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Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:18 AM Dec 2015

No one trusts Clinton except middle aged and older Democrats. Everyone else deeply distrusts her.

Only 26% of Independents think Clinton is "honest and trustworthy."

Only 7% of Republicans agree that Clinton is "honest and trustworthy."

By comparison, the next most distrusted candidate in either party, Trump, does 10% better than Clinton and is more trusted than Clinton among Independents, and Trump has more cross-over appeal among Democrats as compared to Clinton's virtually nonexistent appeal among Republicans.

Sanders is the most trusted candidate. He is trusted by almost three times as many Independents as Clinton (64%) and by over five times as many Republicans (39%).

This means Clinton would badly lose the independent vote and has virtually no potential for cross-over appeal for ticket-splitting Republicans.

Even among Democrats, Clinton is losing to Sanders by 66% to 17% among 18-29 year old Democrats. Only 24% of voters 18-34 trust Clinton, and Sanders is two and a half times more trusted (59%).

Can Clinton win the primary when she's only trusted by middle aged Democrats? Maybe, but it would be a dead end for our general election hopes because Clinton cannot expand beyond her base of middle aged moderate Democrats.
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No one trusts Clinton except middle aged and older Democrats. Everyone else deeply distrusts her. (Original Post) Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 OP
You forgot BLACKS, HISPANICS, WOMEN, all democrats all voting Hillary. bravenak Dec 2015 #1
The OP is talking about the General. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #9
He will not be in the General. bravenak Dec 2015 #10
The point still applies. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #11
Bravenak's point is HUGE! Hillary is THE candidate who Hortensis Dec 2015 #44
No, she actually doesn't. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #73
We'll be hearing more about the swing states as more polling data gets accumulated Babel_17 Dec 2015 #95
IMO, FE, this is wishful thinking. The one person you should Hortensis Dec 2015 #97
Those 18-29 year olds? Over half of them are PoC, Hispanics, and women. eom Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #14
Yeah. They will still break for Hillary. bravenak Dec 2015 #17
No they won't. That's what the polls tell us. 59% for Sanders, remember? Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #21
Yeah. He just cannot beat her. She is over 50 percent. bravenak Dec 2015 #22
Counting on Middle-aged and older Democrats voting in droves will not win you the GE. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #24
His worldview is stuck in the forties with FDR. bravenak Dec 2015 #26
The forties preceded the longest sustained economic growth in U.S. history. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #29
While blacks and women made barely any sustainable gains. bravenak Dec 2015 #30
That's an astute list of the things that we shouldn't revisit. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #32
If course we deserve a sustained era of economic growth. bravenak Dec 2015 #33
This is clawing at straws on your part. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #40
Yup. As usual ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #108
Ya! So, young white men do not trust Clinton. Hm, go figure. Wanting Sanders middle class fairy dust seabeyond Dec 2015 #122
I am 54 and do not care for her either. I will agree he skews a little younger CBGLuthier Dec 2015 #2
Women don't trust Bernie MaggieD Dec 2015 #3
We are all elderly and middle aged. bravenak Dec 2015 #27
There are scores of women on DU who trust Bernie. senz Dec 2015 #35
I'm a 75 year old WOMAN and I trust Bernie big time. Paka Dec 2015 #41
I see Hillary as a chameleon. Laelth Dec 2015 #43
Thank you for that good assessment. Paka Dec 2015 #100
She'd tailor her actions to sustain corp. donations to fund campaign for 2nd term. Divernan Dec 2015 #115
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #58
THIS!!!!!! Fawke Em Dec 2015 #78
Yes, actually, we do trust him. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #76
Well your "we" doesn't seem to be translating to the polls MaggieD Dec 2015 #81
I'm not worried. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #85
Keep dreaming MaggieD Dec 2015 #88
I'm older, and I deeply distrust her. grasswire Dec 2015 #4
Same here. senz Dec 2015 #36
I agree MissDeeds Dec 2015 #47
At VCU, my daughter has told me Bernie is the man. rusty quoin Dec 2015 #5
yup ibegurpard Dec 2015 #6
Too bad we old-ass school marms vote and do election work. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #7
I already forgot the old-ass school marm insult! There are so many it's hard to keep track. betsuni Dec 2015 #16
At least we've moved on from "brain damaged" Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #18
Waste of time. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #79
Haha! You're a card! Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #91
And Harangue meringue! bravenak Dec 2015 #23
I loved that subthread. :D Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #49
It was fun for me too. bravenak Dec 2015 #92
Yes, way too bad that that huge "except" group is the Hortensis Dec 2015 #59
Can you blame them for NOT trusting her? pinebox Dec 2015 #8
And it's only part of the Dem bubble. senz Dec 2015 #37
Those "issues" are mostly made up bull shit from Bernie supporters. Why do you think we should give upaloopa Dec 2015 #48
made up BS from rightwing sources .... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #51
LOL You don't need RW sources when your candidate is so weak pinebox Dec 2015 #65
So why does DU:Bernie continue to do so ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #66
