Okay, I have a very real alert stalking problem and Things are worse than I thought, Updated!!!

[Dragonfli]

Now a Hillary Supporter is locking My threads in GDP as "off topic"
this one, where else would I post it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511963603

It also makes more sense to me now how my postal address wa so easily found as it was used to purchase a star less than a week prior to the offending letter. It is now clear I am most assuredly being "asked to leave", and it involves more than a few jerks in the Hillary group. Some are Hosts of the GDP group, one of whom locked a discussion about the candidates comparative records.
Which makes no sense, at least not ethically or by the terms of service of he group.

I have even received threats in my snail mail from those claiming to be "proud members of the DU Clinton group". That say "they can and will alert me off the site because of my far left views and attacks on Clinton". I am not far left, I know that, and I do not believe I am guilty of "attacking" Clinton, I believe I simply reveal things about her and her differences with Democratic values and disagree vehemently with some of her more deadly policies. (many of you have read enough of my posts over the past dozen years to judge this for yourselves).

I also believe that doing such things are one of the purposes of discussing politics on a political website, else we might as well debate the differing methods used to bake cookies. I have never gone after her personally and have only gone after her policies which I believe are fair game.

The fact that they know my addy really does not bother me, many people know it, as I have never been very frightened about revealing myself online and am easy to find, many of you already know, but my IRL name is Dennis M Wilson and I reside on the southeast side of Buffalo NY.

I have even received some fan mail from online people that I never gave my address to, so finding me is easy, with a paid membership in one of those places that does that sort of thing.

I have nothing to fear at home because I literally have nothing of value and even my life is of extremely little value to me since my wife died, and my health sucks anyway.

The part I am worried about is losing my voice here, I don't, and would never resort to signing up under another name anywhere, ever, it is a matter of honor to me (it would be easy enough as IP spoofing is child's play, I simply would never do it).

The help I need from you guys is very simple, PM me in order of most likely to alert stalk among that group from worst to least likely in that order, I have ten open slots on my alert block list, I would also like if possible for someone to clarify for me that those on ignore can not alert on me, (I have this idea they can't, because I know the admins once said one cannot alert on those on one's ignore list so I just assume it goes both ways, but do not know for sure and ask the admins could take several months if ever before I get a reply).

It is getting very bad these past few weeks, I have received moe hides these last weeks than I have in at lest 8 years prior combined. I also received several heads up via PM regarding a great many more unsuccessful attempts, and I wonder how many attempts I never hear about.

If you believe I have earned such treatment then so be it, perhaps I do, but if you believe this unfair, let me know, and help as best you can.

Sincerely,
Denny

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Email the admins with the info

...and post in AtA (w/o details of who it is). NO ONE should be threatened on or outside of DU!

[Dragonfli]

4. Every time I have tried that I am either ignored or simply have to wait far to long for it to help.

[Cooley Hurd]

6. Try both DU mail and AtA. It's THAT important that you're safe.

[Baobab]

42. Can you remember what posts they hid on- was it anything important you were saying?

For example, the link in my sig it seems some people want to hide. Anything like that?

[yourpaljoey]

2. Wish I could help. I put them on Ignore immediately so I would not know one from the other

You posts are well-thought out, well written and always a joy to read, by the way.

[Raster]

3. Bless your heart!

You are NOT at fault. You have NOT earned mistreatment. What you have earned, is admiration for your well-thought postings and your courage of convictions.

[TBF]

5. My honest guess is that this is not Clinton supporters -

at least not the ones you're thinking. There is a website called Conservative Cave and they have stalked folks here (esp if they can figure out their real life names). It I were you I'd send those emails straight to Skinner or EarlG and see if there is anything they can do on their end. I believe you can also report such things to a local police department and I would encourage you to do that. No one deserves this kind of treatment.

[dreamnightwind]

11. LOL

Dragonfli makes excellent posts, among other things they're often about the problems caused by third way Democrats, especially the Clintons. The CC folk you are trying to deflect blame to would probably welcome Dragonfli's posts. Take a look at who benefits, who feels threatened, and all will be clear.

[TBF]

14. I'm not trying to "deflect" anything -

I was thinking about who usually does this sort of thing (going all the way back to Andy). Believe me I am no friend to third way and will not be voting for Secretary Clinton should she be successful in stealing the nomination from Bernie.

[dreamnightwind]

19. OK, sorry, why though would this look like CC to you?

Seems to me to clearly point to our side of the fence, such as it is.

[TBF]

28. History

Andy, Steve, there have been others. But you guys are correct that this primary is especially bad (and with Brock at the helm I guess I shouldn't be surprised). Sad though to see it devolve to this.

[dreamnightwind]

32. CC messed with them for opposing the corporatist wing of our own party?

Seems unlikely at best.

[TBF]

64. Oh no - not that specific

just that they've messed with people before on here.

[caquillo]

80. "should she be successful in stealing the nomination from Bernie."

Uh, leading by nearly 300 pledged delegates and 3 million votes does not constitute cheating. Rather, what Sanders wants to do (i.e. trying to get the superdelegates to switch to him, even though he doesn't have the majority of pledged delegates and popular vote) is more like cheating.

