My friends in the North that support Hillary Clinton

[Aerows]

particularly our friends to the North in Canada that support Hillary Clinton, I ask you to look at things from the perspective of a person that lives way South of you in the US.

I know some wonderful Canadian friends, and they are just about the most caring, determined and resourceful people I know. So I ask my neighbors to the North to consider a few things.

Before you judge why I support Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton, let me elucidate why I feel the way I do and the stark realities we have looming in front of us in the US.

Probably 90% of Americans would gladly hand you our government if we got adequate health care and weren't drowning in medical debt.

Most of us would probably hand you our government for student loans, too, which we are now indentured servants because they cannot be wiped in a bankruptcy. I just barely escaped that fate, but far too many have not. They are *permanently* indebted for merely getting an education.

Can I have your Parliament and sensible laws? Can I pay taxes knowing that no one is going to be denied an education or healthcare, without them being permanently financially in the hole, bailing out a boat with a spoon? I escaped that fate. Most didn't or my generation.

Can I pay taxes knowing that they will be invested in my country and not bombing someone else's?

I'll take your government in a heart beat.

Please don't ask me to vote for Hillary Clinton because for far too many in the wealthiest country in the world, we are on life support.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. What a strange post.

People in Canada know a lot about US politics and are certainly entitled to their opinion. If they think Hillary is the best choice, that's their opinion.

They have every right to advocate for Hillary or Bernie Sanders here.

Hell, the founder of this website is a Hillary supporter.

[oasis]

2. Hillary is known and respected throughout the world. No surprise.

[JonLeibowitz]

3. They do but...

several of the comments on this DU thread were out of line: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251823490

I suspect that is what this OP is referring to.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. I trashcanned that turd OP

No better place for it.

[trueblue2007]

56. mean mean mean !!!!!!

hillary hater

[JonLeibowitz]

4. +1 My thoughts exactly. Thanks for this OP!

I get quite frustrated with others telling me how I must vote, especially in the primary. All while claiming to be a Sanders "supporter" from Canada at that!

Yeah, and if you believe that I have this bridge...

[Aerows]

5. It frustrates me to be belittled

by Canadians who think Hillary Clinton should be fait accompli our next President.

I have some very real concerns about the future of our country. I have some very real questions about where we are headed. I question Hillary Clinton's leadership skills - not because she is a woman, but because she has lately been playing fast and loose with things that are purely not true in order to make herself look "tough".

I wouldn't be worth the oxygen I used with a breath if I didn't take it seriously and honestly want something better.

I understand how citizens other nations can have opinions, but I *live* and many, unfortunately, *die* under the laws of my nation.

That's reality.

[ismnotwasm]

35. Now I understand the depths of your dislike

If you think Hillary has a need to make herself "look tough"

Personally, I AM very tough, although I don't worry about it much, and I assume Hillary is a much stronger person than I am. It has never occurred to me (aside from the ridiculous sexist dog whistles I read, which isn't what you are doing) that she would have that need or desire.

[senz]

42. Something about that Canadian post from yesterday

had a satirical ring. I believe it was the tone. She could easily have been spoofing some of our righties with their "it's all over" attitude/strategy.

But I like your OP, regardless, Aerows. Makes good points, as always.

[Aerows]

52. Thank you, senz

It may have been a spoof, but Poe's law goes in effect and you never know

[sabrina 1]

71. I'm just glad Canadians finally kicked out their Neocon enabler, Harper!

That's the trend now worldwide. Neocons/libs being kicked out, see the UK, Greece, Canada and being replaced with people who care about people.

[Aerows]

127. Me too!

I think the world has gotten a belly full of neocons, and are sick enough to do something about it.

[pnwmom]

6. I love Canada. But I don't love their clearcutting or the way

Victoria is allowed to dump untreated sewage into the ocean.

Every country has its flaws, including Canada.

