Yo, dudes: Alpha males are a myth, according to actual experts on wolves

[seabeyond]

Despite the different names, the story is always, monotonously, the same: In their late teens and twenties, when they’re at the height of their sexual appeal, women (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) have sex in rapid succession with an assortment of charismatic but unreliable alpha males and “bad boys” who make their vaginas (or just ‘ginas) tingle. Then, sometime in their mid-to-late twenties, these women “hit the wall,” with their so-called sexual market value (or SMV) dropping faster than Facebook’s stock price. As Roissy/Heartiste puts it, in his typically overheated prose:

So sad, so tragic, the inevitable slide into sexual worthlessness that accompanies women, the withering tick tock of the cosmic clock stripping their beauty in flayed bits of soulletting mignons like psychological ling chi. A sadistic thief in the night etching, billowing, draping and sagging a new affront to her most preciously guarded asset.

ok women, if for no other reason than listening to this little boy, can we let go of this illusion that society, patriarchy and men feed us about our worth in our looks... fuck this

While many women try to pretend they’ve still “got it,” even at the ripe old age of thirty, they inevitably have to either get off or get thrown off the “cock carousel.” At this point the more savvy women glom onto some convenient “beta male” who, while somewhat lacking in sexual appeal, will at least be a good husband and provider for them – and in many cases the children they’ve had with alpha male seed. Those women who don’t accept the new reality are destined to end up alone and childless, surrounded by cats.

To borrow the phrase South Park used in its episodes about Scientology and Mormonism, this is what manosphere men actually believe. Not only that, but they claim that this fairy tale is based on real science.

The problem, you see, is that the studies underlying the notion of the alpha male wolf, who aggressively asserts his dominance over beta males in order to rule the pack, were all based on observations of wolves in captivity. In the real world, wolf packs don’t work that way at all. Most wolf packs are basically wolf families, with a breeding pair and their pups. When male pups reach adulthood, they don’t fight their fathers for dominance — they go out and start their own families.

http://manboobz.com/2012/08/22/yo-dudes-alpha-males-are-a-myth-according-to-actual-experts-on-wolves/comment-page-6/


this guy is so much fun.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

1. Geeez ...

So much generalization ... so little time. I wonder if he noticed the irony.

Hey, let's man-bash, in defense of all women!

[seabeyond]

2. where are you seeing man bash? bah hahah. cause the alpha illusion is challenged,

that is man bashing? or talking about the ugly things men are saying about women... is man bashing?

that is an hoot

[Fantastic Anarchist]

3. The generalizations are very off-putting.

But hey, it's your dime, not mine.

Better ways to make an argument.

"haha" notwithstanding.

[seabeyond]

4. are you now saying there is no man bashing? good. what generalization? what is the issue?

men groups are using this to abuse women. i post about it. it is an illusionary story that they tell. we need to know the truth if we want any possibility to health. i am doing a public service. what is the issue?

are you defending the "alpha male" concept and not liking it challenged? offended it is challenged?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

5. I'm offended at the generalization.

Not the premise. But you know that, and the fact that you're playing obtuse is even more skittish.

The irony of the OP is quite telling. And those who post it and thought it made a point, well, hmm, not a great way to make an argument, in my opinion.

[seabeyond]

6. no. i am clueless what generalization you are talking. like clueless about the man bashing.

hence, why i am asking you question why you say there are generalizations. what generalizations are you talking about?

and what is the irony? i do not see that either.

[zazen]

8. I'm sincerely confused--what's the generalization? n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

9. Your post is disgusting, too.

I don't need you to come to my defense.

Call her names and the use of the word "faggot" do not further your argument, either.

Now, fuck off.

Edit to add: Good grief, your post is either uninspiring sarcastic wit, or it's pure unadulterated, neanderthalic bullshit.

[seabeyond]

13. thank you fantastic. now...

i would truly like to hear why you are bothered about this OP. because, what it is really addressing is the men that you responded to. and that is about it. i thought it insightful that poster shows off to spew what he did. giving us a perfect example of what is being discussed.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

14. But he is not indicative of all men ...

... and, to me, the opening post made that premise.

