If you think Bernie can win the general election

[CajunBlazer]

Folks posting on this board proudly point to polls showing Bernie beating Trump in General Election by margins greater than Hillary, but they are forgetting one political truism.

The longer a person is politics, generally the higher their negatives. Clinton has been in the Republican cross hairs for years. She has already weathered the worst they could throw at her so she has little downside. Bernie Sanders, not so much

Unfortunately, if he becomes the nominee Sanders will receive a lot more attention from the press, and especially from the Republicans and their mudslinging followers. The attacks on Sanders will be brutal. Let me state clearly that I don't think any of this will be fair, put politics is a brutal game. I can see the Republicans, and especially their PACS put together by Koch brothers and others of that ilk, painting the self described socialist as far worst. He will be described as a communist who adopted his current political stances from reading the writings of Marks, Lenin and Trotsky. Such attacks will stick better than you think.

All you have to do is used google, to see what is coming Sander's way:

Bernie Sanders Lived Off Unemployment, Couldn't Get a Non-Government Job Bernie Sanders can only exist when being paid by taxpayers.

Excerpt: "We're told that "He read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky." Like them, he wasn't big on working. Marx lived off Engels. Sanders lived off Uncle Sam." and it gets worse.

Even a relatively complementary article in Politico: Bernie Sanders Has a Secret
contains the phrase: "He read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky"

No I am not implying that just because someone is well read that he is communist,far from it, but I won't be the one painting the picture. It could be very nasty:

From an article: THE REAL BERNIE SANDERS
"Far from being an "outsider", Sanders is a dyed-in-the-wool pro-Fed and pro-Israel Marxist from Ben & Jerry's commie-pinko-hippie Vermont. Sander's fake "populism" is that of the Jewish rabble-rouser on a soap box, a la Leon Trotsky (Russia), Emma Goldman (United States), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany) and Bela Kun (Hungary)."

You can dismiss this kind of horrific rhetoric as ridiculous if you choose. but do you think that the Kock brothers are above using it.

Again, I am not writing this to smear Bernie - I believe non of it - I am just pointing out the political sewage which will be directed at Sanders if he wins the nomination.

[Agschmid]

1. This is crap.

Delete it.

[CajunBlazer]

5. It is crap - but unfortunatly politics is often ugly

Best get ready - if Bernie wins the nomination, it's coming.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Your links are even worse toward Hillary, who is called 'Killery' in your linked article.

One assumes that would also be coming if she wins because as you have graciously pointed out to us they are already doing that to her and to Bernie.

Why you would post such bigoted, right wing sites which use vile slurs about Democrats including your own candidate is hard to fathom. Seems to be a habit on the Hillary side. It's not a good habit.

[KittyWampus]

60. Yes, it would. But the difference is that Hillary has withstood DECADES of that crap

whilst Sanders has never had to deal with it. Ever.

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

76. Hillary has been in only 3 elections

2 of which were confined to a solid blue state, and one of which she lost at the national level.

[CajunBlazer]

91. She has gone through a number of elections with Bill

and was the subject of many Republican attacks herself while she resided in the white house. That doesn't even consider the fact that the Republicans have been trying to tear her down from the moment it became clear that she might run for President again. Thirteen Congressional investigations consisting of 32 Congressional hearings over a three year period costing over $20 Million of taxpayer money. And that doesn't include the hundreds of appearances of Republican politicians cable news channels saying anything and everything they could think of the take Hillary down.

A guide to GOP's Benghazi obsession

If the GOP had gone after Bernie Sanders with that kind of vengeance he would be just a oily sport on the GOP freeway.

They haven't gone after Bernie yet because they don't view him as a viable threat. And if you haven't noticed, given how the GOP operates, that is an insult to Bernie.

[artislife]

97. She has gone through a number of elections with Bill.

Are you serious! ?!

If she had been running , you believe she would have won the elections he won?


Is that really reality based?

[CajunBlazer]

98. After Bernie has been subject to the kind of scrutiny....

..... that Hillary has been since she entered the White House for the first time, we can talk. Obviously you are too young to remember how the Republicans tried to pin her to the wall when she chaired the committee which tried to establish a single payer medical insurance system during Bill's first term.

Obviously you skipped over part of my posts where I talked about the three years she endured continuous Republican attacks.

Here is the problem with posters you - you are disingenuous. By that I mean you continually use one of the most underhanded tactics possible to try to win arguments. People like you scan a post for the weakest points, ignore all of the other points which you can't counter, and then attack the weakest point and act like you have won the battle. You may think that's cool, but most people understand that you just aren't up to the task of having an adult discussion.

I'm sorry, but you really aren't a worthy opponent.

