Sanders & O'Malley want to raise taxes on the middle class - Clinton doesn't...What about you?

[red dog 1]

"Clinton and Sanders are divided over a big Obama promise: Not raising taxes on the middle class"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141259037

11 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I am for raising taxes on the middle class
	7 (64%)
	I am against raising taxes on the middle class
	4 (36%)
	I don't care one way or the other
	0 (0%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[cantbeserious]

1. Sanders & O'Malley Want To Raise Taxes Of Oligarchs And Corporations - Clinton Doesn't

eom

[JaneyVee]

6. Say whaaaaat?

Where did she say that?

[FSogol]

2. Should we read your lips? No new taxes?

[-none]

3. What is needed is to make the well to do and corporations pay their fair share/

The lower one descends into the social strata, the higher the percentage of taxes one pays for what money is available to them.

[questionseverything]

12. i am against any tax increase on the middle class at this time

the 4% raise of ss rate would be devastating to independent contractors who have no boss to match funds

i was disappointed for bernie to support gildenbrands bill, the mechanism for payment needs to be on the 1% not the 99%

[red dog 1]

18. One out of four corporations pay no federal taxes at all

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/sep/26/bernie-s/sanders-one-out-four-corporations-pay-no-taxes/

[restorefreedom]

4. it depends greatly in three things

1. how much of an increase on the mc are we talking about
2. will here be a commensurate increase on those at the top
3. what will the money be used for

i picked pass because there are too many unanswered questions

[TM99]

5. We of course need to define the Middle Class.

For Clinton it is up to $200,000 a year. For others, it is less than $100,000 a year.

In either case, a graduated tax increase that would be going towards social services including infrastructure repair, college education, and single payer health insurance would be fine by me. What I don't benefit directly from, I do so indirectly through its support for my fellow Americans.

When the fuck did the Democratic party become afraid of reasonable taxation? Oh, yeah, when the neoliberals took over!

[LiberalArkie]

23. I think a single person of more that $100,000 should be about right for the tax rate to start slowly

rising up to maybe a max of 75% on income of a single person with 10 million or more.

[red dog 1]

30. "We of course need to define the Middle Class"?

"For Clinton it is up to $200,000 a year."??

I don't think so.

If you had read the OP in the DU link I provided, you would have seen that
"Hillary Rodham Clinton, for the first time in this campaign, is now committing to the same pledge Obama made: No new taxes on households earning under $250,000 a year."

[TM99]

33. Dude, you didn't dispute me, you just made it worse.

So now the middle class is up to $250,000 a year.

It is not. $250,000 is in the top 10% of wage earners. That is hardly middle class.

[red dog 1]

34. Oh but I DID dispute you!

YOU incorrectly stated that HRC considered "$200,000" to be the middle class threshold; and I merely pointed out YOUR error.

How the hell did I "make it worse"?

[TM99]

47. She recently went up to $250.000.

So the Middle Class threshold was raised even higher which is damned ridiculous. Wage earners at that level are in the top 10% - not the damned middle class.

[JaneyVee]

7. No no no.

[red dog 1]

17. + 1

[leftofcool]

22. +1

[Buzz cook]

8. I would liketo go back to the tax structure of 1976

With the proviso that corporate taxes go back to their 1968 level.

That would mean a general tax increase for everyone and a specific increase for the top 20% and business.

Just adjust dollar amount to inflation.

Failing that getting taxes to where they were before 2001.

[valerief]

9. What is the middle class? nt

[onecaliberal]

10. You obvious live in backward land where everything the dem candidates say

You hear the opposite of. Bernie wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and make corporations pay their share. Clinton is for neither of those things. You do know we have them on video, right?

[Bread and Circus]

21. This is where I've noticed the Clinton camp and Bush & Rove seem the same...

To buy their b.s. you have to suspend everything you know, see, and have learned.

Anything you think is the case is the exact opposite.

And as soon as you debunk one lie, they have two other waiting to confuse you.

[deutsey]

37. Thank you.

I thought I must have awakened in an alternate universe. After seeing this OP, I went to read what Bernie actually wants to do re: taxes.

It's apparently just some people here at DU who are residing in an alternate universe.

