"Menopause May Be an Unintended Outcome of Men's Preference for Younger Mates"

[zazen]

Another reminder how superfluous we are if we're no longer "young women." I'm so sick of this shit. And I'm all for accepting awful theories even if they're uncomfortable, but this seems like more sociobiological crap to me.


[link:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130614082653.htm|

June 14, 2013 — After decades of laboring under other theories that never seemed to add up, a team led by biologist Rama Singh has concluded that what causes menopause in women is men. Singh, an evolutionary geneticist, backed by computer models developed by colleagues Jonathan Stone and Richard Morton, has determined that menopause is actually an unintended outcome of natural selection -- the result of its effects having become relaxed in older women.

Over time, human males have shown a preference for younger women in selecting mates, stacking the Darwinian deck against continued fertility in older women, the researchers have found.

The new theory holds that, over time, competition among men of all ages for younger mates has left older females with much less chance of reproducing. The forces of natural selection, Singh says, are concerned only with the survival of the species through individual fitness, so they protect fertility in women while they are most likely to reproduce.

After that period, natural selection ceases to quell the genetic mutations that ultimately bring on menopause, leaving women not only infertile, but also vulnerable to a host of health problems.

[BainsBane]

1. Jesus fucking christ

Child birth is incredible difficult on the human body. Our bodies grow weaker as we age and therefore we aren't strong enough to give birth. Now these guys think they control even our biological evolution? This researcher is a complete moron.

[Skittles]

2. OR it could be a way of giving women a break

[niyad]

3. after decades of laboring under theories that don't add up (says WHO??) THREE MEN

came up with the brilliant notion that a natural change in bodily function is the result of MALE preference for younger mates (forget the progeny bit, let's talk about WHY men prefer younger women-- a desire for control, perhaps??)

what utter drivel.

[Warpy]

4. Ah, nothing like males using pseudoscience to try to deodorize

their preference for girls less than half their ages. While that likely is hard wired, it has nothing to do with the phenomenon of menopause.

Actually, menopause protects us in later life when the Herculean act of pregnancy followed by childbirth would be fatal even more of the time than it is for young women. These things might be normal human functions but they put tremendous stress on a woman's body.

As for old women being useless for everything because they're no longer dewy and useful for sex, that's another cruel fiction. Most of us grow into wisdom and gawd knows we could all use more of that particular commodity.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. ^^^ +1

Agreed and, IMHO, quite insightful.

[JI7]

20. that is mostly the reason for menopause isn't it ?

how pregnancy later on would be much more harmful to women.

but somehow people try to use it into something having to do with men and what they want sexually.

[Warpy]

21. Yeah, aren't they something?

The poor dears who write this twaddle really do think the planet revolves around their willies.

[redqueen]

22. Yes, they really do.

It'd be funny in a really pathetic way if it weren't for the fact that so many women grow up in this culture and internalize that same male-centric worldview.

I was just reading a young feminist talking about how women who don't shave their legs 'make feminism look bad'.

[Warpy]

23. I hope you replied "Her legs, her decision, MYOB"

Some people need reminders that the uterus isn't the only part of a woman's body that she controls.

[redqueen]

27. She was already getting an earful and I didn't want to pile on...

lest we militant feminists be accused of bullying

[MadrasT]

24. Wait

I was just reading a young feminist fauxminist talking about how women who don't shave their legs 'make feminism look bad'.

Fixed it for ya.

[redqueen]

28. ...

[Voice for Peace]

5. nah.. I think women brought in on themselves, so they wouldn't have to deal with men any more

honestly.

[zazen]

7. really, or younger women choose older men

because the younger men are even bigger assholes than the older ones and they'll die sooner.

I mean, that's a hateful scenario with which I don't agree either, but it's no more absurd than the notion that women don't have any agency at all (or worth beyond their sexual access and desirability to men), which is clearly unfathomable to these entitled f**ks.

[Voice for Peace]

12. what I dislike enormously is that these old white men can still produce offspring on account of viag

ra

[Voice for Peace]

18. there are so many excellent scientific theories one can come up with about just about anything

doofuses is a good word for them. lol, don't hear that word too often.

[niyad]

6. "a whole host of health problems"--for which big pharma just HAPPENS to have the oh-so-

expensive drugs. menopause is NOT an illness, not a disease, you clueless twits.

[Voice for Peace]

13. +++

who the fk are these researchers?

[Bay Boy]

34. It's not an illness, it's not a disease, but...

...it is a problem for some women, right? So why shouldn't big pharma develop solutions?

[niyad]

38. you forgot the sarcasm icon, yes?

[Bay Boy]

40. Noooo.....

...why in the world would you say or think that?

[niyad]

41. if you seriously have to ask WHY big pharma shouldn't be selling solutions for things that are not

problems, I honestly do not have the time to explain it to you.

[Bay Boy]

43. Well isn't that nice that you don't think menopause problems

are 'real' problems. All I need to do is ask my wife if she would like a solution to the hot flashes that have been plaguing her for the last few years to know better.