[myrna minx]

81. Welcome to DU. This is the Bernie Sanders group, not the David Brock group.

[caquillo]

82. Oh

I apologize for my intrusion, then. I'm fairly new (within the past month), and I only started posting about two weeks ago. Anyway, this thread was linked in another forum, so I didn't realize it was from the Bernie Sanders board.

[pinebox]

112. Linked in another forum? As in here on DU?

Or outside DU?

[TBF]

107. If you want to go through every contest she has cheated in -

step by step I will do it with you. From the coin toss she wins every time, to Bill with the megaphone, to "losing" entire buildings in Brooklyn, to "whoopsie you're not registered". You want to go there then let's go. After all of this I would not want to be your candidate in the general election because people will NOT forget what you've done.

I have voted for every democratic nominee for president since 1992, and this time I'm hoping I will be voting for Bernie. Barring that I will change my affiliation to unaffiliated.

[Kittycat]

117. To getting more votes than people turning out to vote

In Baltimore, after tapes go missing. *surprise*

[magical thyme]

121. what constitutes cheating is voter suppression, electioneering,

buying superdelegates, throwing out ballots, ballots that don't include Sanders as a choice, hacking of voting systems, locking Sanders delegates out of caucuses.

Cheating is not *having* higher numbers; it's *how* one arrives at higher #s.

This time around, at least some of the cheating has been caught on video. It's the kind of behavior that has led Baltimore to de-certify its results.

[Dragonfli]

17. TBF is good people, I believe the post was sincere if mistaken. /nt

[Dragonfli]

13. I received a snail mail letter, not an email one, and I am aware of the Conservative Cave

I do not believe for a second it is them, because I rarely post OPs and they don't even have me on their radar (as they proudly do others).

Also, the alerts are coming from in house, and that means DU. The alerts are always sent after and regarding a discussion with a more rabid Clinton fan (unlike you, whom I know to be a civil and decent person and have never read anything remotely uncivil written by you).

You have some awfully nasty apples in your bushel, I certainly do not blame you, you are a good example to them all, but it is time to face the fact they exist, and they do things like alert stalk.

[TBF]

16. Ah, well if that's the case (re following particular discussions)

then you may be right. I'd still do the same thing. Send them to the admins on the off chance that they might do something and alert local authorities.

That really sucks.

[pinebox]

113. Personally I'd call the police

and let them handle it.

What exactly did the letter entail?

[riderinthestorm]

57. I was stalked in RL by a rabid DU Clinton supporter.

My personal info was shared all over.

I sent everything to the Admins who did nothing.

[davidpdx]

111. It doesn't surprise me in the least that they did nothing

Awhile back one Clinton supporter accused pretty much ALL Sanders supporters of being stalkers and the person said they was getting stalked both online and through letters in the mail. At about the same time that person was on a timeout because they had gotten too many hides by screaming verbal obscenities at people. I have no doubt the admins believed this person. Yet when it comes to a Sanders supporter getting stalked they couldn't give a rats ass.

[mopinko]

74. i was one of their pet projects for a while

dont think they have taken an interest in anything i have done lately, but they had a lot of fun w me when i was being sued over my farm.
and yeah, one of my neighborhood trolls is a member over there, so lots of my personal info has been shared over there.

[Maedhros]

7. If they threaten you through the U.S. Mail, that is a Federal crime and should be reported. [n/t]

[slipslidingaway]

9. +100 nt

[Dragonfli]

20. I got royally pissed off and tossed it in the garbage (thew same bin I put the dog poop in )

I should have thought better at the time and saved it or else at least scanned it, there was no return address, but had I been thinking clearly I would have realized the Feds might have been able to work miracles with just the stamp and it's stampover thingy.

I wish I did not let my anger get in the way of common sense,

I didn't and do not care about any home visits because I have nothing of value including my life at this point, but never considered the person may have somehow gotten caught.

Not sure if a threat of online alert stalking rates the same as a threat of violence legally however (so a report may have simply led nowhere)

[Joob]

21. bingo

[ladyVet]

69. Absolutely report any snail mail issues to the postal authorities.

Federal crimes can mean big time prison sentences.

As to people here, block them. No messages, no responses to threads. Skinner and the mods should take care of the issue, but if they don't, at least put the people on ignore so you don't have to see it.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Definitely send to the administrators, you should not be receiving threats from anyone connected to

DU and the owners need to be aware.

I do not have anyone on ignore and do not know all the rules on who can or cannot serve on a jury, I do get called to jury duty fairly often and have had one post hidden recently in 12 years.

The old/older DU was more inclusive of those who do not always go along with anyone who has a D after their name, but it has changed IMHO.

Hang in there!

[Dragonfli]

29. I miss those days, now they want to herd cats, even thinking they can herd them into an Abattoir nt

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

10. Tell the scumbags you want to meet them in person....

....and that you will be in Delaware County, NY at a certain time and date.

Of course, it will not be you that meets them.

It will be me.



All the best.

Stay strong.

CFS

[Dragonfli]

22. Thanks brother, but there was no return address and in such a scenario I would have met them myself

I may not be n great health but I have not atrophied just yet and was one hell of a scraper and bully fighter in my day, I know a bit of martial arts and street arts and would give them one hell of a run!

I would have proudly had you there as my "second" in such a "duel" scenario however, who knows, if they had any guts, I own more than two katanas (now at at my sisters so my nephews can train). But it would have been fun to see just how far such a big mouth would have gone to prove one's honor!)

