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Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:53 AM Dec 2015

Everybody HATES Hillary.

I see it everywhere. I hear it everywhere.

Everyone hates Hillary!

Obviously, this is not true. Even here in the Sanders stronghold of DU, Hillary has a vocal and prominent following, supporting her effort to become POTUS. They are loud and proud, rightfully so. Everything points their way..... polling, money, endorsements, etc etc etc....

However, everyone STILL hates Hillary. Her strongest and most vocal supporters have told me so.

WTF?

The right hates her with a passion like none have ever known before. The "hard" left hates her equally. The moderates that don't give a shit won't go vote for her......

So, explain it to us....

Hillary is hated like a vile (add any adjective here) candidate by the right.

Hillary is hated by the evil socialist left.

Hillary is ignored and given a 'meh, I would rather just have a nap then vote' by moderates.

How is Hillary our only chance at keeping the White House again?

134 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Everybody HATES Hillary. (Original Post) Cassiopeia Dec 2015 OP
She has a better chance than a 75 year old self described doc03 Dec 2015 #1
Wrong. elleng Dec 2015 #6
...... Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #10
Thanks. elleng Dec 2015 #17
I won't argue crime stats on MD. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #22
You know Hillary's only 5-6 younger than Sanders, right? merrily Dec 2015 #70
Six years, one month, eighteen days. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #82
Where's the minutes and seconds? NorthCarolina Dec 2015 #90
A trivial span of time, since both are in good health. n/t. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #130
Sounds like a situation comedy. Lint Head Dec 2015 #2
I give Hillary a 4, the lady in the dress a 7 but the real star of this clip Number23 Dec 2015 #4
LOOKS like a situation comedy. elleng Dec 2015 #19
Everyone hates Bernie, Friday's at 8 pinebox Dec 2015 #27
yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wendylaroux Dec 2015 #124
Now that's "Presidential" Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #127
I thought I hated her until I met her opponents. bravenak Dec 2015 #3
So you're judging her based on "her opponents"???? darkangel218 Dec 2015 #7
It's not a very convincing claim. Crystalite Dec 2015 #14
I'm afraid you are correct. darkangel218 Dec 2015 #21
Based on her opponents, based on her opponents' supporters, merrily Dec 2015 #71
I swear it is performance art. Puglover Dec 2015 #87
When it doubt, consult the dictionary for at least a starting point: merrily Dec 2015 #88
:) Puglover Dec 2015 #91
Bad Brecht. Sounds like halitosis, possible due to excess stomach acid. Now, that's more like it! merrily Dec 2015 #92
She started that nonsensical crap Puglover Dec 2015 #86
Thats precious. bobbobbins01 Dec 2015 #9
Umm hmm bravenak Dec 2015 #11
Thats even more precious. bobbobbins01 Dec 2015 #12
To be sure. Umm hmm. bravenak Dec 2015 #15
So how does she win the GE? Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #16
We don't convince everybody that hates her. We convince enough DEMOCRATS to show up. bravenak Dec 2015 #23
so, you have no plan to win over hard left, hard right, or moderates. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #32
What plan does Bernie have? bravenak Dec 2015 #38
When it comes to the GE Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #41
I told you our plan. Show up to stop republicans and have good people campaigning. bravenak Dec 2015 #42
what about all those down ballot Socialists redstateblues Dec 2015 #109
hahaha rbrnmw Dec 2015 #46
He he he! bravenak Dec 2015 #48
I used to think like that. zigby Dec 2015 #24
Yep. We have our votes. They count. bravenak Dec 2015 #25
So the symbol is more important than policy? Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #28
I never said that. zigby Dec 2015 #35
It sounds like you have a LOT in common with Bernie Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #39
Thanks for the welcome. zigby Dec 2015 #126
before you get all excited about the "it's time for a woman prez"thing, maybe you should find out kath Dec 2015 #128
wow glad you're here to talk down to me zigby Dec 2015 #129
i feel similar, although i never hated her JI7 Dec 2015 #37
I now think I must have never really hated her either. Not like they so. bravenak Dec 2015 #40
She's not, of course, 'our only chance.' elleng Dec 2015 #5
Nah. Just the Republicans of all stripes, and the extreme Left. BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #8
yup. KMOD Dec 2015 #13
Yes, they do. And as the elections get closer, the excitement is going to go through the roof. BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #26
Didn't realize watching paint dry was exciting. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #132
It isn't. BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #134
Uh... no. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #131
So that's 30 pct plus a current 3rd of Democrats ibegurpard Dec 2015 #20
We'll talk after the holidays. BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #30
I've written talking points. I know talking points. ibegurpard Dec 2015 #33
Yeah. Okay. BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #98
You never answered my original question. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #36
After she's elected... tazkcmo Dec 2015 #79
"Hillary is no Obama" quickesst Dec 2015 #85
Oh? I didn't know I was required to do so. I guess I've been posting back and forth with so many BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #97
I like Bernie better, and I have never hated her. rusty quoin Dec 2015 #18
