Martin Luther King weighs in on the 2016 Democratic Party primary

[Scuba]

"Ultimately a genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but he's a molder of consensus.

And on some positions, cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?'

Expedience asks the question, 'Is it politic?'

Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?'

But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?'


~ Martin Luther King"

[demwing]

1. Amen

[1StrongBlackMan]

2. I'll thank you for not attempting to co-opt the legacy of Dr. King ...

if for no other reason, his writings have a lot to say about DU progressives (of course by conduct, not name) that would have you cursing his name.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Martin Luther King's message is universal, just as Ghandi's was. n/t

[reformist2]

4. The OP did not explicitly tell you how to answer MLK's questions.

[Scuba]

5. I've no idea what you're trying to say. Please elaborate.

[virtualobserver]

36. What is an example of something from Dr. King that would have us "cursing his name"?

What an extreme statement for you to make.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. If you know Dr. King's legacy and body of work, you would know ...

especially in the context of this OP.

[virtualobserver]

63. Since Dr. King was giving a definition of a genuine leader....

this quote would apply in any situation requiring leadership, there is no context where it would not apply....but it would apply especially in a primary election for the U. S. Presidency.

I have never read anything by Dr. King that I have ever even disagreed with, much less cause me to "curse his name".

[Ken Burch]

43. Agreed, no one should co-opt Dr. King's message...

...as HRC tried to do when she posed with her "The Weather Is Nice, Wish You Were Here" smile at the Lorraine Motel in '08...

Dr. King WAS calling for socialism in the last two years of his life though. The quotes are out there. Does it bother you that he did?

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. Just stop! Never mind ... Just continue doing you.

[Live and Learn]

53. So you think we should just bury his quotes and never use them?

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

We use famous people's quotes all the time. And Martin Luther King belongs to ALL of us. I strongly believe Martin would approve highly of Bernie!

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. No ... I think people should stop taking his quotes out of context ...

to apply them to things he didn't say and situations that are self-serving.

[bigtree]

6. this was actually the conclusion of a powerful anti-war (and racism) speech he gave in '68

...excerpt 'Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution':

...This is where we are. "Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind," and the best way to start is to put an end to war in Vietnam, because if it continues, we will inevitably come to the point of confronting China which could lead the whole world to nuclear annihilation.

It is no longer a choice, my friends, between violence and nonviolence. It is either nonviolence or nonexistence. And the alternative to disarmament, the alternative to a greater suspension of nuclear tests, the alternative to strengthening the United Nations and thereby disarming the whole world, may well be a civilization plunged into the abyss of annihilation, and our earthly habitat would be transformed into an inferno that even the mind of Dante could not imagine.

This is why I felt the need of raising my voice against that war and working wherever I can to arouse the conscience of our nation on it. I remember so well when I first took a stand against the war in Vietnam. The critics took me on and they had their say in the most negative and sometimes most vicious way.

One day a newsman came to me and said, "Dr. King, don’t you think you’re going to have to stop, now, opposing the war and move more in line with the administration’s policy? As I understand it, it has hurt the budget of your organization, and people who once respected you have lost respect for you. Don’t you feel that you’ve really got to change your position?" I looked at him and I had to say, "Sir, I’m sorry you don’t know me. I’m not a consensus leader. I do not determine what is right and wrong by looking at the budget of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. I’ve not taken a sort of Gallup Poll of the majority opinion." Ultimately a genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus, but a molder of consensus.

On some positions, cowardice asks the question, is it expedient? And then expedience comes along and asks the question, is it politic? Vanity asks the question, is it popular? Conscience asks the question, is it right?

There comes a time when one must take the position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but he must do it because conscience tells him it is right. I believe today that there is a need for all people of goodwill to come with a massive act of conscience and say in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "We ain’t goin’ study war no more." This is the challenge facing modern man.

...it would be nice to leave his words in the context they were delivered.

[Scuba]

7. Are you suggesting that Dr. King's wise words only apply to racism and war?

[bigtree]

12. you misappropriated his words

...he hasn't weighed in on this election.

I think King was clear about what he was referring to, outlined in the speech I linked to, and I'd prefer his words remain in the context of his actual address. Too much of his speech has been misappropriated for others political and partisan purposes.

[Scuba]

13. His words apply to almost any question a politician may face. Can you think of one for which ...

... these wise words would not apply?

[bigtree]

16. it is uncanny how words can be applied to dissimilar subjects

...but MLK's words are preserved in history as a testament to the particular fights he waged.

I'd have less problem with your posting if it was relevant to an issue of race or war, but it still pains me to see his words misappropriated (taken for your own partisan use) for the purposes of the competitive political debate here at DU, for instance. I want them preserved in history in the precise context and on the subject they were delivered.