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

23. They don't want to fight.

Cowards never do.

All the best.

[Dragonfli]

30. Thanks, the no return address part sort of gave away their cowardice. /nt

[dreamnightwind]

12. You're one of the best posters on this site

I don't know who likely alerters are, hopefully others can help you there.

I'd suggest watching your phrasing and staying on the safe side of the line, to whatever extent you can while still getting the message out. Take care, we've lost a number of good posters and we'd hate to lose you.

[Dragonfli]

25. I have tried I only know of two that actually crossed the line in anger, and own those the rest well

you'd have to squint pretty hard to see them as hideable posts.

[dreamnightwind]

27. Yeah I get it, and good luck.

I think momentum is building towards more participation in institutions that are not run for the benefit of the elites.

This will likely manifest in online discussion groups (people leaving third way type boards like DKos and DU in favor of upstart progressive ones) and in party membership.

We'll see, lots of changes going on, but there is online life outside of DU, should the worst happen.

[LiberalArkie]

18. I was told just STFU a few months ago or I would be banned. I went quiet for awhile.

During that time I got an internet e-mail addressed to me subject STFU with a Google picture of my house. I don't give a shit any more. They are too chickenshit anyway.

I would say don't worry about it. I think they are sending out these threats to the older people hoping we will STFU about things in the past. The younger people think things have always been like they are now. We tell them nope they were not always like this.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

24. I used to tell my recruits....

"Never fight an old man."

"If he's too old to fight...."

"He'll just kill you."

[Dragonfli]

26. Good advice /nt

[Dragonfli]

31. One wonders if it was from the same person or sub/group of a certain group here. /nt

[LiberalArkie]

35. You know it was. I can't remember who else around the same time, be he was older also.

All they can do is ban us. Because if those people can't contribute to their candidate or take time for rallies, they sure will not contribute to DU when the time comes.

[Dragonfli]

43. You are talking to a card carrying member of a Wiccan Coven (except we don't have cards)

we call them "poppets", but are the same thing, I have met many a Vodun that play with dolls, (try putting them in the freezer, it calms the "model" the "doll" is fashioned after), add a little salt and you get a full on banishment err or so I am told.


Perhaps.

[Dragonfli]

53. The friend should know that witches do not proselytize, considering it to be extremely rude

She/he need only go to one of the many neo-pagan festivals that can e found online and meet people there that live close to them, get to know them well, and maybe, become friendly enough with them to ask if they can join (the initiation if done properly will both instill them with first fear, and then complete trust).
Hypothetically speaking.

[Duval]

91. Wow! A Google picture of your house?

This is disturbing and serious, IMO. Damn!

[LiberalArkie]

96. Who knows from where. I could have been chatting here or somewhere even about ham radio.

Who knows, there are way too many ways to find out where someone lives for me to worry about it any more. Most know I live in central Arkansas. There are a lot of people who just want to scare old farts.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

33. Stay strong, and stay safe Dragonfli.

You're one of the best around here.

[Dragonfli]

34. Thanks for the compliment, if this is a ham handed attempt to silence me it won't work

I don't intimidate too easily, it will more likely backfire on them!

Freedom's just another word for nothing else to lose.

[MelissaB]

36. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

I don't know what to say that hasn't been said.

Take care and be safe.

[sadoldgirl]

37. You write very thought through OPs, but

you and another very nice person are questioning the
whole development of the party, actually of both.

While I agree with your analysis, this might be just too
much insight for people, who profit from this development.

To them any foresight of where the whole system is going
appears to be dangerous; especially if it should catch on.

Unfortunately we have lost several people for similar reasons,
at least imo.

Lurk for a while, and then come back. That is the best
advice I can give you. And if you get angry while lurking
let it out in a different way, but, please not on the animals.

[Dragonfli]

40. I see and write about potential trends based on evidence, I also take lessons from history

I am no oracle and hope very deeply to be wrong about some of my projections regarding possible outcomes of well documented and well known trends.

Because the future is not cast in stone (even if some things appear close to inevitable), is it not important to forewarn potential outcomes that would be bad for all of us if we allow them to be realized?

I actually believe you are correct, and if that other poster is who I believe it to be, I can say with certainty that that poster is facing similar problems as I regarding hides and such.

I just hate that we have not evolved beyond the point where thoughtful consideration of how current actions will likely affect future outcomes, many of which can and should be avoided, are considered dangerous and in need of stonings or hemlock.

It leaves me feeling both depressed and impotent regarding my hoped for attempt at warnings and common sense avoidance of very serious issues.

I will take a couple days off to consider if I should give up trying for a better future, or resign myself to the fate of a good stoning followed by a goblet of hemlock to chase it down with for my troubles.

What has been haunting me lately are some images in my thought experiments (there are several different images that haunt my mind, but this one can be expressed visually because of my wife's gave it a physical image)

Her last piece of artwork before she died, it was drawn while she was sick and weak and could no longer go to the Iraq war protests with me during the Bush era, I stopped going to them after that, the second one she could not attend with me, to spend our remaining time together as we should)

[center]
[font size="1"]Artwork courtesy of the late Kim Wilson[/font][/center]

[sadoldgirl]

44. Great picture. Thanks.

Kafka is becoming reality, and not just in our
country, but globally.