(And every candidate has her or her flaws, as well. But the gulf between any Dem candidate and any Rethug is vast.)


http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/sewage-treatment-victorias-constipated-political-process-needs-fixing/

EVERY day, Victoria, B.C., and its suburbs flush 21 million gallons of raw sewage into the Strait of Georgia and Strait of Juan de Fuca. To put that in perspective, it’s seven times the volume of the toxic mining spill in the Animas River in Colorado — every day. And as Victoria booms, the flow increases.

This has been Victoria’s foul problem for decades. But years of ridicule and a 1993 tourism boycott didn’t end this neglectful approach to sewage treatment. A turd-shaped mascot named Mr. Floatie (it’s worth Googling) added to the theater of the absurd.

Finally, in 2006, with the Vancouver 2010 Olympics looming, then-Gov. Chris Gregoire applied acute political pressure, and the Canadians finally promised to get their, uh, act together.

A promised sewage-treatment plant was supposed to open in 2016. Then in 2018. Those plans blew up last year when a local zoning change was denied, and the British Columbia government failed to step in, prompting a righteous protest from Gov. Jay Inslee.

Today, the Victoria region is back to square one, with no treatment plant on the horizon. The failure is an embarrassment for stately Victoria, and it undermines the

[Aerows]

57. I am certain that there will always be

regional difficulties within areas on the border of nations. That by no means makes us unable to have a discussion with other governments.

It also doesn't mean anything to me since I am the one living under the laws of my land and going into the voting booth of my land.

That is what a vote is.

[MrWendel]

7. I think....

You give us WAY more credit that we deserve. Like we are going to tip the balance of the election one way or another. I do have allot of family in the states though. All seem to want Hillary for President. She lines up with allot of my views. And quite frankly she is more than qualified to be commander in chief.

That said, as we were.

[Aerows]

12. I don't like Hillary Clinton's policy platform

I am, after all, one of the people that is going to be living under it, so I can appreciate why those that won't, think she is great.

If you *have* health care and don't live in poverty after acquiring a student loan for an education, you really need to take a step back and evaluate what it is that is making your nation great. Health care and education produce a positive society.

As an American citizen, I wish to every thing that is holy, under the sun, and to all deities that we start taking care of our nation at home, because it is necessary.

[boston bean]

25. I'm going to live under it and I am going to be dancing a jig, celebrating, feeling ecstatic,

hopeful, at ease, and proud when she becomes the next president of the united states.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. While many millions in the US die without health care

As more grow cold and hungry from 'free' trade and banker uber alles, and more of our kids become casualties from a foreign policy that has, to date, been indistinguishable from that of the neocons.

[MrWendel]

40. Ironic...

that your talking about neocons and yet with that statement your fear mongering like one.

[MannyGoldstein]

64. Was there anything specific that there's not evidence for?

Or are you just flailing?

[senz]

75. Your sig line is ironic.

[MrWendel]

121. So is yours.

[senz]

43. Well said, Mr. Goldstein. Very, very true.

So much hangs in the balance with this election. The choice -- the real choice -- is happening in the Democratic primary. We're it, whether the rest of he nation knows it or not.

We are deciding America's future.

[Aerows]

68. Manny says it well

as did you, senz. *WE* are deciding America's future.

[BeanMusical]

113. Hillary should really do something about that dandruff problem.

[merrily]

126. And, she's claiming she's going to be able to work with Repubs in a year better than Bernie will.

Not to mention calling them the enemy of which she is most proud.

Any wonder she didn't get bills she wrote passed unless they were ceremonial?

Meanwhile:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251715777

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027637

[Aerows]

129. It is ironic

is it not?

[merrily]

130. Yip.

[Mnpaul]

132. If Bernie was President

Ted Cruz would not be challenging the President to debate face to face.

[merrily]

133. I'm not sure. Cruz is supposedly very smart.

[Mnpaul]

134. Bernie goes head to head with Wallace and O'Reilly

Cruz is minor league and would only make a fool of himself.

If you don't believe me watch the videos. This was from early May 2015(before Bernie announced). Pay close attention to what O"Reilly says at the :50 mark. Bernie takes control of the conversation and shuts O'Reilly out.