Last time I checked Hillary was polling at over 80% with Democrats Tommy2Tone Dec 2015 #29
80 percent of 30 percent ibegurpard Dec 2015 #34
Exactly. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #49
Doesn't that work the other way, too? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #75
Well if it hard for Hillary Tommy2Tone Dec 2015 #96
Behind to she who has every institutional advantage. But she still cannot bury him. Why is that? Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #108
Buried definition might be like having six feet of dirt on top Tommy2Tone Dec 2015 #110
So roughly 24% TM99 Dec 2015 #77
Because if you don't win the primary there is no beyond! Tommy2Tone Dec 2015 #100
There is no beyond for Clinton. TM99 Dec 2015 #111
I know I am delusional Tommy2Tone Dec 2015 #112
Well you said it, not me! TM99 Dec 2015 #114
Dems are very excited about us winning the WH. Rex Dec 2015 #31
"Dems" are 30% of the electorate. You don't win with 30%. (nt) jeff47 Dec 2015 #102
Just talking about here in my area, they are excited about the prospects of another Dem in the WH. Rex Dec 2015 #118
Yet that still makes them only 30% of the electorate. (nt) jeff47 Dec 2015 #119
So how much of the electorate is the GOP? Rex Dec 2015 #120
Depending on the poll, about 20-30%. jeff47 Dec 2015 #121
Dam now that has me worried. Rex Dec 2015 #122
The Republicans will vote for anyone with an R after their name. jeff47 Dec 2015 #123
That really worries me, thank you for explaining to me the situation. Rex Dec 2015 #125
No, you all do not hate Mrs. Clinton. You all question her credibility and akbacchus_BC Dec 2015 #43
What you say is true regarding the general election. But I jwirr Dec 2015 #115
I don't want to be on her hitlist rbrnmw Dec 2015 #44
Now, that brought back memories of the worst kind when she was akbacchus_BC Dec 2015 #45
Name the HRC supporters here who told you "everyone STILL hates Hillary"? SunSeeker Dec 2015 #47
I will not name names. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #50
"I will not turn this into some meta crap." SunSeeker Dec 2015 #55
as stated in my OP Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #57
+100! Cha Dec 2015 #68
Mahalo, Cha! SunSeeker Dec 2015 #69
Not sure if she overcomes angrychair Dec 2015 #51
hmmmm. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #54
After seeing the hateful left that has came spewing out giftedgirl77 Dec 2015 #52
For real bravenak Dec 2015 #53
that's truth right there rbrnmw Dec 2015 #89
The hateful left is just awful, posting videos of Hillary saying things.. frylock Dec 2015 #116
I am a Hillary supporter. BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #56
She's rather our best chance of losing the White House. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #58
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #59
Hillary has around an 80% approval rating from african americans in most polls I've seen. Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #61
Polls taken by white people, working for the white mainstream media. Major Hogwash Dec 2015 #65
They're in deep denial and it comes out in the most deplorable ways. Cha Dec 2015 #67
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #80
That is not true at all. bravenak Dec 2015 #62
Your post is all over the place Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #60
I have read exactly that. Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #63
She's leading Sanders among liberal voters: Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #64
Your poll only includes Democrats, not "voters". jeff47 Dec 2015 #105
The hate against Hillary comes from one certain place imo: Tipperary Dec 2015 #66
Right. Her vote for the IWR and PATRIOT Act and support by corps means nothing Android3.14 Dec 2015 #72
Do you hate- Rose Siding Dec 2015 #84
Odd choice of words. I don't "hate" any of them, but yes, they are unqualified to lead the USA Android3.14 Dec 2015 #93
Of course, because she was the only Democrat who supported those.. oh wait.. Amimnoch Dec 2015 #104
Another odd response. I think I tried this tactic with my mother at age 10 Android3.14 Dec 2015 #113
I have never said she is the only choice. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #73
Which stage of grief is this? JoePhilly Dec 2015 #74
Yea guess everyone hates her even all the female Senators FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #76
Not all... Sen. Warren wasn't there. eom Fawke Em Dec 2015 #133
like everybody hates Obama? greenman3610 Dec 2015 #78
LOL, what would be the point? msrizzo Dec 2015 #81
Well said! Lisa D Dec 2015 #95
I don't hate Hillary,... HooptieWagon Dec 2015 #83
^^^THIS^^^ jwirr Dec 2015 #117
A Bernie-supporter-style reverse psychology clickbait headline. Nitram Dec 2015 #94
I know you say you'd rather have a nap, but you should get out more. JTFrog Dec 2015 #99
not everybody hates her 2pooped2pop Dec 2015 #101
Majorities of every demographic EXCEPT DEMOCRATS distrust Clinton. 68% of Democrats trust her and Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #103
I don't hate Hillary - It's just that I'm more of a social-democrat or New Dealer than one of these Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #106
because not everyone hates her! dlwickham Dec 2015 #107

doc03

(35,348 posts)
1. She has a better chance than a 75 year old self described
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:03 AM
Dec 2015

socialist. I wish there was someone else but that is the best chance we have.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
10. ......
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:23 AM
Dec 2015

I would love to see O'Malley trained by Bernie on how to use the bully pulpit.

He was wrong on crime, but I see huge positives when it comes to his overall policy.

