2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEverybody HATES Hillary.
I see it everywhere. I hear it everywhere.
Everyone hates Hillary!
Obviously, this is not true. Even here in the Sanders stronghold of DU, Hillary has a vocal and prominent following, supporting her effort to become POTUS. They are loud and proud, rightfully so. Everything points their way..... polling, money, endorsements, etc etc etc....
However, everyone STILL hates Hillary. Her strongest and most vocal supporters have told me so.
WTF?
The right hates her with a passion like none have ever known before. The "hard" left hates her equally. The moderates that don't give a shit won't go vote for her......
So, explain it to us....
Hillary is hated like a vile (add any adjective here) candidate by the right.
Hillary is hated by the evil socialist left.
Hillary is ignored and given a 'meh, I would rather just have a nap then vote' by moderates.
How is Hillary our only chance at keeping the White House again?
doc03
(35,348 posts)socialist. I wish there was someone else but that is the best chance we have.
O'Malley's plans:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813600
I would love to see O'Malley trained by Bernie on how to use the bully pulpit.
He was wrong on crime, but I see huge positives when it comes to his overall policy.
Bernie/O'Malley '16
elleng
(130,974 posts)On Criminal Justice Reform:
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/
As to his programs in Baltimore and Maryland, crime decreased significantly during his tenure, and he was re-elected with large margins both as Mayor of Baltimore and Governor of Maryland.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)However, his policies were not the best for minorities and low income individuals.
I hope he's learned from those errors after the riots, but I know Bernie could bring him around if he still needs that lesson reinforced.
I like him as a second chair.
merrily
(45,251 posts)And I think his chances in the general are much better than hers.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)those are equally as important factors.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)is the lady in the white coat. Homegirl is trying her absolute HARDEST to jam and jam hard.
elleng
(130,974 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Then I realized I just hated hearing all the complaints about her and blamed her for it. I only have a few points against her. But I have learned to LOVE her watching this primary. All kinds of formerly reasonable people have done themselves no favors with the vile hate they spew at her. She handles it well.
I cannot WAIT to cast my ballot for her.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Whow!
Thats something.
Crystalite
(164 posts)I think it's a weak attempt at sarcasm or something.
Nobody changes their candidate selection based on other candidates' supporters' statements.
That's just silly and I suspect people who are saying that are not sincere.
I mean, who does that?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)As far as to "who does that"..
Posters as above, thats who.
merrily
(45,251 posts)pick a meme, any meme.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)"Look at meeeeeeeeeeee"!
Oh and BTW I don't "hate Hillary." Stupid OP IMHO.
What I hate is the pap that passes as discussion on this board these days.
merrily
(45,251 posts)
per·for·mance art
noun
noun: performance art
an art form that combines visual art with dramatic performance.
Hmmm. Not especially helpful. Let's check "art."
art1
ärt/
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
works produced by human creative skill and imagination.
"his collection of modern art"
synonyms: fine art, artwork
"he studied art"
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture.
"she's good at art"
2.
the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
"the visual arts"
I'm going with not art, ergo, not performance art. Of course, art is highly subjective. Your results may differ.
Apparently you missed the avatars, calvary etc. etc. splattered all over. I never said or implied it was either creative or anything else positive.
To me it's more like a bad never ending Bertolt Brecht play. YMMV as well.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)months ago.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Your argument is that everyone against her sucks and has swayed your opinion. I get it, everyone loves an underdog, even when they're on top of the leaderboard.
How do we persuade everyone that currently hates Hillary to go vote for her? The list is long as I've seen you admit from time to time.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The Republicans have gone full racist, sexist, and violent. There are enough of US that are so opposed to THAT and that care about OUR FUTURE that WE will show up. And the lackadaisical Hillary Haters can spend the next eight years telling tales of how horrible she is as the rest of us get stuff done. They will cry into their soups, rend their garments, wear out fainting couches, but there are not enough of them to change the trajectory of this race. And with their off putting attitudes and tactics, there won't ever be enough of them to sustain a victory against her. So, she will win two GE's because none of their crying, rending, or wearing out will have one iota of an effect on Real Democrats who always vote Democratic.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Hillary will win the GE based solely on solid, consistent, and older Dem voters.
There are a lot of states in the GE that will make that a losing strategy.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He is polling low with Black Voters, hispanic voters, she is beating him with democratic men, women, minorities, older voters...
