Rats abandoning a sinking ship?

[Sheepshank]

That sounded harsh...but I failed to immediately come up with another apropos analogy. Maybe others could think of something less poignant.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/08/nevada-state-director-for-bernie-sanders-is-leaving-the-campaign/?_r=0

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont prepares for a major rally in Nevada on Sunday, his state director there is leaving the campaign, an aide to the candidate confirmed.

The director, Jim Farrell, a Democratic strategist with ties to New Mexico, had only recently taken the position. But Michael Briggs, a spokesman for Mr. Sanders, confirmed that he will be leaving the team.

[CJCRANE]

1. "Nevada state director leaving Bernie campaign".

That would be an adequate headline that doesn't mention rats or ships.

[mythology]

48. It's sad that this had to be said

I can't imagine what prompts somebody to phrase it in the way the OP did.

Sanders is a great candidate and this is just petty nonsense (and even calling it that is charitable).

[Fearless]

50. I can imagine.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. Seriously...same old story...same old song and dance.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[applegrove]

59. Yeah. I don't think we needed the rat analogy. Bernie supporters and campaign workers

are not rats.

[Duckhunter935]

2. yep, thats real civil

and will I am sure help get Bernie supporters on your side.

I see more childish GIF signature lines another civil gesture, lol

[George II]

21. If you were initially offended by that expression, you would have looked it up....

....to see where it originated from.

It has been a commonly used idiom in the English language for centuries. In fact, it was used by William Shakespeare in The Tempest.

https://www.bookbrowse.com/expressions/detail/index.cfm/expression_number/239/like-rats-deserting-a-sinking-ship?

Meaning:

When facing a great crisis most will turn and run.

Background:

Rats have been said to be the first to sense an impending disaster, such as a sinking ship or a gas leak in a mine - so if rats are seen leaving it's a good idea to follow!

Early records of this expression go back all the way to Pliny The Elder's Natural History (77 AD): 'When a building is about to fall down, all the mice desert it'.

It also appears in a form closer to the modern usage in Shakespeare's The Tempest, Act I, Scene II (1610):

Prospero: In few, they hurried us aboard a bark,
Bore us some leagues to sea; where they prepar'd
A rotten carcass of a boat, not rigg'd,
Nor tackle, sail, nor mast; the very rats
Instinctively had quit it.

[Duckhunter935]

22. It is also how it being used

Of course you know that but do not care. Nothing like insulting a good portion of DU members. And you will have no clue on why she is not winning over Bernie supporters.

[George II]

25. Euphemistically speaking, Sanders' campaign IS "sinking" - he's losing ground.....

...in virtually every poll in every state, even the seeming slam dunk of New Hampshire.

Anyone thinking that was an "insult" to a good portion of DU members didn't read that objectively.

[mythology]

49. Oh please

they could have gone with the headline of the article. Instead they used a deliberately snide term that both disparages DUers who support Sanders, it also presumes that the guy was lying and doesn't have a family issue.

I don't care who wins the primary as I will gladly vote for any of the candidates as I don't see much difference between them, especially as compared to the train wreck that is the Republican primary. What they wrote was needlessly antagonistic.

[restorefreedom]

27. +1 nt

[winter is coming]

3. Or maybe he did actually have a family issue come up, as the article states. n/t

[Sheepshank]

6. Could be. But media being media

And campaign image being everything, it's really hard to tell.

[Sheepshank]

4. I wondered if it might be a little too sharp

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

But then figured....I've seen worse from Bernie supports, so just went with it.

[Duckhunter935]

15. And what have you seen that is worse

I guess two wrong make it right then, ok

[Agschmid]

5. Crappy OP title.

Just to ruffle some feathers I guess.

[restorefreedom]

8. it is crappy, and it was a close call

one of only 2 times i ever voted to hide

On Sat Nov 14, 2015, 12:07 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Rats abandoning a sinking ship?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251805958

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Really? Rats?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Nov 14, 2015, 12:20 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: OTT. Hide.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not a personal attack on any member of this forum
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rude, but not over the top
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The saying date backs centuries and just means the smart move is to follow the rats because rats know when a disaster is forthcoming. In this instance, it isn't an insult to be called a rat. If you must take issue, take issue with someone saying the campaign is lost as evidenced by this person leaving his job, and that the smart move is to bail on Sanders. Take issue with the logic, or lack thereof.