[Hepburn]

34. Far too hawkish for me and this is one of my biggest criticisms of her.

As a U.S. ally, please remember that if she decides to go to war, your young men and women will spill blood along with ours. In my opinion, she is of the three Democratic candidates the least qualified to be commander in chief in that she appears to hold the mistaken belief that "war IS the answer." As a war protestor starting with VN when I was in college, I saw far too much what happened to many of my friends. Some did not come back and those who did...well, I really don't want to go into that.

Peace.

[Aerows]

49. Indeed, Hepburn

Canadians will be spilling blood right along with our sons and daughters.

I am by no means a pacifist, but I do not believe that Clinton will be as judicious in the use of force as more measured politicians like Bernie Sanders and our current President Obama. We have many problems at home that need to be attended to before we go stirring up another graveyard.

[MADem]

8. The Canadians just got rid of one of the most rightwing PMs they've ever endured.

Picture George W. Bush....only for longer.

It's not all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows north of the border. They've got work to do.

[Aerows]

14. The point is, though

that all of this was already there under right wingers.

What do *we* get under rightwingers?

[MADem]

38. What do we get under rightwingers?

You lived through 2001-2008, did you not?

1. War without end, Amen.
2. Abrogation of federal stem cell research.
3. Attempts to roll back woman's right to choose.
4. Terri Schiavo.
5. Terra/Terra/Terra--color coded fear.

That's just for starters. If you didn't feel the Hope and Change when Obama was elected, I can't help you.

[Aerows]

51. What is different now?

1. Already still there
2. Lunatics are always going to decry science.
3. Already they still are.
4. I don't have any idea how that has anything to do with the Presidency
5. War war war war war war war ......

As a matter of fact, I am actually quite pleased that I voted for President Obama, because he has at least been far more measured that I ever think Hillary Clinton would as a President.

After all, it is just the little people spilling the blood. President Obama has done his damnedest to keep that from happening, and that is exactly why I am glad we dodged that bullet by electing him, and why I wish to dodge that bullet a second time by voting for Sanders.

[MADem]

53. Your glass will always be half empty. If you think Obama has

done nothing in his time in office, you go on and think that.

And if you're pleased you voted for him, what are you griping about?

I get the idea you'd like to line up the right wing and eradicate them.

A vigorous democratic society hears from all sides, even the ones we despise on principle.

No bird flies on one wing, haven't you heard that expression?

[Aerows]

58. I am grateful for President Obama

I'm hoping to help our nation to extend his legacy further by voting for Bernie Sanders.

[MADem]

60. I think a better hope for continuation of his legacy is through his SECSTATE as opposed to a back

bencher.

[Aerows]

61. Opinions differ.

Here's where yours and mine do so.

[bravenak]

120. No shit. I have decided not to waste my tine on folks who refuse to give Obama one bit of credit.

They seem to forget how fucked we were as they sneer down on him from on high. As they prop up a guy who barely got a damn thing done in his forty years in government legislating. Nothing he does will ever be good enough for some people. They did not listen to a damn thing he said, or they take it out of context and expect him to be their ideological twin.

[Mickey de Mouse]

28. I'd like to note that the Canadian polls were completely wrong.

I wonder what got Trudeau elected. I keep hearing that Harper would be re-elected from every Canadian and his moose.

[polly7]

30. What got Trudeau elected??

A nation sick and tired! of neocon policies, Harper's love for war, the 1% and his global overlords, his treating the environment like a toilet, his hatred of our health-care system, abusive policies towards First Nations Peoples and ignoring treaties .... and on and on and on. Social media and all the dirty ads against Trudeau played a large part, too.

Stephen Harper - "When I'm finished with Canada you won't even recognize it". - It almost worked. Fuck him and the pump-jack he rode in on.

[Mickey de Mouse]

31. Exactly. I think the U.S. is in an anti-establishment mood too.

[polly7]

32. From what I've seen in a lot of places on the web ........ I think so, too.

There seems to be a sense of urgency in many nations around the world right now. The status quo as we've known it is not sustainable, even for the countries least at risk. imho.

