I thought Skinner's answer to Bain in ATA was very good.

[sufrommich]

I thought it was positive and uplifting and I think he gets it. I get pissed at a lot of crap that goes on here,but I think he deserves kudos for his answer.

Bains question was very good too. Brava Bains!

[brucefan]

1. ??

[sufrommich]

2. Sorry,I shouldn't have assumed everybody

would know what I'm talking about,if you go to the Ask the Administrators forum,it's the question from Bainsbane.

[DURHAM D]

3. Did he state that DU has ZERO tolerance

for sexist and misogynist posts?

[sufrommich]

4. No,he didn't. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

8. Nope.

Still can't get past that barrier. It's still up to us to continue to patiently educate the ineducable, no matter what provocation gets thrown in our face. Skinner may think that those clowns are showing their asses, but no other group would be required to actually look at those ass displays. Only the women, still.

I have yet to hear him explain why a simple change to include sexism and misogyny can't be added to the TOS.

So yes, his reply today was better than I expected, but falls short of enough.

[BainsBane]

9. No, but I do think his response was thouthtful and helpful.

[Squinch]

10. I'm not impressed. His words are all very nice, but they do nothing to mitigate the fact that DU

has no stance as being against misogyny.

Instead, what he said was that he thinks that our frustration about the boys'-club nature of recent posts, and the disrespect we faced for voicing that frustration, has been useful because our answers were instructive to others.

If he posted the same kind of thing about African American or homosexual DUers, we would not be happy. For example, imagine if a group of DUers came out in support of the "religious objection" law in Arizona. Imagine then that homosexual DUers had to spend a few weeks arguing against those who support the law, and against people saying, "There's nothing wrong with a bakery saying they won't serve homosexual people." We would, rightfully, be pretty incensed.

Imagine then someone saying, "Yeah, well, but it's good that those people disrespect our members right here on DU, because then when our members fight back, we learn so much."

Sorry. As answers go, that pretty much sucks.

[BainsBane]

13. There actually is a lot of tolerance for racism on DU

which is why there are so few African American members here. I have also noticed more homophobia lately. I don't know if there is an actual increase or that I'm just starting to notice it. My sense is that some have watched the hostility toward people of color and feminists and have felt empowered to express their antipathy toward LGBT members and issues. I'm hoping this recent string of events regarding sexism will shift the pendulum back a bit.

[sufrommich]

14. Yes,there is. nt

[Squinch]

16. I know. I agree. But it's exactly what you say: some few feel empowered to express their

antipathy and hostility toward people of color and LGBT as well as feminists. So to say, "but when we put people through that, and they fight back, we learn a lot," is not a good answer, and it is frankly not sufficient to overcome the impression that hostility toward feminists, people of color and the LGBT community is tolerated.

[BainsBane]

17. I agree with that

and one poster has already interpreted it that way. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4569088

[Squinch]

18. I'm sure he's not alone.

[RBStevens]

19. Just read that link - thanks.

That's what that person took from it, basically *grow a thicker skin*. Like feminists and their allies haven't heard that one hundred million times before.

[BainsBane]

20. If I didn't have skin like a rhinocerous

I wouldn't be so vocal with my opinions. Women are well used to taking shit. At a certain point we say enough is enough.

[RBStevens]

21. Exactly! Damn but if women talk out loud and argue against

real anti-women crap they are just taking it personally or are weaklings. *It's the internet, what do you expect?*

The internet is not some divorced-from-reality thing, it's people's words and one has to assume that people's words convey their thoughts!

"Frustrating to read"?? Tell us about it.

[BainsBane]

24. "playing the vcitim"

That is a continual refrain by some. If you point to sexism or even female empowerment, you are "playing the victim." They think collaborating with misogynists keeps them from being victims. It's precisely the opposite. They are the classic examples of what French philosopher Louis Althusser calls interpellated subjects.

