Bernie Sanders supporters need to get a grip on reality.

[blueinindiana]

I wish we lived in a world where Bernie Sanders could be elected President and a Congress that would implement his plans but that is NEVER, repeat NEVER going to happen. The House is essentially permanently controlled by the GOP until at least the next census, if not longer due to their domination at the state and local levels. If by some miracle the Democrats regained the House and the Senate, the vast majority of Democrats would NEVER implement his plans either. Corporate America has total and complete control of the federal, state and local governments and it’s not going to change if Bernie is elected.

Bernie Sanders would even be more isolated then Obama, his four years in office would be one of executive orders (court fights over it) and vetoes. Zero of the policies he wants to enact would ever come before his desk to sign into law.

I favor strong labor and unions, I favor income equality and justice for the working class but we do not live in that world and we never will again.

Bernie Sanders idea of America is a nice dream but that all it is ever going to be, a dream.

[liberal_at_heart]

1. It was just a dream to the Labor Movement as well. It was just a dream to the Women's

Suffrage Movement as well. It was just a dream to the Civil Rights Movement as well. It was just a dream to the LGBT Rights Movement as well. They did it. We can too. Everything starts with a dream. We have to be willing to put in the hard work of making it a reality, and I am sooooooo ready to put in the work.

[daybranch]

32. I have been waiting 40 years to do this.

We must defeat the oligarchy.

[farleftlib]

63. Bra-vo

Can't be said any better than that. I naively believed a vote for Obama was a vote for real change. Sadly that wasn't so. HRC doesn't even pretend she stands for anything but the status quo. I believe she detests the left wing of the Democratic Party more than she detests republicans.

[reformist2]

66. It's never going to change. The revolution will never happen. Just vote Hillary and settle for less.

A LOT less. Almost nothing, in fact.

[Kalidurga]

2. You can live in fear if you like and keep doing what is safe

I will continue to vote for the best candidate that I share the most values with and I will continue to do what is right even if it's not completely safe.

[840high]

34. I thank you.

[Binkie The Clown]

3. Yet another veiled insult hurled at Bernie supporters.

Are we all delusional, then? Have we lost touch with reality? Are we so misguided that in failing to support "Her Majesty" we are displaying signs of mental illness? Is that what you are implying?

[Kalidurga]

6. It's really not that veiled

[daleanime]

11. No....

It's not.

[haikugal]

12. No it's not...pretty much in our face isn't it?!

[Kalidurga]

16. Yes very much so

With a big helping of scolding as well.

[haikugal]

24. Silly Bernie supporters who believe in the democratic tradition and working toward a better world.

Should have our heads examined....yeah that's the ticket!

[Kalidurga]

65. I can still remember when Democrats used to do that

at least they pretended to really well. Now we have a small faction here that is determined to shame us for doing this. Now where would they get the idea that it's a good idea to do that?

[haikugal]

82. I've even seen posts mocking our distrust of our corporate overlords.

They probably think we're quaint. They often remind me of Republicans the way they like to hippy punch.

Don't forget the '68 democratic convention. Fuck the brick wall.

Greed is good.
War is Peace
Winning is Losing
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

What happened to the Democratic Party?

[Kalidurga]

97. When I say we should have free college

I am accused of wanting unicorns or ponies or some such thing. And waiting for Santa. Seriously aren't we about the only developed nation that doesn't pay for health care and college?

[haikugal]

98. Apparently quality of life issues don't enter their shriveled melons.

[Kalidurga]

99. I think it matters to them and theirs is fine.

[haikugal]

100. Ding, ding, ding....

I've got mine, fuck you!

Yeah.

[Kalidurga]

101. Yep

Just follow the money

[artislife]

4. This is not helpful.

Trash the OP.

[shenmue]

20. Sorry, other people are allowed to have opinions

[Ken Burch]

43. Pissing on the dreams of the young, the poor, and the idealistic is more than "having an opinion".

What possible good comes of telling people to give up?

And how does the author of this type of OP think that this kind of talk is going to persuade anyone to back HRC?