[Aerows]

62. Do what you have always done

and you get what you've always gotten.

That is the mindset that *many* are in.

[MADem]

36. Uh, no, they were not. The polls said Harper was in trouble.

Not sure where you were getting your information. The polls were entirely accurate about what Canada wanted--and that was NOT Harper.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2015/10/14/the-new-trudeau-will-canada-throw-out-conservative-prime-minister-harper-in-monday-election/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34568497

http://globalnews.ca/news/2199316/more-about-change-new-ipsos-poll-shows-most-voters-ok-with-mulcair-trudeau-minority-just-not-harper/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-on-track-for-majority-unless-technical-correction-hits/article26839826/

http://news.yahoo.com/canada-starts-voting-key-legislative-elections-002856832.html

[Aerows]

70. I'm honestly not sure

who you are debating with at this point, MADem. It seems like some in this thread agree with you, but then you disagree with them just to start debating yourself, my friend.

Looks like you needed one.

[MADem]

107. Huh? I have been consistent in saying that Harper sucks, and isn't

it great that he finally started going down in the polls after all these years of hellish rule, and was--at long last-- tossed out on his ass.

Not sure where you're getting this "debating yourself" stuff. The poster I was responding to said the polls indicated that the outcome of the contest was in question, when it wasn't at all. That's just stubborn fact.

[Tortmaster]

9. Those Canadians!

Always right about things.

[Aerows]

13. I would be willing to bet

as I said, 90% of Americans, when they got over the tax bill and realized that they didn't have to go bankrupt because they got sick, their parents became ill or simply because junior wants an education would be pleased with the way your country is run.

[Tortmaster]

20. I'm not Canadian. n/t

[Aerows]

21. If I may be so bold, then,

your nationality, and country you are eligible to vote in (if your country votes)?

[Oilwellian]

123. Yes, Canada represents all that is right in the world

[Skidmore]

10. I was having a chat last night with a friend who lives in Australia.

She was telling me that she thought Hillary was the best candidate and hopes she wins because Sanders' lack of foreign policy chops is glaringly observable from afar.

She finds the entire Repulican Party offerings frightening and largely ignorant.

[Aerows]

11. This is my country, though, and it is my choice

who to vote for.

I have illustrated strong reasons why I prefer Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton, and I don't have to justify it to anyone.

It annoys me to be harangued by people that don't even live under US Law to tell me why I'm dumb to vote for my own candidates.

[Skidmore]

15. It's my country too and

I welcome the opinions of those outside of the country as well. Those opinions were very appreciated during the Bush years and they are welcome now.

[Aerows]

16. I have a very different opinion

You and I, assuming you are an American citizen, are the ones going into the voting booth to determine our future.

[Skidmore]

18. I am an American citizen.

We live in a larger context than just this nation. I will take an informed decision in the voting booth. Americans have a tendency to navel gaze and exclude the larger picture of the greater world and how we fit into it.

[Aerows]

19. I vote in the context of an American citizen.

That is my obligation.

[Skidmore]

22. We need to do both.

Some of our larger problems now are because we did not take into account the greater world, whether they be geopolitical issues or environmental ones.

[Aerows]

23. My obligation

is to vote for the people I view as the best leaders that could produce a positive outcome.

That is why I will vote for Sanders in the Primary and I am sure I will be voting for him in the GE as the nominee because far too many people that I talk to, even in conservative areas, warm to his plain-spoken message.

[daybranch]

24. Maybe you believe this because you accept authority of position

too easily. Bernie knows more about what matters in foreign policy than Hillary. His claiming of climate change as promoting terrorism is well backed by CIA reports. His claiming that climate change is the biggest threat we face is well backed by the military in their threat documents. So when someone says something that you do not expect does not mean he is wrong but possibly you are receiving true and valuable information he or she feels you should have to make informed judgments. If you continue to believe that neocon like Hillary will tell you anything that does not support their personal agenda , you will likely continue to be very confused on the truth. Go Bernie!