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #67
I don't know ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #70
I'm speaking with one :) pinebox Dec 2015 #80
No, you're not. But, you knew that or you should know it. Cha Dec 2015 #120
This seems to make the rounds every few hours. It's rife with either intentional or unintentional... George II Dec 2015 #113
You've been made a mark upaloopa pinebox Dec 2015 #64
I honestly don't see how you could trust her. Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #12
63, and female... Ino Dec 2015 #13
33, gay male: lost all faith in her. n/t Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #15
I don't trust Bernie AT ALL MaggieD Dec 2015 #20
I don't think the Danes are having a pie in the sky. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #25
He's worked respectfully with Dems for decades, never dissed them, senz Dec 2015 #38
older female - sure as hell don't trust her. 840high Dec 2015 #31
55 year old beltanefauve Dec 2015 #19
The I will never vote for him/her factor will decide this election leveymg Dec 2015 #28
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #34
Citing demographics is not age-bashing. senz Dec 2015 #39
Nobody appears ready to seriously challenge Clinton. Laelth Dec 2015 #42
If that happens Robbins Dec 2015 #68
Those who have known her the longest trust her the most. Nt NCTraveler Dec 2015 #45
Nope. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #83
So you believe the op to be using false metrice? Interesting. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #87
LMAO! leftofcool Dec 2015 #46
We middle aged and older Dems . . . Gamecock Lefty Dec 2015 #50
I still don't understand why I should distrust Clinton. betsuni Dec 2015 #52
Because Republicans are telling you to redstateblues Dec 2015 #56
you wish ibegurpard Dec 2015 #123
Beware! WhaTHellsgoingonhere Dec 2015 #53
73 percent of Democrats say she is honest and trustworthy in that poll oberliner Dec 2015 #54
yeah she has great leadership qualitys Robbins Dec 2015 #72
Sanders and Clinton are both fantastic candidates in my opinion oberliner Dec 2015 #75
Funny, the OP ignored that part. DCBob Dec 2015 #82
Democrats are 30% of the electorate. You don't win the general election with 30%. jeff47 Dec 2015 #103
Democrats + some independents = winning the general election oberliner Dec 2015 #106
And when you don't get those independents? jeff47 Dec 2015 #107
That wouldn't be good oberliner Dec 2015 #109
"Republicans bad!" does not work. jeff47 Dec 2015 #112
Agreed oberliner Dec 2015 #114
No, we actually aren't agreed jeff47 Dec 2015 #116
I am a middle-aged female TBF Dec 2015 #55
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #57
I am 67 years old. Hepburn Dec 2015 #60
polls are entertaining enough, but you blew it when you pointed to Trump polling better bigtree Dec 2015 #61
Talking with a registered Ind. "elderly" woman the other day and she said "Hillary is such a liar." Hiraeth Dec 2015 #62
I don't have much faith in your data analysis... SidDithers Dec 2015 #63
Well, Bernie can't win if he cannot connect to latinos and African-Americans--a big problem so far book_worm Dec 2015 #69
who says he can't Robbins Dec 2015 #74
What's middle aged these days? Fawke Em Dec 2015 #71
Middle aged covers whatever age I am at the momemt. Hepburn Dec 2015 #84
What a great perspective! Fawke Em Dec 2015 #86
Thanks...! n/t Hepburn Dec 2015 #89
Way overstated, and based on surveys of all political leanings. MineralMan Dec 2015 #77
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #90
It's an Unusual Election gordyfl Dec 2015 #93
the fact that she is being investigated by the fbi should be an end to her campaign questionseverything Dec 2015 #117
I'm 65 and I DON'T trust her. hobbit709 Dec 2015 #94
I'm an AARP Card Carrying Member and I Don't Trust Her, Either gordyfl Dec 2015 #96
None of the middle aged or older Democrats I know trust her either. CharlotteVale Dec 2015 #98
The ONLY people who trust Bernie are white, male Archie Bunkers from the midwest and rural northeast Sancho Dec 2015 #99
Yeah, I'm sure Archie Bunker types are going to support a guy Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #118
That's what poll analysis shows... Sancho Dec 2015 #119
You mean, like this rally Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #121
Great examples...I see Archie! Sancho Dec 2015 #124
And I see lots of "Glorias" and "Michaels" there as well Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #125
No one trusts Clinton except middle aged and older Democrats, bvar22 Dec 2015 #101
Don't know where this information was collected, he gave out information last year he had Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #102
I'm middle-aged and I don't trust her further than I could throw a scalded cat. Jester Messiah Dec 2015 #104
This middle aged TransitJohn Dec 2015 #105
Come on. I'm an older Democrat and I deeply mistrust her. I wasn't polled. EndElectoral Dec 2015 #110
Oh No!! ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #111
Yet she is still beating he opponents. hrmjustin Dec 2015 #126
Keep trying liberal N proud Dec 2015 #127
But she will win HassleCat Dec 2015 #128
where do they get this stuff bkkyosemite Dec 2015 #129
Snd yet predictwise and Nate Silver still think that Clinton will be the nominee Gothmog Dec 2015 #130
Is 37 middle age? I don't trust her. (nt) bigwillq Dec 2015 #131
the FBI'd confiscation of the email server will not help this issue Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #132
my 19 year old reads DU...she is deeply mistrustful of Bernie...you guys have done a bang up job lol Sheepshank Dec 2015 #133
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
1. You forgot BLACKS, HISPANICS, WOMEN, all democrats all voting Hillary.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:20 AM
Dec 2015