How will he gets these groups that are NOT INTERESTED in him to stand in long lines in swing states? Convince black voters who have to stand there for hours?
The hard left may not WANT to be won over, if they are willing to stay home, nothing we can do. We have to play to our base in a primary. We try for left leaning independents as well in the general. We need to win the Obama States. Looking at the electoral charts, I think we are pretty much ok as far as that is concerned. We have the most populous state with the most electoral votes. We need the swing states. Hillary can bring those with both Obama and Bill stumping for her, or at least supporting her. Who does Bernie have?
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)you can't turn it around to "what plan does the other have".
Hillary has a strong hate following, especially from the right. Millions that normally don't vote may come out to vote AGAINST Hillary in a GE. That is critical in states that squeaked by for Obama such as VA, NC, OH.
As her supporter how do you plan to overcome that very real problem?
Even if Hillary wins, how do the the coattails down ticket play out when that uninformed hate voter comes out and pulls the lever for a solid R ticket?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Obama had a similar problem. Racism. We managed to win. Socialism does not poll very well. You guys have no answers. I see many swipes at Clinton, but no winning plan. We know we can win the Primary and the GE. Can you say the sme?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)that will be swept into office on Bernie's coat tails? Oops-there are none.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)zigby
(125 posts)In my neck of the woods, I heard all sorts of sexist rants from the republican men who just would never vote for a woman, let alone a strong smart liberal like Hillary. I didn't like her at first because I am gay in very deep red area and I felt like she dropped the ball for us. But now I see there is so much hatred in the Right that getting a woman elected is a very strong symbol that we need. I might not have a lot in this world, but I have my vote.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)I desperately want to break the next (not the greatest) glass ceiling, but the population and it's needs are more important than that next breakthrough. Millions suffer so much every day. Change is more important than milestones.
There is far more at stake than the first female POTUS.
zigby
(125 posts)Of course policy is important! Breaking that ceiling will inspire a whole generation of young women, and Hillary has enough experience to use that energy to get things done in Washington.
Trust me, I KNOW what's at stake, I make just a bit over minimum wage trying to pay off student loans. My parents aren't getting any younger and I worry every day that they won't have enough to live comfortable in their golden years. But it's not just about me and mine, I also care about social justice and to me Hillary has come around to the point where I believe her as a supporter of gay rights, and she seems to have the best head for just about every other criminal justice issue at hand too. I mean, just compare her on ANY topic to the scary corral of republican asses...
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)and the policies he has spent his lifetime defending and expanding.
Sometimes change is more important than ceilings. You should look into our primary options a little more deeply.
Welcome to DU
zigby
(125 posts)I found this place from a Facebook graphic link, and I was impressed by the number of people on this forum. But I'm feeling a bit intimidated, people seem pretty lathered up already and we haven't even set on the republicans yet! I've read about Bernie but I just don't see how he has the numbers to compete, and again like I said the idea of having a woman shatter that ceiling is really inspiring. I hope they can work together because he really seems to care about poverty issues, like I do since I live it! lol
kath
(10,565 posts)just how much the working people of Britain enjoyed having THEIR first female head of state.
(Hint - Google this: "ding dong the witch is dead" Thatcher)
It should be about where the candidate stands on ISSUES, not what's between their legs.
zigby
(125 posts)I've totally changed my mind
JI7
(89,252 posts)but i wasn't a big fan of hers and even now i would say i like sanders personally more than her.
but i do admire her and i sure don't hate her some others. and their hatred turns me off to them and makes me see her in a more positive way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)elleng
(130,974 posts)There is a candidate who can attract support from left AND right, due to excellent and lengthy executive experience, strong policies, and many written plans to implement his policies.
O'Malley's Plans:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813600
As to 'everybody hates,' it's clearly not so; I have many friends (NOT DUers) who support her strongly, many of them strong Democrats. With support from the Democratic party, any repug can be defeated.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Thankfully, both these groups are in the minority.
And the polls and endorsements clearly show that everybody (Democrats, anyway) love Hillary.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But we first need to get through and survive the holidays.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)In fact, I'd rather watch that than do jack squat for her. She'll do nothing for me.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But will you vote for her should win the Democratic nomination? Come on, FE. Fess up. Will you set aside your own wants and needs and think about the country and do your civic duty as an American citizen and vote for Hillary Clinton should she win the nomination?
There are a lot of Democrats (just on this board) who don't love Hillary.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)If you believe all the current polls.