[JonLeibowitz]

5. Even if everything you say is right, Bernie is still the correct choice, because

he is the only one promising a litmus test of repealing Citizens United (one of the problems that dug us deeper down the corporations-own-congress hole) for his Supreme Court nominees.

Since Hillary refuses to do so, Bernie wins.

[okasha]

103. Untrue.

Hillary pledged months ago that she would appoint no justice unless s/he was committed to overturning Citizens United.

[NuclearDem]

7. That'll be about the time I accept my sexiest man alive award from my mansion on Mars.

Also, howdy there fellow Hoosier!

[daleanime]

8. "We don't live in that world".....

As long as you're not willing to fight for it, no we don't.

And if the Democratic Party isn't willing to fight then I'll have to find some place else that is.

[liberal_at_heart]

10. Damn right.

[Karma13612]

56. I know...same here!! Eom

[99th_Monkey]

9. "we do not live in that world and we never will again." <-- why give away the store now?

You've apparently completely given up on ever seeing more income equality or stronger unions.

We HAVE a candidate in this race who's running very strong and definitely has a chance to win
both the primary and the GE, so why completely give up now?

Or am I misreading what you're saying?

[pa28]

13. Yes, plenty of food and wine here in Vichy.

Those Bernie Sanders supporters just need to get a grip on reality.

[elleng]

14. More like, as long as the current Dem ptb remain in control.

With a DIFFERENT DNC leadership, Dems will get their GUTS, and change things in the states, which will then result in changes in congress. Dems NEED changes, via Sanders and/or O'Malley.

[Kalidurga]

17. Now that's the ticket

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Will Hillary get support of congress? If so, how?

[xynthee]

73. Especially since there will be even MORE republicans

in congress if she's the nominee!! The left will be demoralized and the right will be unprecedentedly motivated for the chance to vote against her (and while they're there, might as well vote against all the downticket Dems). This is a total disaster!

[Punkingal]

18. People have power if they have the courage to use it.

We can still make things happen if w are angry enough. I am angry enough to realize we have nothing to lose by trying. Why aren't you?

[DemocraticWing]

19. If the system is rigged to hurt the people, what does that say about the system?

People do not stand for oppression forever. If our political system does not bring about change, there are other alternatives that people will start to consider. I personally believe we should work our butts off to make sure change happens democratically, with a political revolution.

The alternative seems to be appeasement.

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. All resistance is futile-you will be assimilated. All resistance is futile-you will be assimilated

Social-democracy was once a dream in Scandinavia - now it is reality.

The abolition of child labor and the eight hour day was once a dream in America but has been reality for most of our lives.

One thing is for certain - there will be no progress ever made if we only push to get the least we can get while watching the gains of past simply evaporate.

Beginning discussions based on the least one can get is a certain loser strategy. The Sanders campaign is simply not pushing for anything or expressing any goals that are not in the mainstream of modern western democracy.

Some people here need to get a grip on reality.

[draa]

36. Hey now, I loved the Borg.

Or at least one Borg. Jeri Ryan assimilated me pretty quickly.

[highprincipleswork]

22. Your view of reality is one without faith or hope. Refuse to accept that cynicism.

It is true that people have been accepting lies so long, it's hard to believe they might change things around.

But funny thing about the truth. Funny thing about high principles. They resonate with people. They are really the things that made this country great, since the beginning. Somehow, since then, the America Dream has been replaced with dog eat dog, and accepted principles like that.

No, thank you. Take your version of reality and peddle it somewhere else. I'm voting and working for Bernie Sanders till... well, for as long as it takes.

Thanks for your concern. But I do wish you'd join us and create a different world where people can really have something close to what they want. It really is possible, if enough people just get up and work for it, donate for it, volunteer for it, and vote for it.

[truedelphi]

29. What a wonderful response.

It reminded me of a book I had as a four or five yer old that my dad used to read me.

It was in the series of books for little kids called "Golden Books." Usually they were re-tellings of fairy tales. Or simple stories about puppies chasing their tails, kittens strolling through the park or Lassie coming home, etc.

