2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Struggles in South Carolina
Sanders himself is not oblivious to the polling. During a gaggle with reporters outside of the state party on Saturday, Sanders said he knows it'll be hard to close the very wide gap with African-American voters in South Carolina.
"We have our work cut out for us here in South Carolina, but when I began this campaign, I would bet that 80-90% of the people in South Carolina didn't even know who Bernie Sanders was," he said, referring to himself in the third person.
His African-American supporters in the state agree that name recognition remains his biggest challenge. Sedona Tate, a 22-year-old Sanders supporter in Columbia, says that Bill Clinton boosts Hillary's visibility in the state.
http://m.wtae.com/politics/bernie-sanders-struggles-in-south-carolina/36602102
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)It's awkward and creepy. Implies you think you're bigger than life or something. Probably makes you even less liked in the South. Southerners just don't talk like that. Come to think of it, few people do...
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)But you can get away with it in certain circumstances like the one he used here when you're referring to other peoples impressions of you. It's a strange thing to bring up, its not like he does this regularly.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)and not that they (the reporter) made a grammatical error in quoting him.
Either that, or the reporter is a bloody handed corporatist warmongering oligarch.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)HRC remains popular.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My bff LOVES Hillary alot.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)We only have one candidate that can win. Unions know it, blacks, women, hispanics...
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)He'll improve in the polls.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Then go blame the DNC , for restricting the number of debates, if people from SC don't know who he is!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Don't tell me you didn't figure that one out yet!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Too bad he's not Wall Street sell out!!!
Oh my!!!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)The 2016 presidential race spending is expected to total $5 billion. That's not Hillary's fault. Thank goodness she has the cash for such a fight. Bernie would never stand a chance against the GOP cash in the general. He can't even get enough cash for this primary.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)Ask Russ Feingold how his unilateral disarmament worked out in 2010. He learned his lesson. For his 2016 race, he's allowing super pacs to help him.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Lead by example!!!
Why can't she do it?? She has the most money anyway!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)It case you didn't notice, she is already running against the GOP right now. They will not "follow her lead" if she disarms. Ask Russ Feingold.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)She is not running against the GOP. She is running against Sanders and O'Malley!!
Wtf are you talking about??? The Primarie elections havent even started yet!!!!
Wtf!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)She would have answered those questions whether she was running for POTUS or not.
We have Democratic elections. She is not coronated. So no, she is not running against the repubs yet.
She is running against Sanders and O'Malley.
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)If you really think that 11 hour GOP witch trial was not aimed at knocking down Hillary's candidacy for 2016, there is no point in me discussing anything with you.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Hillary will NOT be coroneted, she must earn her votes.
You go have some *warm milk and go to bed* (your words)
I'm fine, thanks . Take your condescending orders elsewhere.
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)I just made a suggestion, since you sound so irritable. As you say, it's a free country. You can stay up all night if you want. I'm going to bed. I have work in the morning.
Good luck arguing with K & R ' s.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Stop telling people what to do.
There is a big difference between a question and an order. Maybe you should not try to attempt ordering people around.
Have a great day.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You know, walk the walk.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)Bernie talks about inividual donations all the time. The campaign has to budget in a very strategic way how to spend it. If he wins New Hampshire, there will be plenty of time to make SC a horse race.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Since SC voters haven't even heard of Bernie yet (per OP)
So what gives??
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)This problem goes far deeper than better techniques for getting out the vote. It reflects a massive decay of civil society, a deep disinterest and contempt for government and politics, one that often seems richly earned.
This is also the soil in which fascism grows. As political scientists have demonstrated for more than a century, it is "mass society," in which people are disconnected from the "little platoons" beloved of Edmund Burke and the local associations celebrated by Toqueville, where a strongman can suddenly seem the solution to people's inchoate frustrations with their own lives and the irrelevance of politics.
And evidently, the quiet desperation and buried rage are such that the crazier the strongman's pronouncements, the better. (Cue Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz.)
http://huff.to/1PIYcHe
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)you do realize that there are some of them there, right?