Althusser complicates the relationship between domination and subjugation by introducing the interpellation process, where individuals recognize themselves as subjects through ideology, thus illustrating how subjects can be complicit in their own domination. http://csmt.uchicago.edu/glossary2004/interpellation.htm

[seabeyond]

27. i thought so also when i was just huh, barely an adult. lol. then you grow up. nt

[seabeyond]

26. actually the internet allows empowerment for it to grow outside, in real life, i believe. so ya....

internet matters.

[Squinch]

22. And when I say I'm not impresed,

I DON'T mean your post, I just mean the answer you got.

I am glad you asked the question, and glad you asked it the way you did.

[seabeyond]

25. too surprising and such a supporter... lol, not. nt

[Whisp]

30. It makes it sound like hostility is actually good, in the end.

and a productive way to elevate discussion. Too bad some people get hurt by it, but what the hell in the end some rube may get educated. worth it!

:groan:

[seabeyond]

32. i do not think it is about the rube getting educated. these battle that we have to constantly have

seem to be about the greater good for those outside the actual battle. we are the performance art of it that educations.

yes.

it makes it hostile, insulting, challenging, tiring to all of us to continue be on show to continuing to create support thru education. and how long will any of us be willing to do this before we walk away. then????

it is the inherent unfairness in the situation, and the shrug of the shoulder to the unlevel playing field we create for women.

like in real life, like in the workforce, the minority has to perform a 110% to get 50% of the recognition.

[RBStevens]

33. +1

[geek tragedy]

44. some defenders of Russia really took a crap all over GLBT rights during Sochi

My favorite (and by 'favorite' I mean "most appalling&quot :

In actuality the LGBT loud approach at Russia during this Olympics has done more to help reignite the Cold War than Dick Cheney himself could have done. I bet the MIC is loving the LGBT community right now.

But it did give us the best MIRT message in a while:

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=170167&sub=trans

[seabeyond]

45. it is warped, those that want to place the blame on people because they have the courage, integrity,

ability to speak out.

[gollygee]

49. You might be noticing it more

I had a wake-up moment at some point when Number23 said something or another that made me see it here more, and since then I've noticed as much racism as sexism here, maybe even more actually. I think I was just focused on my issues before that and didn't notice before. But wow I notice now and it's pretty horrible.

[sufrommich]

52. All of it boils down to denial of privilege.

and fear of losing that privilege as if equality is a finite resource that is depleted every time it's shared.

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. THANK!!!!!! YOU!!!!!!

[seabeyond]

23. though blurry, i think hte importance of what he said was his line of acceptance. his personal line

like the door issue. not cute and quaint, just irritating.

seem like very little. but.... but listen and use to manipulate what he is saying and the position people think that he holds.

that is why all this could be very easy with rules, though we will not get it. it is still very valid what he put out today, in expressing some of his position.

and... honestly, i swear, the biggest thing... that should not be tough, was a basic respect in answering.

i think htat always matters.

[Squinch]

28. Well, yes. He did answer. There is that.

[DURHAM D]

42. Hi Squinch.

Here is a link to a conversation about this same issue we were having a year ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125517375

I posted it down thread for RBStevens but wanted to make sure you saw it as you are the only one in this thread who wasn't in that thread as well.

Don't hurt your head.

[Squinch]

47. I saw that, and I think I might have been remembering it as I was reading Skinner's response

to BainsBane. Thank you for the actual thread.

This squeamish refusal to simply put it into the TOS is very jarring. Instead we get this weasel-y workaround of "bigotry based on gender."

I am sure it is due to fears that, if they simply say, "We don't welcome misogyny," they'll have to accept some basic lines in the sand about exactly what constitutes misogyny. On many issues, like the recent spate of T&A postings, they have been very comfortable with the stance, "Well some of our members don't believe that IS misogyny." (Though, we might point out, some of those same members have defended things like child pornography. And were allowed to stay for a few more seasons.)

This hands-up, "We're not going there!" attitude is nothing less than support for a boys'-club mentality on their site.

Their non-statement is actually a very clear statement of a very strongly held position.