That is much harder to fight than "1984",
yet fight we must.

[arikara]

70. Amazing piece of art.

The only thing Kim missed is that each person here in the grey doesn't take their eyes off their hand held screen. I guess that particular addiction wasn't so rampant when she was on this level of existence.

[Dragonfli]

73. You are right about that, we had cell phones of course, but not with all the eyes constantly glued

to the screens (they were smaller with very few apps, mostly things like calculators and such). They were used, at least around here as just phones - around 2005 2006. Not the permanent hand fixtures they are now.

Hell that wasn't very long ago but back then ignoring someone to take a call was considered rude, one would usually just hit the green button and say, "let me call you back, I'm in the middle of talking to someone right now".

These days it is almost the opposite, like, "you are being rude trying to speak to me, can't you see I'm in the middle of angry birds" or somesuch.


Depressing fact known only until now by the husband of the artist, when I asked her why she didn't draw a third conveyor belt to carry the war dead to a pit or something, she replied very uncharacteristically (being the cheery optimist that she was), " the "neoconbobulator", as she called it, "doesn't need one, all the dead it produces with it's meaningless war machine matrix uses the bodies as fuel and the blood as lubricant, all that is left over is the transformed remaining joyless people and the grey cloud of smoke projecting into the future from the burning of it's fuel".

It was not like anything I had ever heard her say, so I remember it most clearly and her eyes were swelling with tears as she said it, look closer at the drawing, you will see the smoke and where it is going.

[grasswire]

38. thanks for letting us know.

I agree with the sentiments of others about your continued thoughtfulness and wisdom.

[bkkyosemite]

41. Send the most threatening to Skinner!

[Dragonfli]

46. There was only one threat and it was sent as postage, I don't think it was actionable as the threat

was regarding "online alet stalking", I do not think that counts the same as a physical threat to the Feds. It was not signed accept as by "proud members of the DU Clinton group", and there was no return address, the real threat is the constant alerting on more posts than not (as far as I can tell via reports of others regarding the unsuccessful ones and of course the PMs informing me of the successful ones.

To be honest, because I am not a Clinton supporter, I don't think the admins will give so much as a quarter of a damn about my being alert stalked. I sometimes wonder if it is encouraged.

[bkkyosemite]

54. I do not think Skinner would allow attacks like you have had. Send an email to him

or a link to this OP and ask what he would suggest.

[Dragonfli]

55. He would likely suggest I support Hillary Clinton. /nt

[Dragonfli]

47. You're right that in their mixed up minds we are extreme leftists (far from true of course)

Their warning was brief but it confirmed that thought

"We can and will alert you off the site because of your far left views and attacks on Clinton

Sincerely - get the message,
proud members of the DU Clinton group"

If they manage to get me kicked out of here I will simply return home to JPR, clearly this site is becoming neoliberal/neocon only and will only be a matter of time before the TOS will be changed to reflect that new reality.

[Puglover]

85. Buh bye.

[cui bono]

108. Judging by their transparency page they are a complete asstroll.

That's what Skinner asked for, that's what he got. Asstrolls.

.

[truebrit71]

116. Who could have imagined that giving assholes amnesty would make them behave...

...less like the assholes they were when they went on timeout???

A truly brilliant move...

[Jim Lane]

48. What I can add about the rules

About the harassment, I can only join in what others have said: scorn for the miscreants, and solidarity with you.

You refer to your "alert block list" but AFAIK there's nothing called that so I assume you mean your jury blacklist -- the list of members who can't serve on the jury when someone alerts a post of yours. I don't think there's anything you can do to prevent anyone from alerting.

The Ignore function isn't a loophole here, as I understand it. If you have me on Ignore, then you'll never be called to jury one of my posts. That makes sense, because you've indicated that you don't want to read my drivel, so why should you have to read it to complete jury service.

You add that, if you have me on Ignore, you can't alert on my posts. I hadn't heard that before, but it also makes sense. If you alert on a post under those circumstances, there's at least a whiff of alert stalking. You must have gone out of your way to view this particular post of mine, presumably for no other reason than to alert it.

What I'm confident of, though, is that it does NOT work both ways, as you suggest. If you have me on Ignore, I can still read your posts, I can still alert on them, and I can still be called to jury them when someone else alerts. Remember that you have only a limited number of slots on your jury blacklist, but no limit on the number of people you ignore. You can put a few hundred people on Ignore (and some DUers do just that), but you can't stop them from serving on your juries. Otherwise, the limit on the number of jury blacklist slots would be meaningless. I also see no reason why, by putting me on Ignore, you should be able to prevent me from alerting on you.

For my part, I have no one on Ignore. I'll PM you with my current jury blacklist, although I haven't updated it recently.

[Dragonfli]

50. Thank you for the information, it is most helpful, and yes i did mean jury blacklist just spaced out

on the name.

I believe they intend to carry out their threat, luck of the draw and all that, if someone alerts on a post about the sky is blue and puppies are cute every time I post such a thing, hide worthy or not, the luck of the draw will get me eventually, especially if the alert group have members on the jury by the luck of that same draw.

I know what is to come, but all I can do is fill those 15 slots as best I can and take the bogus hides as they come.