Anyway this one Golden Book was very different. It was about a society in which a king decided that he wanted everyone in the kingdom to have square heads. And of course, people were not happy with having to re-shape their heads, as they knew that having a round head was the way it should be.

But the king was the king and everyone had to have their head re-shaped, from the oldest person in the society to the youngest toddlers. People with such oddly shaped heads looked uncomfortable, and of course, the vise and other machinations that put a head that way were rather unpleasant as well!

But at the end of the book, there was a picture of a couple with their new baby in a pram, and that baby had an old-fashioned good ol' normal round head. And the last line of the book was something like "Even a king cannot undo the way things are meant to be."

And all these Hillary supporters seem to think that people can have their abhorrence for corruption un-done. The big mantra that attempted to re-shape our brains back in 2012 was "The lesser of two evils." But who wants to continue eating a shit sandwich every day for the rest of their life just because voting for the other people might have meant eating two such sandwiches? The only way the corruption will end and things will be set right is to be adamant that this ending of corruption is what we take on right now and what we will work towards and achieve.

Many of us know how our brains are working and how our hearts are feeling, and we will not be stuffed back into the vise and have our natural yearnings re-shaped, especially not so Ms Clinton can garner another gazillion bucks for the Clinton Foundation when she leaves office eight years later.

[highprincipleswork]

39. Thank you for that story and for that feeling.

I am so glad that we have feelings like this on our side. Because, in the end, it's those kind of things that count.

That's why I will continue to believe in Bernie till...well, I don't see it ending.

That's why I will continue to fight for what I think is right and against what I feel is wrong.

Thanks.

[Mbrow]

53. Between the two of you

You have put it so well, also people have to realize that Bernie will not sit still when he is elected. He will use that bully pulpit to call out and point out the lies and nonsense on all sides and maybe people will finally wake up.

[Karma13612]

59. I can already see people engaging with each dust-up that Bernie's campaign

Faces. Petitions, money bombs, social media.

We are engaged and if we can make it a habit we can continue to be heard throughout his presidency.

[highprincipleswork]

85. Have you noticed a change of spirit recently? We will not be denied. Go Bernie Go. Song inside.

Always have loved this song.

"We've got to get together sooner or later". Guess it's kind of "later", but if we do it now, NOT TOO LATE!

Something's in the air. And that's the sound of positive change that we really can believe in.

Go Bernie go.

And same to all who support him and the Democratic Party.

[Karma13612]

88. yes I have. I think there is more optimism about Sanders campaign chances. He is showing

that his is not a pushover, yet still remains a gentleman. And he has integrity.

yes, positive change is here, and we believe.

[truedelphi]

89. The fact that the Powers that Be realize how he will indeed use the bully

Pulpit is exactly why the News Media Executives have been told to not mention him too often.

CIA and FBI connection to news media is awesome and overwhelming.

[Fearless]

23. Complete bull.

[neverforget]

25. "Trying is the first step towards failure"

[haikugal]

26. .

War is Peace
Winning is Losing
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

[truedelphi]

27. The problem with your statements, blueinIND, is they ignore the realities about the Presidency.

Eighty percent of a President's power is not at all related to whether he or she does or doesn't get along with Congress.

Yes, Obama was isolated in certain ways from Congress, but the main things he did that I will never ever forgive him for were these two things - his Monsanto Appointments, including Kagan and Sottomayor, to the United States Supreme Court, and his handing the country over to the Big Financial People.

All of this was done through an activity that you failed to even mention in your OP.

And that activity is called making appointments.

He appointed rat bastard Tim Geithner to head up the US Treasury, when lil Timmy should have been wearing an orange jumpsuit and going to jail for RICO violations that were undertaken while he headed the New York Federal Reserve. Later on Obama re-appointed Bernanke. He let the two of them allow various egregious policies to occur that forced 11 million people out of their homes.