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Because he can't debate Hillary due to the DNC restrictions??
And because he doesn't have the Wall Street and super pac interest money Hilary does??
Please!!!
You well know that restricting the number of the debates was detrimental to Sanders!
Hillary even refused to attend the Forum scheduled on Tuesday! She's afraid to speak , becausd when she speaks , her poll stats go down.
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)Thanks for kicking the thread too.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)It's sad really. But funny at the same time. When you claim to kick a thread only because of who's posting it.
Have at it!!
SunSeeker
(51,726 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Your choice.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Why?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)It's like an enhanced ignore button.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)because I damn well feel like it.
Sid
bravenak
(34,648 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
bravenak
(34,648 posts)FSogol
(45,529 posts)FSogol
(45,529 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
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Lots of replies from darkangel218 up thread...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=840301
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Violation of ToS to call out specific member in a thread. That's what pm's are for.
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SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
FSogol
(45,529 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)It's the New DU!
Sid
peacebird
(14,195 posts)In the third person. He has consistently said this is not change he alone can bring, it will take all of us.
The author of the article may not have followed Bernie closely enough to know that, but Bravenak surely knew this was a distortion and untrue when chosing that phrase to bold.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)yardwork
(61,712 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)The name recognition excuse is getting kind of old.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)BootinUp
(47,197 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)It never suprises me that he struggles, the depth of the struggle is also not surprising. What I'm curious about is how he will respond. There are interventions he could do to improve those numbers, it would be nice to see him try. He implies that he will.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If he wants to be a leader, he has to solve problems better than this.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)That grates on my nerves. (Also his speaking quirks and other mannerisms are as off-putting and annoying to me as those of GWB.)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Then I'm like
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)conservative State. Winning SC is like proving yourself with bigots. In '08 SC was where Bill Clinton got most racist and where Obama held his rallies with hateful anti gay preachers. After SC in 08 I lost respect for both candidates, for the process, for their advisers, their ethics and for South Carolina.
SC kept homosexuality illegal until 2003 when the SCOTUS made them stop.
Antisemitism is also a constant in SC, I offer mainstream Republican rhetoric spoken in defense of Jim deMint:
"There is a saying that the Jews who are wealthy got that way not by watching dollars, but instead by taking care of the pennies and the dollars taking care of themselves."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/19/794998/-
And of course mass killer Dylan Roof who blamed Jewish agitation for racism in America:
""In my opinion the issues with jews is not their blood, but their identity. I think that if we could somehow destroy the jewish identity, then they wouldn't cause much of a problem. The problem is that Jews look White, and in many cases are White, yet they see themselves as minorities."
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.662174
Let's add this one:
SC Governor Names White Nationalist to Reelection Committee
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2013/05/22/sc-governor-names-white-nationalist-reelection-committee
So Bernie is struggling in South Carolina? He's sure not the first minority to do so, and he won't be the last either. Hostile territory.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)bad thing.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)What reason do i have? I do not know him.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts).... Is called illesism, and it's odd.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeism
"illeism can be used to reinforce self-promotion, as used to sometimes comic effect by Bob Dole throughout his political career.[2] This was particularly made notable during the United States presidential election, 1996 and lampooned broadly in popular media for years afterwards.
Similarly illeism is used with an air of grandeur, to give the speaker lofty airs. Idiosyncratic and conceited people are known to either use or are lampooned as using illeism to puff themselves up or illustrate their egoism. The artist Salvador Dalí used illeism throughout his interview with Mike Wallace on The Mike Wallace Interview, punctuating it with "Dalí is immortal and will not die," although this may have been a reference to the legacy of his art rather than his actual self. The wrestler The Rock was notorious for this, mainly to enhance his persona to a superhuman level. Deepanjana Pal of Firstpost noted that speaking in the third person "is a classic technique used by generations of Bollywood scriptwriters to establish a characters aristocracy, power and gravitas."[3] Conversely, third-person self referral can be associated with self-irony and not taking oneself too seriously (since the excessive use of preposition "I" is a common sign of narcissism and egocentrism[citation needed]), as well as with eccentricity in general."