That is not to say I am perfect and might (although rarely) post something worthy of being hidden, in cases like those, I will at lest have earned the punishment.

[arikara]

71. Good idea

I'll PM my blacklist too as I've been selective in picking them out. Not added any who have 0 or little chance of serving anyhow. But I have to go to work and won't be able to do it for a few hours.

[MadDAsHell]

51. DUs a real quality place these days. Admins should be proud. nt

[bjo59]

56. Wow. I love your posts. I have not been on here long and your posts stood out immediately for me.

I really look forward to coming across your posts. I really don't get this "hiding" and "alerting" and "kicking out" business. That's because I have no history here. However, it's interesting that some of those going on about Bernie being a socialist or even, sometimes, a communist, engage in behavior that is reminiscent of Maoism. If they had their way, would they set up re-education centers? Anyway, I can't really help because I don't understand how all this stuff works. I can say that you're probably my favorite poster on here.

[Dragonfli]

59. Thank you for the compliment, this was once a very different site and the admins would not have

allowed much of what is going on now. You should have been here 10 years ago! or even earlier. We had many dozens of posters ten times better than I could ever hope to be. A few of them still remain, but many were chased off or kicked out since Hillary decided she would run and a neo-liberal bully faction moved in.

That is when the negative behavior you describe became so common, in 2008 it went down hill but nothing like you see now.

Also since you are new, if you haven't found it already, the little graphic at the top between the first one from the left "view profile" and the third one from the left "send DU mail" is the graphic second from the left called "View DU journal"

When reading this page (the one I am writing now that you will see as a reply) look at the top, a mouseover on top of the graphic will show what they are, If you wish to read some of my OPs going back a couple pages worth, click on the one second from the left that should read "view DU Journal" and you will see the ones I saved there and can read them at your leisure.

[riderinthestorm]

58. I'm sorry. Take care. Be careful.

I have no words of wisdom. Just a (((hug))) in solidarity.

I haven't served on a jury in months (I have 1 hide, go. figure) - I wish I could help you there...

[raging moderate]

60. Could someone please tell me: What is JPR?

I could not find it. What does JPR stand for?

[Dragonfli]

61. It stands for the working class, the disowned, the oppressed, the poor, it stands for all but

the 1% It Stands For You

edited to add ink

[raging moderate]

62. Gee, thanks! So it's Jackpine radicals!

I had no idea! Well, I will have to spend some time there. I like the looks of it.

[Dragonfli]

63. ;-) /nt

[bbgrunt]

65. This alert stalking is real and nasty. Your posts are always great and

greatly appreciated by many here, including myself. I am truly sorry this is happening to you and others here. Admin could easily limit this problem by limiting the number of alerts by individuals to, for example, 2 per week--Though it might not be effective in limiting group efforts. But the only effort they have made to deal with this was to open the floodgates with their amnesty edict.

Anyway, I would still notify admin even if they take no action.

[merrily]

66. Dear Dragonfli

Those who have on ignore can alert on your posts and also jury your posts, although they cannot do both for the same post.



Apart from that, I don't know what to do, other than send positive thoughts, which I do.

[Time for change]

67. I don't believe that you have earned such treatment

I have heard that there is a group of Hillary supporters on this site who have a mission to get rid of strong Bernie supporters from the site. I don't know whether these people have been paid to do that or not. I do know that the Clinton campaign has paid people to slander Bernie, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that they have paid some DUers to do something similar.

I don't know who the stalkers are -- I can only guess from some of the comments I've received from my own posts, but your guess is probably as good as mine.

Some of my posts lately have been taken to juries too, and I think I won a couple of 4-3 decisions. I don't believe it's a good system because I think that to a large extent, whether or not your post is hidden depends a lot on how many ardent Hillary supporters are on the jury, and that is a random process.

I don't think I can advise you on how to handle it, I can only tell you how I handle it: I try to be careful not to break DU rules. I try to maintain a civil tone (though I must admit that I'm not always successful in that). I try to make sure that my facts are correct, and document them with links where I can.

My attitude is much like yours I think. I hope that by doing the above I won't get banned from DU. But as I said in one OP, if I speak the truth and say what's really important to me and I still get banned because of too many hides, then so be it, because if I can't talk about what's important to me (fair elections and its converse, election fraud in the Democratic primaries being the main one), then I may as well not be here.

It's worked for me so far, and I hope it works for you too. Good luck.

[jillan]

68. I cannot get over this. I cannot believe people can be so ugly that they would do this to you.

Your posts are always so thoughtful, you do not attack Hillary personally, from what I have seen.
Unfortunately discussing facts, like the fact that she is being investigated by the FBI is seen as an attack on her.

I don't have any advice for you, just hugs

As far as the admins, I don't know if they will do anything.
I had a stalking situation a few months ago, nothing like this. My posts that were hidden were posted in a facebook group.
The admins didn't see anything wrong with that - after 3 attempts to get a response, that was the response I got.
But yours is much more serious. I would hope they would care.

I'm so sorry you are going thru this.
If there is anything I can do, let me know.

And-when did having "far left views" become a bad thing on a Democratic website?

[LWolf]

72. I don't know who would be most likely, but

I can say that I've gone from 0 - 29 this primary season, referring to my "ignore" list.

I know you don't deserve this treatment.