Bernie/O'Malley '16

elleng

(130,974 posts)
17. Thanks.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:29 AM
Dec 2015

On Criminal Justice Reform:

https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/

As to his programs in Baltimore and Maryland, crime decreased significantly during his tenure, and he was re-elected with large margins both as Mayor of Baltimore and Governor of Maryland.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
22. I won't argue crime stats on MD.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:35 AM
Dec 2015

However, his policies were not the best for minorities and low income individuals.

I hope he's learned from those errors after the riots, but I know Bernie could bring him around if he still needs that lesson reinforced.

I like him as a second chair.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
70. You know Hillary's only 5-6 younger than Sanders, right?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 07:17 AM
Dec 2015

And I think his chances in the general are much better than hers.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
4. I give Hillary a 4, the lady in the dress a 7 but the real star of this clip
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:09 AM
Dec 2015

is the lady in the white coat. Homegirl is trying her absolute HARDEST to jam and jam hard.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
3. I thought I hated her until I met her opponents.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:09 AM
Dec 2015

Then I realized I just hated hearing all the complaints about her and blamed her for it. I only have a few points against her. But I have learned to LOVE her watching this primary. All kinds of formerly reasonable people have done themselves no favors with the vile hate they spew at her. She handles it well.
I cannot WAIT to cast my ballot for her.

 

Crystalite

(164 posts)
14. It's not a very convincing claim.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:28 AM
Dec 2015

I think it's a weak attempt at sarcasm or something.

Nobody changes their candidate selection based on other candidates' supporters' statements.

That's just silly and I suspect people who are saying that are not sincere.

I mean, who does that?

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
87. I swear it is performance art.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:38 AM
Dec 2015

"Look at meeeeeeeeeeee"!

Oh and BTW I don't "hate Hillary." Stupid OP IMHO.

What I hate is the pap that passes as discussion on this board these days.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
88. When it doubt, consult the dictionary for at least a starting point:
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:47 AM
Dec 2015

per·for·mance art
noun
noun: performance art

an art form that combines visual art with dramatic performance.


Hmmm. Not especially helpful. Let's check "art."


art1
ärt/
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts

1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
works produced by human creative skill and imagination.
"his collection of modern art"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture.
"she's good at art"
2.
the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
"the visual arts"


I'm going with not art, ergo, not performance art. Of course, art is highly subjective. Your results may differ.

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
91. :)
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:53 AM
Dec 2015

Apparently you missed the avatars, calvary etc. etc. splattered all over. I never said or implied it was either creative or anything else positive.

To me it's more like a bad never ending Bertolt Brecht play. YMMV as well.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
16. So how does she win the GE?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:29 AM
Dec 2015

Your argument is that everyone against her sucks and has swayed your opinion. I get it, everyone loves an underdog, even when they're on top of the leaderboard.

How do we persuade everyone that currently hates Hillary to go vote for her? The list is long as I've seen you admit from time to time.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
23. We don't convince everybody that hates her. We convince enough DEMOCRATS to show up.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:36 AM
Dec 2015

The Republicans have gone full racist, sexist, and violent. There are enough of US that are so opposed to THAT and that care about OUR FUTURE that WE will show up. And the lackadaisical Hillary Haters can spend the next eight years telling tales of how horrible she is as the rest of us get stuff done. They will cry into their soups, rend their garments, wear out fainting couches, but there are not enough of them to change the trajectory of this race. And with their off putting attitudes and tactics, there won't ever be enough of them to sustain a victory against her. So, she will win two GE's because none of their crying, rending, or wearing out will have one iota of an effect on Real Democrats who always vote Democratic.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
32. so, you have no plan to win over hard left, hard right, or moderates.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:02 AM
Dec 2015

Hillary will win the GE based solely on solid, consistent, and older Dem voters.

There are a lot of states in the GE that will make that a losing strategy.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
38. What plan does Bernie have?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:12 AM
Dec 2015

He is polling low with Black Voters, hispanic voters, she is beating him with democratic men, women, minorities, older voters...
How will he gets these groups that are NOT INTERESTED in him to stand in long lines in swing states? Convince black voters who have to stand there for hours?

The hard left may not WANT to be won over, if they are willing to stay home, nothing we can do. We have to play to our base in a primary. We try for left leaning independents as well in the general. We need to win the Obama States. Looking at the electoral charts, I think we are pretty much ok as far as that is concerned. We have the most populous state with the most electoral votes. We need the swing states. Hillary can bring those with both Obama and Bill stumping for her, or at least supporting her. Who does Bernie have?

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
41. When it comes to the GE
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:26 AM
Dec 2015

you can't turn it around to "what plan does the other have".

Hillary has a strong hate following, especially from the right. Millions that normally don't vote may come out to vote AGAINST Hillary in a GE. That is critical in states that squeaked by for Obama such as VA, NC, OH.

As her supporter how do you plan to overcome that very real problem?

Even if Hillary wins, how do the the coattails down ticket play out when that uninformed hate voter comes out and pulls the lever for a solid R ticket?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
42. I told you our plan. Show up to stop republicans and have good people campaigning.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:31 AM
Dec 2015

Obama had a similar problem. Racism. We managed to win. Socialism does not poll very well. You guys have no answers. I see many swipes at Clinton, but no winning plan. We know we can win the Primary and the GE. Can you say the sme?