And not only were these 11 million foreclosures occurring, but the banks that re-possessed the houses then either outright bulldozed these homes in some places, or else held them off the market, so in many cases rental rates are at an all time high.

How can it be that right now people are paying more than ever to rent, when just a few years ago the housing market had crashed? How did that happen?

And how is it that right now a huge economic time bomb is set to explode? The same sort of derivatives that caused the housing market to collapse the economy are now set in motion downward-collapse style, as the current day derivatives are all predicated on oil prices being high and oil prices are tumbling.

Anyway a lot of us are tired of the mantra that we have to eat one shit sandwich a day as otherwise we will be eating two. Most people I know are not willing to vote for the lesser of two evils any more. We simply cannot stomach it!

People are sick and tired of the corruption that has overtaken the leadership positions of both major parties.

Speaking of not stomaching this or that, I can no longer eat wheat, due to the types of mold and fungal material that grow on the RoundUp sprayed wheat grown in this country. On account of Obama, Monsanto has gone unchecked for the past seven years. And even if Sanders gets in, there might not be a thing he can do about Monsanto destroying our food supply. Pollen is out there like vermin released from Pandora's box, and legislation enacted next year or the following year cannot return the pollen back from where it came.

[Live and Learn]

28. Well, certainly not with that attitude. Luckily, some of us don't give up so easily.

And we have more joining the cause daily.

Feeling the Bern and Keeping the Dream alive!!

[Juicy_Bellows]

30. Fuck it. I'll have a diet Coke.

If that's how you really feel why vote at all? Why are you here? There are a lot of excellent books, movies, tv shows and video games to enjoy. Take up photography or pottery, politics might not be your bag. You haven't the heart for it.

Cheers.

[BlueCaliDem]

31. Don't hold your breath. eom

[global1]

33. Bernie Is Calling For A "Political Revolution".....

If the People back him in this "Political Revolution" he WILL get things done.

[840high]

35. =x100+

[Historic NY]

55. Doesn't look like he's making much traction with the "revolution thingy"...

he's a party of one and he can't help himself. He's got two congressional endorsements, how does he expect to jamb legislation through?

[draa]

37. You'll never succeed if you don't try.

And I'd rather try.

[silvershadow]

38. #feelthebern nt.

[Ken Burch]

40. By that logic, it's pointless to try and elect any Democrat at all.

If there is no hope of ever defeating corporate power, there is also no hope of achieving any further progressive gains. Corporate power won't allow any meaningful change to be brought in by anyone, including HRC.

And let's face it, there isn't anything short of what Bernie calls for that is even worth trying to do.

Your OP basically says "we should all slash our wrists", because there is no hope at all if we accept your premise.

[Katashi_itto]

41. They said the same of Gandhi, MLK etc. We will have our Democracy back

one way or another.

[jfern]

42. Bernie got more amendments than anyone else passed in the 1995-2006

Republican controlled House. Bernie knows how to get shit done.

[Ino]

44. Your whole argument could be applied to HRC as well.

Do you think the GOP Congress will take time out from their endless Clinton investigations to enact her policies?

They are already planning to impeach her!

That is, if she wins the GE. Which I doubt.

[Katashi_itto]

45. If Hillary is Inevitable why worry about convincing us?

[bowens43]

46. Hillary supporters need to get a grip on reality

Hillary will never be president. If she was elected I see no reason to think we would be better off with her than with cruz or trump. IMO she is a pathological liar who will do anything to further her own interests including work with the republicans to destroy what is left of the social safety nets. No thanks.

[840high]

104. Amen.

[newfie11]

47. You never know until you try

I damn sure am not going to give up and vote for more of the same.
The midterms will come and hopefully enough people will get off their ass and vote Dems in.

[Ken Burch]

48. A few quotes that put it better than I could:

[Locrian]

49. +1. Better a dream than a nightmare. n/t

[DrDan]

61. “The hands that help are better far than lips that pray.” ― Robert G. Ingersoll

[Gloria]

80. Nader...became a nightmare...

The GOP has advanced it's vote repression machine, is in control of a load of state houses, and yet we have to hear crap here at DU from people who are so far to the left the sound like the right wing with their Hillary Hate.