[Scuba]

19. Well, since the subject was leadership, my usage is exactly on point.

[bigtree]

23. you've evaded my own meaning,

...but since my subject was misappropriation of words...on point.

[Scuba]

28. Keep going; you're doing a great job of undermining your own argument.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Thank you ...

But to know that, one would have to know something about Dr. King's legacy ... something those on DU that most frequently quote Dr. King on DU, sorely lack>

[bigtree]

30. his words are his legacy and testament to the particular fights he waged

...so many historical accounts serve to distort or dilute his speech to model whatever the user is selling.

It's well known that misappropriation of his words is a point of contention among his admirers, family, and historians, but it's irresistible, nonetheless, to adopt his phrases to buttress our latter-day politics. There's so much brilliance behind his words that they would, indeed, seem to apply to almost all of our needs and woes. That's the beauty of his ministerial experience.

I would, however, prefer that we leave his words in the context in which they were spoken - in this case, referring to racism and war; particularly segregation and social responsibility to address it; and to his opposition to the Vietnam war. That's important enough to me to avoid out-of-context associations with his remarks which detract from his specific meaning at the time. It's all we have left of a powerful and transformational legacy of care and action from the man.

Wary of the misappropriations which are a character of our partisan political debates and discussions, it's important enough for me to try and preserve all of that history, intact. It's not that it's such a pernicious act as to elicit overdue scorn, but the dissemination of the accurate record of the history of that time, individual by individual, is precious enough to defend.

That's my last word on this.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. Well stated last word. eom

[Ken Burch]

46. We can assume that Dr. King would have been just as opposed to the Iraq War, though

and that he would totally have rejected the "liberal hawk" argument that buttressed it.

Dr. King made it absolutely clear that he believed that war was always going to be the deathbed of all movements for progressive change. Life stops when we send in the Marines.

[Proserpina]

27. Are you implying that those quotes were NOT used in context?

Because to my eye, they address the very same issues now as then: war, peace, consensus, and the ultimate question of conscience: Is it right?

These quotations cannot be applied to any other candidate for public office since the shocking assassination of MLK....certainly not anyone running against Bernie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

44. Yes. I am.

[yardwork]

8. As a white person, I cringe when I see other whites co-opt MLK's words for their own purposes.

I'm not sure what the goal is. This has happened over and over on DU and the outcome has not been an outpouring of support for Bernie Sanders from the targeted minorities. Nobody's mind is changed and people just get annoyed.

Is the purpose of your OP to annoy?

[Scuba]

9. How did you decide that quoting Dr. King is co-opting? Or are you suggesting ...

... that only blacks can quote Dr. King?







Or was the purpose of your reply only to annoy?

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. No ... Anyone can quote Dr. King's words ...

the co-opting part comes when someone takes those words out of context to support a point, Dr. King wasn't making.

That is annoying.

[Scuba]

40. Hey, he was talking about leadership, same thing we're talking about here. What's with your ...

... "out-of-context" statement?











Perhaps you're simply annoyed that Dr. King's definition of a leader paints Hillary in a very poor light?

[JonLeibowitz]

51. Interesting.... *cricket*.

[Uncle Joe]

10. Do we use Jefferson, Lincoln, FDRs, JFK's etc. etc. etc. words in regards to life's lessons?

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" being just one small example.

[yardwork]

11. Not the same thing at all.

[Scuba]

14. Why not?

[Uncle Joe]

15. Why is that, should the wisdom of Martin Luther King be off limits? What about Ghandi, MLK

was influenced by Ghandi?

[Proserpina]

29. or the Bible, Koran, Torah? Other venerated wisdom of other ages and peoples?

To get so touchy about people who agree with MLK on the basis of their (presumed) skin color, smacks of something not very nice.

Thanks, Uncle Joe. Hope I don't mess up your argument.

[Uncle Joe]

32. You have not, Proserpina but I think I know where some are coming from,

they're afraid of MLK's legacy being misappropriated and I can understand that but if you go too far with that kind of mentality you end up freezing Martin Luther King in time and place with little to no chance of his ever living or universal wisdom expanding and passing down through the ages.

[Proserpina]

35. It doesn't improve his reputation, either

as a leader of conscience and thought, to lock him up in a closet for the select few, when he's obviously talking universal truths.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Yes ...

we use quotes of great (and lesser) men, all the time ... but, one should expect to be called out/out when one uses those words out of context to make a point the original speak wasn't making.

[Uncle Joe]

25. While Martin Luther King used those words in regards to the war with Vietnam, the wisdom behind them

are universal truths and could appropriately apply to all manner of life events, Presidential Elections being just one and governance in general being another.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Okay. eom

[Uncle Joe]

34. Peace to you. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. And, also, onto you. eom

[LiberalElite]

20. IMO those who get annoyed over this quote will be

annoyed no matter what a Sanders supporter has to say.