A good place to start might be that other site that they started; I don't remember how to get there, but if anyone maintained a presence, there might be some chatter there.

[SandersDem]

75. The OP

is already with us. And we are with him. If there is anything that we can do, we will.

jackpineradicals.org

[emulatorloo]

76. You are a great poster, so sorry to somebody is mailing you this crap.

[wisteria]

77. This is nonsense.

Clinton's group would not be involved in this.

[Dragonfli]

83. Really? I think thou dost protest too much! are you willing to send me a handwriting sample?

You guys/gals have always "been involved" in this stuff, there are screen caps to prove it.

The fact that some of you, or one of you, has stepped it up a notch to prove they know where I live has not had the effect intended.

because-

I AM NOT AFRAID OF ANY OF YOU!!! I know only a coward would send a letter with no return address and so I know I am dealing with a coward(s) too frightened to make the trip personally and see what this ill, but not yet atrophied 59 year old man can do in rebuttal, likely you would be afraid to even enter my neighborhood as it is full of poor desperate people mostly Minority, AKA according to Hill "superpredators".

Suburbanites fear us, even if we are just regular folk.

But realize this, I actually grew up in a much worse neighborhood that taught me how to stand up for myself quite well, I would not be an easy victim, bring it! I don't need any help to defend myself.

Certainly not from stalking cowards, that are too frightened to give me an address to mail them back (not even a PO box) with even a witten self defense, let alone a face to face.

Go plot in that Clinton Cave site, in that hidden forum used to coordinate desperate stalking attacks.

Leave this group, this is not a place for apologetics of cowardly tactics.

Good Day Sir/Madam!

Of course you will alert on this and prove me correct, it is what certain people do.

[Autumn]

99. That one won't be responding, they are blocked. If you receive any more messages from that group

let Skinner and the hosts in this group know about them. Anything is sent snail mail to you again call the post office and let them handle it. I'm sorry you are feeling stressed over this, they are cowards and bullies.

[Autumn]

78. Your OP has been alerted. I will not lock this.

ALERT: Thread may violate Statement of Purpose for group: Bernie Sanders
Mail Message
You have received this Alert message because you are currently a Host of the group: Bernie Sanders.

ALERTED DISCUSSION THREAD

-- Author: Dragonfli
-- Title: Okay, I have a very real alert stalking problem and I need help from you guys.
-- Location: Bernie Sanders
-- Posted: Fri May 13, 2016, 06:35 PM
-- Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280195039

ALERT INFORMATION

-- Sent by: I will send the name to anyone who wants it
-- Reason: This discussion thread violates the Statement of Purpose for this forum.
-- Alerter's comments: If this DU'er has a problem with getting threatening emails on the forum or in real life, they need to bring it up with the Administrators and local police and post office NOT posters in the protected Bernie Sanders forum. A quick search of ATA shows this DU'er never posted there about this issue and the Transparency page shows some pretty clear causes for hiding posts- personal attacks and posting graphic violence photos for shock value. And just an observation- this person claims to have received THREATS (as in more than one) AND FAN mail. Sorry, this doesn't sound like the intended purpose of the Bernie Sanders Group… which is to discuss Bernie Sanders and his run for the primary.

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE: Bernie Sanders

A group for supporters of Bernie Sanders.

[QC]

84. Give her a map to someone who cares. n/t

[Puglover]

86. No shit.

[Autumn]

98. The Hillary group should tend to their own before they decide to control ours.

[Dragonfli]

87. I assume the name rhymes with hysteria. I would like to address the message you received-

The administrators can do nothing about a snail mail letter sent to me without a return address.
They are also aware already of what goes on here and they have already answered twice (just not to me personally)

Once the answer was along he lines of "you roll the dice" or some such with juries.
The other said they were monitoring for such things, so they are aware, they simply do not appear to care.

Beyond the Admin thing which I feel to be a waste of time as there is some appearance of bias whether imagined or real, it appears so in my eyes.


Regarding the hides

As to the content of my hidden posts, I admit two of them were deserved and I own those mistakes, the rest judge for yourselves, but they fall into two categories, One, posts where I wrote in great detail regarding the records of the candidates that do not make Hillary look good and another where I wrote about the party appearing to change since the late eighties, both of those could not be arguably disputed so they were silenced with bogus alerts, IMHO

Two others were jokes, one in a reply to a post so absurd I thought it was satire and another where I was making fun of neo-nazis (after a poster used an anti semitic dog whistle) I did not know that Neo-nazies were protected from criticism in our rule system or making fun of them, the alerter must have felt differently as well as the jury. There is one that I do not know how to categorize as I simply threw the posters own words back in their face. I did not write the vile things the poster wrote, yet I was the one hidden for criticizing such horrible thoughts (in truth, even in the 3/4 jury verdict one of the guilty votes admitted he/she thought she was voting to hide the post I responded to and that only worked due to one posters confusion.

Those are the successful hides.
(for the record I believe only two of my successful hides were appropriate as I know the rules, yet others may disagree)

There have been countless times in the threads where posts of mine were alerted and I was told in the same thread that I was alerted on for completely innocent posts, most of those were unanimous in disagreement with the alerter, some others were 6 to 1 in my favor and a couple were 2 to 5 in my favor.

