Stephen Lynch (D. Mass) says nominating Sanders means a Republican President.

[merrily]

Q: In terms of Hillary Clinton, does she have an excitement problem? How do you account for Bernie Sanders? What do you think about him and why do you think he’s gotten so much attention?

A: Well, I’ll tell you what, if Bernie Sanders is our nominee, we are going to have a Republican president and I’m not excited about that. So, so, I mean, that’s plain and simple. ... Bernie has worked on a couple of issues with me in Congress on post-reform. He’s a solid senator and a good man. But I know what the Republicans will do in the general election with regard to Bernie being proud of being a socialist candidate, things like that. They will have a field day with Bernie Sanders, and so I think Hillary Clinton is our best chance on the Democratic side. She’s got the whole package, she’s been there, she’s done that. You know, she was our secretary of state, she’s our most qualified candidate in some time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10572660

Lynch is my Congressional Rep. He used to be seen as anti-gay and anti-choice while being very pro-labor When he ran against Markey for Kerry's seat, however, he was pro equal marriage ("Equal means equal," also mentioning a cousin who is gay) and pro-choice.

I have emailed his office on a prior occasion to object to his negative comments about Sanders. However, this is even worse than the comment I previously emailed him about. This is exactly the kind of comment that scares the left out of supporting Sanders. In fact, I have been having a dialogue with a Massachusetts friend about this very point just this past week. Loves Sanders, but is afraid of the McGovern myth. See this thread, including the replies: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778825 Like so many, she'd never heard of the DLC, even though she is generally politically aware, but knows about "Wall Street.&quot

The implication is always that Hillary can and will win the general but Sanders cannot. I think Hillary can, and very well may, lose the general, if she is the nominee. I think Sanders has a better chance of winning the general than she does.

[Le Taz Hot]

1. Yeah, about that "McGovern myth."

It goes along with the "Bernie believes that women not having orgasms causes cancer," "Bernie doesn't relate to people of color," and "Bernie's not a liberal" whisper campaign. It all comes from one source and that source doesn't want Bernie to win the nomination. And that source has hundreds of willing mouthpieces ready to go on the TeeVee the second they're asked to do so. Bernie has Bernie, Elizabeth Warren and us. I'll take those odds any day.

[merrily]

6. Bernie has Warren?

[Le Taz Hot]

8. Well, not in the form of a formal endorsement . . . yet.

But she recently talked about how Bernie is addressing issues that concern everyday people and she's a reformer just like he is so, yeah, I consider her in Bernie's camp.

[merrily]

10. I would not bank on that unless or until Sanders starts looking like a sure thing to win the nom.

I can even see Warren endorsing Hillary at some point. DeBlasio as well. I think they both understand that, if Hillary does get the nom, they had damn well better have helped her when she needed help, if they want to stay in politics.

[Le Taz Hot]

11. What can I say?

Where Bernie's concerned, I'm an optimist. She's smart and won't endorse anyone too early like some union "leaders" we could name but I think after he wins or comes in a close second in the first few primaries/caucuses she'll endorse him.

[merrily]

12. I certainly hope you're correct. I just wouldn't bank on it (no pun intended).

[djean111]

2. Yawn. I wonder if this sh-stuff was a handout in the Hillary-Congressional Dems meeting. nt

[merrily]

7. It's someone's talking point, that's for sure.

[cantbeserious]

3. Ever More Misdirection And Fear Mongering

eom

[merrily]

13. Yep. The political version of terrorism.

President Cruz! Supreme Court! End of the world as we know it!

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. You are supplying the dictionary definition of "hack politician":

>>>Lynch is my Congressional Rep. He used to be seen as anti-gay and anti-choice while being very pro-labor When he ran against Markey for Kerry's seat, however, he was pro equal marriage ("Equal means equal," also mentioning a cousin who is gay) and pro-choice. >>>

We can't know if Clinton is more electable than Sanders at this point in time. The primaries should give us more info on which to base that judgment.

In the meantime, I'll simply observe that what the party and, esp. the COUNTRY do NOT need is more of the same cliched non-solutions to very REAL problems of the sort that are being peddled by the opposition to the Sanders movement.

Like this guy , for instance.


Whether enough other people come to that realization very much remains to be seen at this point.

[merrily]

9. I agree. I had a soft spot in my heart for Lynch because he is a former laborer who is pro-union.

However, he is wearing on me with this negative stuff about Sanders. And I vote for him (or not).