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
109. what about all those down ballot Socialists
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:05 PM
Dec 2015

that will be swept into office on Bernie's coat tails? Oops-there are none.

zigby

(125 posts)
24. I used to think like that.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:40 AM
Dec 2015

In my neck of the woods, I heard all sorts of sexist rants from the republican men who just would never vote for a woman, let alone a strong smart liberal like Hillary. I didn't like her at first because I am gay in very deep red area and I felt like she dropped the ball for us. But now I see there is so much hatred in the Right that getting a woman elected is a very strong symbol that we need. I might not have a lot in this world, but I have my vote.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
28. So the symbol is more important than policy?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:55 AM
Dec 2015

I desperately want to break the next (not the greatest) glass ceiling, but the population and it's needs are more important than that next breakthrough. Millions suffer so much every day. Change is more important than milestones.

There is far more at stake than the first female POTUS.

zigby

(125 posts)
35. I never said that.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:09 AM
Dec 2015

Of course policy is important! Breaking that ceiling will inspire a whole generation of young women, and Hillary has enough experience to use that energy to get things done in Washington.

Trust me, I KNOW what's at stake, I make just a bit over minimum wage trying to pay off student loans. My parents aren't getting any younger and I worry every day that they won't have enough to live comfortable in their golden years. But it's not just about me and mine, I also care about social justice and to me Hillary has come around to the point where I believe her as a supporter of gay rights, and she seems to have the best head for just about every other criminal justice issue at hand too. I mean, just compare her on ANY topic to the scary corral of republican asses...

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
39. It sounds like you have a LOT in common with Bernie
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:13 AM
Dec 2015

and the policies he has spent his lifetime defending and expanding.

Sometimes change is more important than ceilings. You should look into our primary options a little more deeply.

Welcome to DU

zigby

(125 posts)
126. Thanks for the welcome.
Wed Dec 2, 2015, 08:29 PM
Dec 2015

I found this place from a Facebook graphic link, and I was impressed by the number of people on this forum. But I'm feeling a bit intimidated, people seem pretty lathered up already and we haven't even set on the republicans yet! I've read about Bernie but I just don't see how he has the numbers to compete, and again like I said the idea of having a woman shatter that ceiling is really inspiring. I hope they can work together because he really seems to care about poverty issues, like I do since I live it! lol

kath

(10,565 posts)
128. before you get all excited about the "it's time for a woman prez"thing, maybe you should find out
Wed Dec 2, 2015, 10:45 PM
Dec 2015

just how much the working people of Britain enjoyed having THEIR first female head of state.

(Hint - Google this: "ding dong the witch is dead" Thatcher)

It should be about where the candidate stands on ISSUES, not what's between their legs.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
37. i feel similar, although i never hated her
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:10 AM
Dec 2015

but i wasn't a big fan of hers and even now i would say i like sanders personally more than her.

but i do admire her and i sure don't hate her some others. and their hatred turns me off to them and makes me see her in a more positive way.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
5. She's not, of course, 'our only chance.'
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:12 AM
Dec 2015

There is a candidate who can attract support from left AND right, due to excellent and lengthy executive experience, strong policies, and many written plans to implement his policies.

O'Malley's Plans:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813600

As to 'everybody hates,' it's clearly not so; I have many friends (NOT DUers) who support her strongly, many of them strong Democrats. With support from the Democratic party, any repug can be defeated.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
8. Nah. Just the Republicans of all stripes, and the extreme Left.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:19 AM
Dec 2015

Thankfully, both these groups are in the minority.

 

KMOD

(7,906 posts)
13. yup.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:26 AM
Dec 2015

And the polls and endorsements clearly show that everybody (Democrats, anyway) love Hillary.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
26. Yes, they do. And as the elections get closer, the excitement is going to go through the roof.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:48 AM
Dec 2015

But we first need to get through and survive the holidays.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
132. Didn't realize watching paint dry was exciting.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:20 AM
Dec 2015

In fact, I'd rather watch that than do jack squat for her. She'll do nothing for me.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
134. It isn't.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:56 AM
Dec 2015

But will you vote for her should win the Democratic nomination? Come on, FE. Fess up. Will you set aside your own wants and needs and think about the country and do your civic duty as an American citizen and vote for Hillary Clinton should she win the nomination?

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
20. So that's 30 pct plus a current 3rd of Democrats
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:32 AM
Dec 2015

If you believe all the current polls.
That's 40 pct. You seriously believe all the majority of Independents are going to swing Hillary's way? When her approval ratings with them are underwater?
And billions being used to remind them of just WHY they don't like her?
Oh but she's got it in the bag! She's the most qualified, best prepared, ready from day 1 candidate EVER!

I'd be curious to know the age of the poli-sci grad student campaign consultant who came up with those garbage talking points.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
30. We'll talk after the holidays.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:59 AM
Dec 2015

Not everyone is as focused on politics as you and I are. Most are too busy getting ready for these holidays and are focused on that. Wait until the second/third week of January. THEN you'll see a change as the wheat is separated from the chaff.