I'm a strong progressive but see reality...change is incremental....but if we get a GOP shit in there, with the Supreme Court in their hands...oh, the change might not be so incremental...

Like Citizens United? Slam away at Clinton...want women to be sent to the dark ages, nationwide, as it is already happening in TX?
Want healthcare, as crappy as it, completely sent backwards?

It's time to toughen up and get out of the clouds.

I am detesting the far left as much as I detest the far right because the damage to out every day existence will be harsh if we can't pull off the general election even with the "EVIL" Clinton..

Time to put on your big boy/big girl pants and realize that the enemy is the GOP, not Clinton.

[haikugal]

83. Whoa...

It's time to toughen up and get out of the clouds.

I am detesting the far left as much as I detest the far right because the damage to out every day existence will be harsh if we can't pull off the general election even with the "EVIL" Clinton..

Time to put on your big boy/big girl pants and realize that the enemy is the GOP, not Clinton.

Sarah, is that you??

[Ken Burch]

93. Bernie isn't Nader.

And the lesson of that wasn't that there shouldn't be a progressive primary opponent to the centrist establishment candidate, OR that the party can't challenge the right-wing narrative UNTIL the Supreme Court changes.

[SecularMotion]

50. K & R

[pengu]

51. The primary is a choice between Dream and Nightmare

I know which I'm voting for.

[Karma13612]

57. Brilliant!! +1000 to the tenth power . Eom

[NCTraveler]

52. K&R nt

[Karma13612]

54. Give it a rest.

I hope you realize Bernie's campaign and his supporters eat your words for breakfast, to sustain them through their day of fighting to regain a country for the 99%.

Yummy with maple syrup and strong cuppa joe.

[Funtatlaguy]

58. A little fatalistic

Never is a long time.
People like Bernie, and the Green Party's Jill Stein, show the American people what is possible if they could just fully open their minds and eyes to what REAL change would look like.
Apathy is always the progressive, populist candidates biggest enemy.
I applaud the dreamers.
Don't give up. State your case. You never know who might be listening.

[Android3.14]

60. You can do better, blueindiana

Be brave enough to stand up for your convictions. Inform yourself of the fact the Bernie has as good or even better chances in the general than Hillary.

A vote for Bernie in the primaries is where the smart money goes.

[Snotcicles]

64. I finally found the argument to sway me away from voting for Bernie Sanders. Who knew I would

find it posted in a discussion group that stays riddled with nearly identical posts placed in the wee hours of the morning by yet another defeatist who posts opinions as absolutes but than runs off to avoid rebuttal.

Antonio Porchia: Convince me, but without convictions. Convictions no longer convince me.

[reformist2]

67. Is this really the view of Hillary supporters??? Because it's an inherently sad & defeatist view.

I'm not sure I could ever be a part of that. I'd rather dream and advocate real change - and possibly lose, instead of compromising my whole life and figuring out what little scraps I could get by begging from the people who run things. No thanks to that!

[Jarqui]

68. If MLK had had your attitude, I'm not sure we would have ever heard of him

Sure as heck are not going to get any closer to Sanders policies sitting on our hands.

If Bernie gets to the general election, he's got a really good shot of winning.

If he can win Iowa and New Hampshire (where he's leading), he's got a good shot in this primary.

Maybe all we get are some good Supreme Court nominees - that's probably the worst case.

We can engage in this fight to overturn gerrymandering
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/29/1394141/-Republicans-rigged-the-House-through-gerrymandering-Democrats-can-fight-back-at-the-ballot-box

Upcoming demographics are going to hit the GOP like a tidal wave - probably sooner than you think. They're going to lose Texas in the not too distant future and then, this version of the GOP will NEVER regain the White House. It's a dead end for that party as we know it.

Suck it up. Hang in there. Don't give up on your dreams.

