A friend sent me this opinion piece. It made me pause. How would you respond?

[JudyM]

So I decided a couple of months ago that I'm in Bernie's camp and have been talking him up at every opportunity. I'm not a Hillary hater, I just think Bernie is authentically about real reform in areas that are most important to me.

Saturday an old politically-passionate friend and I were catching up and she was surprised that I'm feelin the Bern. We had a good back and forth about the pros and cons of each candidate and I told her some things she didn't know about both of them (thanks, DU!).

Bottom line is that she likes him, but doubts he can win in the GE and also questions how he will be able to administratively, pragmatically, get his reforms to happen with this divided congress.
I don't think Bernie's going to encounter raving lunatic opposition in congress the way Hillary will, not because of policy differences but because she is so vilified and politicized. She asked me how successful Bernie has been getting bills passed and I had to confess I hadn't read up on that issue.

Today she sent me this opinion piece that again questions how Bernie will get his agenda enacted:
http://bottlemagazine.com/2016/01/19/on-hillary-and-bernie/
From a nuts and bolts pragmatic perspective, what is his game plan and record for enactment/ implementation if you know? I haven't seen enough substance to really know.

[retrowire]

1. i want you to send your friend this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511030951

it's an explainer of how he will get things done. the answer in short is... not alone.

I hope more Bernie supporters cone in here with answers for you!

[JudyM]

8. Thank you, I did read this when you posted it.

And it's an important line of thought and a great motivator to GOTV.

Does this mean, though, that he will not be able to be effective unless his coat tails carry congress in November? If so, that makes his campaign more of a pure win-or-lose proposition based on an extra variable besides just his own election. Which unfortunately reduces its practical likelihood.

I think there's unfortunately a greater likelihood that congress will still be contentious if he gets in. There's still a powerful populist movement on the Right, so even if he has coattails it's not going to be easy. Plus look at Obama's first term... Can't just assume legislation will slide right on through.

[Lage Nom Ai]

13. Clinton

Is hated by the Republicans and the Tea Party for taking away their moderates. What makes this op writer and your friend think she will get anything through? If she does she will have to deal or give things away, what would she give away? The Iran treaty, the Presidents executive orders on guns, the Keystone pipeline, the TPP, gay marriage, social security, peace? A win by either is not going to open the sky to some great Liberal reform but a vote for a Liberal will get us moving in the right direction for a Liberal future and not this middle - right crap we have currently.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Ah yes, that line

First of all, it rests on the assumption that Bernie won't have "coat tails," i.e. that people who vote for him will then turn around and vote for Republican Congresscritters. Remember that the entire House and 1/3 of the Senate is up for re-election this year.

Second, Bernie has been in Congress, first in the House and then in the Senate, since 1990. He knows how Washington works. He's not Jimmy Carter, coming in and naively planning to reform Washington without knowing which butts he needs to kiss to get anything done or who is going to need the "gloves off" treatment.

[JudyM]

9. We can't assume coat tails as a necessity because they might not be long enough.

I mean, wow, what a dream if he gets them, but have to look at what happens if he doesnt't, right?

And yeah, he knows better than most how congress works but has he been effective at getting his bills through?

[phantom power]

3. How is HRC going to "get her agenda enacted" ?

Contrary to certain straw-man arguments, everybody understands that only congress can pass laws, and congress is likely to be hostile to a Democratic president. Note this also will apply to HRC.

My opinion on this is that the presidency is also partly about setting the tone, and moving the Overton window. Which candidate is going to set the tone that I most approve of, and move the Overton window in the direction I most would like to see?

[JudyM]

10. Or which is most likely to affect the Overton window, itself, right?

If Hillary is working more within congress' relative comfort zone she might move the ball farther down the field than if Bernie offers them non-starters. Is he going to go whole hog or is he going to work it in palatable, passable pieces?

