Eating out and open carry.

[redstatebluegirl]

My husband and I were at our favorite steak house the other night for dinner. We went after a movie so it was a late dinner and the steakhouse was not busy. We sat in our favorite section with our favorite waiter. We ordered dinner, got our glasses of wine and then noticed a very intoxicated man at the bar. He had a large gun in a holster at his hip. He kept patting it like a security blanket. The waiter told us it was a Glock (sp).

He got very loud and seemed very agitated. I became more and more uncomfortable. Finally I told my husband I couldn't sit there any longer. We left our waiter 20 dollars, left enough for our meal which had not yet arrived and left. The owner stopped us at the door and asked what was wrong, we told him. He told us there was nothing he could do that would not make the situation worse. He said he if got any louder he would call the police to deal with him. My husband told him we would not be back.

I'm sure our business doesn't mean much, this guy was very well dressed and identified himself as working for a large company that pretty much owns OKC. It does annoy me that at some point we will be staying home, locked inside afraid to go out.

I really don't get it. Was there more we could have done? The law here says they can open carry.

[catrose]

1. Can the business post a sign saying that you can't bring weapons on their property?

That's what businesses in my state do, but of course laws differ from state to state.

Good on you for leaving and telling the mgr why.

[Glorfindel]

2. In Mississippi the law says businesses can post "No Weapons on Premises" signs

or something similar. I don't know what the law is in other states. You did exactly what I would have done. It stinks that some obnoxious jerk was able to ruin your evening.

[CanonRay]

3. Good for you for leaving...everyone needs to do that

and these businesses will get the message.

[indie9197]

4. The guy was breaking the law and committing a felony

in some states. He may have legally carried it there depending on if the place is more of a restaurant than a bar but you definitely cannot be under the influence if you are carrying open or concealed. I would have called the cops and watched the show.

http://www.usacarry.com/oklahoma_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

[Not Me]

5. You did exactly the right thing.

I have already decided that if I am ever in an establishment and see people brandishing guns, I am heading for the door.
And I will communicate with the management (then, or after I have safely left the building) my reasons.

[louis-t]

6. I just heard that Target profits are way down.

I wonder if it has anything to do with their open carry policy. Even if they changed it by now, it could have hurt their bottom line.

[Paladin]

7. Let's have a little moment of clarity, shall we?

You and your husband felt compelled to leave a steakhouse without a meal, because there was an openly-armed drunk at the bar, putting you in fear of your personal safety, and the restaurant manager informed you that there was nothing to be done about it.

Life (or what passes for it) in the United States Of America, circa 2014.

[redstatebluegirl]

12. Here in Oklahoma it is so normal we are in the minority.

This was the first time I felt unsafe. I see it in Walmart and other big box stores but not with a person who I felt was angry and impaired. I am really careful speaking my mind about guns down here.

[Paladin]

14. Pro-gun militancy has devolved into a full-scale terroristic movement in this country.

That is exactly how we need to portray it to the general public. Best of luck to you.

[flamin lib]

8. What you did will make a difference.

My local grocery store had a Duck Dynasty sunglass stand on display. I complained to management saying that I was offended that they would sell merchandize for a bigoted racist and homophobic fake reality show. The display is gone.

You did the right thing. I'd have tipped the waiter and walked the tab myself.

[jimmy the one]

9. everything right, but might I add?

RSB girl: We ordered dinner, got our glasses of wine and then noticed a very intoxicated man at the bar. He had a large gun in a holster at his hip. He kept patting it like a security blanket. The waiter told us it was a Glock (sp).
He got very loud and seemed very agitated. I became more and more uncomfortable. Finally I told my husband I couldn't sit there any longer. We left our waiter 20 dollars, left enough for our meal which had not yet arrived and left

You spelled glock correctly, you did the right thing except $20 a bit much, & did about all a reasonable person could do.

Well, except maybe: http://www.bulletproofme.com/Bullet_proof_Vests_Catalog.shtml

and reviews: http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

Police Surplus Body Armor $ 160 & up 11-Year-Old Vest -How Good is Police Surplus? In concealable, police-style 'bullet proof' vests (or more correctly bullet-resistant vests) we offer a superb value in Police Surplus vests: Previously Worn, Refurbished, Like New and Brand-New Condition police contract overruns...
Not "cheap imported vests on sale" but U.S.-made vests that are in good condition, inexpensive, ready to wear, and a great value. Police Departments are legally obligated to only use vests under warranty with an insurance policy - so even though a 5 year old vest is typically still perfectly serviceable, they are retired.
"Old Armor Tests as Good as New" according to NIJ research on 10 year old USED armor.

..firsthand accounts of those who have survived a shooting at the IACP / DuPont Kevlar Survivors Club...
"...as of January 1, 2001, a total of 2,500 "saves" have been attributed to the use of body armor.
58% of these saves were connected with felonious assaults and 42% with accidents, such as car crashes.
40% of the felonious assaults involved firearms, 12% represented cutting or slashing assaults, and 6% involved other types of assaults."
The National Institute of Justice has a rating system for body armor. As you add layers of a ballistic fiber, such as Aramid fiber, you add protection.
Vests are tested not just for stopping penetration, but also for blunt trauma protection – the blow suffered by the body from the bullet's impact on the vest.