Then there are the ones I only knew about via email "heads ups" that I was juried, again with juries mostly largely close to unanimous in disagreement with the alerter.

As to posting in this group Autumn, I am sorry I brought undo attention here, I never thought it wold get recced beyond the view of the group itself and came here to ask friends for help and advice, knowing other Sanders supporters have been on the receiving en of alert stalking. Who better to help and advise me?

I thought my known location was a unique problem, but one reply said they were shown a picture of where they live and know of yet another person that had a similar experience.

As far as the law enforcement authorities go, I do not think they are concerned with threats of alert stalking on private message boards but their jurisdiction is rather more along the lines of personal bodily threats of harm.


If this Thread and my OP are causing the group any problem, simply ask and I will self delete everything I posted here, I never meant for this to cause the group a problem, I simply went to where my friends are found to ask for helpful advise regarding my dilemma.

[Autumn]

95. We are your friends and we are here for you. You belong here and your posts belong here.

If Hillary supporters don't like what is posted here they can trash the group.

[Dragonfli]

97. Thank you Autumn, the very reason I came here for advise is because I DO consider you friends

[LaurenG]

88. That is freakin wrong

I hope you take it to those who can ensure that ass is caught.

[Dragonfli]

89. I don't believe any such place exists, and all I can do to protect myself is to use my

jury blacklist more effectively, or simply stop posting anything not raising Hilary (which would be hypocritical of me as I see her as a very flawed candidate that harms the party).

Or simply stop posting here anymore, It is obvious that both the Hillary supporters and the admins (as they monitor these things and must be aware) and would prefer it if I stopped posting.

I don't know if it is because they feel I am too effective at revealing uncomfortable truths, or I am simply not wanted because my beliefs are not center right enough or it is widely believed I am a lousy writer that lowers the level of discourse here.

I am very seriously considering taking the far more than blatant hint and do the latter, that is to say, do and write nothing here.
it also appears I have brought undue and unearned negative attention to this group and even if that was never my intention, i feel such is my fault and it concerns me. V4ery much so in fact, because you people, my friends in this group, are doing and have done great work.

[LaurenG]

92. I don't think leaving is the answer. It seems you are being

bullied by bad people.

Don't worry about bringing negative attention here. There are those who love Bernie and those who don't. The ones who don't are the ones bringing the negativity.

I'm sorry for the things that are happening to you.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

93. Snail mail? How do they know your address?

[Dragonfli]

102. You'd have to as them (him/her) that, I can only guess that because on many places on the internet,

My IRL name and my online handle "Dragonfli" are found together, that and lots of people know not only the city I live in, but also the general area, this has been true for years, but this is the first time it caused me a problem, I did get some positive snail mail from people (not on this board) that I never gave my address to, I assume the asshole(s) found my addy in a similar way.

I have never been afraid of who or where I live, and I have written OP Eds and LTTEs locally in the past, (the LTTEs being the only ones published in the big paper, The Buffalo News" but even the smaller more local circular type papers where my OP Eds were published have online sites these days. generally speaking, I know I have never been "paranoid careful" about such things, but the reason is, I really have no feelings of fear, of either my neighbors, my detractors, or anybody else for that matter, how they got my address does not really cause me worry or concern, it is what they want to do regarding my 12 year tenure on this site that does. That is the bit I want to fix, not "feeling safe" from cowardly internet bullies that didn't leave so much as a PO box, cowardly

Why would anybody fear a coward? Especially someone like myself with absolutely nothing to lose? Someone that isn't even afraid of actually violent people in the area I live in?

I own absolutely nothing of value, I have no money whatsoever, and don't much care about my personal safety having lost already the only thing I ever cared about, my wife, add to that my ever failing health, and why be afraid of anything or anyone?

[liberalnarb]

94. I'm far left, and proud of it!

Anyway, how did they get your personal email address? Please tell me you didn't put it in your profile info. I'm going to shoot Skinner a message, not sure anything will be done about it, but I'll try. This is preposterous.

[Dragonfli]

103. As far as I know, they don't have my personal email address, just my mailing address. /nt

[liberalnarb]

104. How'd they get that?

[Dragonfli]

106. Don't really know and oddly don't even much care, I don't fear them or anything. /nt

[RazBerryBeret]

100. this is crazy

I always enjoy your posts... even if I didn't agree with them (I usually do....) they are well written and usually with a sense of humor. sorry this has happened. I would def alert the admins; at least it would the be on record. good luck, man.

[djean111]

101. My recent hides were because "it is time to shut down criticism of the Clintons on this board"

types of hides. If Hillary is the nominee, I am really gonna miss you guys!

[Dragonfli]

105. I assume my alert stalking is for a similar reason, the last couple of weeks, I wrote some well

received OPs that got lots of recs, most had to do with either the candidates comparative records, or the IMO very damaging swing to the right of the party, naming Al From and the Clintons as being among the key architects of the rightward shift.

I also implied that she would, because of her history, donators and general political philosophy, continue taking us further rightward and further corporate. I have also mention upon occasion her neocon ties and over exuberance when it comes to encouraging Coups and in taking us into more war. She is a hawk, I didn't lie about anything I wrote and most of it was very well sourced.

Writing such things would certainly concern those that feel "it is time to shut down criticism of the Clintons on this board".