But the comment is not hide worthy, even if more than a little provocative. Context matters. Sometimes, a rat is just an idiom looking for meaning.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, we should ban the word rats while ensuring that all women and especially Hillary Clinton are called c...ts and wh....es as often as possible. The man is abandoning the Sanders campaign. That means he is no lower loyal to Bernie. If he were a DUer, he would be insulted and alert stalked for his crime. Yet you decide that as a public official once associated with the Sanders campaign, people be driven from the site for besmirching him. I won't play along with efforts to purge DU of anyone who dares to question anyone at anytime associated with the Holy Father.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Duckhunter935]

16. I would have leaned towards a hide too

[restorefreedom]

18. thx for saying so. i only voted hide one other time

and it was a unanimous hide. i have let a lot go, even slams on bernie. but this was just unseemingly imo.

[Duckhunter935]

19. Childish in my opinion

[restorefreedom]

20. yup. schoolyard stuff. nt

[TSIAS]

45. I have no idea how juries operate anymore

Yesterday someone called Sanders supporters "chickenshits" and it was 2-5 to LEAVE.

[Duckhunter935]

46. I know, right

[villager]

7. Rats! I neglected to put you on the ignore list til now!

That's been corrected, though

[riversedge]

12. It is a fairly common expression. What is all the fuss?

[restorefreedom]

17. i don't mind the sinking ship analogy

although i do not agree thst he is sinking. but to suggest that his supporters and staff are rats (nice creatures although most don't know that) given the rep rats have in society is uncalled for and a pretty shitty thing to do imo. bernie has run an above board and decent campaign. that was out of bounds.

and as i said, i almost never vote to hide.

[George II]

23. You should research the expression. I did, posted it in this thread. Nothing offensive whatsoever.

[restorefreedom]

26. doesn't matter what its history is

in the present, rats have a rep as being bad, scurriers, turncoats, stoolies. and to use the term to refer to bernie's staff and volunteers is dirty pool, and a crappy thing to do. all the word games in the world aren't going to change that.

[George II]

29. The word "rat" has many meanings and connotations. You guys just chose to use a negative one...

....which obviously wasn't the connotation of the OP.

The OP didn't merely use the word "rat" as a stand alone, it was used within a well-used, longstanding English idiom.

[restorefreedom]

30. whatever you say george

it appears that some are seeing it differently

besides, if one can use an analogy with a potentially offensive meaning, or one with absolutely no risk of offense (water draining out of a boat, etc), why go with the dual meaning one, unless one does not care about offending?

its not hard.

[George II]

31. The point is that that expression does NOT have a dual meaning and has been used for centuries....

....long before any of the negative connotations of the word "rat" ever appeared.

But it was used by a Clinton supporter speaking about a Sanders campaign worker, so it just HAD to have been an insult.

I think there are bigger fish to fry than nitpicking an English idiom.

You have a good day, enjoy the debate.

[Duckhunter935]

36. It was an insult

And one of the reasons I will not support the person that poster is advocating for. Cheep petty shots and you do not help it at all. She does not have my support and can not earn it.

[restorefreedom]

39. i do find it disturbing

that some candidates and some (not all) supporters think they can treat others like shit and then command them to vote for a certain person in the ge

taking voters for granted is a formula for losing

[Duckhunter935]

41. True

[restorefreedom]

38. i do agree with you

that there are bigger tofu chunks to fry (i am veg)

so lets leave it on a note of agreement

have a nice day!

[Duckhunter935]

35. Or as I think

They knew exactly what they meant to say. Some here think rats are a good thing are just being dishonest and they know it also.

[restorefreedom]

37. yes. but if it had been refernce to a different candidate

there would be screaming and alerts all day long.

interesting.