I actually got one of these about 10 years ago for about the same price $180, a level IIA with 16 layers Kevlar, not really that much, better one is 22 layers. They come with a hard ceramic/metal 'rifle plate' which fits in a pocket around the heart area. The rifle plate I removed cause it sets off metal detectors too much.

No I'm not a bpv salesman, & where are you Bill??????

[Squinch]

10. Is this supposed to be funny? It isn't.

[Paladin]

15. What the fuck is your problem?

We have met the enemy, and he is you......

[jimmy the one]

17. et tu brutes

paladin: We have met the enemy, and he is you......

et tu paladin? not familiar with squinch, but you I considered a staunch ally;
.. a bulletproof vest is indeed a viable solution if states enable open carry of handguns & rifles & assault rifles. What else is there if & when one starts ablazing, at least it's a passive precautionary that doesn't endanger others or yourself.

I ask the reverse of your criticism, WTF is the problem with my suggestion?

[Paladin]

18. You started out your post by complimenting someone on being able to spell "glock".....

...and then segued into a sweaty endorsement of bulletproof vests (links included) as the last refuge of those under siege in the Gun Culture---and then you jump my ass for asking you to explain yourself? What clue did you give that you weren't a pro-gun activist? Advising gun control advocates to get bulletproof vests isn't as bad as telling potential rape victims they ought to lay back and enjoy it---but it's the same sort of insulting capitulation message, and I don't believe it has a place in this group.

[jimmy the one]

19. we are on the same side you know

paladin: You started out your post by complimenting someone on being able to spell "glock".....

Right I did, because she noted she was unsure whether she spelled it correctly in OP:
.... The waiter told us it was a Glock (sp).

That is why I told her she spelled it correctly. Even sarah brady knows how to spell it, not a sign of gun proficiency (tho I do have some).

What clue did you give that you weren't a pro-gun activist?

You never met me before? I asked where bill was, & I still wonder.

paladin: Advising gun control advocates to get bulletproof vests isn't as bad as telling potential rape victims they ought to lay back and enjoy it---but it's the same sort of insulting capitulation message, and I don't believe it has a place in this group.

C'mon, you're exaggerating for effect: In the wake of more school shootings, parents are purchasing their children bulletproof backpacks, and some schools are stocking up on items such as bulletproof whiteboards and blankets... . Makers of defense items for school-age children say business is booming... said whenever there is a random act of violence they see a surge in sales. Companies such as Mighty Mojo, ProTecht, BulletBlocker and BodyGuard, to name a few, try to balance keeping children safe and making a profit http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/bulletproof-backpacks-and-blankets-among-new-school-supplies/#Rysj4u0FJkUKkXIM.99

I suppose you get some help from this one, the british have them too: Slash-proof vests and bullet-proof back packs for students – what a sad state of affairs. The slash-proof hoodies are the brain child of a British firm specializing in protective clothing for security and police forces...
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2008/01/20/slash-proof-vests-and-bullet-proof-back-packs-for-students-what-a-sad-state-of-affairs/#sthash.O3z4oWfh.dpuf-

paladin: ...and then segued into a sweaty endorsement of bulletproof vests (links included) as the last refuge of those under siege in the Gun Culture---

I stand by that endorsement, since it may very well be our last resort as adults (& school children per above) against open carry gunnuts & a gun lobby insistent upon such weak firearm controls. What would you think the last resort? an appeal to congress for congressional action?
C'mon man, we're on the same side, this is a silly argument.

[Paladin]

20. OK, since we're on the same side, here's what to do with those vests:

Start by buying about 10 of them. Set up a booth outside a restaurant and/or bar that's catering to the open carry trade. Announce to potential patrons as they enter that there may be open carry types already in the place, and offer to let people wear the vests for protection while at the establishment and then return them when they leave (take drivers license info from the users to ensure orderly recovery of the vests). Arrange for every media outlet possible to be aware of what you're doing and for them to be on-site, in advance, to interview and film the vest-wearing patrons. Have spotters to identify potential patrons who decide not to go in the place, due to their aversion to open carry dangers, and have the media interview these people and broadcast their misgivings. Repeat as needed, over and over and over again. Pray to God you don't get shot in the process. If you are killed by an open carrier, have the service at the National Cathedral in D.C. with Gabby Giffords delivering the eulogy. World without end, amen.

[Starboard Tack]

11. Not drunk, they can't. You should've called the cops.

And not paid $20 if the mgr refused to call the cops. Don't reward restaurants for allowing drunks to carry.
That said, your best move was to leave. You might want to consider leaving OK, or the US. It's a much nicer world beyond your shores.

[redstatebluegirl]

13. I didn't reward the restaurant, I didn't feel it was right to stiff the waiter who we knew well.

Below minimum wage employees shouldn't bear the brunt of stupid management decisions. Leaving OK is not an option at this point, we need the job my husband has. It isn't as bad in certain areas of OK we live in a College town so it is ok.

[Starboard Tack]

16. Fair enough. I feel for you.

Stay safe.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

21. You made your choice as a customer

Hopefully this place realizes who the problem is.