[smokey nj]

12. If Hillary's elected the only legislation that will be passed is watered-down bullshit that doesn't

really help anyone. I'd rather go with the person who's at least willing to try for something better.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. The difference is that Hillary will 'move the ball'

towards a Republican touchdown, if all she cares about is 'moving the ball'. If she wants to move the ball towards Dem ideas, she'll face easily as much opposition as Bernie would. Bernie won't just 'move the ball' for the sake of 'moving the ball'. He'll want to actually move it left.

[guillaumeb]

4. A good question. From one who is also "feeling the Bern", I have responded to people that:

when William Clinton was President, the GOP did everything they could, including years of an impeachment farce, to obstruct him. What was passed under Clinton was basically a GOP agenda. So called "welfare reform", and banking deregulation, and punitive prison policies were the Clinton legacy, as well as sanctions against Iraq that led to the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children.

For 7 years, the GOP has absolutely refused to work with President Obama. They have used naked racism, and obstructionism, a 3 day work week in the House, and anything they could do to tarnish his presidency.

Given this, it is obvious that the GOP will only work with Democrats when Democrats propose GOP positions. The veto is the only tool Obama has at this point.

So why then vote at all? Do we, as Democrats, concede that we can do nothing, or do we try to motivate voters, possibly for 2 or 3 election cycles, until the Democrats control the Congress?


As to the choice of candidates, I feel that Sanders is more progressive, and I also feel that he will motivate younger voters. This motivation of younger voters is why Obama was elected. It was young voters of all colors who made the difference. And these same young voters can make the difference again.

I hope this inspires.

Guillaume B

[Trajan]

5. This would be my answer ...

The congress is what the congress is .... It is a rat hole infested with members who administer to their campaign contributors while they ignore the needs of every day, regular families ... They have the lowest approval ratings EVER RECORDED ! ...

That is true whether Clinton or Sanders, or anybody else wins the Presidency ...

Now ... What WE as a nation truly need is a turnover in congress .... We need to sweep the halls of congress clean of the vermin who now inhabit it ... In order to do that, we need VOTER TURNOUT ... We need LOTS and LOTS of voters .... We need them to come out of the woodwork .... We need them to ignore their own cynicism and head to the polls .... These are people who simply don't vote ... We need them to vote if we expect to make a change in congress.

If we vote for Hillary .... Yes ... Hillary has some voters, and she may or may not win either the Primary and/or the General Elections .... Many honest brokers doubt there would be a groundswell of enthusiasm in the Hillary camp .... There is little evidence of any widespread group of inspired supporters in her column ....

Support for Bernie AND his stated proposals, on the other hand, is literally on fire ! .... The slope of his ascendancy is out of this world ... He gains followers quickly, and this would explain the huge gains he has seen in his poll numbers ....

Bernie supporters are VERY enthusiastic ... VERY motivated ... They are definitely inspired !....

So ... If we are looking for the candidate that has the BEST chance of causing a favorable turnover in Congress, then Bernie is HANDS DOWN the best possible chance ....

He is not asking for much more than a return to the SANE policies that our own parents and grandparents enjoyed during and after the FDR administration ... It's not a communist plot > It is rational PEOPLE FOCUSED policy that makes life better for regular citizens ....

It is in the regular citizens 'best interest' to vote for Bernie .... No doubt about it .... The status quo is not going to do this time around ....

[SoapBox]

6. Bernie has been very clear...he cannot do it alone.

He's just the start...we need to continue this campaign to take back the Senate and House.

The Senate only needs, was it, 4 seats turned back?

And if and only if Hill got into office...it would be 4 years of absolutely nothing getting done...and anything she were to get done, would be to our detriment.

[smokey nj]

7. The author of that article is a fucking idiot.

[JudyM]

18. That's the truth.

My friend must've read it too quickly and just thought it covered her concern. But jeez.

Though the point the author's making is clearly on the minds of a lot of dems.