[Duckhunter935]

40. I know

The ones defending this OP would be the loudest too.

[restorefreedom]

43. eyup. nt

[Duckhunter935]

33. Lol

[redstateblues]

32. Thin skins

[rhett o rick]

56. It's a not so clever why to call Sanders supporters Rats. But that's where the Clinton side

is. Win at all costs. Billions will be spent to push Clinton into office. You obviously side with the billionaires.

[Hortensis]

10. Bernie's ship isn't sinking, it's cruising right along on the surface.

I think people should remember that Bernie's real, or at least initial, goal in all this was to spread and gain acceptance for his economic ideology. There's still some time for some exciting surges of interest, too, but at this point he has already definitely won.

[George II]

24. But losing ground to the Hillary Clinton juggernaut.

[Hortensis]

28. The Clinton juggernaut and Bernie are on different tracks.

At this point all indications are they will arrive at the nomination alongside each other, and then a larger portion of the electorate will vote for her.

But sinking? No. Bernie's doing splendidly.

This at least is the viewpoint of someone like me who likes at lot about him but has never been given reason to believe he could win the nomination itself. But, hey, if Hillary were carried off by aliens or something in the next few months, that would catapult Bernie onto a whole new track.

[reformist2]

34. Actually, Bernie's at record high numbers nationally.

[Hortensis]

52. Sure. And they'll both be jogging up and down

relative to each other right up until Super Tuesday, which is now 3-1/2 months away.

Still long enough for people to get kind of bored with status quo among 3 lonely candidates. Hillary already got a star rating for her 11 hours of letting GOP congressmen look like fools, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be surprising if restless attention turned to Bernie and O'Malley, giving either or both some nice bumps along the way.

[George II]

54. But he's further behind than he was a month ago. The "undecideds" are deciding, and they're...

....deciding on Hillary Clinton. The gap is widening:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

[Robbins]

51. nope

inless bernie wins nomination he has lost.clinton will move right if she wins primarys.

[DCBob]

11. "Mr. Farrell didn’t immediately respond to a call for comment."

Odd.

[winter is coming]

13. You know, if he's dealing with a family crisis, immediately responding to press

calls isn't going to be a priority.

[DCBob]

14. It was characterized as a "family issue".

Doesn't sound like a crisis but perhaps it is.

[SidDithers]

42. DU rec for surviving a ridiculous alert...nt

Sid

[Persondem]

44. Clinton has had a good month or so. No need to rub salt in the other side's wounds

Show some class and change the headline.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Pretty vile choice of words. Anyone ever leave the Clinton campaign? Yep. How about Obama's?

Yep, in fact I remember one of Obama's leaving because she'd called Hillary a monster and many of DU's current Hillary supporters just loved that verbiage too. Myself, I don't care for dehumanizing the opposition. No rats, cockroaches, monsters or any of that crap for me. I think it is a fascist bullying thing.

[AtomicKitten]

55. You calling Nina Turner a rat?

[Sheepshank]

57. You've seriously never heard the term before?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x970285
All the way back to 2004

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026193761

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x513556

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5135564

And more germain, https://www.bookbrowse.com/expressions/detail/index.cfm/expression_number/239/like-rats-deserting-a-sinking-ship?

Well-Known Expressions
Like rats deserting a sinking ship
Meaning:
When facing a great crisis most will turn and run.

Background:
Rats have been said to be the first to sense an impending disaster, such as a sinking ship or a gas leak in a mine - so if rats are seen leaving it's a good idea to follow!

Early records of this expression go back all the way to Pliny The Elder's Natural History (77 AD): 'When a building is about to fall down, all the mice desert it'.

It also appears in a form closer to the modern usage in Shakespeare's The Tempest, Act I, Scene II (1610):

[AtomicKitten]

58. She abandoned the SS Clinton to support Bernie. You calling her a rat?

[Sheepshank]

60. Well it would appear you just applied the moniker to her

....by implying Hillary's campaign is a sinking ship....so...... Looks like you just oooops up.

[AtomicKitten]

61. There are important issues & then there is this pointless nonsense to distract.