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elleng

(130,974 posts)
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 09:15 PM Nov 2015

Let’s Kick ‘Boots on the Ground’ to the Curb.

In the aftermath of the Paris terror attacks, “boots on the ground,” Vietnam-era shorthand for ground troops, has become the rhetorical equivalent of camouflage fashion. Tossing out the term gives politicians a battle-toughened air, while distancing them from the fact that they’re calling for the United States to send young Americans into battle.

“I rarely if ever hear anyone who wears boots use the term — it’s a chest-thumping thing,” said retired Maj. Gen. Bob Scales, a military historian and former commandant of the United States Army War College in Carlisle, Pa.

The more complicated the topic, of course, the more tempting to give it a facile descriptor. That’s how standards like “kick the can down the road” (stall a vote in Congress); “collateral damage” (civilian deaths); and “person of interest” (not quite a suspect but we sure hope so) came into being.

This week, as presidential candidates and members of Congress debate military intervention in Syria, there’s a sanitizing quality to “BOTG” that makes it more pernicious than most clichés. Take this observation, from Lindsey Graham, one of the Republican presidential candidates who’s been beating the drum for boots: “The age of half measures has to end. At the end of the day when you put 50 boots on the ground you’re telling ISIL you’re not really serious as an American president to degrade and destroy them.” Speaking of half-measures, what does the senator from South Carolina mean by “50 boots?” Is that 25 soldiers, or does one boot equal one soldier?

Or take Hillary Clinton’s response when asked by John Dickerson, the moderator of Saturday’s Democratic debate: “How did you get it wrong with Libya if the key lesson of the Iraq war is have a plan for after?”

“Well, we did have a plan,” Mrs. Clinton said, “and I think it’s fair to say that of all of the Arab leaders, Gaddafi probably had more blood on his hands of Americans than anybody else. And when he moved on his own people, threatening a massacre, genocide, the Europeans and the Arabs, our allies and partners, did ask for American help and we provided it.” She added: “And we didn’t put a single boot on the ground, and Gaddafi was deposed.”

Her opponent Martin O’Malley cried foul, with an anecdote about a soldier’s mother who told him, “My son is not a pair of boots on the ground.”

Nobody was dissuaded, of course. A quick scan of TV transcripts shows more than two dozen references to military footwear since Sunday.

Ted Cruz, notably, used the term to criticize others’ posturing: “You know, I think there are far too many politicians, when it comes to boots on the ground, that are eager just to commit to boots on the ground to show how tough they are,” Mr. Cruz said on CNN on Tuesday.

The New America Foundation’s Douglas Ollivant, a retired Army officer and director for Iraq at the National Security Council during the George W. Bush and Obama administrations, said the lure and the danger of the term for politicians is that “it’s totally undefined. This is military slang that has moved into common parlance but the boundaries of what it means are not clear.”

“Iraq 2007 was boots on the ground, no doubt about it,” he said. But in the current debate, when presidential candidates and members of Congress clamor for military intervention in Syria, “if a Delta Force guy does a raid and leaves in 30 minutes, is that boots on the ground? I’m not sure.” >>>

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/lets-kick-boots-on-the-ground-to-the-curb/?

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Let’s Kick ‘Boots on the Ground’ to the Curb. (Original Post) elleng Nov 2015 OP
while we are at it, restorefreedom Nov 2015 #1
It's a term for ground assets in battle. I thought that comment was posturing and pandering. MADem Nov 2015 #2
it didn't originate with O'Malley. It came from the mother of a service member bigtree Nov 2015 #6
It was a huge PANDER and noticing that has nothing to do with "progressive" MADem Nov 2015 #14
well, you completely missed the point bigtree Nov 2015 #36
Thank you for telling the truth, bigtree. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #40
I appreciated O'Malley tazkcmo Nov 2015 #28
So did I MaggieD Nov 2015 #19
Sure distracts from the real issues, though, doesn't it? MADem Nov 2015 #21
Aka - Cannon fodder to boost the ambtions of "strong" leaders. . Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #3
more bold and inspiring leadership from O'Malley bigtree Nov 2015 #4
Right, and there are complaints here against 'banning' a commonly used term. elleng Nov 2015 #5
two Hillary supporters bigtree Nov 2015 #11
Not at all inspiring, elleng Nov 2015 #12
So what? The NYT is where Judy Miller lived. Screw them. nt MADem Nov 2015 #16
Let me tell you what is not inspiring! leftofcool Nov 2015 #41
I think I have standing to speak as a member of the armed forces. MADem Nov 2015 #15
You have all the 'standing' you want, elleng Nov 2015 #17
If you are thinking that "banning" an oft-used shorthand term MADem Nov 2015 #18
No one is thinking of 'banning' anything, elleng Nov 2015 #20
One swallow does not make a summer--so why are you acting like it does? MADem Nov 2015 #22
O'malley made a good point which evidently got under your skin bigtree Nov 2015 #37
Please. I disagree with his pandering, that's the extent of it. MADem Nov 2015 #39
The phrase was coined by an army general... BooScout Nov 2015 #7
Use whatever terms you want, and ignore what you want. elleng Nov 2015 #8
Yes and then O'Malley tried to leverage that comment BooScout Nov 2015 #13
the 'hay' he made was that these troops' lives matter bigtree Nov 2015 #38
I'm right there with you on that. Crystalite Nov 2015 #9
Sounds like some people here are. elleng Nov 2015 #10
"Boots on the Ground", unknown soldiers, invisible coffins aspirant Nov 2015 #23
Yes, and doing it around here too. elleng Nov 2015 #24
Kudos to O'Malley for relaying this sentiment Mnpaul Nov 2015 #25
Thanks for recognizing it, Mnpaul. elleng Nov 2015 #26
Thanks for bringing it up Mnpaul Nov 2015 #27
Darn right. elleng Nov 2015 #29
Kudos to O'Malley. Thanks, elleng. nt antigop Nov 2015 #30
Thanks. You're welcome. elleng Nov 2015 #32
I have always hated that phrase...it is dehumanizing and disrespectful. Punkingal Nov 2015 #31
Yes, and some here even recognize it. elleng Nov 2015 #33
I know...I felt he listened to that mother and was sincere in what he said. Punkingal Nov 2015 #34
+1 n/t FSogol Nov 2015 #35
Thanks. elleng Nov 2015 #42