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think it's funny.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But that's just me.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I think it's weird that our primary schedule puts a lot of Republican states early in the schedule. Yeah, Hillary may win the primaries in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, but she (or any other Dem) isn't going to win those states.
The largest Democratic state by far is California, and we really don't even get a say. It's usually all over by the time of our primary.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I cannot think of more than a few states she won't win in the primary. He would have an even tougher time down South.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)So why are we letting red states determine the Democratic nominee?
I say this as a Sanders partisan in this election, but it's always like that.
I think we need a series of regional primaries, or all primaries on the same day, or something like that.
Why does the Democratic state with the most electoral votes (California) basically get no say at all? We don't even vote until June.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Lots of blacks down that way, we do not need to be disenfranchising anybody ahd letting the northern or western states do all the deciding. Not fair. My state gets no say ever.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)he's not too popular with Blacks at least so we're told because of he's a socialist.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)that. It seems like some think we just live like it's the 90's, but I have had so many people talk about the online stuff. They take one look at the comments sections, in articles about Hillary or whomever. If the article is positive about hillary? My god. The nasty things said. Not by repubs either.
For a while the commenters had FLOODED black blogs and news sources in the comments sections. It is the main thing that comes up when his name comes up if they even know about him. Not socialism. They talk about the comments. Comments made to them, to others, stuff they read on Twitter. My favorite thing? NOBODY BELIEVES ANY OF US when we say that is the main problem. Funniest thing about the entire thing. Do not believe the actual people as to why they won't give him the time of day. Some woukd rather just blame us for not liking it ahd staying clear of that type of campaign. Hell, if not for that, even I would still be voting Bernie. But to help THOSE folks win in any type of way? Goodness. Why? If that's what he likes he can have it without me for sure. Now that I'm being called nwords and the person is being honored, well, okay, I guess I made the exact right choice. Not that I blame him, cause I don't. But join that? Oh no. No no no no no no no. No. Socialism? Yeah. Not discussed at all really. Too many comments to discuss. Been going on for months. Too funny.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)in fact even though I had never heard of it as such before DU, some is even direct quotes from the Protocols of the Elders of Socialism
eta don't even begin to claim I am saying this is the sole reason for the alleged lack of support for Bernie Sanders in the Black community bit it is one factor and may well be in the broad spectrum of people too
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And no matter how many times blacks say exactly what they problem is, people WILL not believe them and will simply make shit up that makes them feel better and makes it so they have to do absolutely no work on themselves or their crew. Hilarious.
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Get out the brooms.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Maybe we should choose our nominee in states that actually vote Democratic. Or at least give them a meaningful voice.
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)And if tRump is the GOP nominee anything could happen.
I have every confidence Hillary Clinton will be our next President.
They (D states) will have a say if our next president is a Dem. or Repug.
Cha
(297,723 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cha
(297,723 posts)William769
(55,148 posts)Very mildly.
More like
bravenak
(34,648 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)William769
(55,148 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And Btw, landline polls are no longer representative of the truth, since so many people no longer have landlines. Majority of internet polls favor BERNIE!!
Cheers!
William769
(55,148 posts)" Majority of internet polls favor BERNIE!!" the one's where the same people can sit there all day hitting the button over & over for Bernie skewing the poll!
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Such as Titanic dreams
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)HAHAHA!
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Pitiful.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Bwahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!
William769
(55,148 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)including Obama. It acknowledges all the people working with them.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Same could be said every time Obama uses 3rd person.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And it will be depressing for many to be reminded how conservative our country, and the Democratic Party, are. South Carolina is one of the most conservative for sure.
I already have a good idea of just how conservative the Democratic Party is, so it won't surprise me, but it's still saddening.
I think the recent votes by many Democrats to stop Syrian refugees and the whole gay marriage keruffufle shows just how spineless Democratic leaders are and how bigoted much of the Democratic Party is.