She is winning with ALL DEMOCRATIC GROUPS except millenials where he barely beats her. Why did you leave out very important Demographics? We matter too!!! Why are you erasing us like we do not exist!?!?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. The OP is talking about the General.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:55 AM
Dec 2015

Mondale did excellent among minorities in the Democratic primaries; black voters supported him over Jackson five-to-three!

Reagan fucking crushed Mondale in the General. it was like a cheeto going up against a steamroller. Mondale carried his home state, barely. it was one of the most spectacular defeats in Us presidential history. It hit the democratic party so hard that we still have trouble feeling the left side of our body.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
11. The point still applies.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:58 AM
Dec 2015

You can sweep a primary and still get your teeth kicked out in the general.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
44. Bravenak's point is HUGE! Hillary is THE candidate who
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 07:14 AM
Dec 2015

has broad support from Americans across the racial-ethnic-religious spectrum. Bernie wants it but hasn't achieved it.

The GOP is now the party of conservative white Christians and Big Money -- both very much minorities -- and America knows it, so their nominee will focus on winning by overwhelming campaign spending, mud slinging, voter suppression, and perhaps even less legal measures.

Again, Hillary is the one candidate supported by all major Democratic voter groups. This will also be true for most of Bernie's and O'Malley's supporters when and if the time comes.

She is the best choice we have to represent the 300 million people of our very diverse republic. No one else even begins to come close.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
73. No, she actually doesn't.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:20 PM
Dec 2015

She only has support from uninformed and/or right-leaning Democrats. She's not popular with left-leaning Dems or Independents. And the right wing absolutely abhors her. You can't win the general with 30 percent of the voters - which is about what she has.

She will lose Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and Colorado and, thus, the presidency.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
95. We'll be hearing more about the swing states as more polling data gets accumulated
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:04 PM
Dec 2015

We need to win the swing states. Ask President Gore about how the popular vote matters if the Electoral College votes in your opponent. (answer: it doesn't trump the electoral college)
We need to win the swing states and that means we need to win the Independent voters, and all voters who can be swayed.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
97. IMO, FE, this is wishful thinking. The one person you should
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:37 PM
Dec 2015

be able to trust to tell you the truth is yourself. I do try to not betray my responsibility to myself by indulging in satisfying beliefs that are contradicted by easily obtained information. I also do like to believe I succeed most of the time. Think about it.

BTW, I have always been a left-leaning Democrat and fully expect to vote for HRC. I am also part of by far the largest block in the Democratic Party, and we are trying to stop hard-core conservatives from ruining this country and continue the rebuilding we helped start when we elected Obama. IMO, you went astray when you decided to believe that people like me are actually centrist and even right-leaning, and that's interfering with your understanding of what's happening.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
17. Yeah. They will still break for Hillary.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:12 AM
Dec 2015

Hard to poll them since they are not likely voters, many of them. It take two cycles of voting to be on those rolls. He is not winning the hispanic and black youth, he is winning the white youth by large margins. It shifts the totals in his favor. But since they do not vote as consistantly as we do they are not to be counted on to WIN it for him.
His only chances for winning in primaries are largely populated by a homogenous group.
Once in diverse places he loses his ability to connect with the voters. They do not know him. He never made himself known in 30 years.
Hillary will beat him in all but one or two states as it stands and I see no where for him to start peeling off her voters since they like her. Nobody ever explains how he wins the primary with only 3 STATES. It boggles my mind.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
21. No they won't. That's what the polls tell us. 59% for Sanders, remember?
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:18 AM
Dec 2015

That 59% is NOT just white men. Especially among Millennials, there is no way of getting to 59 % with just white men.