[RoccoR5955]

5. More bullshit

and fear mongering from the DCCC

[delrem]

14. Stephen Lynch's argument is that he's so scared shitless by what Republicans might say,

that he's endorsing Hillary Clinton.

But can anyone now imagine the coming catfight between family friends Hillary and Jeb, in an historic demonstration of electoral politics post citizens united?

Stephen Lynch doesn't address that consequence of his way of thinking.

[merrily]

15. Massachusetts went heavily for Clinton over Obama in 2008.

She got most of the endorsements from Democratic establishment here.

So much for allegedly the most liberal state in the country?

IMO, a Hillary! v. Jeb! election will mean that even more potential voters than usual will not bother to show up at the polls, but pissed off Republicans will.

[MissDeeds]

16. Nominating Hillary guarantees a Republican president

regardless of who wins the general election.

[merrily]

17. Except for the Supreme Court. In this connection, however, I note that

Bill Clinton nominated Ruth Ginsburg, a giant, and Breyer, a corporate type.

Once Ginsburg leaves the court, I worry about Breyer and Kagan, both of whom voted with the Republican nominated Justices on the expansion of Medicaid portion of the first Obamacare case decided by the SCOTUS.

For mandating that private individuals purchase from private health insurers and for states' rights, against the ability of Congress to direct its own Medicaid spending as it chooses. Ugh.

And I pray that Sunstein is not the next nominee.

[Thespian2]

43. Will add...

If HRC gets the nomination, the GREEDY BASTARDS who control the economy will be assured that they will control the presidency...and I must say, these people (Kochs, Goldman Sachs, etc) don't really fear Bernie; they truly believe their money will defeat him in the primaries...

[Babel_17]

18. Gratuitous falsehood and repeating the establishment mantra

I guess he got the memo.

[merrily]

20. He didn't get that memo from Trumka, that's for sure.

As someone in the Mass Group pointed out, Lynch was speaking on Boston Herald radio, the Herald being our rightist newspaper, once owned by none other than Rupert Murdoch.

[HooptieWagon]

19. There's a whole lot of Democrats, real progressives....

...not phony ones like Hillary, who sick and tired of the Third Way, and aren't going to vote for her. She won't get any republican votes, few Independants, and youth aren't going to turn out to vote for same ol', same ol'. It will be another Democratic bloodbath for DWS to add to her resume. Even if the GOP nominates a complete idiot, their base will turn out in droves to vote against Clinton. There is no path to victory in the GE for her.

[merrily]

22. Jeb's brother may have lied us into war, but Hillary advocated for it and voted for it.

No doubt, Jeb would have voted for it if were in Congress, but he wasn't. She can't distinguish herself there. They are both "dynastic" candidates. She can't distinguish herself there. Fracking, charter schools, Keystone, TPP. Go down the list. The Supreme Court has settled equal marriage, so that is not a real issue for either of them--and she was late to come to the correct side of it. Choice: Jeb will shrug. Hillary will hit it hard, but, ultimately, that, too, is a Supreme Court issue. Helping the poor and most vulnerable: Jeb's already come out for that.

He'll get most of the vote of Americans with Cuban heritage, as they have always tended to vote Repubican. Will he also get the votes of those with Mexican and Puerto Rican heritage? Don't know.

[hootinholler]

21. What the fuck does he think will happen to Hillary?

Man the Rs have some serious and lengthy shit to throw at her. Plus she won't draw any new or disaffected voters to the polls.

[merrily]

23. Shhhh. That she might be more likely than Sanders to lose the general is not supposed to even occur

to us. Neither is the possibility that Sanders could win it.

Pay no attention to that general election vote behind the curtain, no attention at all.

[historylovr]

24. We must be channeling each other because I was just thinking about ruby slippers. ;-)

[merrily]

32. Also, "These are not the droids you're looking for."

Two great fantasy films.

Although....I once read that the Wizard of Oz may have been about FDR. Political commentary, ala Gulliver's Travels?

[historylovr]

38. I think the novel had more to do with 19th Century politics, supposedly.

Dorothy wore Silver Shoes to symbolize the bi-metalism debate. Okay, I did a quick search. There's this thesis talked about here in Allusions to 19th Century America:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz

But the film may have referred to FDR, that's very possible.

[merrily]

39. In the novel, Dorothy wore silver shoes? I never read the novel. Only saw the film.

A college friend said, "There was never a film that was as good as the play; there was never a play that was as good as the book; there was never a book that was as good as the poem."