[Skidmore]

45. Let me suggest that you don't know me well enough

to make that sort of judgment about me. I've followed all of the candidates closely for some time. I don't believe all that any of them say. Because Sanders articulates something that has been said by others before does not make him more knowledgable nor in possession of "the truth." I'm looking at efficacy on a broader stage right now.

[MaggieD]

48. So we're back to the "you're stupid if you don't support Bernie" meme

How's that working out for him so far?

[William769]

65. Madam President will set you and Bernie straight.

[Aerows]

73. With all due respect, William

there is less probability of me being "straight" than ∞.

[William769]

74. me too, just a figure of speech.

[Aerows]

88. Got to keep a sense of humor!

[George II]

69. If he knows more about foreign policy than Clinton does, he is keeping it a BIG secret!

[marble falls]

27. In light of the way the major media outlets ignore Bernie, I understand how she might well....

be under this misconception. And foreign policy is only one portfolio. Are you also suggesting Bernie would not be able to call on Hillary's expertise if he became President?

[Aerows]

66. The implication that a President is an island

is indeed, silly.

I have no doubts that President Bernie Sanders will make use of every available resource and the expertise of other people to guide our country well.

I also think, however, he has backbone enough to tell those who attempt to push him into decisions that, after evaluation, are bad decisions, "No."

Obama has said "No." Despite a fire shed of disagreement, he hasn't tossed us into WWIII. That is what in the hell I think many people are trying to prevent by electing Sanders.

[marble falls]

114. I agree. There's a lot at stake.

[senz]

39. Congressional representatives are quite knowledgeable about foreign policy.

They pass the laws that finance and control it, you know. Half a century in Congress and the Senate, especially for anyone as serious and conscientious as Bernie, makes a person aware and knowledgeable about the rest of the world.

Another factor is good sense. Bernie knew that invading Iraq was a bad idea, and he knew the reasons why, and he was right.

Judgement matters.

[George II]

46. Half a century? You might want to edit that.

[senz]

54. lol -- quarter of a century.

[Aerows]

131. Judgment does, indeed matter

I support Bernie Sanders because I have appreciated his consistency and his approach that is always measured, and intertwined with kindness.

[George II]

47. It's amazing how aware people in other countries are of our government and politics. ...

...much more in some cases than many Americans.

[Aerows]

17. Register to vote

if you are an American citizen and make your own voice heard. After all, it is *YOU* who will have to live with the laws our country passes, enforces and instates.

[msrizzo]

26. I'm asked to vote for Bernie Sanders all the time.

I have friends in NZ, UK, and elsewhere who barrage me on FB with Bernie Sanders posts because I have had the audacity to post a few Hillary positive articles. It happens. Most encounters are noncombative, but a few are. It's just the way some people roll.

[polly7]

29. Good, thoughtful post, Aerows.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Aerows]

77. Thank you Polly

I endeavor to bring my best .

[treestar]

33. I imagine most Canadians on DU understand the difference

between the systems of government, and know we are under disadvantage when it comes to forward chance. The Senate we have practically stands for the idea of resisting change. The Founders were somewhat anti-government in the sense we would think of today. So we only get things with a huge majority, and we'd need that for single payer, and we still don't have it. Parliamentary system conservatives had to suck it up - they don't seem able to get rid of it even when they are in power. Progress is natural. But our conservatives gets to drag us back for the longest time possible.

[OilemFirchen]

41. Government debt has never been dischargeable in a bankruptcy.

Did you obtain your student debt privately? Do students now?

I honestly don't know the answer to this question and would love elucidation.

[Aerows]

55. I got my education on scholarship

As did my sister.

I mentioned I dodged that bullet. Many did not.

Are people that aren't athletes or prodigies not allowed an education suddenly?

[OilemFirchen]

59. Good for you.

Mine was via scholarships, work-study, grants, loans and multiple jobs.

I merely asked a question, about which I don't know the answer.