See ya

[artislife]

103. This is just nonsense

Bernie has won his elections, not his wife's not his child's. HIS.

The problem with Hillary is that if you asked her to draw a stick figure, she wouldn't be able to draw a straight line. She and Bill, too, bring everything on themselves. Michelle Obama has faced some harsh scrutiny over the last 7 years but she doesn't play victim.....ever.

I am disingenuous? Take a look at your OPs...and substitute the names. You would see how incredibly weak your OPS are.

You are a straw man.

[byyiminy]

114. Do you see Michelle planning to move to a blue state with an available seat as a Senator....

...you know the rest of the story.

I certainly don't see it.

I think President and Mrs. Obama will have a nice quiet retirement with Obama hitting the circuits.

[artislife]

115. She is not going to be a politician.

No way.

[jaycrewz]

106. Hillary shill shows its colors

You said in your OP that you weren't trying to smear or naysay Bernie...but all of your follow up posts make it clear that was your true intention.

And yet you call others disingenuous? Some of the behavior from Hillary supporters reeks of the BS we non-Hillary supporters dealt with in 2008. Its very off putting...and combined with the stuff the DNC is doing....youre not making people want to vote for her if she wins the Democratic nomination.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. Well that's a bit much considering she's not the President now because she lost her one and only

national election. She's only been in three. And that's really beside the point. The OP has dragged racist attacks on Bernie, Hillary and Obama here in order to demonstrate that unhinged right wing websites will not be kind to Bernie? Is that a point that needs to be made? No, it is not. And showing that filth has nothing to do with asserting Hillary's ability to deal with such crap it just brings links to some right wing tirade against both Hillary and Bernie. The OP, whom I addressed, did not make this point you are now making on his dubious behalf.
So I'd still like an answer to my first post from the OP.

[Politicalboi]

102. Because Sanders is NOT corrupt

HilLiary has more baggage coming.

[NCTraveler]

6. We have a candidate who has not been vetted on the national stage.

His supporters have claimed over and over again that conservatives will vote for him. This isn't crap. I also wish I hadn't deleted the op you made the same comment to me on. This is absolutely fair game considering the rhetoric I mention above.

[bunnies]

46. Referring to Hillary as "Killary Rotten Clintscum" isnt crap?

Did you check those links at all?

[KittyWampus]

61. Yes it is, but she and her husband have fought for decades and won.

Sanders? Not.

[roguevalley]

86. I do believe she lost in 2008 running a rather regrettable compaign. Just saying.

As for the attacks, he will survive. Remember, he has always been a 'socialist' in this half assed country. Even on this board, its thrown at him like an epithet. If a person can survive, thrive and get this far as a 'commie' then the possibility of falling before the ill will of ass hats is not as strong as some might think.

[libdem4life]

62. That's disgusting. I'm a Bernie supporter but this is over the top against Hillary.

[bunnies]

64. Totally.

I wonder what the OP is trying to do here exactly. Other than stir shit I mean. That much is obvious.

[libdem4life]

66. I think you pretty much called it.

[randys1]

52. Here is the problem. Hillary is under attack all the time, here at DU and everywhere in USA

There has been an organized group of wealthy rightwingers who have orchestrated attacks since the day Bill beat Bush, and many are directed specifically at Hillary.

She is attacked here at DU all day long, hundreds of times EACH DAY, and everywhere else.

Hundreds of millions have been spent to discredit her.

Yet, she still is looking pretty good numbers wise.

NOTHING has been spent by righty to attack Bernie, yet. Or next to nothing.

When they spend $900,000,000.00 in TV ads portraying him as a commie socialist hippie druggie, and they will, we dont know what will happen, this is the issue that SMART, MATURE political observers will worry about.

If you are a BIG PICTURE person you will ONLY care about which of our candidates can win...And this unknown about Bernie is an important factor in that calculation.

And I know you agree, I wish more here understood it.

[JonLeibowitz]

54. I thought you supported Bernie? Have you shifted your opinions on the race to some extent?

I am curious.

[randys1]

57. Who I support has nothing to do with what you just read.

I support getting a Dem in the WH, if it is shown to me at some point Hillary has a better chance of winning than Bernie, then I will support Hillary.

My preference is Bernie, but this is only a preference, my GOAL is keeping the vicious, racist, Woman hating, Black hating, Gay hating, environment hating teaparty and GOP as far from the WH and SC as possible.

To that end I do as much as I can including

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

[tecelote]

53. But he knows how to win.

[randys1]

55. And it helps that apparently many on the right will vote for him if Trump isnt

in the race, is what I am hearing

[Jim Lane]

70. I agree, but the graphic is wrong about Hillary.

She's won two elections -- to the Senate in 2000 and then re-election in 2006.