And if 18-29 year olds are difficult to poll, Clinton could be in for a nasty surprise when the Millennials vote in droves in the primaries.

DWS and her coronation committee may want to ignore the Millennials altogether, but that's going to be difficult when they start casting votes.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
22. Yeah. He just cannot beat her. She is over 50 percent.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:19 AM
Dec 2015

Counting on millenials voting in droves will lead to heartache.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
24. Counting on Middle-aged and older Democrats voting in droves will not win you the GE.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:26 AM
Dec 2015

Clinton's strategy focuses so much on the established base, she will bring heartache in the GE if she were to be nominated. Centrist Third Way corporatism has come and gone. It is over.

Much as I'd like to see a female president one day, I'd rather have a candidate who's worldview isn't stuck in the 90-ies. I'd prefer one who is principled, and who doesn't need three focus groups and five polls before she reluctantly shifts to the right side of history on GLBT rights - to name but one example.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
26. His worldview is stuck in the forties with FDR.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:31 AM
Dec 2015

Completely ignores complex issues such as erasure and intersectionality.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
29. The forties preceded the longest sustained economic growth in U.S. history.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:39 AM
Dec 2015

The nineties preceded the recession we are still in (except for the 1 %).

Not discounting the complexity of the issue, but maybe there are some things from the forties we should revisit?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
30. While blacks and women made barely any sustainable gains.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:43 AM
Dec 2015

No legislation on lynching, we were still being murdered in droves. Womens rights got nowhere. Black domestics were left out of the New Deal, black veterns were unable to use their GI bills in many places. It was GREAT for white men, the rest of us got that trickle down socialism.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
32. That's an astute list of the things that we shouldn't revisit.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:51 AM
Dec 2015

You could add the oppression of LGBT people and the poverty among elder citizens and a few things more.

Now here is a question for you:

Does everyone, irrespective of age and gender and race and sexual orientation, deserve to enjoy a long sustained era of economic growth?

Or should we drag everybody down to the level of the dispossessed and the working poor?

(Hint: Clinton's corporate donors would like the second answer.)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
33. If course we deserve a sustained era of economic growth.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:57 AM
Dec 2015

But it won't happen for minorities until the race shit is fixed. We will recieve trickle down unless we get our men out of jail, our schools get a fair share of money and teachers, our kids get treated just like white kids by teachers and police. As it stands, the bulk would go to those who ALREADY have more than us. And we will be ignored and told what is best for us and that we are never satisfied as we die in the streets.
A man who huffs off from confrontation is not strong enough for this fight. A man who has no idea what is being done in his name to those very blacks he professes to care about is not READY.
A man who erases the race of the sanitation strikers does not understand the issues facing my people. A man who co opts the legacy of MLK for his political use is not good enough. He cannot do anything people say he can and he knows it.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
40. This is clawing at straws on your part.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:20 AM
Dec 2015

Sanders gave BLM the podium at his next rally. Clinton had them expulsed. Who is the callous one here? Who is unready to lead the nation? Who is willing to listen and address issues? And who is once again signalling an air of entitlement: "don't get between me and my coronation."?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
122. Ya! So, young white men do not trust Clinton. Hm, go figure. Wanting Sanders middle class fairy dust
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:09 PM
Dec 2015

and rainbows. I can get on board with that.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
2. I am 54 and do not care for her either. I will agree he skews a little younger
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:26 AM
Dec 2015

but not all of us "old folk" buy her brand of horseshit.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
27. We are all elderly and middle aged.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:32 AM
Dec 2015

I guess I better tell my husband that I am too old to bear him the one final child he wants. Must start getting my outfit ready for my funeral.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
35. There are scores of women on DU who trust Bernie.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 04:40 AM
Dec 2015

And many more offline.

That old article that you hope to sink him with was brought out in the media months ago. He wrote it over 40 years ago as an attempt to analyze some of the problems in society back in the 70s, and he has already addressed the article as very poorly written.

He was a successful mayor and a faithful, hardworking congressman and senator for 25 years. He is who he has been for all this time. He's had no infidelities or scandals while serving the public, and his relationship with his wife Jane is solid and faithful.

You're too late with the article. Trying to use it to hurt him is not a tactic anyone would be proud of.