That's 40 pct. You seriously believe all the majority of Independents are going to swing Hillary's way? When her approval ratings with them are underwater?
And billions being used to remind them of just WHY they don't like her?
Oh but she's got it in the bag! She's the most qualified, best prepared, ready from day 1 candidate EVER!
I'd be curious to know the age of the poli-sci grad student campaign consultant who came up with those garbage talking points.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Not everyone is as focused on politics as you and I are. Most are too busy getting ready for these holidays and are focused on that. Wait until the second/third week of January. THEN you'll see a change as the wheat is separated from the chaff.
It doesn't matter who came up with the FACTS, because like it or not, those are the facts. Hillary Clinton is absolutely the most qualified, the best prepared (she went up against master campaigner, Obama, didn't she?), and the most ready from day one presidential candidate running. Bar. None.
Unlike Sanders, O'Malley, and the entire clown-car on the Right, Hillary has, for eight years, actually seen and experienced what it takes to be president, and she's done this up close and personal.
So no, it's not garbage talking points. However, it is a garbage talking point to say those are garbage talking points.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)These are laaaaame talking points.
Edit: oh yeah extra credit for throwing in "bar none"...I had forgotten about that particular groaner.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)How does Hillary overcome the outright hate many have.
Dems will sit out, moderates won't get motivated and Reps will come out in droves to vote against her.
The lesser of two evils only goes so far. Obama preached change, Hillary has little more than "I'm not as bad".
Hillary is no Obama.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)They'll tell you how she can win the GE after she's elected.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)Sanders is no Obama either, yet we are bombarded daily with posts likening his campaign to POTUS in 2008. That's out of one side of their mouth. The other side cries, moans, and groans about how much of a disappointing, corporate loving, anti-worker tool Obama is. One does not have to be a genius to understand there is no genius involved in this attempt to have it both ways.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Sanders supporters that I've incorporated some of their evasive response tactics.
But here, I'll rectify it. Take into account that I'm giving my opinion, just as you gave yours when you asked these questions:
How does Hillary overcome the outright hate many have.
Outright hatred? From who? Republicans? Who cares? That said, think the last Benghazi committee. She was a genius. Or hatred from the extreme Left? Again, who cares? They never even liked her and yet she's at the top in all polling that doesn't include Republican participants. The minority vote will put her over the top, just as we've done with President Obama in 2012. Minorities LOVE Hillary Clinton.
Dems will sit out,
Not the true-blue Dems. And certainly not in the presidential elections. But maybe the fake and/or fair-weather ones might decide to stay home and bake waffles instead of doing their civic duty, but they don't care about the country as a whole and never have, so no loss there.
moderates won't get motivated and
Moderates, unlike the extreme left, actually like Hillary Clinton. They don't care for Bernie Sanders and they don't care for Republicans. So no problem there, either.
Reps will come out in droves to vote against her.
I'm sure they will. But guess what? They won't get anywhere, again, thanks to the minority vote. If you haven't noticed lately, the xenophobia and racism is running rampant among their clown-car bunch, and they haven't endeared themselves with minorities. I'm sure there are a few who'll still vote Republican, but they'll be inconsequential.
The lesser of two evils only goes so far. Obama preached change, Hillary has little more than "I'm not as bad".
And here anti-Hillary Clinton people make their biggest mistake. She's NOT "the lesser of two evils". She's actually a true-blue Democrat, and, probably much to the surprise of many, she and Sanders have voted the same 93 percent of the time in the two years they were together in the Senate.
Hillary is no Obama.
And yet, despite Senator Obama's incredibly large crowds, inspiring speeches, charisma, and oratory skills, she carved out a slim majority for herself, but Obama beat her in the delegate game that had him win the nom. He was savvier by gathering delegates behind the scenes, and it were these delegates that broke the near-tie and had him win. She won't make that same mistake this time around. In fact, she's all but locked up the delegates and has already received 452 Democratic Rep., Senator, and Governor endorsements.
In contrast, Sanders has two and Martin O'Malley has ONE.
rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)i know what hate is. It does not come from the left.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)So in fact the "Everyone hates Hillary" thought is a lie.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Gonna take a bit more than that next November.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)30% of 30%?
Gonna take a LOT, lot more than a bit, next November.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Imagine how hard it is for Bernie, who is getting his ass kicked by her.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Bernie is covered in five and a half. Not quite buried but a hell of a lot closer to be buried than getting out.