It doesn't matter who came up with the FACTS, because like it or not, those are the facts. Hillary Clinton is absolutely the most qualified, the best prepared (she went up against master campaigner, Obama, didn't she?), and the most ready from day one presidential candidate running. Bar. None.

Unlike Sanders, O'Malley, and the entire clown-car on the Right, Hillary has, for eight years, actually seen and experienced what it takes to be president, and she's done this up close and personal.

So no, it's not garbage talking points. However, it is a garbage talking point to say those are garbage talking points.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
33. I've written talking points. I know talking points.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:02 AM
Dec 2015

These are laaaaame talking points.
Edit: oh yeah extra credit for throwing in "bar none"...I had forgotten about that particular groaner.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
36. You never answered my original question.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:09 AM
Dec 2015

How does Hillary overcome the outright hate many have.

Dems will sit out, moderates won't get motivated and Reps will come out in droves to vote against her.

The lesser of two evils only goes so far. Obama preached change, Hillary has little more than "I'm not as bad".

Hillary is no Obama.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
85. "Hillary is no Obama"
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:30 AM
Dec 2015

Sanders is no Obama either, yet we are bombarded daily with posts likening his campaign to POTUS in 2008. That's out of one side of their mouth. The other side cries, moans, and groans about how much of a disappointing, corporate loving, anti-worker tool Obama is. One does not have to be a genius to understand there is no genius involved in this attempt to have it both ways.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
97. Oh? I didn't know I was required to do so. I guess I've been posting back and forth with so many
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:09 PM
Dec 2015

Sanders supporters that I've incorporated some of their evasive response tactics.

But here, I'll rectify it. Take into account that I'm giving my opinion, just as you gave yours when you asked these questions:

How does Hillary overcome the outright hate many have.

Outright hatred? From who? Republicans? Who cares? That said, think the last Benghazi committee. She was a genius. Or hatred from the extreme Left? Again, who cares? They never even liked her and yet she's at the top in all polling that doesn't include Republican participants. The minority vote will put her over the top, just as we've done with President Obama in 2012. Minorities LOVE Hillary Clinton.

Dems will sit out,

Not the true-blue Dems. And certainly not in the presidential elections. But maybe the fake and/or fair-weather ones might decide to stay home and bake waffles instead of doing their civic duty, but they don't care about the country as a whole and never have, so no loss there.

moderates won't get motivated and

Moderates, unlike the extreme left, actually like Hillary Clinton. They don't care for Bernie Sanders and they don't care for Republicans. So no problem there, either.

Reps will come out in droves to vote against her.

I'm sure they will. But guess what? They won't get anywhere, again, thanks to the minority vote. If you haven't noticed lately, the xenophobia and racism is running rampant among their clown-car bunch, and they haven't endeared themselves with minorities. I'm sure there are a few who'll still vote Republican, but they'll be inconsequential.

The lesser of two evils only goes so far. Obama preached change, Hillary has little more than "I'm not as bad".

And here anti-Hillary Clinton people make their biggest mistake. She's NOT "the lesser of two evils". She's actually a true-blue Democrat, and, probably much to the surprise of many, she and Sanders have voted the same 93 percent of the time in the two years they were together in the Senate.

Hillary is no Obama.

And yet, despite Senator Obama's incredibly large crowds, inspiring speeches, charisma, and oratory skills, she carved out a slim majority for herself, but Obama beat her in the delegate game that had him win the nom. He was savvier by gathering delegates behind the scenes, and it were these delegates that broke the near-tie and had him win. She won't make that same mistake this time around. In fact, she's all but locked up the delegates and has already received 452 Democratic Rep., Senator, and Governor endorsements.

In contrast, Sanders has two and Martin O'Malley has ONE.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
29. Last time I checked Hillary was polling at over 80% with Democrats
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:59 AM
Dec 2015

So in fact the "Everyone hates Hillary" thought is a lie.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
75. Doesn't that work the other way, too? ...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:46 AM
Dec 2015

30% of 30%?

Gonna take a LOT, lot more than a bit, next November.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
110. Buried definition might be like having six feet of dirt on top
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:16 PM
Dec 2015

Bernie is covered in five and a half. Not quite buried but a hell of a lot closer to be buried than getting out.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
77. So roughly 24%
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:50 AM
Dec 2015

of registered Democratic voters like Clinton.

How y'all can't see the problems beyond the primary is beyond me.

And the bullshit that we are somehow the selfish ones for wanting Sanders for both political and ideological reason when Clinton has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the GE.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
100. Because if you don't win the primary there is no beyond!
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:13 PM
Dec 2015
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/washington-post-abc-news-poll-nov-4-8-2015/1869/

You might want to pay a bit more attention to math. Roughly 83% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Hillary, compared to 53% for Bernie.

You guys always point to Hillary being disliked by the GOP and Independents but unless something changes it won't matter. Bernie won't win the Dem nomination. Or should we just change the rules because a vocal minority of the Democratic party wants Bernie?

One other thing your side ignores. To you and most other Bernie supporters Hillary's numbers with Independents can't be fixed. I say when the voters get a choice of Hillary or any of the GOP contenders they will vote Hillary even if it is voting against the other side.




