but there is a group who benefits from that

and it isnt Bernie Sanders the candidate

[merrily]

33. Perhaps you confused a war with criticizing Hillary for her hair style?

[840high]

38. You call it bashing - I call it fact.

[Maedhros]

4. It's important to realize that the Libyan intervention was based upon a cavalcade of lies,

just like Iraq.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/the-top-ten-myths-in-the-war-against-libya/

These top ten myths are some of the most repeated claims, by the insurgents, and/or by NATO, European leaders, the Obama administration, the mainstream media, and even the so-called “International Criminal Court”—the main actors speaking in the war against Libya. In turn, we look at some of the reasons why these claims are better seen as imperial folklore, as the myths that supported the broadest of all myths—that this war is a “humanitarian intervention,” one designed to “protect civilians”. Again, the importance of these myths lies in their wide reproduction, with little question, and to deadly effect. In addition, they threaten to severely distort the ideals of human rights and their future invocation, as well aiding in the continued militarization of Western culture and society.

1. Genocide.

2. Gaddafi is “bombing his own people”.

3. Save Benghazi.

4. African Mercenaries.

5. Viagra-fueled Mass Rape.

6. Responsibility to Protect (R2P).

7. Gaddafi—the Demon.

8. Freedom Fighters—the Angels.

10. Defeat for “the Left”.

[hifiguy]

19. Most people never seem to learn a goddam thing

from experience. They keep putting down their money to be cheated by the same three-card monte dealer again and again and again, EVEN AFTER THEY KNOW THE GAME IS RIGGED.

We are one unbelievably imbecilic society.

[Maedhros]

23. No, it's just that people have malleable ethics.

Buncha' brown people in a third world country killed by the U.S. military when a Republican is in office? OUTRAGE!!!111Eleven!!

When a Democrat is in office? <crickets>

[hifiguy]

24. "Situational ethics"

is the precise term you're looking for.

When they do spying on everyone, rendering, mass murder, senseless warmongering - BAD

We do same thing - DOUBLE PLUS GOOD!!! - Grunt, snort, oink, belch, ooga booga - YAY, TEAM!!

[Maedhros]

25. I was having a discussion (that turned into an argument) with a friend

who considers himself a "far left freak." The topic of discussion was the Libyan intervention, right after it happened. I was being very, very critical of the Obama Administration for ignoring the Congressional vote prohibiting a strike vs. Libya and for ginning up a number of bullshit propaganda lies to justify the strike (see Common Dreams article above).

The "far left freak" sneered at my concerns, absolutely convinced that Libya "was different than Iraq" and that we bombed that country to help stop genocide. Could he not see that the same argument was used vis-a-vis Iraq - Saddam gassed his own people, "don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud", etc?

No, he couldn't see it. More accurately, he didn't want to see it. He wanted to believe the lies.

That's what we have now - a Party of dutiful ballot-punchers, who don't want to see that the Empress has no clothes and will hear no criticisms because she's "Presidential" or something. I cannot take anything they say seriously, because there is no past policy too despicable for them not to rationalize.

[hifiguy]

27. It's like Jerry Seinfeld said about rooting for sports teams

They root for the label on the front of the laundry.

The content is wholly irrelevant.

I am one of nature's doubters and skeptics - born that way - and question ANY AND ALL arguments, especially those from so-called received authority or conventional wisdom. No matter WHO is making the argument.

[MisterP]

8. remember how for a brief shining moment DU could believe Libya was doing great?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002388548
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002405978
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002768036
http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6720333
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=468383
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025452028
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=161306
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002752959
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www.scn.org/youtube.com/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x638549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3611795
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=240964
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002467606

[riderinthestorm]

35. My posts from that era are evident that it was going to be a disaster

I hate saying I told you so...



There were others who were similarly concerned at the time that de-stabilizing the regimes under the false "Arab Spring" enthusiasm was going to backfire badly.

I admit, Hillary's war blood lust is an enormous obstacle to supporting her. She's going to be more of the same and I refuse, REFUSE! to be a party to it anymore...

I just can't.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. How do people with blood on their hands sleep at night?

Cheney and Bush are psychotic sociopaths, so they have zero conscience.

What's Hillary's excuse? How does someone sleep at night, knowing they've murdered innocent women, children and men who did nothing wrong, but be born in the wrong country? A country the USA decided needed to be destroyed because of the destabilization in the region - CAUSED BY HILLARY'S IWR VOTE TO GO TO WAR IN IRAQ. She had a part in creating ISIS. How does she sleep at night?

Please keep her away from the codes.