TM99
(8,352 posts)of registered Democratic voters like Clinton.
How y'all can't see the problems beyond the primary is beyond me.
And the bullshit that we are somehow the selfish ones for wanting Sanders for both political and ideological reason when Clinton has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the GE.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)You might want to pay a bit more attention to math. Roughly 83% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Hillary, compared to 53% for Bernie.
You guys always point to Hillary being disliked by the GOP and Independents but unless something changes it won't matter. Bernie won't win the Dem nomination. Or should we just change the rules because a vocal minority of the Democratic party wants Bernie?
One other thing your side ignores. To you and most other Bernie supporters Hillary's numbers with Independents can't be fixed. I say when the voters get a choice of Hillary or any of the GOP contenders they will vote Hillary even if it is voting against the other side.
TM99
(8,352 posts)I personally don't think she will win the primary. She is a known failure as a candidate and is in much the same positioning as in 2008.
Of course it matters that Independents and the GOP so strongly dislike Clinton. God forbid she gets the primary nod, she will be slaughtered in the GE.
No, those numbers can't be fixed. She is a known commodity. She has a fabulously long history of gaffes, racism, lies, distortions, triangulations, etc. What, you think that people have forgotten that shit?
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)How else could I believe my candidate who has a near 30 point lead could possibly win the nomination.
Silly me
TM99
(8,352 posts)She had the lead last time too.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Most think like I do, that which ever one it is they will do a great job. Even the GOPers I know are afraid of HRC winning and they will say it with worry. I believe they know their candidates are all fkd.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)And the fact that they don't think Trump can beat Bernie or HRC.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Now you got me all curious.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Roughly 10% are true "swing voters" in that they'll vote for either party. They're also the least informed voters, and generally choose their candidate "on a whim". As a result, targeting them is very unreliable.
About 20% are Democratic-leaning independents. They will vote for Democrats, or stay home if they don't like the Democrat. They are to the left of the median Democrat.
About 20% are Republican-leaning independents. They will vote for Republicans, or stay home if they don't like the Republican. They are also to the left of the median Republican. They are somewhat more likely to vote than the Democratic-leaning independents.
The roughly 30% that belong to a party will almost always vote, and the roughly 10% swing voters will always vote, but generally split their vote.
It's the remaining 40% of independents who actually decide elections. it is extremely common for pollsters to treat this group as a single blob, creating the false appearance that this group is centrist - they're effectively averaging Republicans and Democrats, so of course the result is "in the middle". But the Democratic-leaning ones will never vote Republican, and the Republican-leaning ones will never vote Democratic.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Even if the card holder is Trump or Carson? You believe the traditional voters will still go for them? I figured even Trump, Cruz and Carson are too radical for the old neocons that will go vote.
You got me worried now.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Even if that Republican promises to execute everyone who votes for him.
Republican-leaning independents may or may not vote for a crazy Republican. That's where the 25 years of demonizing Clinton may come in. It makes Republican-leaning independents much more likely to show up even if the Republican is crazy.
Team Clinton REALLY needs a plan to get Democratic-leaning independents to the polls, and she does not appear to even consider this a problem, much less have a plan.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Hard to tell from south Texas where we Dems are few and far inbetween.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)honesty. She is no Barack Obama, she is not getting the base on her side yet, but man, if you think Trump is not totally dishonest with all his lies and most likely, he will be the Republican nominee, you all have got to vote for Mrs. Clinton, she will be the nominee. In as much as I like Mr. Sanders, he is not gaining momentum. Enough said!
Remember, it is a long ways ahead for voting in the US, but as far as I recall, once the GOP and the Democratic party select a nominee, you all are stuck with that person. No longer can Joe Biden step in to help, he nor Mrs. Warren are not interested. Game over, we are just waiting for the results.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)fail to see why I should not be able to do whatever I want with my vote in the primary.
Until the primary is over it is insane to let fear of losing to that pack of idiots in R party push me to vote for anyone I do not believe in. And since we have not even had one primary caucus or election yet it is even more insane to let others tell us how to vote.
This election we have two candidates going one way and the other off on her Third Way route. For the first time in a long time we actually have a choice. All this screaming and yelling about it all being over is premature. And it is usually being done by Hillary supporters who are afraid of competition.