Maybe, I was too critical. Maybe, I'm hungover. I don't know. I still think that there are better ways to make that argument.

For what it's worth, I never believed in the "alpha" male concept as it applies today. I do think that it has its evolutionary value, but now that we are supposedly "intellectual" beings, I don't think that plays an important role, if any at all.

And as with everything in life, we are going to have examples of the premise, but the premise still needs to be proven.

I'm off to crash ... had a bad night.

[seabeyond]

15. i am sorry you had a bad night.... sleep long and well.

and it is no where close to all men. at all.

thanks for clarifying for better understanding.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

16. Thank you. Be well.

[seabeyond]

11. ya. this. perfect example of the little boy net mouth. who are you? nt

[Dash87]

10. But women only like bad asses!

I'm never gonna be nice to wimmenz again!


'Entitled Whine ®' is a trademark of Nice Guy™. All rights reserved, except for any woman that you want.

[seabeyond]

12. cute.

i do think the net lets this problem grow. and i do not think it is healthy or behooves either gender.

[ismnotwasm]

17. I've used this idea

So anecdotally, it explained the inexplicable behavior of certain males. Not understanding the mild rough housing or 'kidding around' with each other I've seen in groups of guy friends, it often looks like jockeying for position, but not so much in competition for women, but just being friends. It seemed different than the ways women do it. It seemed to worsen in the presence of less women--say one. If there was actual competition, nobody looked very good, just silly.

Thinking about it harder, women do the same thing in their friendships less rough housing maybe, more teasing. The presence of male friends might clean it up a bit, or get the full force, if the guy(s) were good friends, but the same good natured back and forth happens, and if friends are emotionally intelligent (mine are) there's a level of sensitivity that understands what lines not to cross.

That's friendship. Sex, or sexual conquest goes something like this, alphas get the most, betas get the next amount, or whats 'leftover' and omega's are lucky to have sex at all.

Since we all know this isn't true, and that a man who is unkindly out there 'getting laid' with lies or no concern for feelings, is not an 'Alpha' he's an asshole. What possible evolutionary benefit is that? War and wallstreet maybe.


It may be that women who fall for this Alpha, it's not so much the bad boy scenario but a level of insecurity and naïveté that women can have. Multi- media messages about what is valuable in women doesn't help or, in this scenario male-centric anthropology


I like the way the article points out that Alphas are really betas, but I remember wolves are often matriarchal, or at least have a dominant couple leading the pack, male and female. Plus humans are not fucking wolves.



All that being said, if I was a wolf, I'd be an alpha female, simply because I'm assertive. It doesn't matter what I do or don't look like. If I'm a alpha, the male in the pack follow my lead, obey my decisions, and like it. (Or get their ass kicked in the animal world) as they would with any social structure that heretical.
I don't see that happening around the world for assertive women, do you?
Good article Sea!

[seabeyond]

26. Thinking about it harder, women do the same thing in their friendships

as i started reading your post, i was thinking just this. i agree with your post and well said.

i too am assertive, or aggressive, lol. always have been, always will be. i hadnt thought about it but about 30 i was a manager of a business. a really timid employee said that i intimidated her. that i was aggressive. i was really surprised. wha? i didnt see it. the more she explained and gave examples, and i thought about it, she is right. and because she is so timid, i made sure i never took advantage of her. i would never ask her to do things, if she wasnt busy, cause she would say yes regardless. lol.

my son broke up with his GF this weekend. the GF said she would hint at things and he would not pick it up. (meet her needs). he told me, it was true and was his fault. that he figures he was just so use to my straight talk and bluntness that he was not hearing her.

it is all in the character, the person in who we are.

my whole family is me.

my husband is the least aggressive person i know. not timid. and has his lines. but it is not done aggressively.

[redqueen]

18. lol... "cock carousel"

I can't help but love that term

All those angry menz... soooo jellis of the women who decided they wanted to have lots of sex... fantasizing and ranting about how awful their lives are after they get all those jollies.