[hifiguy]

22. They sleep like babies

untroubled and secure in the knowledge that they are advancing the most wonderful thing ever seen on earth: The Glorious American Imperium and its oligarchic overlords who make the world safe for brutally exploitative pirate capitalism, which is itself ordained by god or Milton Friedman, who are one in the same. They love Big Brother with all their hearts nd always will

[KoKo]

40. It's amazing to me how Healthy They Are! But, then...there's not a Cloud in their Sky

or...what the rest of Average Americans need to deal with these days just to survive the job layoffs from from "Mergers & Acquisitions" the inability to safe money working two jobs and if you are near Retirement the ability to get a bit of interest on your SAVINGS in the BANK...after the Crash of '07-'08 and what has come after.

MEANWHILE! The Top 1%'s Kids get Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford....etc. down through the Advantage School Hierarchy...and it's all taken care of with Trust Funds and Inheritance.

We have a Mess today.

[Cheese Sandwich]

16. US blowing up Libya was a brain dead scheme worthy of George W. Bush

Look at the consequences. Mrs. Clinton could be disqualified on that basis alone.

[hifiguy]

18. Not to mention the IWR.

There were only two reasons to vote for the IWR- One, you were dumb enough to actually trust Dick Cheney and GW Bush, which evidences such an utter lack of judgment that you should't be allowed to walk the dog or change the litter box without supervision, or Two, you were a craven, sniveling, crawling political coward who only wanted to cover your own miserable ass.

Both are presumptive disqualifiers from any position higher than sewage commissioner.

[cpompilo]

34. If Clinton had devised a plan to follow-up helping the Libyan people re-establish

their society and government with massive economic aid, that might have been useful. Instead, under her auspices and the CIA's assistance we armed Al-Qaeda in Libya, and "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb" Hillary forgot any humanitarian followup in favor of, "You must establish yourself in the historical record at this moment". This was her "smart diplomacy" which resulted in tragic failure - perfect credentials for denying Hillary the big chair in the White House.

[KoKo]

41. Agree...that's why we need to question her Foreign Policy...

She's too allied with NeoCons and the Past of Kissinger, Strobe Talbott and Albright who were her Mentors. She's not an Independent Thinker and relies on many Handlers to back her up when she makes a mistake in judgement.

Plus this will be Bill Clinton's Term 3. We shouldn't let ourselves be fooled that she isn't acting for Clinton Dynasty and Bill will be running the show. If she had divorced him (after Monica/Blue Dress)...I might think differently.

[hifiguy]

17. ANOTHER fact that will be shouted down, ignored,

or swept under the rug.

I am so sick of this shit.

[arcane1]

29. I haven't paid much attention to the content of the emails, but this is creepy:

"That Clinton had strenuously supported the bombing that destabilized Libya beyond recognition as a nation was confirmed in an email to her from her confidant Sidney Blumenthal, who on Aug. 22, 2011, proclaimed the start of the bombing as “a historic moment” and added “you will be credited for realizing it.” Blumenthal went on to predict that “hen Gaddafi himself is finally removed, you should of course make a public statement before the cameras wherever you are, even in the driveway of your vacation home. … You must go on camera. You must establish yourself in the historical record at this moment. … The most important phrase is: ‘successful strategy.’ ” "

[portlander23]

32. Yeah that's messed up

Misson Accomplished

[reformist2]

37. So it seems Hillary's "we came we saw he died" quote was actually rehearsed, a way of taking credit.

[sabrina 1]

44. I remember what Bishop Tutu and Nelson Mandela said after she made that awful remark about

a war crime which was simply barbaric. 'No decent person could watch that and not shudder' or words to that effect. Both those men viewed Gadaffi as a 'brother'.

Our racist FPs of course are not interested in the cultures we set out to destroy. That African nation was one of the most developed on the Continent. Gadaffi was funding other African nations, trying to help build them up. America's take on African and ME cultures and nations is so reminiscent of the British Empire's. Racist, brutal and just plain wrong.

I opposed that invasion just as I opposed Iraq. And once again, those of us who spoke out against both invasions, turned out to be sadly right.

Some day maybe there will be hearings about these criminal invasions for profit. But not in the current atmosphere of fear and hatred for people we know nothing about.

[WillyT]

36. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[mhatrw]

42. When it says Libya, Libya, Libya on the label, label, label ...

if you strike it, strike it, strike it, it gets unstable-stable-stable

[sabrina 1]

43. That is exactly how I felt about those sham hearings. They asked all the wrong questions.

What happened in Benghazi happened because of the disastrous invasion of that country which Hillary supported. THAT is what should be investigated.

And those four tragic deaths were just a few of the many, many innocent lives lost because of that awful invasion. And the people there are now living in a hell hole, thanks to our so-called Humanitarian Mission which we abandoned once the oil was secured.

[Uncle Joe]

45. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, portlander.

[Katashi_itto]

46. K&R