As for me and mine we will stick with Bernie until it is REALLY over.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)that's why I support her
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)running against President Obama. I thought I would dislike her with a passion. Not now, I will give her a pass if she is the nominee but somehow, I do not trust her warlike attitude. Just my opinion!
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)You wouldn't be making shit up would you?
I'm a progressive Democrat and I can't wait to vote for Hillary. I think she will be a great president.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)I can say that I replied to at least one solid HRC supporter in the last 6 hours. You're welcome to search out that thread on your own, but I will not turn this into some meta crap.
Otherwise, there is an overwhelming message on DU about the outright HATE for Hillary. It gets pointed out to me on DU, on other blogs, and talking to people face to face.
If you have not run into Hillary hate yet, then you must be in one very special place that doesn't represent the whole of the nation. Hillary has haters and those in tune know it.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)LOL
Too late, your OP already is.
BTW, saying "Hillary has haters" (which I do not dispute) is very different from saying "everyone hates Hillary." But you knew that.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)but you read that.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)angrychair
(8,702 posts)These negatives or not. As I have stated, if she is nominated to the general, I will vote for her but I will do it with tears in my eyes, I will still be casting my vote but I will be doing it for a Democratic Party that no longer cares about people like me: middle class, drowning in student loan debt, barely (sometimes don't) makes ends meet. A party that cares more about Wall St than my street. A party that cares more about electing presidents than actual policy that matters, actual elections that matter (state, county and city elections matter more) that care more about endorsements from unions than they do about actual unions.
So while you may well crow and strut on the morning of November 5, I'll morn the fact I lost my Party and we have lost the vast majority of all state legislatures and federal House seats and could very well be out in the cold for a decade or more.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)First, if you're drowning in debt and working from check to check, you are not middle class. You a struggling to stay out of outright poverty and nothing more.
Second, the first primary vote has yet to be cast. I won't concede the GE until we at least decide the primary.
Can Hillary win it all? I seriously doubt it. at absolute best, she pulls off a win, while every lower ticket race is decimated for Democrats.
Thankfully, not a single vote has been cast in the Primary. We have time to get the message out.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)in support of Sanders you better believe HRC damn sure has a better chance. The fringe left has become just as unhinged as the Tea Party on the right & I'll be damned if I want that kind of crap being what is supposed to be our becon of hope.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)and critiquing her policy positions and voting record. How DARE they!
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)I am also very excited about her candidacy.
I believe that of our three excellent candidates that she is the "whole" package.
I do not HATE her.
I am a poster on DU.
My post alone shows the fallacy in your premise. And my post is not the only one.
I do not care for many remarks made by DU posters who seem not to be Democrats (many are equally as nasty towards our current POTUS) and who seize upon any opportunity to make nasty and biased remarks towards Hillary merely for the sake of making them. And then try to justify those remarks by repeating RW TPs.
I respect those posters who support other candidates (all three are excellent, IMO, as I have repeated and will continue to repeat) and who make their points without having to disrespect or slander the other two with every single post they make. I respect comparisons of the candidates on issues - so long as the whole truth is told - rather than the repetition of RW TPs.
In spite of DU - Hillary will do just fine. If she wins the primaries - as is more likely in the cards than not - she will do just fine in the GE - unless the majority of the US population goes insane.
Because every single one of the GOPer candidates IS insane.
Never. Forget. That.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Maybe that's why DINO-Debbie is rooting for her?
Response to Cassiopeia (Original post)
Post removed
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I'm not sure which polls you're looking at, but they may be flawed.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I'm dead serious, I have yet to meet one black person who supports Hillary to be their President.
I'm sure they are out there, I'll keep looking for one.
Cha
(297,323 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)A white guy that, clearly, knows nothing of/has little interaction with the Black community (per his "I haven't met any Black HRC supporters" blames white pollsters for HRC's supporter in the Black community?
DU doesn't get much better than that!
What does DU stand for, again . Delusional Underground? ... Denial Underground? ... Dammit and stomp out feet Underground?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I can hardly make sense of it.
You're saying Hillary supporters told you everyone hates Hillary?
Okie dokie....
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)The left and right hate HRC, the middle doesn't care.