[onecaliberal]

41. Yeah, it's not you.

[safeinOhio]

11. Good trade off

For free college, single payer health and 100% raise for low wage earners small increase for the middle class and big raise on the 1%.

[Sheepshank]

13. I don't care the nuanced defnt. Right now is no time to raise middle income taxes

Thanks Hillary for realizing the burden is already disproportionate and a huge burden

[JonLeibowitz]

32. One must compare taxes to what is spent in the private sector

Nuanced definitions do matter. Consider the following New York Times article, published today: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/us/politics/many-say-high-deductibles-make-their-health-law-insurance-all-but-useless.html

But for many consumers, the sticker shock is coming not on the front end, when they purchase the plans, but on the back end when they get sick: sky-high deductibles that are leaving some newly insured feeling nearly as vulnerable as they were before they had coverage.

“The deductible, $3,000 a year, makes it impossible to actually go to the doctor,” said David R. Reines, 60, of Jefferson Township, N.J., a former hardware salesman with chronic knee pain. “We have insurance, but can’t afford to use it.”

Sanders' proposals involve a small payroll tax increase to fund medicare for all. Then the deductible goes to zero. When comparing plans it is important to consider total cost, not just tax cost. In this case, the payroll tax would have to increase $3000 for this family in order for it to actually be an increase overall in what they are spending.

This is all without mentioning that the article makes the case that the high cost of healthcare is preventing people form seeking and receiving care; leading to a sicker population.

[FlatBaroque]

14. I vote for trashing amateurish push polls.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Wouldn't it depend on what we get in return? nt

[TheProgressive]

16. Raise the minimum wage. Create infrastructure jobs. Dissolve NAFTA, etc. Bring our factories back...

Increase other worker's salary. Raise taxes on the high wage earners. Implement stock trading tax.

Then, feel free to raise taxes on the middleclass.

Only Sanders advocates for these policies...

[HerbChestnut]

19. What's missing in this question is context.

I don't know what O'Malley wants to do with higher taxes, but Bernie wants to increase taxes in order to pay for universal healthcare. This increase in taxes on a per person basis will be less than what it costs people to pay for private health insurance. So despite taxes being raised, people will actually *save* money under Bernie's plan. Clinton doesn't have to raise taxes on the middle class because she doesn't support a universal healthcare system.

[Hoyt]

20. Fine with it as long as upper incomes are hit too.

[MasonDreams]

24. What is "middle class"? I can remember, but it slips further away.

Am I Wrong? I thought this was DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND?
Have I slipped down the rabbit hole? Is "center-right" Hillary really using the TAX & SPEND republican message?
And to get the Democratic Party nomination?
Red states are repuke run right? But Reds are commies, that's a different Red I know.
Yellow Dogs are Democrats, yes? or are they the ones that voted for Reagan?
If it's all about the Irish Setter I understand, I'm for real confused and I don't want to make anyone angry.
The blue party is painting the liberals red so they can avoid yellow dogs voting red, the other red?
By George I think I've got it! Nobody likes George! George III, GWB 41, GHWB 43. Oops #s transposed!

TAX the rich, feed the poor, don't feed the War.
And you can tax me too. I just want to eat, and not get shot.
Is that too much to ask for an honorably discharged, law abiding, FT employed voter?

[artislife]

28. ^^^This.....nt

[deutsey]

39. It is odd seeing Democrats using old Reaganite fear tactics re: taxes

[HereSince1628]

25. Maybe. It depends on what the revenue seeking bill looks like

for me I'd want to know how the entire taxation picture would be structured, what exemptions are included and another would be how spending that revenue would be targeted.

[red dog 1]

31. "This is not true"??

WHAT "is not true"?

Please be specific.

[leftofcool]

35. Yes, it will get deep around here when Bernie loses again.

I can't wait to see all the excuses.

[BainsBane]

27. I'm not opposed to a tax increase on the middle and upper-middle class

as long as it's progressive. I don't like fee based taxes or payroll taxes because they are regressive.

The fact is we all pay historically low federal income taxes. Though, states and counties make it up by imposing a myriad of other taxes.

[elleng]

29. 'O’Malley also supports raising taxes on the rich, in part by raising the rate on capital gains.