Paka

(2,760 posts)
41. I'm a 75 year old WOMAN and I trust Bernie big time.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:22 AM
Dec 2015

I do not trust HRC and haven't for over 20 years. She is a pathetic liar. But I guess I don't count as a WOMAN because I don't think a vagina is everything in this election.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
43. I see Hillary as a chameleon.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 07:11 AM
Dec 2015

I think she'll go whichever way the wind is blowing, and if it's blowing left, I think she'll do a fine job as President. If the wind is blowing right (as it was when her husband was President), we'll see triangulation with the right on a number of key issues, but a basically centrist government.

We may still get some liberal appointments to the SCOTUS out of Hillary if we have 60+ votes in the Senate, and this will happen without regard to the direction the political wind is blowing. If Generation Y (more liberal than my 50/50 split Generation X) and the Millennials (more liberal than Generation Y) are any indication, and if Canada's recent elections are a harbinger of things to come, the wind does appear to be blowing left. That assuages some of my fears regarding another Clinton Presidency. Besides, I think Bill would like to see Hillary correct some of his mistakes and will be interested in shoring up his legacy through Hillary's Presidency (if he can--no clue as to how much influence he may actually wield over Hillary's decision-making processes).

-Laelth

Paka

(2,760 posts)
100. Thank you for that good assessment.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:23 PM
Dec 2015

I hope you are right. I just don't have the same faith you do that she won't continue tacking right. IMHO, she wouldn't hesitate for one second to throw the lefties like myself "under the bus" given the slightest chance.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
115. She'd tailor her actions to sustain corp. donations to fund campaign for 2nd term.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:38 PM
Dec 2015

She (& Bill) are literally millions in debt to One Percent/Wall Street/Big Banking & multiple corporate interests. Those debts will be called in if she ends up in the Oval Office. As long as the Clintons make nice, should she be elected, the dollars will also keep flowing in to the Clinton Family Foundation.

Response to MaggieD (Reply #3)

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
76. Yes, actually, we do trust him.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:23 PM
Dec 2015

Stop speaking for me.

I'm a woman. I trust him. Therefore "women don't trust" is WRONG.

Why must you pretend you speak for all women? You don't speak for me.

 

rusty quoin

(6,133 posts)
5. At VCU, my daughter has told me Bernie is the man.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:28 AM
Dec 2015

This guy from 60s university thinking is the favorite of today's university thinking. I find it exciting. I finally have hope.

That said, they have to vote in large numbers.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
7. Too bad we old-ass school marms vote and do election work.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:34 AM
Dec 2015

If you are waiting for Independents to do phone-banking and election work, you'll be covered in cobwebs.

betsuni

(25,663 posts)
16. I already forgot the old-ass school marm insult! There are so many it's hard to keep track.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:10 AM
Dec 2015

Just in the last hour I've seen "porcine chorus" and "goon squad" and that anyone supporting Clinton are fools and that's even worse than Stockholm Syndrome.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
18. At least we've moved on from "brain damaged"
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:14 AM
Dec 2015

I will be thinking of them all with affection in my heart as I dial numbers when phone-banking for HRC in the GE.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
59. Yes, way too bad that that huge "except" group is the
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:56 AM
Dec 2015

large, solid core of the Democratic Party. Seems I've been missing all the good stuff here. Darn?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
8. Can you blame them for NOT trusting her?
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:52 AM
Dec 2015

She has a laundry list a mile long of issues and yet her supporters don't think this matters. She's faulty! In a general she's going to get slaughtered. That is my biggest fear. She is popular in the dem bubble ONLY. The entire country is NOT democrats. I wish people would realize that.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
48. Those "issues" are mostly made up bull shit from Bernie supporters. Why do you think we should give
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:46 AM
Dec 2015

your lies credence?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
65. LOL You don't need RW sources when your candidate is so weak
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:03 PM
Dec 2015

And changes her position every week.
But of course any reality that shows Hillary is her real light is BS right wing LOL

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #66)

George II

(67,782 posts)
113. This seems to make the rounds every few hours. It's rife with either intentional or unintentional...
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:15 PM
Dec 2015

..."errors".

For example, when did Hillary Clinton vote for war with Syria? When did the US go to war with Syria?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
64. You've been made a mark upaloopa
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:00 PM
Dec 2015

Are these lies? Made up by Bernie supporters? Are they? No this is YOUR candidate. OWN IT!