I have read that right here on DU in fact, within the last 7 hours or so, from very outspoken Hillary supporters.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Clinton's leading within every demographic group on the Democratic side but it's closer with some segments of the electorate than others. She leads Sanders just 50/36 with white voters, but is up 70/13 with African Americans and 84/8 with Hispanics. She leads Sanders just 47/32 with men, but is up 69/22 with women. She leads Sanders just 53/32 with younger voters, but is up 66/17 with seniors. And she leads Sanders by just 17 with 'very liberal' voters at 56/39, but is up 34 with moderates at 56/22, and 49 points with 'somewhat liberal' voters at 72/23.
Not sure where you're getting your data from.
Most polls I've seen show her getting a lot of support from liberal voters.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)at least when asking about Clinton. Methodology matters.
She's leading among 30% of the electorate. You don't win with 30% of the electorate. How does Clinton get enough of the independents (who do not trust her) in order to defeat the Republicans + Right-leaning independents who loathe her?
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Misogyny.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)I mean really hate: Biden, Kerry, Harken, Reid, Cleland, Rockefeller? All Dems who voted the same way?
The HRC "hate" meme is overblown. On DU, meh, not the real world. She has well-financed enemies in the gop -any leading dem would. Still, nationally, she's more well liked than any candidate in the race (except Carson, whose average hasn't yet caught up to his implosion).
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#favorability-ratings
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)When compared to Bernie Sanders.
Hillary Clinton is unqualified to be President.
Corporate interests control her, she makes poor decisions knowing they will harm the country, has never shown any leadership on any progressive issue except to follow focus groups, and she is undermining the institution of democracy through this primary process.
She uses mealy-mouthed language that reassures gullible people, but she always tilts back to the GOP.
The idea that we must support an unqualified candidate in the primary because she is the lesser of the GOP evils is poor tactics. Now is the time to advocate for the candidate that shows good leadership, serves the regular folks in this country, stands by his values, and supports the democracy.
We are not comparing her to the GOP, but to the other candidates running in the Democratic primary, and she is woefully deficient.
Bernie Sanders is the better choice.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)She wasn't, there was a large portion of Democrats, including the Vice President of the United States of the last 8 years (whom nobody seemed to have a big issue with).
So right back at ya mate.
This sounds soo much like the typical "I'm not racist because I have a black friend" argument that modern racists just love to trot out.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Hillary whines, "But Moooooo-ooooom, the other kids are doing it so why can't I do it?"
And a voice sounding much like Bernie Sanders responds, "Because someone has to be the adult."
Also, the bizarre little sidestep into race-baiting makes me wonder if you are on the right website.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I do think we will be much stronger going into the GE with O'Malley or Clinton. The media has been fighting for a horse race between Sanders and Clinton from day one. They have yet to vet Sanders in any way. Though the corporate media have tried their, they still haven't been able to turn it into a race, despite their best efforts. I would rather not have us go into the general with a candidate like Sanders who has yet to be vetted. There is one commercial we know they will run about Sanders that is so brutal that discussion of it isn't even allowed here. That on top of all the other stories we know they are sitting on and the general is going to be a rude awakening for some if Sanders makes it through. Thankfully the people are the ones who get the last word and right now it is pretty clear the people are uniting around Clinton. It isn't often we see a party as United as we currently are.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Sounds like Bargaining.
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)Who just endorsed her and not Bernie
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)greenman3610
(3,947 posts)you really should get out more.
msrizzo
(796 posts)Hillary supporters get called out daily to explain one thing or another. Personally I don't think that's my job, especially since I've seen so many attempts to respond to these callouts and those that ask don't really want to hear or accept the answer. As a supporter of Hillary Clinton I can only say that I don't feel a need to fret about this. I only need to vote for my candidate and let the chips fall where they may. I think they'll fall our way.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I just think that 35 years of corporatism has taken the country in the wrong direction, hurting workers, small businesses, consumers, and the environment. Hillary is one of the leading proponents of that corporatism, and thus is not the candidate to reverse the trend.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Nitram
(22,822 posts)LOL
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I have never had anyone tell me to my face that they hate her. Never.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)some have fallen for the false promises
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)that is a majority in the primary.
Clinton is pushing a campaign model that works in the primary and is poison in the general election. She needs to stop what she is doing and begin the task of winning back the general election voters' trust.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)'New Democrats." Unfortunately, so many of Hillary's most ardent supporters seem to be unable to differentiate disagreement on policy with hate and end up coming off sounding both slimy and downright nutty. They don't seem to realize that this does not help their cause one little bit.
Why can't they just explain why they think "New Dem" policies are better than social-democratic or New Deal/Great Society policies?
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)what an idiotic OP