 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
111. There is no beyond for Clinton.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:21 PM
Dec 2015

I personally don't think she will win the primary. She is a known failure as a candidate and is in much the same positioning as in 2008.

Of course it matters that Independents and the GOP so strongly dislike Clinton. God forbid she gets the primary nod, she will be slaughtered in the GE.

No, those numbers can't be fixed. She is a known commodity. She has a fabulously long history of gaffes, racism, lies, distortions, triangulations, etc. What, you think that people have forgotten that shit?

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
112. I know I am delusional
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:45 PM
Dec 2015

How else could I believe my candidate who has a near 30 point lead could possibly win the nomination.

Silly me

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
31. Dems are very excited about us winning the WH.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:01 AM
Dec 2015

Most think like I do, that which ever one it is they will do a great job. Even the GOPers I know are afraid of HRC winning and they will say it with worry. I believe they know their candidates are all fkd.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
118. Just talking about here in my area, they are excited about the prospects of another Dem in the WH.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:46 PM
Dec 2015

And the fact that they don't think Trump can beat Bernie or HRC.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
121. Depending on the poll, about 20-30%.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:57 PM
Dec 2015

Roughly 10% are true "swing voters" in that they'll vote for either party. They're also the least informed voters, and generally choose their candidate "on a whim". As a result, targeting them is very unreliable.

About 20% are Democratic-leaning independents. They will vote for Democrats, or stay home if they don't like the Democrat. They are to the left of the median Democrat.

About 20% are Republican-leaning independents. They will vote for Republicans, or stay home if they don't like the Republican. They are also to the left of the median Republican. They are somewhat more likely to vote than the Democratic-leaning independents.

The roughly 30% that belong to a party will almost always vote, and the roughly 10% swing voters will always vote, but generally split their vote.

It's the remaining 40% of independents who actually decide elections. it is extremely common for pollsters to treat this group as a single blob, creating the false appearance that this group is centrist - they're effectively averaging Republicans and Democrats, so of course the result is "in the middle". But the Democratic-leaning ones will never vote Republican, and the Republican-leaning ones will never vote Democratic.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
122. Dam now that has me worried.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 05:00 PM
Dec 2015

Even if the card holder is Trump or Carson? You believe the traditional voters will still go for them? I figured even Trump, Cruz and Carson are too radical for the old neocons that will go vote.

You got me worried now.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
123. The Republicans will vote for anyone with an R after their name.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 05:02 PM
Dec 2015

Even if that Republican promises to execute everyone who votes for him.

Republican-leaning independents may or may not vote for a crazy Republican. That's where the 25 years of demonizing Clinton may come in. It makes Republican-leaning independents much more likely to show up even if the Republican is crazy.

Team Clinton REALLY needs a plan to get Democratic-leaning independents to the polls, and she does not appear to even consider this a problem, much less have a plan.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
125. That really worries me, thank you for explaining to me the situation.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:42 PM
Dec 2015

Hard to tell from south Texas where we Dems are few and far inbetween.

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
43. No, you all do not hate Mrs. Clinton. You all question her credibility and
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:32 AM
Dec 2015

honesty. She is no Barack Obama, she is not getting the base on her side yet, but man, if you think Trump is not totally dishonest with all his lies and most likely, he will be the Republican nominee, you all have got to vote for Mrs. Clinton, she will be the nominee. In as much as I like Mr. Sanders, he is not gaining momentum. Enough said!

Remember, it is a long ways ahead for voting in the US, but as far as I recall, once the GOP and the Democratic party select a nominee, you all are stuck with that person. No longer can Joe Biden step in to help, he nor Mrs. Warren are not interested. Game over, we are just waiting for the results.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
115. What you say is true regarding the general election. But I
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:13 PM
Dec 2015

fail to see why I should not be able to do whatever I want with my vote in the primary.

Until the primary is over it is insane to let fear of losing to that pack of idiots in R party push me to vote for anyone I do not believe in. And since we have not even had one primary caucus or election yet it is even more insane to let others tell us how to vote.

This election we have two candidates going one way and the other off on her Third Way route. For the first time in a long time we actually have a choice. All this screaming and yelling about it all being over is premature. And it is usually being done by Hillary supporters who are afraid of competition.

As for me and mine we will stick with Bernie until it is REALLY over.

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
45. Now, that brought back memories of the worst kind when she was
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:40 AM
Dec 2015

running against President Obama. I thought I would dislike her with a passion. Not now, I will give her a pass if she is the nominee but somehow, I do not trust her warlike attitude. Just my opinion!

SunSeeker

(51,574 posts)
47. Name the HRC supporters here who told you "everyone STILL hates Hillary"?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:43 AM
Dec 2015
However, everyone STILL hates Hillary. Her strongest and most vocal supporters have told me so. 


You wouldn't be making shit up would you?

I'm a progressive Democrat and I can't wait to vote for Hillary. I think she will be a great president.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
50. I will not name names.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:55 AM
Dec 2015

I can say that I replied to at least one solid HRC supporter in the last 6 hours. You're welcome to search out that thread on your own, but I will not turn this into some meta crap.