[cui bono]

109. This is horrible, but sadly, not surprising.

We saw all those vile screenshots of their hatred and plotting on the Clinton Cave. Such ugly and hate filled people, they must have really sad lives. I almost feel sorry for them but for the fact that they are so intent on spreading their sickness onto others.

There is no reason for you to be banned. Your posts are very thoughtful and informative.

Stay strong and don't let the asstrolls get you down.

.

[Dragonfli]

110. I actually do feel sorry for them, life without joy is misery, I once and for a good long time felt

great Joy! I had a humble but extremely happy home and life with the love of my life, a rare thing to find.
Good and even happy marriages are somewhat common, but actual soul mates? Not so often. I can't begin to describe the joy that lies therein.

People like them have obviously never felt such love, such joy, else hatred could not grow so easily and consume them so completely. I may have lost my wife in the end and the great joy she brought me, leaving me depressed, but the mere memory of it, of her, is enough that such hatred could never find fertile soil within my soul for such empty hatred.

They are intent on making my life harder than it is (which would kind of be impossible anyway, as I now live in poverty and poor health) and my great love has moved on to await me somewhere, sometime in the future.

So yes, I do feel sorry for them despite there sad and evil intent. For they have nothing of true value, no true joy.

[Waiting For Everyman]

114. Sorry I didn't know about this

until your post in GDP. I spend most of my time there. I consider myself part of this group but I usually run out of time before getting over here.

I won't repeat what's already been said, except to express total solidarity with you, and agree that your posts are always among the best on DU and always of interest to me. People like you are the reason why we come here. (I'm looking at you Skinner.)

I've developed some ways of doing things that have worked for me, for what they're worth.

Cut down the volume of posts. Post what you consider the most meaningful, but minimize your footprint on the others. At least for a while.

Be careful to criticize anything BUT the poster. The choice of wording is important. A thought can be lame, or an attitude, or an outcome, etc. I'm pretty doggone critical of HRC herself and the DNC and whatever, and I'm sure I've been alerted on, but so far no hides in a very long while. (Except one I intended to do in order to call bullshit on someone who desperately needed it last year.)

It helps to avoid deeply involved conversations. I try to only respond directly to an OP, with rare exceptions. If it's a prickly topic or posted by a Clintonite, and I want to respond to something deep in a convo, I will still post it as a reply to the original OP, almost always. If I get a shitty response to that, I usually ignore it and don't reply. If I'm swarmed I don't reply. I trust that DUers can recognize bullshit when they see it, without my telling them it is.

(Btw, I often don't reply to posts I like a lot, as well, either because I was away for a while or lots of reasons. No reply doesn't mean I took it as negative.)

Topics that are by certain people who only post OPs to needle Sanders supporters go right in the Trash Can. Sometimes I'll look at it first, and sometimes I don't even need to. (I use that feature more than any here, and I don't have anyone on ignore.) Not every lie needs to be refuted every time. If it does need refuting usually a Sanders supporter will post a counter-OP and I'll respond to THAT.

Remember that only those who have not responded in a thread at that point can be on a jury for that thread. Also a lot of alerts come from extremely venomous LURKERS. You may not see them come out in the open very often, but sometimes you'll see them express hostility to someone with a similar view to yours.

I would go back through your hides, and keeping your most hateful adversaries in mind, look at who had not posted prior to your hide but did post afterwards. It's not certain, but could be telling.

Get frostier. Tell people off just as much but in a colder, more intellectual way. It's hard for them to cope with that.

Be like Caesar's wife, don't give them any ammo.

Also, if you get another snail-mail, show it to your postmaster. It doesn't need to be a big crime for them to give you information about it. They can help.

They like to alert late at night because it's easier to stack a jury. Well I'm often on here then. And if I see ONE bogus alert on you, anytime, I am going to begin complaining and alerting back. I looked back through the juries I've been on recently and there weren't any for you. But about half were for other strong posters in this group.

So in short, don't let them drive you off and don't let them silence you, just be thoughtful about how you do things and make it hard for them.

I hope something in my 2 cents may be of help.

I'm glad you posted this thread, Dragonfli. As a widow, I get what it's like, hang in there.

[davidpdx]

115. I am also sorry to hear this is happening to you

People who invade your private life to carryout some kind of petty vendetta and hide behind a keyboard are no better than Rush Limbaugh behind a microphone.

I would encourage you to save everything and I mean everything including printing screenshots of PMs you might get. Do you know that if you get a threatening PM you can alert on it?

Honestly I don't think the admins here give a shit, but I would report it anyway. If they don't answer then they are not only fools, they are complicit in the harassment.

I probably will be leaving sometime in June. I'll be on vacation anyway and even when I come back I don't think I could care less about this place anymore with the things going on like you being harassed it just solidifies my decision.

[Kittycat]

118. And just remember you can always post here

In our group. We enjoy the information, and often read/use it as jumping points in our own research or discussions on or outside of DU

Remember, Sanders supporters aren't afraid of having discussions on issues.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. These folks do this to anybody they do not like

I speak from experience, the Admins will do exactly shit and jack. The best one can do is laugh at the bullies, They hate that crap.

[w4rma]

120. Don't give into bullies. Contact the administrators. Contact the police. Document everything.

Get everyone involved, who is doing this to you, banned and/or jailed.