Notice they have no angry, overwrought, bitter, tearful insults for all the hot guys who get to ride whichever kind of carousel they want while they're young and hot... all their bile seems to be directed at women. Very telling, that.

On that note, there don't seem to be any gay men who are so bitter and resentful of the fact that they didn't get all of teh sexin from all the hot young guys who rode the "cock carousel". Weird, huh? It seems to be mostly (if not only) heterosexual men doing all this bellyaching. Hmm.

All these angry, bitter menz should just biff the fuck off... it's not anyone's fault they didn't get all teh sex. They just need to get over it and grow up, but stewing in their pathetic entitled juices is more rewarding for them for some reason.

[Dash87]

20. All you should ever need to do,

to get people yo like you is to call yourself a nice guy. Seems legit. Lol

[seabeyond]

27. after ready a particular thread, i think this is what it all boils down to. men fighting so hard to

declare to the world that their sexuality is all that. it is all important. it is so much beyond what a woman experiences, they cannot even know. that everything should be about the man.

but, i think what it really is that women get off as much as men, like sex as much as men, have ownership as much as men.

and the mans entitlement to be ruler (after all they have all that testosterone so makes them special) of sex has toppled. so the hard press to gain that recognition in todays culture. to the point of dismissing and owning womens sexuality. i think it is causing a real hate.

it is sex. just a part of our life. the person who is getting it can put it in a healthy, grounded place and only be a part of their life. not the whole of their life. how sad is it when it takes up all of a persons life.

[Dash87]

19. Found at any gym near you.

This is just another bad version of Evo-Psych, and has the same horrible misogyny (young women are brainless sex devices, and any 'thing' older than that no longer matters).

It must be the full moon that causes these wackos to come out of the woodwork.

[seabeyond]

28. i am so glad, and happy, lol, that you see it like this.

i ALWAYS appreciate the man that says this.

a couple years ago i was seeing more and more of the evo psych. it felt wrong. the more research i did, the more study i did, i saw it as another "religion" using science rather than god to create dominance and control of women. a patriarchy.

i was telling my husband about a particular study and mens comments on du. he says, no way. men do not think like this any more. i said, ya... it is a new thing. it is growing. men are adopting this attitude. the years go by and my hubby is just flabbergasted seeing this crap being promoted, but is aware and understand much more.

i think the mentality is growing and feeding, expanding. and sites like this is teaching our young guys. they like the feel of dominance so regardless if it makes sense they adopt the cult like mentality.

[One_Life_To_Give]

21. Entertaining

Incredibly shallow but good for a laugh.

Sadly there are a handful of guys who think this way. But the rest of us know they are as attractive as the Flu.

[seabeyond]

29. there are so many sites that believe this garbage and i feel it is growing. i do feel that the

majority of men see it for what it is. but our young guys, ... well, i just see this reinforcing needs for them. it sets up both genders for a lot of unhappy.

[Shivering Jemmy]

22. Not sure why this expert is right

And all other wolf experts are wrong.

Not sure it matters anyway. Humans aren't wolves.

[ismnotwasm]

23. Are you a Neil Gaiman Fan?

(Curious because of the user name)

Anyway, I don't think he's trying to be a expert as much as making a philosophical point. Alphas in wolves tend to be mated pairs. And you're right--- we're not wolves

[Shivering Jemmy]

24. Huge Gaiman fan

Love him.

Humans invoking other animals to justify our behavior drives me nuts. And even if we were predisposed toward an alpha male like social organization, it doesn't make it a fair or good idea for where our society is at.

I do think we are probably doomed by our biology but for cognitive not sexual reasons. A brain adapted to a 40 year life span is going to have a tough time solving multigenerational problems.

[ismnotwasm]

25. It's an excuse

And one that's repeated in media--- no matter that we're closer to Primates than wolves. 'Alpha' apparently is synonymous with 'aggressive asshole'

Octavia Butler, a Sci-Fi writer in her book 'Lilith' the aliens told human beings we were doomed because we were both intelligent and hierarchical. An idea that's depressing, even if the book is excellent.

(Also a Neil Gaiman fan, BTW)