[angrychair]

67. You DUrec anti-Semitic hste speech

We hammer people here all day long for linking and using pro-teapublican sites to make their point all the time. This is not a pro-teapublican site, it is a anti-Semitic hate site.

Being "OK" with anti-Semitic, holocaust denying hate speech websites to make your point against a Jewish man who lost loved ones to Nazi death camps says as much about you as it does the poster.

[KittyWampus]

58. The Republican Slime Machine may be crap but it exists.

Do you dispute that?

[Bluenorthwest]

81. The OP promotes it. Links to it without identification, encouaging his readers to go to that site.

It's not news to anyone that Republicans have slime merchants, not news at all. To link to racist, antisemitic anti Democratic sites without labeling them as such is rude. I read one paragraph, trashed Hillary, Bernie, made a racist insult or two at Obama. That is some extreme shit, and any point being made with it needs to be strong and well made to excuse such links and those links need to be marked as not safe for family, work or human consumption if the Hillary crowd really needs to use such links.
That's all. I'm disgusted.

[roguevalley]

85. I agree, Agschmid. Political sewage covers everyone if we let it. Frankly,

this says simply don't vote for Bernie because he not only lived a life like mine with work insecurity and got a good job that happened to be government. That he never profited off it is irrelevant. He has live MY LIFE. I will only be more steadfast in my support. Even those who support Hillary deserve better than this stuff. The climate of our political discourse can bet set by us if we reject or accept this supposed reality. I reject it.

[Matariki]

95. +1

Thanks Agschmid.

[daleanime]

2. So you rather give up....

because the other side 'might' put up a fight?

[artislife]

3. Thank you so much for posting this here

We weren't aware that politics is brutal.


We just thought it was here on this board.


Just funning.


Really, this was an eye opener.

Just one, though

[JonLeibowitz]

4. Yes, we should be careful not to nominate Sanders because he reads.

Even a relatively complementary article in Politico: Bernie Sanders Has a Secret
contains the phrase: "He read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky"

He read them (as did every properly educated young American)! Books! With words!

[CajunBlazer]

9. Agreed, but you and I won't be the one paiinting the ugly picture

[Scootaloo]

15. Uh... you ARE the one doing that.

See post #0

[Scootaloo]

7. Oh look, another Clinton supporter posting links to another antisemitic hate site

I'll give you the benefit of the oubt, CajunBlazer - did you happen to peruse any further than the one article on "tomatobubble"?

[CajunBlazer]

14. I scanned it, It wasn't something I wanted to dwell on

I just did a google search and found what I thought I would find. (Where is that vomit "smily" when you need it.)

[Scootaloo]

16. Well, if that's what the Reoublicans are gonna go with, we got no worries.

"I have in my hand, a document exposing the REAL Bernie Sanders, from a website I found that says Hitler was a peacemaker and the red Jews attacked Germany!"

Yeah, I ain't worried.

[hobbit709]

8. Another day but the same old caca de toro.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. A politician with baggage. Go figure.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. Fail

eom

[Betty Karlson]

12. When Sanders was first up for re-election, his Republican opponent Fred Tuttle

ENDORSED him. That is the amount of cross-over appeal he has. No amount of smears will undo that.

[pengu]

13. So your alternative is to go into the fetal position?

No thanks. I'll continue to fight for the best option (by a mile).

[Scuba]

17. Holy crap, that's the stupidest OP I've read all week, and this has been a week for stupid OPs.

[yeoman6987]

18. In a way I would like the nomination to be Bernie vs Cruz or Bernie vs trump

The reason is that I'd like to know once and for all which direction Americans want the country to go. Whoever wins, the other side can shut up and stop saying the country is going one direction or the other. It would be a great test for this country.

[Kingofalldems]

27. So if Trump wins Democrats should shut up?

[Bluenorthwest]

19. Why are you posting these vile, right wing links without naming them?

Here's the fist thing I read on 'The Real Bernie Sanders' link you gave: "Whether by accident or by design, Bernie Mania will likely help Killary Rotten Clinscum's campaign by making her seem like a "moderate" in comparison."

The author of the second right wing screed is described this way: "Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam."
Freedom Center is David Horowitz' outfit.

Why are you dragging that level of rhetoric here? Horrible slurs aimed at Bernie and Hillary by your sources.

[bluedigger]

20. This is a pointless OP.

The opposition will be fierce and ruthless, regardless of who runs on the Democratic ticket. I don't know why anyone would choose to wallow in the mire and start spreading the smears at this time.

[CajunBlazer]

37. Yet you validate the importance of the post by replying to it

[Bluenorthwest]

59. As you validate a putrid Democrat hating antisemitic website by re-posting it.

You really, really need to mark such filth clearly in your links, you present those links as if they are in fact valid sources. You fail to name them.

