2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhich part of the Clinton legacy would Hillary embrace? DOMA? NAFTA? Welfare "reform"?
I like Bill Clinton; he did many great things. I like Hillary Clinton; she has also accomplished great things. But if the primary is about ideology, the Clintons fall near the mid-point between my views and Jeb Bush's views.
We are entitled to campaign for a more progressive candidate.
Also, we need not have blinders to the fact that Bill Clinton was not a particularly liberal President, and we are right to ask where Hillary Clinton stands on issues where Bill Clinton left a legacy disappointing to progressive and liberal Democrats:
1. the Defense of Marriage Act
2. the North American Free Trade Agreement
3. deregulation of the financial industries
4. a worse welfare system than under Ronald Reagan
5. harsh criminal sentencing without judicial discretion (and the explosion of the private prison industry)
6. expanded use of the death penalty
7. expanded use of drug possession criminalization
If Bill Clinton was disappointing on these issues, why should we expect Hillary Clinton to serve as our standard bearer on issues of key importance to many of us?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)or the 2015 version.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You can disregard everything Hillary has said so far in this race. That is your right.
But the majority like what she stands for.
You are the minority.
When she is President we will have every right to judge her as we did Bill Clinton.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)If Hillary's 8 years in the WH were getting her ready for her own presidency, then she owns these things. If they weren't, then don't count them as experience.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)because her past is her past and the best window into what she'll do in the future as President. She's the ultimate politician and will say anything to get elected, and will do anything to keep the money flowing into her bank account from Wall Street.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)If this is true, why is it not represented on a forum like DU? Are you sure your polls are actually polling the right people? DU is probably made up of mostly voters.
We have the right to judge her now. It would be silly to buy a product and then get it home and "judge" whether or not it is any good. That's why Consumer Reports is so popular, and consumer reviews on Amazon. You get a feel for the good and bad qualities of a product before you buy it. Same should be true of candidates, but unfortunately, you can't go so much by what they say when campaigning (as has been proven over and over again) unless what they say when campaigning matches their history as a politician or public figure.
And yes, some evolution is good and necessary over time, but too much evolution right before a big race is a huge red flag.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)We want to know if his wife will continue/revive then in fact or in spirit.
has she ever said he was wrong and she didn't support them?
Baitball Blogger
(46,737 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)
speeches both tout her experience and accomplishments as part of the Clinton administration as a big part of her qualifications to serve as President, right?
Is this a thing she gets to use when it benefits her and yet it's off limits when others raise questions related to her role in the Clinton presidency?
If it is fair to ask Jeb Bush how his administration would differ from his brother's and how he would have approached issues differently from the way his brother approached those issues, how is it not fair to ask Hillary Clinton similar questions about her husband's administration which she proudly served and which is experience she touts as part of her qualifications?
frylock
(34,825 posts)anything positive was because of Hilllary, while anything negative was at the behest of Obama.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I, too, have noticed that.
It's always somebody else's fault.
That's a really bad sign in my view.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Maybe some folks believe in the literal creation story and believe Hillary is just an extension of her husband as Eve was made from Adam's rib.
jhart3333
(332 posts)That deal's off now?
votesparks
(1,288 posts)NAFTA
"Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillarys-nafta-lie/
CRIME BILL
"As First Lady, Clinton lobbied for her husband's crime bill, which (among other things) encouraged states to enact harsher sentencing statutes and expanded the list of crimes subject to the federal death penalty."
"HRC - At the time, there were reasons why the Congress wanted to push through a certain set of penalties and increase prison construction and there was a lot of support for that across a lot of communities. Its hard to remember now but the crime rate in the early 1990s was very high. But weve got to take stock now of the consequences, so thats why I want to have a thorough review of all of the penalties, of all the kinds of sentencing, and more importantly start having more diversion and having more second chance programs."
Despite statements like that on the campaign trail, however, Clinton did not introduce or rally behind any legislation to this effect during her remaining U.S. Senate tenure.
https://reason.com/blog/2014/12/05/hillary-clinton-response-eric-garner#.8927wdl:YPAL
WELFARE REFORM
"Despite the human costs of welfare reform, Bill Clinton is still bragging about knocking people off welfare and Hillary has neither repudiated nor disavowed the 1996 Clinton welfare legislation, which has been a catastrophe for the black community. Hillary Clinton not only supported the 1996 legislation, but as recently as her 2008 presidential campaign, publicly supported it, expressing no regret about how it turned out and telling the New York Times she thought the act was necessary and enormously successful."
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/racial-justice-failures-hillary-clinton-cant-ignore
There's three on the list she gets to own
Blus4u
(608 posts)your post raises legitimate questions, counselor,
Good post.
Peace
oasis
(49,389 posts)Hillary is definitely not for rolling back the clock. That would be cuckoo.
AJH032
(1,124 posts)I noticed this on DU a long time ago, that when referencing welfare reform, "reform" is always surrounded by quotations, as though the legislation didn't actually change anything (that's what the quotes seem to imply). To reform simply means to change. For better or for worse, agree or disagree, it certainly did change, so why the quotes?
Just wondering. Thanks.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)institution or practice) in order to improve it."
If a legislative amendment is entitled as a reform and touted as an improvement when the real goal is not to improve the underlying legislation but to undermine that legislation putatively being reformed, then some would put the word reform in quotes.
No Child Left Behind is a good example of legislative "reform" of the public education system.
saturnsring
(1,832 posts)Up to date IPSOS-REUTERS Likely Democratic Primary Voter Poll-Clinton-64%-Sanders 28%
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)It was a great era,even the L A Riots happened under Bush Pere.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)work to repeal Bill's damage to the welfare system and the criminal justice system?
Where will she build on the Clinton legacy and where will she repair the Clinton legacy? We have the right to ask these questions and demand answers.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)that's why her vote to approve the AUMF was a tad different from the rest.
BC's wmd lies made Bush's easier to sell. JUst ask any rightwingnut armed with "the list" of wmd comments from his admin.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Who knows what the hell she'll do if elected? She doesn't know herself until she gets the memo or poll results.
Call me whatever ya like, I have core beliefs, they haven't changed since I became an adult. Damn it, I'd like my political leaders to have conviction for once.
reddread
(6,896 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)maybe thats not a protest sticker?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Well said.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Very bad medicine it was. Have you looked at the media lately?