Thanks anyway.

[Aerows]

63. I answered adequately, I hope

But also asked why you have to be "special" to get an education without throwing your life away to financial debt.

Too many have already done so, and can't turn back the clock. Too many are currently doing so, and don't know how to stop it.

That's wrong no matter how you slice it.

[OilemFirchen]

72. You have me confused with an hallucination.

I have no idea why you're attempting to browbeat me about something I've never mentioned.

I asked a question based on this - from your OP:

Most of us would probably hand you our government for student loans, too, which we are now indentured servants because they cannot be wiped in a bankruptcy. I just barely escaped that fate, but far too many have not..

With my emphasis.

It seemed that you were implying that you "escaped that fate" by discharging your debt in a bankruptcy. Apparently that implication was incorrect. Chalk it up to either a misreading on my part or a poorly constructed sentence on yours.

[Aerows]

76. Let me elaborate

The law that was passed that made student debt ineligible to be released under filing bankruptcy passed in the late 90's. Under another Clinton.

I apologize for not being more clear about my particular beef, because while it does not affect me, it affects many people that I know.

I did not need to discharge my debt (because I had none) - but there are millions that are essentially, as I said, indentured servants at this point to educational debt.

That was my point - I'm sorry I didn't point the finger directly at the other Clinton, I just figured that most already knew that at this point. I guess not.

That's why I don't want another Clinton for starters.

[OilemFirchen]

79. Thanks for returning to the subject.

Student debt, to my knowledge, has never been dischargeable.

I have personal experience with this, dating to the early 80s.

[Aerows]

80. Student debt was absolutely

subject to being discharged if you submitted to bankruptcy and had no assets until 1995.

You can have absolutely no assets and still be liable if you had debts prior to that.

I can bring up the exact law and exactly why it became valid while Bill Clinton was President if you will wait a while, but I am not in the mood to research something that you can research for yourself and go "Oh shit, Aerows is right", then pretend that I'm not.

So let's spare each other that, but if you insist, after I cook dinner, I'll pull it up and then you can go "Oh shit, Aerows is right" and again, pretend that I'm not.

Pick one.

[OilemFirchen]

86. Our mistake.

Student debt was dischargeable until 1976.

Before 1976, all education loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. That year, the bankruptcy code was altered so loans made by the government or a non-profit college or university could not be discharged during the first five years of repayment. They could, however, be discharged if they had been in repayment for five years or if the borrower experienced “undue hardship.

Circa 1984, no discharges, no exceptions:

Then, the Bankruptcy Amendments and Federal Judgeship Act of 1984 made it so all private student loans were excepted from discharge too.

Who was in office during those years?

[jeff47]

78. Sure it has.

For example, the IRS will settle for pennies on the dollar in bankruptcy. Same with lots of other government debt.

Student loans, on the other hand, are due in full.

[OilemFirchen]

81. Settling is not discharging.

Regardless of the amount, you still have to pay up.

Student debt can also be negotiated with a drop-dead date. That is not to say that the program is ideal, but it does exist.

[jeff47]

82. What do you think happens with the rest of the debt? It's discharged.

Federal law requires the IRS to settle for less than they are owed.

That isn't true with student loan debt. In fact, the program you cite just reduces the monthly payments while not paying the debt off. The only way it gets discharged is if you spend your entire adult life with shitty credit because of unpaid student loan debt.

[Aerows]

84. That poster is just blowing smoke

That's why I didn't even bother looking up the law. I have better things to do that fool around refuting somebody that either knows better and is looking to be obtuse, or someone that *doesn't* know better, and *should*.

[jeff47]

85. Well, when the law and the facts are not on your side, you have to do something creative. (nt)

[OilemFirchen]

94. You should be so creative.

Wanna do something useful? Show me cites which contradict the ones I've provided.

[Aerows]

96. The thing I think I love the most is the

"Oh damn, you are right, but I have a fist full of straws!"

Why is telling the truth such a damn battle?