[yardwork]

22. The subject line is flat-out false.

Martin Luther King never "weighed in" on the 2016 Democratic primaries.

[haikugal]

26. False only because it goes to the heart of the matter.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. Funny ... I hadn't made the connection ...

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

It seems that the only DUers that constantly take the words of Dr. King out of context ... are Bernie supporters. ETA: And those doing it, also, have a proclivity towards not supporting the body of his work ... his opposition to white supremacy. Imagine that!

[Ken Burch]

47. There is no context problem.

Dr. King was a socialist and anti-militarist...and capitalism and war are always going to be forces that work to destroy his dream.

Social change becomes impossible when we send in the Marines. That was why everyone in the Sixties Left(including essentially everyone in the freedom movement)were opposed to staying in Vietnam. That's why nobody in the CBC(other than the one or two Republicans that passed through it)backed the Iraq War.

Acknowledging universality in Dr. King's message doesn't steal him away from the black community. Neither does acknowledging the increasing and eloquent radicalism in it.

Dr. King fought to free a people. In the end, he came to believe that this required, in different ways, freeing an entire nation. That doesn't mean anyone thinks he thought that whites had it as bad as blacks, or that racism was a trivial matter, or that we've somehow done away with racism. It just means that he moved from the particular to the more deeply structural, to the roots of the matter. How is that a bad thing? Who does that harm? Why isn't that something you would celebrate?

You seem to have an essentially separatist consciousness, and as separatism is always reactionary and self-defeating in the end, that is sad.

Ultimately, any struggle for justice needs to become universal in the end if it is truly to succeed.

[Live and Learn]

54. What a sill thing to say. Should black people not be allowed to use Thomas Jefferson's quotes?

Only Indians can use Gandhi's quotes?

Utter foolishness!

[KittyWampus]

37. And this misappropriation of an African American icon is why Sanders supporters

are hurting his chances in the primaries.

[Uncle Joe]

42. Are you suggesting Martin Luther Kings word's aren't universal wisdom that can apply to

Presidential elections or governance in general?

What about FDR's words "We have nothing fear but fear itself" did that only apply to the 1930s Great Depression or does it have a universal meaning?

[Ken Burch]

45. He never misappropriated Dr. King.

All he did was to point out that his message happens to be closer to Dr. King's message than anyone else in the race. This is a factual statement.

He didn't say Dr. King would endorse him from beyond the grave, for God's sakes.

[NCTraveler]

38. No comment as to what MLK would have said.

https://m.

[oasis]

49. Powerful post # 38. Hillary "weighs in" on women's rights in 1995 Bejing.

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Was it safe? Was it politic? Was it popular? Was it right?.

Thanks and a tip of the hat to you, NCTraveler.

[NCTraveler]

41. .

https://m.

[Autumn]

50. A timeless message. Truth is always a message that fits in whatever time it is needed to fit.

Think you for posting Dr. Kings words.

[Number23]

52. Ignorant, tone deaf and tasteless.

Should get you at least a couple hundred recs and even more undying affection from the clueless.

[Live and Learn]

55. Just stop it. Everyone knows that Martin Luther King belongs to Hillary alone.

And only she and her supporters can use his quotes.

[MeNMyVolt]

56. A new low for DU. Congrats.

Can you at least change your damn title since you know it offends so many DUers. Have some decency.

[Scuba]

57. Bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! You really think I'm worried about people taking offense at THIS?

[MeNMyVolt]

60. Fine, then you don't care about your fellow DUers.

No fucking text.

[Scuba]

61. Read Dr. King's words that I quoted in the OP. Then read them again. Then tell me with ...

... a straight face that I should edit my post because it might be unpopular with a few DU members.

[MeNMyVolt]

62. The title, the title.

Why not change it to MLK's wise words or something. You know what the problem is here.

[Scuba]

64. Yes, I know what the problem is.

Dr. King's wise words about what it takes to make a leader paint Hillary in a very poor light, and that offends some people who would prefer to forget her well-documented track record and her stable of 200+ advisors which includes people like Robert Kagan and Henry Kissinger.

Tough.

[shiriu]

65. Maybe so, but people used the title to derail the thread from it's intended discussion.

[MeNMyVolt]

66. And now you validate 1SBM's initial protest. Perfect.

Don't let this primary destroy your rep on this board.

[Scuba]

67. Meh.

[MohRokTah]

68. You did exactly what the wing nuts do with Dr. MLK Jr., Coopt him for your

petty political purposes.

Congratulations.