[MadrasT]

50. Exactly how I see it. n/t

[DonCoquixote]

53. sadly I agree

Now, there was a lot of wiggle room he had that would still allow a stance, for example:

We here at DU do not tolerate any sort of defamation or discrimination based on gender, race or creed, period. However, we will always take note that in the heat of arguments, people may demonize others as bigots because of their opinion. There are those who will paint any opposition to their point as bigotry, as issues like Israel/Palestine bring up. That is why when someone is called a bigot, or accusing someone of being a bigot, we will look at the facts, and ask people to prove their points based on logic and fact.

That would have made a firm stance, and also helped deal with the idiots on any side that wanted to use a phrase to say "ban them, they are a (insert word here).

[Whisp]

29. No he did not.

It comes down to the same thing all the time:

Would DUers be able to call African Americans or LGBT people the names they call women, or disrespect AA or LGBT the way women are disrespected here, would they be allowed to tell LGBT people to Change their lifestyle if they don't like being discriminated against?

I am not at all saying that it is glory and fair days here for everyone else, not at all, but no way an abuser(s) would be able to run with racist or bigoted threads and posts to the extent they can with women's issues.

Some think Skinner was being fair. He was not. He said the same old thing the same old way, again.

Bains did put her question forward extremely well but was dodged on the meat of it again.

[RBStevens]

31. I have gathered that there is some (a lot?) of

resistance over a long period of time to adding sexism/misogyny to the terms of service?

I just don't see how there could be resistance to such a simple thing. Why dance around it? Is it only women's issues that are too *subjective* to be included? Scratching my head.

[Squinch]

34. Lots of clicks in those long fights...

[seabeyond]

35. that is the one that makes me squint my eyes, look in the face of our reality we are being given. nt

[RBStevens]

38. I just re-read Skinner's response

more carefully and what I took away from it was *you're doing a good job, little lady, keep it up*.

You're right seabeyond, what happens when the women here get burnt out "educating" in lengthy (click producing, $$ generating) threads and leave? Or worse fleeing a hostile environment because someone/s has called you a liar when you describe your rape/s.

[DURHAM D]

37. Yes. Here is a link to an OP from almost a year ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125517375

You will notice it is the same questions and the same posters and the same disappointment.

[RBStevens]

39. Thank you - started reading through it

and will finish it later.

This is (to put it mildly and to avoid swearing!) ridiculous.

[sufrommich]

46. That was depressing to read,I forgot

all about that,I remember Whisp was treated like an annoying child though.JTFrog even got a bullshit hide out of it.Apparently this is going to be an annual event.It's like being on a treadmill,it's good exercise but you aren't really going anywhere.

[Squinch]

57. "Good exercise but you aren't really going anywhere"

Very true!

[BainsBane]

68. Is not the support from the broader DU community new?

The threads with hundreds of recommendations? I think one positive thing that came out of all this is that it exposed the lie than only a small group of fringe feminists see and care about sexism on DU.

[Whisp]

60. There was a huge thread in META then taken over to Welcome & Help

I think Gormy Cuss started the W&H thread which mushroomed into a large conversation about sexism on DU,--
but without Skinner. No one from admin took the META thread seriously enough to comment so we packed up and went to W&H, with hope that would be a better place. but no, screw off and shut up, I ain't talking to you, was the message.

That was a horrible thing to witness, we, hats in hand coming to the master so he can hear our grievances. But he didn't even show up once (as I recall) in that thread. Not even a, I am sorry you feel like that and I will do what I can to make things better for your stay here. Even that would have helped. But no, Nada. And the troublesome boys in the background were most likely squealing in delight at our humiliation.

Nothing. Nada. And where do I hear this phrase all the time: In Good Faith?

We were there In Good Faith - as I recall most posts were very cordial and reasonable in wanting some answers. Gormy set the tone for that.

So yeh, same shit, different pile.