[Dems to Win]

11. Here are 2 good articles about how Bernie HAS gotten things done

How Bernie Sanders Fought for Our Veterans
One of America’s biggest ideologues knows how to make a deal.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/how-bernie-sanders-fought-for-our-veterans-119708


GOP Officials Publicly Denounce Bernie Sanders’ Obamacare Expansion, Quietly Request Funding
https://theintercept.com/2015/07/06/gop-senators-support-sanders-obamacare-expansion/

[JudyM]

16. Thank you, these are both helpful, informative, and to the point of how he has gotten

proposals through congress. He is shrewd.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. From what I've seen, Bernie has restricted the ideas he's pushing to things that most Americans like

He's not throwing out every possible good policy, just ones that are good and actually have support from the people. I'm certainly hoping that in the general, he will devote resources to commercials that ask voters to support Dems at the Congressional level, to change the makeup of Congress to the point where he does have a shot at doing something beyond executive orders and appointments while in office. He does have a pretty good history of actually working with Republicans as well as Dems already to pass riders he's attached to bills, so he's certainly got a better shot at passing some things than a woman who flat out declared the Republicans her 'enemies' in one of the debates.

[JudyM]

17. Agreed. It'd be great if he could instigate a federal anti-gerrymandering bill. I know I'm dreaming.

[TBF]

19. Your friend's blog would be much loved in the Hillary group -

perhaps you should post it there?

Hillary has been a polarizing force her entire political career - from the days as first lady, as a short-term senator, to the appointment at State. Republicans will turn out in droves to vote against her and will push like hell in Congress to keep anything she supports from passing. Further I can't imagine anything she wants to pass as helpful for the working class - she has already indicated that she's in favor of moving jobs overseas (TPP), ongoing military engagement (comments re Iran), and supporting Wall Street ("I'm the Senator for Wall Street&quot .

Honestly it is just insulting to have to read that drivel.

[JudyM]

20. For anyone who's interested in seeing how my response came together, here is the main part:

(With thanks to all who helped with content!)

"Thanks, I read the article, and I get it, but it seems like an opinion piece ... she makes some significant, broad-brush assumptions without saying what she's basing her assumptions on. Like the point she makes about anticipating that he is going to try to unilaterally force through single payer ... Check out this article - to see how he has worked health care expansion through congress in the past (I think it's kind of inspiringly deft): https://theintercept.com/2015/07/06/gop-senators-support-sanders-obamacare-expansion/

Here's another article worth reading that'll give you some flavor of his approach: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/how-bernie-sanders-fought-for-our-veterans-119708

You mentioned you hadn't seen the polls showing he fares better vs the Repukes than Hillary,so here are running, aggregated results:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
and
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#2016-general-election

Also, re: the related core issue of turnout that I mentioned in relation to my concern that Hillary would inspire more haters to get off their butts to vote against her and that that could turn the election, check out her unfavorability vs Bernie (click to expand for more info):
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#favorability-ratings

Bernie has until recently been getting far less mainstream media coverage, and now that he's getting more, his ratings are going up. I don't think I mentioned, also, that if he were to win the GE, it seems he would have bigger coat tails than Hillary, meaning we'd have a better chance of taking back congressional seats. Supposition on my part, not stats.

On LGBT rights, it's not just that he voted vs DOMA, but he has a long history of outspokenly opposing homophobia (full equality and nondiscrimination even as part of his platform) going back to the early 70s when this was way outside the norm! http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Here's one clip from 20 years ago - '95 - going to bat for us:

He was pressing Obama to side with us in '11, etc. He's authentic and serious about it. Stark difference there with Hillary coming around a couple of years ago, when it became politically safe to do so.

He is a passionate feminist, as well. Gloria Steinem made him an honorary woman for a day, lol. Here's an article on Bernie and women's issues: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-gautney/bernie-sanders-womens-issues_b_8049572.html

His entire career has been focused on civil rights (Marched with MLK) and social justice."