This is really, really nasty stuff you linked to. By choice. Nasty to Hillary, nasty to Bernie, and just plain nasty.

[CajunBlazer]

71. I went out of my way label the sources as lies

The Koch brothers woun't bother.

[Bluenorthwest]

88. Incorrect, you went out of your way to label one as Politico and the other as 'an article' without

citation and a blind link. Your insinuation was that the second article was also from Politico or a site of similar standing, instead your link was to a racist and antisemitic website that calls Hillary 'Killery Rotten Clinscum' and our President 'Obongo' while labeling the entire Party as 'Demoncraps'. That's nothing like Politico and you intentionally used the one to promote the other.

You took it upon yourself to link to that attack on Hillary, Obama, Bernie, Democrats in the midwest, Democrats in general. You did not label it as unfit for work, nor for family nor as being more extreme than the named site Politico. You equate the two.

Horrible. You are today's Hillary Clinton Poster Child, representing what you represent as only you can represent it. Good for you.

[CajunBlazer]

94. To tell the truth I just got tired of the stupid posts that insinuated that Bernie...

....was made out of Teflon, but I didn't plan on making the education of those posters my life's work. So I simply Googled "Bernie Sanders read Trotsky" (which I had read on Politico that he had) and simply put links to the first sites that said the kind of nasty stuff the Republicans have used to "swift boat" other candidates in the past!

If you think that the Republican trash machine will not use this kind of filth, you are a political novice who is due for a rude awakening.

If this is all an eye opener for you, you should thank me. If it isn't, don't act all shocked and indignant.

[Bluenorthwest]

104. That's no excuse for linking to that sewer, and it's not an eye opener save for the light it casts

on your character and that of those joining you in treating this as a legitimate tactic, posting from right wing hate sites. I'm gay. I am aware of hate groups and unlike you I do not take them lightly. You are promoting a hate site. You are reckless. This is toxic behavior. I have no respect for it at all. That site uses racist attacks against President Obama and horrible characterizations of Hillary as well, on the very page you linked to so eagerly. In a rush to insult Bernie you quote racists hating on the President.

[LWolf]

21. Like Clinton wouldn't be attacked and smeared.

Clinton is divisive, and engenders hate from the right. That's why Sanders has a greater chance of winning the GE: he brings in all kinds of people, left and right, from the outside to join the Democratic Party in electing the nominee.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. The link the OP offers goes to an article that calls her 'Killery' among other things.

It's the 'Real Bernie Sanders' link. It is easily as abusive to Clinton as it is to Sanders.

[LWolf]

31. And we'll see that in the GE,

regardless of which one wins our nomination.

[LiberalAndProud]

22. Are you simply ignoring that mud will be slung, regardless of the candidate?

Your argument that he is unelectable because he has baggage goes double on Hillary.

[angrychair]

24. Red scare Red scare

Run for your lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is stereotypical "concern trolling":
A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll

[Bjorn Against]

25. So now we are having crap from the right-wing rag Front Page Magazine posted

If the best they can come up with is that he lived on unemployment for a short time in the 1970's they got nothing. Millions of Americans have been on unemployment and despite what the right-wing rag you cite says there is no shame in that.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Linking to bigoted hate sites that attack all Democrats and minorities is getting to be a habit with

some on DU, antisemitic sites getting extra promotion it seems. These links are just not appropriate for DU and no decent person should be promoting them or helping to spread that hate. I strongly object and call upon the many decent Hillary supporters to start addressing the few who are not decent. Read those links, Hillary is called vile names there too.

Big thumbs down to the OP and all who endorse it.

[BeyondGeography]

29. It would be a GOP/MSM stupidstorm, his short fuse would ignite and that would be that

He would do better than Goldwater is about the best I can say.

[Punkingal]

38. Bullshit!

What short fuse?

[earthside]

30. Bring it on.

For myself, I am content to see the potential problems with a Sanders nomination.

Unlike so many of the Hillarians here, I am interested in learning about the drawbacks and shortcomings of all the Democratic candidates ... because forewarned is forearmed.

I think the flaws of a Hillary Clinton nomination are far, far more problematic than those for Sanders.

Hillary Clinton is old hat, old ideas, status quo, center-right, Clintonesque, scandal prone ... she tends to get arrogant and elitist, she is a poor campaigner, etc.

I see a Sanders general election run for the presidency as populist, progressive, and appealing to the working and middle class Americans is a way we haven't seen since FDR -- despite Sanders's shortcomings.