[seabeyond]

61. huge thread in meta coinciding with gormy's. with all our mess, we were totally united in solidarity

yes

i remember

[BainsBane]

5. Here is the link

For those who haven't seen it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595087

[sufrommich]

6. Thanks Bain. I'm not on my computer

and couldn't post a link.

[wryter2000]

7. This is very good to see

It's also been wonderful to read posts like Bjorn Against's.

[cinnabonbon]

77. Thanks for the link. nt

[CTyankee]

11. yes, but by the metric that Skinner sets, he would deprive the DU community from discussions

about racist comments, for example, by not allowing further discussion.

However, we are where we are and he has been more forthcoming in his thinking with this response. I hope this bodes well for the future.

And I will join you for a Brava to Bains!

[UtahLib]

12. I'm encouraged by his reply.

I would like to see it posted as an announcement so as to prevent people from claiming ignorance.

[redqueen]

15. Thanks for mentioning it,

and thanks to Bain for posting it, and the link too


I agree that on the whole, DU commentary is better than those other sites... but there are a good few here who would fit in very well in... let's just say certain types of forums, IYKWIM.

[gaspee]

36. Frustrating

I'm sick of trying to explain things to people who play stupid on purpose to frustrate and antagonize.

And I think that's all I will say about it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

40. $exism.

[seabeyond]

41. but $ee, it i$ alway$ at the expen$e of the woman to get that $. ya know. nt

[ismnotwasm]

43. I think Skinner is trying to allow the site to regulate itself

In a direct Democratic manner. I don't think he'll allow it to devolve to pornhub shorts in video. Didn't he have a daughter a few years back?

That being said, DU does represent a larger community. There are plenty of sexist male liberals, clueless women who don't understand that you can't 'choose' to be objectified. They're out there. They want to talk about chained CPI and trade agreements-- as though gender should take a back burner. We all pick our own battles.

I will say though, since I recently started Facebook I've had to get rid of a couple of people, including my brother-in Law for racism. I have one friend, a tattoo artist who constantly posts pictures of beautiful, tattooed women-- all objectified, Who tends toward the conservative-- and just when I have my finger on the button he'll post something beautiful and life affirming. It's weird to find out you know conservatives

My liberal friends "get" issues like sexism and sex slavery and rape and racism and Gay rights , way better than DU does sometimes, but I haven't brought up specific issues like pornography yet. It will be interesting when I do

[A-Schwarzenegger]

48. I just gotta say

I admire you a lot, and your almost always calm, hopeful & good-hearted attitude toward all this crap. Do you have some sort of wisdom practice or something that you do?

[ismnotwasm]

55. Naw. Just had a rough background that rose out of the ashes from

And I realize that most people live, on some level in fear or desperation. They want to be heard, a lot of what we deal with is "look at me" look at me" from the ego damaged.

Plus I'm a nurse. We're smooth at calm like that

[A-Schwarzenegger]

56. Thanks for this reminder:

"And I realize that most people live, on some level in fear or desperation. They want to be heard, a lot of what we deal with is "look at me" look at me" from the ego damaged."

That is hard for me to remember when confronted with people who seem so smugly certain of what they're saying no matter how wrong and even cruel they seem. But it is the truth that will let me see through the bs & not want to hurt back & not just toxify myself. When I lose my sense of humor (which includes for me lightheartedness, compassion, mercy), I'm lost.

[ismnotwasm]

62. +1

[RBStevens]

54. Ismnotwasm - with all due respect

"I don't think he'll allow it to devolve to pornhub shorts in video." is really selling the hard work that the women (and growing number of men) are doing here.

That you don't think that Admin will let this space become just another porn site (because he has a daughter? lots of porn site administrators have daughters, Larry Flynnt has at least one daughter) is great, but shouldn't or couldn't this place be held to a higher standard rather easily?

And as to those who have *other* political priorities that's all fine and dandy but blatant sexism and misogyny really should have no place here or anywhere.