[LanternWaste]

44. I imagine many people conflate "problem" and "inconvenience"

I imagine many people conflate "problem" (a question involving doubt or uncertainty) and "inconvenience" (not suiting one's needs), which are actually, two wholly and separate concepts.

[riverwalker]

8. actually, it's liberating

hard to explain, but it is. I am regarded as a person now, not a "potential sex organ recipient".
Traveling solo, getting oil changes, consulting plumbers, kayaking trips, everything is easier now. One of the things that has been amazing to me, is all the benefits of being a non-sex object. And sales girls are soooo nice to me now that I am no longer a threat.
A trade off, but a nice one.

[Nay]

9. Indeed it is. I have never been so happy as when I passed over that threshold where I am

no longer eyeballed by men. It's such a relief.

[Voice for Peace]

14. omigod

"potential sex organ recipient"

this is so well said it made me cry.

[MadrasT]

15. To me it is not even a "trade off"

It is only a benefit

Appearance-wise I am just reaching the point where I am clearly middle aged and not "young and hot" and I FUCKING LOVE IT

Everything you describe has also been my experience and it rocks

[Sheldon Cooper]

16. Getting up into my fifites, along with a pretty hefty weight game,

removed me from the 'potential sex organ recipient' pool as well, and I have to say it is very liberating. I no longer get harassed by men, and on the rare occasion when men pay any attention to me, it's kind of nice because I don't have to determine their motives before responding. I can just assume that all they want is casual conversation with a stranger.

The funny thing is, if I want sex I have no trouble getting hooked up with some. Which only confirms that, even though men don't really pursue me anymore, they're more than happy to take it if I'm offering. Not sure what to make of that, but I guess it's amusing.

[JI7]

19. this is something women should be able to experience throughout their life

[ismnotwasm]

10. Bwahahaha

Oh my God, it's great to start the day out with a laugh.

Mate preference in early societies is also thought to have been judged on successful childbearing BTW, not nubile young virgins. Given the average life span of either gender was very short, I find this a very interesting--um-- thought process

[One_Life_To_Give]

25. Because for 40,00 years women routinely lived into the 60's and beyond?

As we evolved countless millenia ago on the African Savanna. Just how many lived long enough to experience menopause?

[redqueen]

26. Amazing, isn't it?

[WovenGems]

29. Bloody good

thing this thread isn't in the science forum or it would get ripped to shreds.

[d_r]

30. natural selection

one thing people forget - and I think these authors are a possible example of this - about natural selection is that "survival of the fittest" doesn't mean "survival to 100" or "survival to a good old age." It means "survival long enough to pass your genes to offspring who will live long enough to pass their genes to offspring and so on."

Our ancestors did not have the life expectancy we do today. So our genes are geared towards survival - in terms of passing on our genes - in a shorter life span.

So in our modern world, our biology sometimes betrays us. For example, teenagers want to have sex, but in modern society becoming a teen parent isn't optimal for completing school and getting a good job. In our culture, we do better if we wait to have children when we are older. But our biology is geared towards the optimum time physically to have children being probably late teens and early 20s. In our society we'd probably be better off in our late 30s or early 40s, but our bodies betray us.

[ismnotwasm]

32. It's the same kind of fallacy

That makes people think that evolution has a purpose, or some kind of end goal

[redqueen]

33. Yep. It's also why

'de-evolution' is a word.

[d_r]

39. yes

good point

[Politicalboi]

31. No, it's because they like younger women

Or they get them pregnant and marry them. And we all know how well that can work out. Shot gun weddings. We had one in our family, and my brother was the college educated guy too, also a Repuke.

[SheilaT]

35. Even if women were able to

bear children during their entire lifespan, without menopause women would die when their last children are very young. With menopause, there's a nice, long time to raise your youngest, perhaps help raise your grandchildren, and accumulate wisdom to pass on.

The same applies to men who live past the age of 40. While they can still father children essentially until the day they die, as they get older they're better off letting younger men hunt and procreate, while passing on their accumulated wisdom, perhaps teaching the young where a water hole was that they once passed by 50 years earlier.

I'm thinking that if these men are actually right, then there would remain a subset of women who would continue childbearing (or at least the potential as indicated by still having their periods) into their sixties and seventies. Or longer. In any case, it strikes me as obvious to the most casual observer that this supposed evolutionary geneticist is wrong.

[Squinch]

36. I have just completed a scientific study with a number of other women. We have discovered

that men's preference for younger mates is an unintended consequence of the fact that women, at a certain point in their lives, wise up and say, "Oh, hell no. Make your own dinner, and while you're at it clean up all the stuff you just spilled on the floor."

So the men go off to find younger women who are still willing to do their laundry. And the older women say, "phew", pop a bag of popcorn into the microwave for dinner, and sit down and enjoy an episode of "Downton Abbey."

And are happy.

[niyad]

37. nearly spewed my coffe on this one!! please post it as a separate thread, so we can REC it!!

[eridani]

42. Or maybe it's nature's way of saying that grandmas are good for you

Since old people no longer reproduce, the fact that younger people are willing to keep feeding them indicates that accumulated wisdom benefits the whole group, and the kids know it.