No candidate is perfect, but some are less flawed than others. Hillary Clinton is a divisive, polarizing candidate; lots of Americans will vote against their own self interest just to keep her out of the White House. Sanders would change the battlefield for the 2016 election and put into play independents and frustrated, economically stressed Republicans.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

99. Oh yes! Bernie is a seasoned polititcian

not a weather-vane

[Jarqui]

32. They did this with Obama as well

"palling around with terrorists", "he's a Muslim", "he was born in Kenya - he's not an American"

And some of it stuck. To this day, we see polls where a strangely high number of Republicans believe he is a Muslim Kenyan who likes terrorists.

The thing is, it was not broadly accepted because it wasn't true.

Quinnipac poll has had Hillary at 59-60% of Americans don't trust her. Go to Youtube and search "Hillary" with "lies" or "lying" or "liar". The problem with that stuff is that it's Hillary's own words making the case that Hillary is a liar/flip-flopper. So it resonates more with voters. Koch money can probably drive that untrustworthy number to 70% when they've pummeled Americans with the Youtube videos on lying - because there is a much more plausible case easily made.

They'll attempt to make Bernie out as a commie. No question. But that's like the Obama allegations. Some tin hats, like the Birthers or those who believe Obama is a Muslim will buy it but few others.

[treestar]

33. You are right

It amazes me how people seem to think more debates and more exposure will automatically mean Bernie will gain. They have no concept that it could lose him support as well as gain it. Or that they risk Hillary gaining even more. They just seem blind to that possibility. That's why they scapegoat DWS without realizing she could be helping him as well by doing her allegedly nefarious deeds.

[Punkingal]

40. She is not helping him. Exposure is what helps him.

When he speaks, people realize he is authentic.

[treestar]

41. Like I said you are entirely one sided

and blind to the idea that some people who get that exposure may not like him.

If you're talking about people who aren't exposed to him yet, they are not entirely like you and will not necessarily have the same reaction.

[Punkingal]

44. Of course, everyone won't like him.

Neither are people necessarily going to have a "come to Jesus" moment and fall in love with Hillary.

[kacekwl]

34. It may be tough but

I believe Bernie and team can handle it with great success.

[CrispyQ]

35. What they throw at HRC will be much worse.

But she will have PAC money to defend & attack. I don't know how Bernie wins without PAC money.

[angrychair]

39. People power. nt

[antigop]

50. oh, good lord. nt

[CrispyQ]

72. Thanks for your insightful response.

[99Forever]

36. Bwahahaha...

.....funny story doooood.

[Chan790]

42. CB, I can't disagree with your logic but I reach the opposite conclusion.

I believe Hillary is already under-water to an unwinnable degree in the GE.

I think her electability is actually projecting higher than it really is. Yes, the GOP has thrown everything at her in the past...but a lot of it isn't fresh, it's largely out-of-mind. Because people accepted it of her before and it poisoned their opinion of her, they're going to more-readily accept it as soon as they're reminded of it. That ______ is the reason they once felt they'd never vote for her.

There's a certain amount of negativity that a candidate has resistance to, in a sense. I don't like hearing X (for the first time), but I've really liked what candidate A is saying otherwise. versus I don't like hearing X (again?! Ugh. It's probably true.), it's why I didn't think they were a good candidate to begin with, even if I like what they're saying now. The same negative (X) has a higher impact in the second case than the first.

That is to say, not only are her negatives higher but her resistance to past and future negatives is lower.* As soon as she gets the nomination, if she gets the nomination, and they turn full-attention on her, I expect her to drop like a stone when people are reminded why they didn't like her in the past. (and in that sense, Sanders isn't doing her, or Democrats, any favors by refusing to campaign negatively against Clinton.)

*-If you have any doubt of that, note the general IDGAF response of both the public at-large and Sanders supporters to the current NGP VAN problem. There are an awful lot of people whose response was "I don't care if he stole her data or not, I like his platform." Do you think Clinton would be resisting it so well if the blame-arrow was facing in the other direction? I do not.

[leftofcool]

73. You are quite mistaken.

There are many angry Democrats about data being stolen. All you see are Bernie supporters who don't give a damn about theft.

[Chan790]

83. As a general news-story, it's a yawner.

Most people I talk to from across the political spectrum don't care...or somehow blame Clinton. The point remains, I think Hillary is more vulnerable to her negatives than Sanders is.

[bunnies]

43. You linked to a site that calls Hillary "Killary Rotten Clinscum" right on the page you linked to.

What the fuck, exactly, is your motive here? You should be ashamed of yourself. Disgusting

THE REAL BERNIE SANDERS? My ass. http://tomatobubble.com/sanders.html

[Nonhlanhla]

45. I don't like those links either

But I think the point of the OP is not simply tell us that Sanders will be attacked, but to say that current polls that show that Bernie does better than Hilary against some Repubs, cannot be trusted. The fact is that on the national stage, Bernie is largely unvetted. His negatives can only go down once the GOP set their eyes on him, and they WILL go down. Hillary's can hardly go down more. I bet that if Bernie is the nominee, his negatives will be as high or higher than Hillary's by the end of the campaign.