As Maryland’s governor, he temporarily raised taxes on the wealthy and boosted sales taxes, the gas tax and the corporate tax rate. . .

O’Malley also supports requiring family leave and expanding access to affordable child care. He wants to ramp up investment in clean energy by extending production and investment tax credits for renewable energy, create a clean energy financing authority, modernize the electric grid, and create a jobs corps to retrofit buildings to be more efficient. . .

O’Malley would allow students — and their parents — to refinance their loans at lower rates and automatically enroll borrowers in income-based repayment plans, with loan forgiveness options. He would call on states to freeze tuition at public colleges and to restore funding for higher education. He’d also provide federal matching grants to encourage states to boost their support of higher ed. . .

Sanders and O’Malley back activists who want to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. . .

O’Malley has a long list of Wall Street reforms, including restoring Glass-Steagall. He would also double funding for the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and create an economic crimes division within the Justice Department.'

http://fox40.com/2015/11/14/what-the-democrats-think-about-taxes-income-inequality-and-more/

[deutsey]

36. What we should have done is let Bush's tax breaks for the wealthy expire

...or, even better, they should've never happened in the first place.

[red dog 1]

38. I agree!

George W. Bush should've never happened in the first place!

Gore won the 2000 election; but the activist, right-wing Supreme Court stepped in and stopped the vote count in Florida (Bush v Gore)

[deutsey]

40. I agree with you there

I remember all too well what happened in 2000.

I doubt we'll recover from that debacle in my lifetime, if at all.

[Fearless]

42. Your statement is false.

[red dog 1]

43. How so?

[Fearless]

45. As in it is not true.

[red dog 1]

46. Great answer!

What EXACTLY "is not true"?

Be specific!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

44. My for vote:

They also say the middle class will benefit overall from their plans.

If I pay more in taxes but less for health insurance (or whatever else), so as to 'benefit overall', it's still better for me than paying 'less taxes!'

It's the same principle behind unions - as an individual, I don't have the clout to demand better rates from a corporation, whether in terms of my pay or insurance coverage or whatever. But in concert with a hell of a lot of other folks, we do.

Simply saying 'No taxes!' is playing to the lowest common denominator, folks who can't do the math.

[PatrickforO]

48. Congrats, Red Dog.

You have taken a page right out of the book of Rove.

So would you like to have your taxes raised?

Gosh no, the inexperienced or ignorant would say...and that with proper indignation.

But wait...maybe I should ask what for first, eh? Oh. To finance paid leave. Well that isn't so bad.

Then, the second question is how much? According to this article it will be a small increase. Now, as a responsible citizen, Red Dog, I would then do a little digging and find out how much a small increase would be, and then I'd put that in the context of my own life. I'm ageing. My wife is ageing. What if I have to take care of her? FMLA already exists so I'd get 12 weeks with the guarantee that my job or one comparable would be waiting when I return. But it would be really nice NOT to have to take my PTO for this, and if this program covers it, then it would actually HELP me.

So I'm now OK with a small tax increase, in spite of your leading question.

You should note that I would ALSO be willing to pay more taxes for single payer healthcare. Absolutely. Because I already pay out the nose for shitty rationed healthcare coverage - that's called 'premiums.' It would actually benefit me MUCH more to have guaranteed healthcare that is NOT tied to my employment, so yes, I'd be willing to pay more tax for that.

What you must realize here, Red Dog, is that it costs money to have the kind of programs we need. The other thing I'd like you to think about for a moment is why these corporations aren't paying their fair share of taxes? GE, Wells Fargo, Paccar, Mattel, others - have salted way over $2 trillion in UNTAXED profits offshore. Individual billionaires have added over $20 trillion in untaxed income offshore. What about them? They gonna pay their fair share?

And what about the huge bloated forever war spending? $650 billion a year nominally, but in reality over $1 trillion annually. Gosh, the MIC is powerful and they will literally kill people who get in the way of their precious stinking profits, but here's my reality: I pay lots of taxes and I want my tax money to go for programs that make my life better instead of enriching Halliburton and General Dynamics shareholders.

[Kalidurga]

49. I don't know a number big enough to ++++ this post.

[joshcryer]

50. Clinton redefines the "middle class" as the top 5%.