[OilemFirchen]

92. THAT'S why you "didn't even bother looking up the law"?

Huh.

I figured it was something else.

Perhaps you should have.

[OilemFirchen]

90. The rest of the debt stays with you for the remainder of your life.

Then passes on to your heirs.

Government debt cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy, period.

I've already stated that the student loan remediation process is less than ideal, but it's not true that your creditworthiness is impacted by it. If you maintain the payments, the debt won't be negatively reported.

Will IBR hurt my credit rating?

No. The only information lenders provide to FICO, the company that determines your credit score, is the status of your payments. That is, if you are paying on time, are past due, or are in default. The Department of Education will work with the consumer reporting organizations to ensure that any amounts of debt forgiven under IBR or PSLF are not viewed as negative reporting codes.

[jeff47]

93. LOL. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Then passes on to your heirs.

Yeah...that's actually explicitly banned in the Constitution. Debt dies with the debt holder.

When the IRS settles, they take the settlement amount and write off the rest. So no, it does not "stay with you for the rest of your life". The debt is considered paid. It will hit your credit score for several years, because it's a debt that was not paid in full, but eventually that too "falls off".

but it's not true that your creditworthiness is impacted by it. If you maintain the payments, the debt won't be negatively reported.

The amount of debt is also reported. Guess what affects your credit score? Having a debt to income ratio so bad that you qualify for the program you cite.

[OilemFirchen]

97. "The rest of the debt."

Those are your words, pal.

If you settle, your debt is gone. No need to discharge it, it doesn't exist. If there's a "rest of the debt" it must be paid.

Now, in order:

Debt upon death, if pursued within a reasonable time, is paid from the deceased's assets. Thus, the heirs pay the debt. If there are inadequate assets, the debt dies. What's "explicitly banned in the Constitution"? Please provide a cite.

No, the amount of your student debt is not reported to credit agencies.

Carry on...

[jeff47]

112. Yes...when they settle for less than the full amount, something has to happen to the rest

and it's discharged.

Debt upon death, if pursued within a reasonable time, is paid from the deceased's assets. Thus, the heirs pay the debt.

Nope. The debt is paid before the heirs receive the assets. Therefore, it isn't the heirs paying, it is the estate paying. That's where that "reasonable time" bit you tried to bring up comes from - part of settling the estate is paying off debts before the rest goes to the heirs. Because you can't make the heirs pay.

No, the amount of your student debt is not reported to credit agencies.

So all three credit reporting agencies found out the amount of my student debt via magic?

[Aerows]

115. You have absolutely no idea, "pal"

What you are talking about.

I've had a 70$ credit from a clothing store on my report before and had to pay it before I would get a favorable credit score for a car. It is worse if you want a home.

You, pal, have no idea.

[OilemFirchen]

117. With all due deference...

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Aerows]

124. With all due respect

relating real world facts.

[Aerows]

98. Debt to income ratio

Precisely.

[Aerows]

108. I've come to the conclusion

that this one isn't worth either of us wasting our intellect on.

I have other things to do.

Thanks for trying, though, my friend. Aerows

[Aerows]

116. Look at OF, overjoyed for debt to be passed on to heirs!!!

Do you realize why 1776 happened?

"The child must pay for the father's sins."

You, are way out of bounds.

[OilemFirchen]

118. This is satire, right?

Please tell me this is satire.

[Aerows]

122. I actually have no further need

jeff47 dominated your argument like a pack of wolves.

[Aerows]

83. Thank you for saying

"jeff47 and Aerows are absolutely right" without the "Oh shit, my argument got dismantled" equivocating.

[OilemFirchen]

87. Absolutely right about what? (n/t)

[Aerows]

89. LMAO n/t

[OilemFirchen]

91. Ha ha ha!

[Aerows]

100. Nothing about this is funny

The people and those who care about them are caught up in this mess.

Do you think we are just moaning and griping for no reason? Are we complaining about student loan debt just because we didn't have a nice day?

Have mercy.

[OilemFirchen]

103. So your LMFAO was meant sympathetically?

Fucking weird.