Both of them have deep flaws as candidates. And yet both would bring something valuable to the table: Bernie his progressive vision, and Hillary her extensive knowledge of both domestic and foreign issues (among other things). We kid ourselves if we want to argue that either one of them will have an easy time defeating someone like Rubio (who I think will end up being the candidate).

[angrychair]

56. Dont like them?

The pro-nazi holocaust denying hate speech link you mean? What point is that link making? So, because it says bad things about Bernie the holocaust denying is something you are willing to overlook?

[Nonhlanhla]

89. Wow, just wow

What part of "DON'T like them" did you not understand? I AGREED that those sites are bad. I merely clarified the point the OP was making. It's not that complicated.

Geez.

[Lil Missy]

47. More right wing trash sources. n/t

[ViseGrip]

48. You're not smearing, just ignoring a huge fact. Bernie has a 50 yr political history to comb through

And, you won't find any critters hiding in there.

That is why you just witnessed a planned shit show that has blown back in their face.

GO BERINE!

[fredamae]

49. Why Bernie Will Win

"Bernie Sanders is just a man. But he represents and calls out to something transcendent in all of us. Call it integrity, call it dignity, call it human decency. Call it hope for us all."

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/22/1462775/-Bernie-poised-for-the-biggest-political-upset-in-American-history
MSM et al can ignore him, disrespect him, personally attack him - all they want. The Most important factor here is the Fact that Millions and Millions who Do support and Will Vote For Sanders For President are also Ignored.
Polls are insignificant, imo. "We", collectively however, are Not.

[brewens]

51. I'm liking that Bernie has so many individual donors. That's bigger than many want to

admit. Right-wingers can't think that's just low income people wanting free stuff. You don't make political contributions if you're poor, not usually. We may have a small percentage there, scraping together anything they can, betting on Bernie being their only chance.

[angrychair]

63. Pro nazi holocaust denying

Links to smear Bernie now???
This OP uses a link titled THE REAL BERNIE SANDERS:
This is a pro-Nazi, holocaust denying website.

I alerted and lost 0-6. I can only assume then that DU is OK with holocaust denying pro Nazi websites attacking a Democratic candidate for president who had family murdered in Nazi death camps.
Do you care???

[Armstead]

65. The people who respond that that kline of attack will also hate Hillary

Look at what the GOP threw at Obama. They painted him as a Muslim/Communist/Angry Black Community RabbleRouser, a friend of SDS bombers, a lawyer who coiuldn't make it in the private sector....blah,blah,blah.-- and a lot of assholes believe it.

And they'll throw variations of the same crap at Clinton as well as Sanders.

There is unfortunately, a segment of the population who believes that kind of shit about anyone on the center-left side of the spectrum and who is not a Republican.

The people who are moderate to liberal will be more open-minded and reject that kind of smear. Millenials are more open minded, and many of us Baby Boomers went through similar wayward periods in our younger lives.

But Bernie's message of economic populism also has more potential to reach at least some people who might be called "angry swing voters" who fall into the category of "Reagan democrats" etc.

[Bluenorthwest]

79. His links also attack Hillary. And use racist insults about Obama. Here's what I read:

"Whether by accident or by design, Bernie Mania will likely help Killary Rotten Clinscum's campaign by making her seem like a "moderate" in comparison. In Heartland American states such as Iowa, where most Democrats would never regard themselves as full blown Marxists (though they basically are), the facade of "moderation" is important for a Demoncrap Presidential candidate. Even Obongo's handlers understood the importance of packaging the Big Zero as "post-partisan" back in 2008. "

[randys1]

68. DU should NEVER allow links to ANY denial site or someplace like stormfront...no MATTER how

that link is being used.

[MuseRider]

69. This is disgusting but

other than that all I can say is that when Bernie Sanders gets hit and denies it people believe him because they trust him and he does not have a reputation for playing foul, lying or attempting to skew the truth. THAT is the difference between Senator Sanders and Hillary. It is well known that she is not trusted or believed a lot of the time. It will be much easier for Bernie to slide through these kinds of things by talking and telling the truth. His honesty and consistency precede these problems.

[bvar22]

74. You seem concerned about Koch Brothers money.

Are you aware that Koch Brothers Money helped elect Bill Clinton,
and Koch Industries had a Koch Brothers Representative sitting on the DLC Executive Council?