[ismnotwasm]

58. I've read his replies

And while he won't take that final step and define sexist language, he himself may not know how insidious it is. Or maybe he is afraid he'd lose income-- but I think he'd actually attract income once some of the trash is taken out. I can't recommend DU to my friends, for instance, although I'd love for them to join our little group. Between the libertarian infestation and the blatant sexism, I don't even tell people the name of the site-- how sad is that?

I've talked to door to door political democracy activists who just shrug when they hear the name. I've met active users of Dailykos who had no respect for a community I've been apart of for ten years.

I just think Skinner does the best he can with what he's got. He's very aware that shining stars like Nancy Greggs found elsewhere to post and consider this an Obama hate site.

I would love to see it held to a higher standard, but we're dealing with a lot of people who think it's what goes on is ok, or not even sexist. In other words Skinner is attempting to keep a big tent, while sacrificing some of the sites integrity. That's why I keep saying DU is falling behind, oh, not at the level of certain redditt sites, but it's certainly less than it could be for a small community site.

The ones with 'other' political priorities tend to be prolific posters, who will toss a bone at gender issues when they feel like it. But they won't support it. And then there's the trolls-- my God. The trolls. They hide until it's time to stir the shit. And the MRA's. I still think it's funny they won't come out and identify themselves as such- Wait, maybe because they're considered a hate group
So I guess I feel a little sorry for Skinner. I was nearly out of here when I found out that 'pro-life' positions are acceptable here, because they are not inimical to Democratic values. I still might leave over that one.

All these words to say I think he means well, he just fucks up on occasion

[RBStevens]

59. Thanks for your reply :)

I do appreciate your hopefulness that he/admin mean well. And I agree that the site would be better served by extending that big tent over feminists and their allies instead of just offering the same old tattered umbrella that it seems he's been offering for at least a year.

It would just be so simple to put some better wording into the terms (as a starting place anyway) that it's just baffling to me.

Anyway, thanks again.

[nomorenomore08]

90. I second A-Schwarz's post. And I think it's a shame HoF gets such a bad rap.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. Skinner missed his calling

As a Diplomat

[DURHAM D]

65. Hey you

Stop insulting diplomats.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

66. LOL

Perhaps he should apply for The Negotiator ...

[hlthe2b]

64. It was a good and thoughtful exchange...

I think between the numerous highly recommended and discussed posts by a number of very eloquent posters in GD and HOF accompanied by the ATA questions by Bain and Bjorn Against, we've made some inroads..

That said, I am admittedly in the camp that was hoping/expecting for more from Skinner (e.g., zero tolerance for misogyny), but I guess it is a start. Those who want to keep on behaving as they are, though, can readily construe what they want from his failure to take an absolute stand. sigh...

When I originally posted this, I was trying hard to see the optimism... I still am, but as others have posted where we were a year ago and how short we fall from any real change, it is hard....

But all of us deserve better and I can't see any of us backing down.

[BainsBane]

67. Regarding raising awareness and "education."

When Skinner talked about how we were succeeding in raising awareness about objectification and sexism, I think it's quite possible he may have been referring, in part, to himself. I and others have asked questions in ATA about sexism in the past and gotten cursory answers that skirt the issue or, more often, have had our questions ignored. I actually didn't expect he would answer this one either, but he did. I noted more thoughtfulness and respect in that response than in many others on the subject, so while I agree that I would like a firmer line in the sand regarding misogyny and sexism, I do believe this is a step forward.

It took me a bit of time to digest his response. Before reading it, I read a PM from Seabeyond talking about how encouraged she was by it. When I then read it, I had mixed reactions that reflects much of what has been said here, but thinking about it overall, I consider it encouraging.