Otherwise, there is an overwhelming message on DU about the outright HATE for Hillary. It gets pointed out to me on DU, on other blogs, and talking to people face to face.

If you have not run into Hillary hate yet, then you must be in one very special place that doesn't represent the whole of the nation. Hillary has haters and those in tune know it.

SunSeeker

(51,574 posts)
55. "I will not turn this into some meta crap."
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:10 AM
Dec 2015

LOL

Too late, your OP already is.


BTW, saying "Hillary has haters" (which I do not dispute) is very different from saying "everyone hates Hillary." But you knew that.

angrychair

(8,702 posts)
51. Not sure if she overcomes
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:00 AM
Dec 2015

These negatives or not. As I have stated, if she is nominated to the general, I will vote for her but I will do it with tears in my eyes, I will still be casting my vote but I will be doing it for a Democratic Party that no longer cares about people like me: middle class, drowning in student loan debt, barely (sometimes don't) makes ends meet. A party that cares more about Wall St than my street. A party that cares more about electing presidents than actual policy that matters, actual elections that matter (state, county and city elections matter more) that care more about endorsements from unions than they do about actual unions.
So while you may well crow and strut on the morning of November 5, I'll morn the fact I lost my Party and we have lost the vast majority of all state legislatures and federal House seats and could very well be out in the cold for a decade or more.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
54. hmmmm.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:06 AM
Dec 2015

First, if you're drowning in debt and working from check to check, you are not middle class. You a struggling to stay out of outright poverty and nothing more.

Second, the first primary vote has yet to be cast. I won't concede the GE until we at least decide the primary.

Can Hillary win it all? I seriously doubt it. at absolute best, she pulls off a win, while every lower ticket race is decimated for Democrats.

Thankfully, not a single vote has been cast in the Primary. We have time to get the message out.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
52. After seeing the hateful left that has came spewing out
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:02 AM
Dec 2015

in support of Sanders you better believe HRC damn sure has a better chance. The fringe left has become just as unhinged as the Tea Party on the right & I'll be damned if I want that kind of crap being what is supposed to be our becon of hope.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
116. The hateful left is just awful, posting videos of Hillary saying things..
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:15 PM
Dec 2015

and critiquing her policy positions and voting record. How DARE they!

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
56. I am a Hillary supporter.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:11 AM
Dec 2015

I am also very excited about her candidacy.

I believe that of our three excellent candidates that she is the "whole" package.

I do not HATE her.

I am a poster on DU.

My post alone shows the fallacy in your premise. And my post is not the only one.

I do not care for many remarks made by DU posters who seem not to be Democrats (many are equally as nasty towards our current POTUS) and who seize upon any opportunity to make nasty and biased remarks towards Hillary merely for the sake of making them. And then try to justify those remarks by repeating RW TPs.

I respect those posters who support other candidates (all three are excellent, IMO, as I have repeated and will continue to repeat) and who make their points without having to disrespect or slander the other two with every single post they make. I respect comparisons of the candidates on issues - so long as the whole truth is told - rather than the repetition of RW TPs.

In spite of DU - Hillary will do just fine. If she wins the primaries - as is more likely in the cards than not - she will do just fine in the GE - unless the majority of the US population goes insane.

Because every single one of the GOPer candidates IS insane.

Never. Forget. That.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
58. She's rather our best chance of losing the White House.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:19 AM
Dec 2015

Maybe that's why DINO-Debbie is rooting for her?

Response to Cassiopeia (Original post)

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
61. Hillary has around an 80% approval rating from african americans in most polls I've seen.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:33 AM
Dec 2015

I'm not sure which polls you're looking at, but they may be flawed.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
65. Polls taken by white people, working for the white mainstream media.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:40 AM
Dec 2015

I'm dead serious, I have yet to meet one black person who supports Hillary to be their President.
I'm sure they are out there, I'll keep looking for one.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
80. LOL ...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:57 AM
Dec 2015

A white guy that, clearly, knows nothing of/has little interaction with the Black community (per his "I haven't met any Black HRC supporters&quot blames white pollsters for HRC's supporter in the Black community?

DU doesn't get much better than that!

What does DU stand for, again . Delusional Underground? ... Denial Underground? ... Dammit and stomp out feet Underground?

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
60. Your post is all over the place
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:31 AM
Dec 2015

I can hardly make sense of it.

You're saying Hillary supporters told you everyone hates Hillary?

Okie dokie....



Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
63. I have read exactly that.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:34 AM
Dec 2015

The left and right hate HRC, the middle doesn't care.

I have read that right here on DU in fact, within the last 7 hours or so, from very outspoken Hillary supporters.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
64. She's leading Sanders among liberal voters:
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:37 AM
Dec 2015
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/11/gop-has-clear-top-4-clinton-dominant-for-dems-general-election-tight.html

Clinton's leading within every demographic group on the Democratic side but it's closer with some segments of the electorate than others. She leads Sanders just 50/36 with white voters, but is up 70/13 with African Americans and 84/8 with Hispanics. She leads Sanders just 47/32 with men, but is up 69/22 with women. She leads Sanders just 53/32 with younger voters, but is up 66/17 with seniors. And she leads Sanders by just 17 with 'very liberal' voters at 56/39, but is up 34 with moderates at 56/22, and 49 points with 'somewhat liberal' voters at 72/23.