[mmonk]

69. The corporate state thanks you.

[Lizzie Poppet]

70. It's precisely BECAUSE I have a grip on reality that I support Bernie.

No more business-as-usual corporatists...from either party.

I favor strong labor and unions, I favor income equality and justice for the working class but we do not live in that world and we never will again.

If that's truly the case, then it's time to tear it all down and start over...by whatever means necessary.

[raouldukelives]

71. Like human slavery, it only ends when good people decide it does, individually.

One can wish all they want. But if one is a slave owner, one invests in the shipping, they are free from sincerity.

There are those invested in nothing changing and those laboring for change.

[yardwork]

72. This is the thing.

[TransitJohn]

74. Well, at least we know you won't fight for what you believe in.

I favor strong labor and unions, I favor income equality and justice for the working class but we do not live in that world and we never will again.

Bernie Sanders idea of America is a nice dream but that all it is ever going to be, a dream.

Pretty much says it all.

[Warren Stupidity]

75. So your argument boils down to "we need a president that will capitulate to the right".

OK. I guess that is why Clinton is your candidate?

[dogknob]

76. Pathetic. Like Hillary when she said "The revolution never came." Pathetic.

"That's just the way things are..." its endless variations and use as a debate tactic, belong in a museum next to the confederate flag.

[Scootaloo]

77. You might as well just go ahead and vote Republican, then. Bye.

[Motown_Johnny]

78. Proof that Clinton supporters are the ones who can't grasp reality.

One of the responses to your OP was a simple F**k Off. I was on that jury, as was at least one Clinton supporter. That Clinton supporter assumed that the post would not be hidden and even called this site Bernieunderground.com. Well, the vote was 7-0 to hide.

Clinton supporters are the ones who just can't grasp reality.





Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Dec 23, 2015, 01:51 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Fuck off
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=940758

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

We have to draw the line somewhere. Please hide this over-the-top reply.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Dec 23, 2015, 02:29 PM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with alerter. No excuse for this type of post on DU.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The OP is wrong, but this response is much worse. When F**k off is all you have to say, it is best to remain silent.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Given the general tone of things here at BernieUnderground this will probably stand but I'm voting to Hide because we should be better than this sort of thing.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I support Bernie Sanders, but I also support civility. The F bomb on a member however misguided that member is, is just plain wrong, and also against the ToS here. I don't vote any hides but I have no problem with this one.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Inside voice, OP...inside voice!
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: You just can't say that here.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.






P.S. We are ~80% Bernie Supporters on this site. We are better than this sort of thing.

[PowerToThePeople]

79. If you are correct

Then I will need to hastily emigrate, burn my password, and watch the self destruction occur from a safe location.

[LWolf]

81. Another attack on Sanders supporters. Check. nt

[ladjf]

84. No thanks for the arrogant lecture. nt

[99Forever]

86. Sorry to see that you are ready to surrender....

....without even trying.

Sanders supporters are made of better stuff.

[TheFarseer]

87. your first sentence is BS

If you wished for that you would be trying to make it happen instead of shitting on it.

[dana_b]

90. wow, if I thought like you, I'd never vote or even try

let's just give in and give our paychecks over to the corporations, turn our eyes away and fall into blissful Idiocracy.

I'll admit that I am jaded and have lost a lot of fire about politics over the years. But I have to believe that things can change or else I wouldn't be here. I mean, I could just watch Survivor, talk about the next iPhone and go have a Starbucks with a friend. That would be a lot less daunting than thinking about HOW to change the state of our political system.

[Eric J in MN]

91. Federal regulators interpret laws which have already passed.

I want a President Bernie Sanders appointing people to the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Labor Relations Board, etc.

[Armstead]

92. Get real. We will always be a British colony

It would be wonderful if we could become an independent nation. But that'll never happen and get real.

[Fawke Em]

94. Enie Anders

In other words:
B....S....

[aikoaiko]

95. I reject your premise.

[dinkytron]

96. I will not get a grip on reality!!!!

[jberryhill]

102. First we have to pry reality away from insane people

And then, yes, grasp hold of it very firmly.