Koch Brothers & their influence in the conservative Democratic Leadership Council (DLC)
http://americablog.com/2010/08/koch-industries-gave-funding-to-the-dlc-and-served-on-its-executive-council.html

THAT explains a lot to me.
NOW I understand why Bill is frequently referred to as the best Republican President we've ever had.

UNREC, for "catapulting the propaganda" here.

[Rex]

75. As opposed to them using sexist language against HRC and a host of other lies?

Why don't you wait until the GOP starts doing this or did you smile when you thought of it first?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

77. a YUUGE difference between HRC and Bernie

Bernie will survive the attacks because he tends to be consistent, honest, and intelligent.
Hillary deals with attacks by having others attack the source, by tiptoeing on key issues until her polling data is in, and by taking widely divergent views, until she settles on a reliably pro-corporate and pro-wall street position.

[Motown_Johnny]

78. Bernie has been in politics far longer than Hillary.

Being married to a politician does not mean you are in politics.


Hillary did not hold elected office until early in 2001. She has only really been in politics for ~15 years.


Yes, I know you will redefine what it means to be in politics to suit your needs. That just proves you are wrong. The truth exists. She has not been in politics anywhere near as long as Bernie has.

[redstateblues]

82. Honeymoon in Moscow?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. As good a chance as Hillary. And, a far better chance of getting my vote if he's nominated.

[Douglas Carpenter]

87. I do remember 1972 quite well how the Prairie Populist, Sen. George McGovern

went from being the war hero and small town Methodist minister and college teacher that he was to being the candidate of Amnesty, Acid and Abortion and a communist sympathizer. And most of that was coming from prominent Democrats who tried to screw him out of the nomination after he had already won fair and square. The Republicans just picked it up afterwards.

So, I do agree that we must be prepared for that kind of thing from both partys if Sen. Sanders really starts taking off in a big way. They will do that - and not just the Republicans. We see even on this forum what they are willing to resort to. Imagine the big guns with millions dollars and endless amounts of resources. We already seen hints of the kind of tactics they are prepared to use just this past week.

As a strong Bernie supporter, I thank you for your OP. Unfortunately many people don't like being warned of what to expect. There is no other way to prepare for the for these things if one doesn't know they are coming.

[CajunBlazer]

90. Thanks for your reasonable post

I think far too many here on DU live in a fairyland where they believe nothing can go wrong and their candidates are made of Teflon. If they think the Democratic primaries are rough (where none of the candidates to their credit have really gone after each other this time around), they can't possibly be ready for the main event. It will be like going from little league football directly into the pros.

[PowerToThePeople]

92. I am sure I said this a while ago

But it is worth repeating, "enjoy your stay."

[stevenleser]

93. Anyone who thinks Bernie can win the G.E. either doesnt have the foggiest idea about politics here

or has deluded themselves to the point that they have completely overwhelmed any cognitive processes they have with wishful thinking.

I've watched Republicans go after seven Democratic Presidential nominees now, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama.

They completely destroyed Carter when he ran for re-election, and likewise they destroyed Mondale and Dukakis. Gore and Kerry far outclassed their opponent and still they were brought down, Gore with all kinds of nonsense thrown at him, Kerry by slandering his excellent service record against someone who basically was AWOL/deserted. Clinton never got over 50% of the vote and he was way better than both opponents. Of course Obama's margin was affected by the financial downturn the first time. He was a much better candidate than Romney when running for reelection but again, look what the Republicans have done to him. It should not have been 5 points, it should have been 10-15 points that he beat Romney by.

Sanders would hand them multiple attack points on a silver platter. Not only does he have the Socialist thing but he now has proposed a middle class tax increase.

If he is nominated, by September 15th, he will be down 15-20 points and that is about where it will end.

[CajunBlazer]

96. Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct!

I guess we need to understand that for many of Bernie supporters, he is the first Presidential candidate in their lifetimes who has met their criteria for the office, and he will probably be the last.

[Douglas Carpenter]

100. less I be miss understood - I certainly think he CAN win - I have trouble imagining

Trump winning. I wouldn't be wasting my time and money supporting him If I didn't think he could win. But, it will not be easy and those of us who do support Sen. Sanders need to be prepared. I suspect Hillary would run into a firestorm as well if she is the nominee.

I'm also old enough to remember Barry Goldwater's massive landslide defeat to LBJ in 1964. I was in fourth grade at the time. Anyway, I digress. That was seen as absolute proof by most pundits at the time that the far fright could never-ever win at the national level. Yet, they came back sixteen years later and won and kept winning. If they can do it. So can we. But we need to be prepared for the worst. Because, it will be thrown at us.