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. It's a term for ground assets in battle. I thought that comment was posturing and pandering.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:07 PM
Nov 2015

War is a sucky, shitty business. Banning a commonly used expression (that distinguishes from air assets, or Naval assets) isn't going to turn it into sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
6. it didn't originate with O'Malley. It came from the mother of a service member
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:43 PM
Nov 2015

Martin O'Malley ‏@MartinOMalley
A mother of a service member to Governor O’Malley: "My son is not a pair of boots on the ground. These are American soldiers.” #DemDebate




Gabriela Domenzain ‏@GabiDomenzain
@MartinOMalley stopped by WWII #veteran "thank you, we appreciate what you said: we're not boots on the ground."


...it's amazing to me how many progressive principles are being thrown out the window here at DU in defense of politicians. Yours is a sad and regressive view which is obviously little more than a partisan slap at Martin O'Malley for relating the sentiment of the mother in the debate.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
14. It was a huge PANDER and noticing that has nothing to do with "progressive"
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:56 PM
Nov 2015

principles. Like "progressives" can't be pro-war? Jesus--Teddy Roosevelt,
"progressive on steroids," hello????

Progressive is NOT a synonym for "liberal"--stop acting like it is. There are progressives on the Republican side of the aisle, and most of them are the "freedom FROM government" types:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/03/22/1761431/what-it-means-to-be-a-progressive-a-manifesto/

And why are you trying to tell me that MO'M didn't originate the term, and then show me a pic of some single, solitary old dude TALKING TO THAT VERY POLITICIAN as "anecdotal evidence" of a groundswell of objection?

MO'M popularized the "objection." Again--it was a pander. I won't change my view on it, either. You could call them "special snowflakes," or "happy warfighters," or "camo'd comrades," but if an enemy gets a good shot off, we call them DECEASED.

I prefer diplomacy to those boots on the ground, or drones in the air.

But we do what needs must. And changing "the words" doesn't do a thing to help. It might make a few people feel self-righteous for a minute or two. Probably not that much longer than that.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
36. well, you completely missed the point
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 09:29 AM
Nov 2015

...entirely.

It was a request from a service member's mom and I agree with her. Others do, as well. It was a call for Americans to regard these troops as more than just 'boot' or any other inanimate object; to remind us that they're flesh and blood. I don't think anyone can credibly say that sentiment is widely shared, especially by those who use and view them as little more than fodder for their reflexive militarism.

If we follow your logic, almost everything that comes from these politicians is 'pandering.' For those of us who appreciate O'Malley's expression of compassion toward the mother and the troops, it's a welcome admonition. As we've seen in many facets of our society, language does matter in our national debates. It matters to this mom, and it matters to me.

But, hell, knock yourself out fuming over it.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
40. Thank you for telling the truth, bigtree.
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 12:30 PM
Nov 2015

It's getting harder to find with each passing day here at the DU forum, it seems.

I would love it if phony, baloney politicians stopped using that phrase to refer to the troops.

Senator John McCain started using that term as a mantra whenever he referred to the troops back in the mid-90s, when Clinton was busy going after Milosevic.
And it makes me sick to hear warmongers constantly refer to the troops that way.

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
28. I appreciated O'Malley
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 01:24 AM
Nov 2015

He reminded people those boots are attached to bodies. He was speaking for all the grieving parents of fallen service members in this country. That includes me. Thank you Gov. O'Malley.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
21. Sure distracts from the real issues, though, doesn't it?
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 11:16 PM
Nov 2015

It's easy to get all huffy and puffy over a term--it distracts from actually addressing the serious issues that would cause us to contemplate doing the very thing the "term" is all about.