Hillary and the issues;

DOMA
DADT
NAFTA
No living wage
No national health care
KXL
TPP
Lies about taking sniper fire
Iraq war vote
Massive ties to wall street and big banks
Disparaging remarks about undocumented workers

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
12. I honestly don't see how you could trust her.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:00 AM
Dec 2015

I guess your typical HRC supporter is pretty comfy. I haven't ran into any downtrodden Hillary supporters. However, I've found a few wealthy Sanders supporters. Anecdotal, sure - but it's true from my perspective. Which is what anecdotal means... I'm feeling redundant, kinda like trying to speak to her supporters - it's futile.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
20. I don't trust Bernie AT ALL
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:15 AM
Dec 2015

Dude dissed Dems for decades and refused to join the party, but suddenly has a conversion and decides to opportunistically run to be nominated as the Dem candidate?

Proposes pie in the sky shit and promises voters things he KNOWS he cannot pass, and demonstrated that he cannot pass them over 25 years in congress.

Seriously, what is there to trust about a politician like that?????? Nothing trustworthy about Bernie in the least.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
25. I don't think the Danes are having a pie in the sky.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:31 AM
Dec 2015

If they can do it, so can the USA.

Need to get things passed? Stop caving to the GOP all the time. Campaign on every level. 50 state strategy. Turn red to purple and purple to blue and blue to deep-deep-deep-blue no-go area for the GOP. We can do that by engaging the voters who never turn up at elections. But they will turn up if they have something to vote for. Address their issues.

"Yes we can", remember?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
38. He's worked respectfully with Dems for decades, never dissed them,
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 04:48 AM
Dec 2015

always voting and caucusing with them.

I don't understand where you're coming from. It doesn't make sense -- unless you know nothing about Bernie Sanders.

beltanefauve

(1,784 posts)
19. 55 year old
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:15 AM
Dec 2015

White female with a 60 year old African American husband. Neither of us trust her! Our Thanksgiving dinner had 14 guests, mostly AAs,and all for Bernie.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
28. The I will never vote for him/her factor will decide this election
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:39 AM
Dec 2015

That does not bode well for Hillary and the Democratic Party if she leads the ticket.

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
39. Citing demographics is not age-bashing.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 04:50 AM
Dec 2015

And it's not nice to call people "idiots" when they're respectful toward you.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
42. Nobody appears ready to seriously challenge Clinton.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:50 AM
Dec 2015

To me, it appears that Clinton's chances of winning the nomination are around 80%, and the demographics say that the Republicans' chances of winning the White House are a mere 15 to 20%. In all likelihood, Clinton will be elected President.

These "trustworthiness" numbers are of little concern to me.

-Laelth

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
68. If that happens
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:12 PM
Dec 2015

we are all screwed.if you were disappointed with obama you haven't seen anything yet.

if she is nominee i just don't care who wins.things will never change as long as liberals and progressives keep with the voting out of fear of republicans for phonys like clinton who are neoliberals and say you have no choice but to vote for me meanwhile i continue to work against liberals and progressives.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
83. Nope.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:30 PM
Dec 2015

I was in my 20s when she was First Lady and I lived one state over when she was FL of Ark. I've known her my entire adult life and I don't trust a thing she says.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
54. 73 percent of Democrats say she is honest and trustworthy in that poll
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:13 AM
Dec 2015

For Sanders, it's 78 percent of Democrats. Not a particularly significant difference.

The poll also asks about leadership qualities:

91 percent of Democrats say that Hillary has strong leadership qualities. For Sanders, it's 68 percent of Democrats.

In terms of Hillary vs Republicans - she beats all of them in head to head match ups.

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
72. yeah she has great leadership qualitys
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:19 PM
Dec 2015

if your neocon or corporist

Clinton would be disaster.

your forgeting bernie does better vs trump,cruz,and carson.and they both do same vs rubio.and your taking it for granted with her dislike numbers her numbers will stay the same.

She is running ad that is trying to stir woman against men.you clinton supporters should remember that next time you bash bernie bashing wall street.

for those on social safety net clinton would screw us over just as much as republicans.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
75. Sanders and Clinton are both fantastic candidates in my opinion
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:22 PM
Dec 2015

I would be proud to work and vote for either one of them in the general election.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
103. Democrats are 30% of the electorate. You don't win the general election with 30%.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:36 PM
Dec 2015
In terms of Hillary vs Republicans - she beats all of them in head to head match ups.

Those match-ups involve likely voter screens that assume good turnout. Clinton also has a enthusiasm problem - only a small number of Democrats tell pollsters they are very enthusiastic to vote for Clinton.

Very enthusiastic voters drive turnout. A small number of very enthusiastic supporters points to low turnout. Couple that with the high "don't trust" numbers, and it start looking very dangerous for turnout.