Not sure where you're getting your data from.

Most polls I've seen show her getting a lot of support from liberal voters.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
105. Your poll only includes Democrats, not "voters".
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:26 PM
Dec 2015

at least when asking about Clinton. Methodology matters.

She's leading among 30% of the electorate. You don't win with 30% of the electorate. How does Clinton get enough of the independents (who do not trust her) in order to defeat the Republicans + Right-leaning independents who loathe her?

Rose Siding

(32,623 posts)
84. Do you hate-
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:24 AM
Dec 2015

I mean really hate: Biden, Kerry, Harken, Reid, Cleland, Rockefeller? All Dems who voted the same way?

The HRC "hate" meme is overblown. On DU, meh, not the real world. She has well-financed enemies in the gop -any leading dem would. Still, nationally, she's more well liked than any candidate in the race (except Carson, whose average hasn't yet caught up to his implosion).

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#favorability-ratings

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
93. Odd choice of words. I don't "hate" any of them, but yes, they are unqualified to lead the USA
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:20 AM
Dec 2015

When compared to Bernie Sanders.

Hillary Clinton is unqualified to be President.

Corporate interests control her, she makes poor decisions knowing they will harm the country, has never shown any leadership on any progressive issue except to follow focus groups, and she is undermining the institution of democracy through this primary process.

She uses mealy-mouthed language that reassures gullible people, but she always tilts back to the GOP.

The idea that we must support an unqualified candidate in the primary because she is the lesser of the GOP evils is poor tactics. Now is the time to advocate for the candidate that shows good leadership, serves the regular folks in this country, stands by his values, and supports the democracy.

We are not comparing her to the GOP, but to the other candidates running in the Democratic primary, and she is woefully deficient.

Bernie Sanders is the better choice.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
104. Of course, because she was the only Democrat who supported those.. oh wait..
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:25 PM
Dec 2015

She wasn't, there was a large portion of Democrats, including the Vice President of the United States of the last 8 years (whom nobody seemed to have a big issue with).

So right back at ya mate.

This sounds soo much like the typical "I'm not racist because I have a black friend" argument that modern racists just love to trot out.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
113. Another odd response. I think I tried this tactic with my mother at age 10
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:53 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary whines, "But Moooooo-ooooom, the other kids are doing it so why can't I do it?"

And a voice sounding much like Bernie Sanders responds, "Because someone has to be the adult."

Also, the bizarre little sidestep into race-baiting makes me wonder if you are on the right website.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
73. I have never said she is the only choice.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:35 AM
Dec 2015

I do think we will be much stronger going into the GE with O'Malley or Clinton. The media has been fighting for a horse race between Sanders and Clinton from day one. They have yet to vet Sanders in any way. Though the corporate media have tried their, they still haven't been able to turn it into a race, despite their best efforts. I would rather not have us go into the general with a candidate like Sanders who has yet to be vetted. There is one commercial we know they will run about Sanders that is so brutal that discussion of it isn't even allowed here. That on top of all the other stories we know they are sitting on and the general is going to be a rude awakening for some if Sanders makes it through. Thankfully the people are the ones who get the last word and right now it is pretty clear the people are uniting around Clinton. It isn't often we see a party as United as we currently are.

msrizzo

(796 posts)
81. LOL, what would be the point?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:01 AM
Dec 2015

Hillary supporters get called out daily to explain one thing or another. Personally I don't think that's my job, especially since I've seen so many attempts to respond to these callouts and those that ask don't really want to hear or accept the answer. As a supporter of Hillary Clinton I can only say that I don't feel a need to fret about this. I only need to vote for my candidate and let the chips fall where they may. I think they'll fall our way.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
83. I don't hate Hillary,...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:12 AM
Dec 2015

I just think that 35 years of corporatism has taken the country in the wrong direction, hurting workers, small businesses, consumers, and the environment. Hillary is one of the leading proponents of that corporatism, and thus is not the candidate to reverse the trend.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
99. I know you say you'd rather have a nap, but you should get out more.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:12 PM
Dec 2015

I have never had anyone tell me to my face that they hate her. Never.



Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
103. Majorities of every demographic EXCEPT DEMOCRATS distrust Clinton. 68% of Democrats trust her and
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:21 PM
Dec 2015

that is a majority in the primary.

Clinton is pushing a campaign model that works in the primary and is poison in the general election. She needs to stop what she is doing and begin the task of winning back the general election voters' trust.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
106. I don't hate Hillary - It's just that I'm more of a social-democrat or New Dealer than one of these
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:32 PM
Dec 2015

'New Democrats." Unfortunately, so many of Hillary's most ardent supporters seem to be unable to differentiate disagreement on policy with hate and end up coming off sounding both slimy and downright nutty. They don't seem to realize that this does not help their cause one little bit.

Why can't they just explain why they think "New Dem" policies are better than social-democratic or New Deal/Great Society policies?

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