As for the idea of educating people, I have mixed feelings. A number of posters use the term pejoratively against me in particular. Who are you to "educate," when in my mind all I've done is present my views with some evidence to support them. They are people who read everything feminists say through a lens of hostility and never make a minimal effort to understand the arguments. Skinner notes that there are many people who read but don't post, and we may be reaching them. I know I've received many, many PMs from people thanking me for speaking out. These are generally people who themselves are not comfortable being as assertive with their views as I am, but their PMs indicate that share many of the ideas I express. I know Sea receives similar PMs and others here may as well. Yet Bjorn Against's posts indicate that was most illuminating to him was how those hostile to feminism responded to those of us who raised concerns about the bikini threads. He, and I would assume others, came to understand that misogyny was a problem on DU because they witnessed posters ridiculing women in offensively sexist ways. In that sense, it seems we've been the objects through which misogyny is revealed rather than subjects educating others by sharing our perspectives. That has been an uncomfortable process. I hope it can have some lasting benefit.

[seabeyond]

69. i have been thinking also. though i agree with what is being said, here of late i have wondered

about skinners position. that simple. i am certainly not gonna battle while the person with voice is truly thinking it ought to be a man space. i think that is what was the most good for me in listening to skinner discuss some of his positions on the issue. it puts him more in line of the progressive dem that respect the feminist community that is a big part of our party, rather than the more libertarian man space environment.

i really do not expect skinner to throw in no sexism though would be easy enough to do. not when we had all that support way back when and he ignored.

but ya.... he reeled me back in with his answer

[DURHAM D]

70. The issue of equal rights for women has been a settled matter among Democrats

for almost half a century. It is not a settled matter on DU until the TOS is fixed.

After that line is drawn then you can "educate" others to see discrimination.

You can not argue against the 1964 Civil Rights Act or the 1965 Voting Rights Act on DU. You can not argue against civil rights... period. There is a line in the sand on DU. It is a black and white issue. However, there are still racist comments posted here and that is where education and awareness comes in. The posters who make racist comments will get schooled, shut down, and likely removed because DU has a zero tolerance policy against such bigotry.

You can not argue against equal rights for LGBT citizens. The admin have stated that if you argue against Marriage Equality you don't belong here. There is a line in the sand on DU. It is a black and white issue. Again, this is where education comes in... DU posters still need to help people see their prejudices and raise awareness but fortunately we have a starting point because of the zero tolerance policy.

But, you can come to DU and freely argue that women are not equal. You can argue against the Equal Rights Amendment. skinner has even stated that being anti-choice is okay on DU. You are welcome to advance the War on Women by reversing it and stating it is a War on Men, hence the Rand Paul supporters and MRAers that walk among us. These positions can be advanced on DU because the question remains as to whether or not women are actually equal. It is a gray area because DU does not have zero tolerance for bigotry directed at women.

"Education" and "arguments" only works for those among us who already believe that women are, or should be, equal but do not always see the discrimination. They are wanting and willing to learn; to put themselves in our place and see it through our eyes and be educated.

Meanwhile DU remains a safe haven for anti-female posters who don't believe women are equal because the TOS has a hole in it.

Close that hole and the education and raised awareness discussion can begin.

[seabeyond]

71. the take over of the third wave set it on its ears. clean up time.

" The issue of equal rights for women has been a settled matter among Democrats"

our young feminists are stepping up. educate. du, needs that education what feminists TODAY are saying. we are still in the past of third wave.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

72. Time to Move On and leave the ignorance/stupid behind. DU3 is behind the times when it should be

Leading The Way if it wants to stay true to it's Progressive Liberal agenda.

[seabeyond]

73. all that woman. you are so right on. ah ha..... i luv. simply fits perfectly in all that should

be. lol

and i have the wendy race her in texas. and i have a judge race of two women. one i know well, here in amarillo. an interesting time.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. indeed, we are living in interesting times, sea.

Life is Good so very good

[DURHAM D]

75. lol. Who is "we"? You got fleas?

I think what you are saying is "we" need to move forward to the New Second Wave.

[seabeyond]

76. pfffft, i would not be so arrogant to say it is the new second wave. how totally condescending that

would be. right along with a.... we were right and you were wrong?

no. that is no way to gain support.

i will stand with the young women that are speaking out. holding hands. with a huge smile on my face

[hlthe2b]

78. ^^this^^

While I'm pleased Skinner is engaging with us--something we've not seen in the past, DD underscores the core issue that has not been addressed...