But the real danger is it doesn't look like Team Clinton thinks this could even be a problem, much less have any plans to address it.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
106. Democrats + some independents = winning the general election
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:04 PM
Dec 2015

Remember there are really only a few states that will actually matter.

A big percentage of those self-proclaimed independents live in states like Texas, which she could lose 90-10 and it wouldn't make a difference.

I'd be more curious to see what the numbers look like in the swing states than the national ones.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
107. And when you don't get those independents?
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:09 PM
Dec 2015

Democratic-leaning independents are among those with the abysmal "trust" rating in the OP.

I'd be more curious to see what the numbers look like in the swing states than the national ones.

Well, on headline numbers, Clinton is generally doing worse than on national polls. However, "swing state" polling has been pretty thin and infrequent, since many of them have later primaries....and polls for anywhere past IA are going to be moved by IA's results anyway.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
109. That wouldn't be good
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:14 PM
Dec 2015

My hope, though, is that either Hillary or Bernie would be able to do pretty well with the voters going up against the likes of what the Republicans put up. I know it will take a lot of hard work, but I feel pretty confident that we can keep the presidency in the hands of the Democratic party in this upcoming election. The Republican options should be sufficiently disturbing to the general population - especially in the swing states.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
112. "Republicans bad!" does not work.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:04 PM
Dec 2015
My hope, though, is that either Hillary or Bernie would be able to do pretty well with the voters going up against the likes of what the Republicans put up

"Republicans bad" does not work with Democratic-leaning independents. They do not trust the Democratic party, or they'd be Democrats. Also, our 2014 and 2010 campaigns relied heavily on "Republicans bad!", and Democratic-leaning independents didn't' show up.

Again, there's a very big turnout problem looming for 2016, and I don't think Team Clinton even thinks it can happen, much less is developing a plan for it. They seem to be entirely relying on "Who else you gonna vote for?", which is a variation on "Republicans bad!".
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
114. Agreed
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:32 PM
Dec 2015

I think a straightforward comparison between who the Democratic nominee is and who the Republican nominee is will result in most independents breaking to the Democrat - be that person Hillary or Bernie.

I think that either one of them is much more in sync with the majority of the population on the major issues of concern for them than any of the Republican candidates will be.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
116. No, we actually aren't agreed
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:52 PM
Dec 2015
I think a straightforward comparison between who the Democratic nominee is and who the Republican nominee is will result in most independents breaking to the Democrat - be that person Hillary or Bernie.

This is another variation on "Republicans bad!"

Democratic-leaning independents are not making this comparison. Because they never vote for the Republican. They either vote for the Democrat or stay home. They will only be looking at the Democrat when deciding to vote or stay home.

A lot of polling makes the mistake of lumping independents into one blob. They aren't. There's "true independents" who will vote for either party. They're only about 10% of the electorate, utterly uninformed, and will chose almost entirely on a whim.

Republican-leaning independents are to the left of the median Republican. They make up about 20% of the electorate. They will never vote for a Democrat. They will either vote Republican or stay home.

Democratic-leaning independents are to the left of the median Democrat. They make up about 20% of the electorate. They will never vote for a Republican. They will either vote Democratic or stay home.

When polls lump these into a single blob, they average out the groups to look like they're in the center. Just like lumping Democrats and Republicans together would make it look like both parties are in the center.

We need Democratic-leaning independents to turn out, or we lose. They will not look at the Republican. They are not in the party, so they will not vote out of loyalty. They are only looking at the Democratic candidate, and deciding to vote or stay home. "Who else you gonna vote for" or any other variation of "Republican bad!" will not keep them from staying home.

TBF

(32,106 posts)
55. I am a middle-aged female
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:22 AM
Dec 2015

and she is not my favorite, to put it politely.

I believe it is time to move past the Clinton/Bush families. They had their chances.

Time for new faces - even if they are in their 70s. I want to hear what will be done about income inequality and climate change - the 2 biggest issues we are facing.

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

bigtree

(86,006 posts)
61. polls are entertaining enough, but you blew it when you pointed to Trump polling better
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:02 AM
Dec 2015

...on 'trustwortyness.'

The fact that a majority of respondents think Trump is trustworthy says everything about this poll.

Pointing to her appeal among republicans is a loser for me, as well. Who the hell cares what they think?

This is what anti-Hillary supporters are promoting now? Who republicans like among our candidates and how the GOP's leading slickster is polling?

I thought the incessant whining about every slight and criticism of Sanders was the height of inanity. I was wrong. This is far worse.

Hiraeth

(4,805 posts)
62. Talking with a registered Ind. "elderly" woman the other day and she said "Hillary is such a liar."
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:09 AM
Dec 2015

but, the really funny part (to me) is when she went on to say that she liked Carly Fiorina and was thinking of voting for her!

wow.