[Aerows]

105. Now you want sympathy?

Good grief.

[OilemFirchen]

110. LMFAO.

[Aerows]

95. Exactly what I stated.

I already knew you would go "Oh shit jeff47 and Aerows are right" then bring up bullshit to pretend we didn't flat out state how the law changed in 1995.

1976 is before 1995, correct?

[OilemFirchen]

99. Dude, I agreed that we were both wrong.

What happened in 1995?

[Aerows]

102. We were not "both" wrong.

You were.

Look it up.

[OilemFirchen]

104. The law changed in 1984.

I already looked it up, and I cited it to you.

What happened in 1995?

[Aerows]

106. Do your research.

I'm not doing it for you.

[OilemFirchen]

109. About what?

What was my original question?

[NCTraveler]

50. My friends in the North that support Hillary Clinton

You rock!!!!!!!

[MrWendel]

67. Thank you.

[orpupilofnature57]

101. + 10000!!!!!!

[Aerows]

111. Just spoke

from the heart.

[BeanMusical]

119. Kick and R

[Aerows]

125. Thank you for the kick :) n/t

[Aerows]

128. Posted without comment, but I sure wish Juror 2 would send me a pm.

My friends in the North that support Hillary Clinton
> > http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251823587
> >
> > REASON FOR ALERT
> >
> > This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
> >
> > ALERTER'S COMMENTS
> >
> > This is a direct call out of DU member George II under the guys of writing a post for Canadians. This nefarious attempt should be stopped. This could devolve very rapidly into "our friends from X state" with mudslinging and should not be allowed on DU.
> >
> > You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Nov 18, 2015, 07:53 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
> >
> > Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: No explanation given
> > Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: Firstly, many of the most vocal supporters of Hillary Clinton on this board are Canadian, at least by their own admission; this post could apply to many of them. Secondly, the post itself is devoid of insults or attacks, and even if this post is designed to be read solely by George II, I would not judge it over the top, rude or insulting. Thirdly, "Our friends from X state" already happens and has been happening for a long while; it is not out of the ordinary nor considered unacceptable by current Community Standards.
> >
> > All of that is my reasoned and relatively non-partisan examination of the post in question. For a final bit of explanation, I have access to the Clinton Cave in full; George II doesn't deserve to be posting here at all given his support for racist and sexist views and participation in coordinated, targeted attacks against Democratic Underground as a whole and its members individually. George II is no more a "DU member" than Rimjob of Free Republic, with both directly opposed to the interests of this board as a whole.
> >
> > To the alerter: Please do not assume your jurors are ignorant of the meta of this board as a whole. It does you a disservice and insults those who you're calling upon with these alerts.
> >
> > I rather proudly vote to leave it.
> > Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: A. It's "guise" B. There's nothing at all wrong with this post. It's civil, reasoned, and totally acceptable (unlike many of George II's flamebait posts, btw).
> > Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: No explanation given
> > Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: I hate it when people post while under guys.
> > Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: No explanation given
> > Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > Explanation: For those of us DUers who don't get drawn into the cult of personalities that is ever-present on DU, this post is about as inoffensive as it gets.
> >
> > Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[sibelian]

135. Ugh. Canadian liberals...

#NotAllCanadians, natch...

There's a certain brand of Canadian liberal that are just plain JERKS. They get their opinions out of an enormous Thank Goodness I'm Not American sticker album and think that Not Being American means there's no such thing as the Ugly Canadian, which there certainly is. Many times they're even more ignorant and patronising than their cousins "down below", presuming their nationality immunises them against bring pricks.

My aunt's one of them. She thinks me being gay is a colossal "burden" that I didn't ask for! lol Very happy to tell me what my social status is. "Lived experience" from one direction, "anecdotal" from the other.

Useless.

[Aerows]

136. Please don't go there

I am very much gay (lesbian) and I do not wish under any sun, moon or star to make our lives more difficult.

[sibelian]

137. OK, fair enough.

I will hold my tongue...