We have a problem in the Middle East. Someone is going to have to put their tootsies on that ground to solve it. I'm in favor of letting the locals do that work, but it's going to take a lot of negotiation and diplomacy and other types of support to make that happen. This isn't simply a Syrian issue, an Iraqi issue, or even a neighbors in Turkey and Lebanon issue. This is an issue for the world to solve.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
4. more bold and inspiring leadership from O'Malley
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:36 PM
Nov 2015

...coming from the back of the pack. Go figure that...

elleng

(130,974 posts)
5. Right, and there are complaints here against 'banning' a commonly used term.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:41 PM
Nov 2015

Ignore the interests and feelings of families of our armed service members, that's a GOOD idea, I guess (NOT!)

elleng

(130,974 posts)
12. Not at all inspiring,
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:51 PM
Nov 2015

and people apparently not noticing or caring this opinion piece comes from a NYTiimes editorial page contributor.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
41. Let me tell you what is not inspiring!
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 12:38 PM
Nov 2015

Posting a right wing article with an email about HRC being confused after a head concussion which is perfectly normal because that's what head concussions do, you know, cause some confusion because the brains gets temporarily scrambled.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
15. I think I have standing to speak as a member of the armed forces.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:57 PM
Nov 2015

How many years did you spend in uniform? Are we going to play that game?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
18. If you are thinking that "banning" an oft-used shorthand term
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 11:04 PM
Nov 2015

is going to magically stop war, I have a unicorn for sale.

People who play those "word games" ARE avoiding the reality of a tough discussion about what is going to happen next in the Middle East. While everyone is fretting over finding a "new word" there are going to be plenty of sandals, sneakers, and rubber shoes on the ground, shooting up villages, killing men, women and children left and right, and causing mayhem. But hey--let's whine about a common term, because that's "important."



There's a reason the guy is in 3rd place--he doesn't have the bubble.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
20. No one is thinking of 'banning' anything,
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 11:10 PM
Nov 2015

consequently no reason for you to whine, but public figures are encouraged to change their rhetoric to account for the feelings of family members, but can't have that, can we?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
22. One swallow does not make a summer--so why are you acting like it does?
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 11:18 PM
Nov 2015

"Family members," my left boot.

One person, and MO'M used an anecdote to get out of offering a substantive policy position.

It was OBVIOUS what he did, and why.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
37. O'malley made a good point which evidently got under your skin
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 09:37 AM
Nov 2015

..recognizing the politics you're practicing on this thread, obviously in favor of your candidate of choice, I'm increasingly less concerned about your criticisms. Apparently, your candidate is pure gold and O'Malley isn't squat to you. So he doesn't have your support. I'm full up with the way you're putting him down. Good riddance to your support, I say. Best of luck with your candidate.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
39. Please. I disagree with his pandering, that's the extent of it.
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 12:13 PM
Nov 2015

It's not going to help him get elected, in fact, it's just one more distraction. He's not the guy who can give us answers as to what we should actually DO "on the ground" in the middle east, because he wants to fight about "terms" used instead of addressing the ugly, major conflict itself.

That was a 'feint and pivot' move and it was obvious.

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
7. The phrase was coined by an army general...
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:44 PM
Nov 2015

Are we supposed to also stop using such terms as 'boot camp' too? I've heard plenty of veterans use the term 'boots on the ground'.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
8. Use whatever terms you want, and ignore what you want.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:47 PM
Nov 2015

'A mother of a service member to Governor O’Malley: "My son is not a pair of boots on the ground. These are American soldiers.”'

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
13. Yes and then O'Malley tried to leverage that comment
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:54 PM
Nov 2015

To make political hay whilst he could. In the grand scheme of things, a phrase coined by a soldier to describe troops going into battle and kill people is not exactly at the top of my list of things to complain about.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
38. the 'hay' he made was that these troops' lives matter
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 10:32 AM
Nov 2015

...and it was a clear signal, to anyone who cared to notice, that he intends to treat these men and women in the military as more than pawns in a political game.

 

Crystalite

(164 posts)
9. I'm right there with you on that.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:47 PM
Nov 2015

Are we so proud and clueless that we can sit here with increasing numbers of families facing poverty, veterans committing suicide every damned day, the environment collapsing, and still go about the globe fighting endless wars with "boots on the ground"

I guess we are.

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
25. Kudos to O'Malley for relaying this sentiment
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 01:15 AM
Nov 2015

"boots on the ground" is dehumanizing the soldiers who put their lives on the line. It makes them sound like just another piece of equipment.

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
27. Thanks for bringing it up
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 01:24 AM
Nov 2015

We need to realize that they are fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. We have to demand that they not be put in harms way unless it absolutely needed and only as a last resort. They should not be used to continue 60+ years of failed foreign policy in the Middle East.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
33. Yes, and some here even recognize it.
Wed Nov 18, 2015, 02:56 AM
Nov 2015

Others, on the other hand, just want to slam Governor O'Malley for showing respect.

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