Houston, we have a most definite image problem !!


SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
63. I don't have much faith in your data analysis...
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:15 AM
Dec 2015

after your thread about Iowa averages last week.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251848660

There, your "analysis" was hugely flawed. Whether that was intentional or unintentional, we can't know.

However, it does speak to the quality of thought that you put into your analysis of polls.

Sid

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
74. who says he can't
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:21 PM
Dec 2015

his support among them has been growing.

Of course i say she has done squt for them.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
77. Way overstated, and based on surveys of all political leanings.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:24 PM
Dec 2015

When you say "No one," you're automatically wrong. Way overgeneralized.

gordyfl

(598 posts)
93. It's an Unusual Election
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 02:20 PM
Dec 2015

It's strange how polls show Hillary is not trusted by a majority, yet polls show her as the leading candidate.

I also can't remember the last time a presidential candidate was the the center of an FBI probe. I think that's a first.

questionseverything

(9,661 posts)
117. the fact that she is being investigated by the fbi should be an end to her campaign
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:53 PM
Dec 2015

we have truly fallen down the rabbit hole

gordyfl

(598 posts)
96. I'm an AARP Card Carrying Member and I Don't Trust Her, Either
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:26 PM
Dec 2015

I used to trust Hillary - back in the 90's.

When she ran for NY Senator she took lots of money from Wall Street.

Later there was that controversy of her flying on private jets provided by Citigroup and Saban Capital.

Then receiving more and more donations from BIG Donors and large corporations.

Then there was all those six-figure speeches.

She answers both "yes" and "no" when asked a question.

Her flip-flops.

One story I read -- She and Bill were planning on a vacation. Hillary commissioned a poll to find out "where" they should go that would be "most endearing to voters".

From what I heard, she took some acting lessons - recommended by Bill.

Oh....the list goes on and on...

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
98. None of the middle aged or older Democrats I know trust her either.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 03:59 PM
Dec 2015

I'm in that category myself and I certainly don't.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
99. The ONLY people who trust Bernie are white, male Archie Bunkers from the midwest and rural northeast
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 04:13 PM
Dec 2015

On my fb page a poll was posted that proves it!

71% owned guns! 4% had investment accounts on Wall Street. 32% played HS football. 51% remember the good old days and they are "sick of Washington"!!!



Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
118. Yeah, I'm sure Archie Bunker types are going to support a guy
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:18 PM
Dec 2015

they would have called "Meathead" in his younger days

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
119. That's what poll analysis shows...
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:45 PM
Dec 2015

of course, all one needs to do is look at the audience at some of the rallies.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
121. You mean, like this rally
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 10:57 PM
Dec 2015


How about this rally?



Maybe this rally?



Or even this rally?



Oh, yeah, lots of "Archie Bunker" types

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
125. And I see lots of "Glorias" and "Michaels" there as well
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:33 PM
Dec 2015

Not to mention lots of "Ediths" and "Jeffersons", too.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
102. Don't know where this information was collected, he gave out information last year he had
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:31 PM
Dec 2015

$350,000 net worth, this year he has $800,000 net worth. He only earns $174,000 a year in Congress. He must have collected a lot of promises in a year. No, dont trust Sanders.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
104. I'm middle-aged and I don't trust her further than I could throw a scalded cat.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 06:39 PM
Dec 2015

Well, that's not quite true. I trust her to be in it for herself, to sell out her erstwhile allies when convenient, and to do what the corporate money tells her needs doing. Does that count?

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
105. This middle aged
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 07:52 PM
Dec 2015

44 year old white guy doesn't trust her. She's a corporate hawk. Tired of the same policies in place since I was a child and Reagan was President. She'll be more of the same.

ismnotwasm

(42,014 posts)
111. Oh No!!
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:19 PM
Dec 2015

No one? Not one youth? Not one millenial Democrat? No one?

And explain why I should care what Rebulicans think of Hillary, OR Sanders for that matter

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
128. But she will win
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 12:01 AM
Dec 2015

This "can't trust her" thing will not prevent her from beating the Republican. Sure, Sanders would be a better candidate in the general election, but Clinton will be good enough. When confronted with a choice between Clinton, whom they don't trust, or the Republican, who is batcrap crazy in addition to being untrustworthy, they will go for Clinton.

Gothmog

(145,631 posts)
130. Snd yet predictwise and Nate Silver still think that Clinton will be the nominee
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:56 AM
Dec 2015

Your attemps at spin are being ignored in the real world. Clinton is only 93% on ptedictwise

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