[Squinch]

96. I just saw this. This is it, exactly!

That "hole" is, in itself, discrimination. You don't teach from within a discriminatory environment. You wouldn't go to a Bill O'Reilly rally to teach about racial tolerance, you wouldn't go to a fundamentalist Christian site to teach how to support LGBT marriage rights.

You can't expect to learn about women's rights in a community that refuses to state that misogyny is not acceptable to that community.

I am also dismayed that we are all giving Skinner a pat on the back simply because, though he usually ignores questions on feminist issues, this time he engaged in the discussion when asked directly. That's a table scrap.

[Squinch]

79. I hear what you are saying, and I AM encouraged that so many people came out and

stated their distaste for the boys club. That was a great positive about this.

I just can't help but think that part of the problem is that everywhere we go, there is still the attitude that these are arguable points. They shouldn't be arguable.

If there were just one place that we encountered in our daily travels where true progressive values were honored, where disrespect toward women, LGBT people, or people of color, was simply not tolerated, imagine how revolutionary that would be. If there were just one place with a low threshold for what was considered disrespectful to these groups, imagine how instructive it would be to see THAT in action.

But wishes are not horses, and you are right to point out the positives that did come from it.

[BainsBane]

80. Now they've moved on to African American members

Witness the threads in GD. Don't you dare mention white privilege. It hurts my feelings, and my ego is more important than your experiences of racism. They seek to deny privilege, yet in doing so make a stunning demonstration of how vast theirs is.

[seabeyond]

81. yup. nt

[MadrasT]

82. I don't know how anyone can deny white privilege.

You either have to have your head so far up your own ass you can't see, or it is pure trolling.

[MadrasT]

83. Jesus the whitesplaining going on is disgusting.

It is as bad or worse than as the misogynistic spew last week. And it is by and large the same damn crowd.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

[nomorenomore08]

92. They literally don't give a high-flying fuck about anyone but themselves. It's nauseating, really.

[Squinch]

97. And they can't imagine that anyone should be able to have a thought that doesn't revolve around them

Like two year olds.

[sufrommich]

84. I'm embarrassed for the idiots in those

threads. There sure are a lot of masks coming off around DU and what's exposed behind them is ugly as hell.

[seabeyond]

85. i went in and perused one very long thread. ok, didnt bother perusing much. the very

suggestion to ignore white privilege and YET talk discrimination is beyond absurd.

[nomorenomore08]

93. As if tiptoeing delicately around a complex and difficult issue accomplishes jack shit.

I have to assume that these people simply don't want racial issues discussed, period, but are trying to frame things in a more "politically correct" way so that they don't get banned.

[gollygee]

86. I just saw white privilege called

"white privilege theory."

They downgraded it to a theory I guess.

[BainsBane]

87. It frustrates me

that people like that even exist anymore let alone claim to be Democrats. Their sense of entitlement puts Mitt Romney to shame.

[nomorenomore08]

91. One particular OP just makes me want to straight-up smack the guy across the face.

I'm not a violent person normally, nor do I generally endorse or condone violent behavior, but we all have our limits...

[BainsBane]

95. I feel that way about a couple of them

I'm simply done talking to some of those people. At best, it's a waste of energy. It goes downhill from there.

[BainsBane]

88. I started a white privilege thread in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024577556

Simply saying I stand with the members of color of DU and object to the denial of white privilege.

[BainsBane]

89. Threads in GD today show that there is every bit as much tolerance

for racism as sexism on DU. I think what is happening is that since many of us are white, we haven't noticed the racism as much. It's there. I'm getting a lot of opposition to my thread that took the title verbatim from the one on objectification.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024577556

[nomorenomore08]

94. I think Skinner is well-intentioned, but he's still trying too hard to please everybody.

Sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand, y'know?