The fact that they have been calling even center-right Democrats extreme leftist and socialist - people who supported and signed legislation to the right of Ronald Reagan. This might take the sting out of someone who actually is somewhat leftwing and calls themselves a socialist. The right may have inadvertently taken the sting out of the word socialist by using it even in the most preposterous of situations.

[Rebkeh]

101. I don't put a lot of stock in polls but

I do know Bernie does very well in Vermont, this is not his first rodeo. While it's true that Vermont is not the U.S, he knows how to win elections, even in conservative areas. We should not underestimate him.

I repeat, do not underestimate him.

[Kalidurga]

105. You mean to say that Republicans will say worse things about Bernie than...

Hillary supporters have said here?

[Bernblu]

107. The same applies to Hillary

They'll call her a socialist, Madame Wall St. They'll insinuate that she's a lesbian, a murderer and all the crap you hear on right wing radio. And they really do hate her, much more than they hate Bernie. I hear it from my right wing friends and relatives all of the time. They call her a murderer and a million epithets I won't repeat on DU. So, it going to be ugly no matter who the Democratic nominee is. So, should we give in to the right wingers and not nominate Hillary or Bernie or should fight for our beliefs and principles.

This diary is a red-baiting smear of Bernie by someone who believes that Bernie's supporters are cowards who won't stand up for their beliefs. If this all the Clinton supporters have they must be really desperate.

[eridani]

108. So? Obama, Bill Clinton, Kerry and Gore were all socialists according to Repukes.

[Bernblu]

109. Reagan would be a better comparison for Bernie than McGovern

McGovern was the first person I voted for. I was proud to vote for him. He was great man but not a good candidate. It was also a very different time. It was during the cold war and America was in Viet Nam. The country was just coming out of a very traumatic decade of racial, civil, and cultural strife. There was no internet and little cable TV. Most Americans got their news on the nightly news. Economically things were still pretty good for the middle class and for all his faults, and there were many, Nixon was not an economic conservative like Republicans are today. In fact he was to left of Hillary on some issues.

Another contra-analogy to McGovern and Sanders would be Goldwater and Reagan. Goldwater, who Hillary supported in 1964, lost almost as bad as McGovern did. He won only his home state of Arizona and about 5 dixiecrat states in the deep south. So when Reagan ran people said he'll never win because he was too conservative like Goldwater. But Reagan won because he was a good candidate but more importantly the time was right for him. His supporters didn't say "Oh my we shouldn't support Reagan because he'll never win. Look what happened to Goldwater." No, they fought hard for their beliefs and won.

Democrats and progressives should do the same and not be scared of what the right wing thinks. We must stop triangulating and moving the Overton Window further and further right. If we believe in the things Bernie believes in, as does most of the country, we must support and fight for him and we might just win, If we don't support and fight for what we believe in we will never win. Bernie is a much better candidate than McGovern and the time just might be right for him.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

110. (shrug) Republicans threw everything they had at Obama and lost twice.

[beam me up scottie]

111. Interesting to see which posters rec'd this and also used anti-Semitic dog whistles in the past.

Looks like your "horrific rhetoric" found its target audience, congratulations.

I wish I could say I was surprised to see Holocaust denying neo-Nazi propaganda sites linked to here, or to see who rec'd them but I learned long ago not to expect too much from folks.

As if linking to Stormfront to smear a Jewish candidate wasn't bad enough, now we're going to tomatobubble for opposition research.

According to Hillary supporters on DU Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a pro gunner that thinks women enjoy being raped, racist, gun nut, scheming little sneak, drooling, sweating old fool, scumbag, pandering phony braggart with some kind of emotional instability, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies, thinks that orgasms prevent cancer, wants the guns in the streets, is supported by Stormfront and whose supporters are groomed by psychopaths.

So I guess I can't really blame you, why wouldn't you think your disgusting op would be welcomed with open arms?


A sincere thank you to the Hillary supporters who spoke up and didn't rec this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

112. "Sanders, like almost every other Big Jew in America, is also a rabid Russia basher"

That's what you linked to, on a liberal political board.

And 11 people rec'd it.

Take note of their names, everyone, and remember them.



*note to jury, that quote is from the last link, check it out if you don't believe me.

[grossproffit]

113. I truly can't believe that someone would post a Nazi website here.

I'm so fucking pissed.

tomato bubble is a Nazi, Holocaust denying, antisemitic website.

[Bluenorthwest]

116. And it's recommened by a predictable batch of folks from Camp Clinton.

This is why I did not even think about voting for her in the primary. Right here. This is why.

[grossproffit]

117. Sadly, I've seen this crap from both sides.

One very vocal Sanders supporter recently linked a Luke Rudkowski (wearechange) article here.