Whether she was correct or simply literally sophomoric, I will leave to others. However, the first time I saw Wizard of Oz was so magical that I think reading the book might spoil for it me. In fact, every time I've seen it has been magical, not only the first time. I just don't watch it every time it's on anymore.

When I saw one of the pairs of the original ruby slippers in the Smithsonian, I was transfixed.

Wait a minute! Was red code for Republicans as far back as the 1930s?

Ugh. I'd hate to think the film was a critique of FDR, or a paean to Republicans, so I won't. Not usually a fan of denial, but I don't think my allowing myself this one will do anyone much harm at this late date.

[historylovr]

40. Yes.

I bought an old paperback when I was maybe ten or eleven, can't remember where. There are other differences too, but I won't spoil it more.

Well, it's only a possibility, just as the connection to 19th Century political and monetary debates is only a possibility, so you're safe. Focus instead on the delightful writing, directing, and acting, and of course the cinematography.

[merrily]

41. Also costumes, music, singing, dancing, special effects (pretty advanced for 1930s)

but, mostly, when I watch it, I am the age I was when I first saw it TV, maybe 9 or 11? Something like that.

[historylovr]

42. Absolutely. Like you said, it's magical!

[SoapBox]

26. Abso-frick'n-loutely!

She has SO much baggage!

And FuksFakeNews and their evil ilk, will HAMMER, HAMMER, HAMMER on her...I really think she will lose.

There is a lot of Clinton burnout and it's magnified when it comes to her.

[SoapBox]

25. March Zombies, March!

They just want you to fall in line for her.

It seems that the DINO's and Third Wayers are gett'n real concerned...his statements are a prime example.

But...we have the voters...and every minute more and more Americans hear his message and get onboard.

It's a whole different world of communication with social media...they can't stop this storm.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. DU, ahead of the game!

I've been hearing that talking point around here for a couple of months.

[Maedhros]

28. So does electing Hillary. [n/t]

[CTBlueboy]

29. Enough is Enough

So talking points were distributed today ?

[immoderate]

30. Any Republican will tell you that Hillary and Obama are socialists.

They KNOW that.

--imm

[swilton]

31. I don't consider this guy a progressive

He's not a member of the Progressive Caucus and he seems to offer mere token opposition to the 2024 Olympics being held in Boston.....

[merrily]

33. He did get more liberal when he tried for statewide election.

Boston is supposedly the most liberal part of Massachusetts, and he's my rep. Thing is, Democratic incumbents often go unchallenged here, certainly at the primary stage, but also in the general. That sure makes someone like Lynch seem highly electible, doesn't it?

[restorefreedom]

34. debbie must be working the phones

a fear based vote is an insult to democracy.

if hillary can't win without crap like this, then she shouldn't be president

[merrily]

35. Great quote "a fear-based vote is an insult to democracy."

I am going to steal it for my email to Lynch. Not that I expect my email to do much beyond letting him know someone in his district is watching.

I don't know that Debbie has to work the phones. I think the word went out long ago.

[restorefreedom]

36. thx. it really just popped into my head.

fatigue sometimes facilitates useful nuggets. steal away! as litman said to elaine, these ideas are in the air

yeah i think some are getting very nervous. sadly the fear mongering (what about scotus, etc) is going to continue

[merrily]

37. Some of my best and worst thoughts arrive without invitation or premeditation.

[LWolf]

44. I've always thought

that the bigger obstacle to a Sanders presidency is the primaries. I have no doubt he'd beat whatever R ends up on the ballot.

We have to overcome this idea; it's really the bottom line for a vast number of Democratic voters who are leaning HRC, and that's why it's going to be pushed hard, again and again and again.

[merrily]

45. It is indeed the bottom line for voters who have bought the party line.

Recently, I spoke speaking to a friend with whom I'd been out of touch with for a while. She gave me the McGovern meme/shibboleth. Although she is politically aware, she had never heard of the Democratic Leadership Council, etc. I sent her some wikipedia and DU links.

A couple of days later, she emailed that she's been telling "everyone" about the DLC. I think the odds are now that she will vote for Bernie in the primary and she may convince others in her circle. However, she is intelligent and willing to read and think.

One of the links I sent her was to the wikipedia article on the DLC. Another was to two of my OP's and I asked her to follow the links within the OPs. I told her it was a lot and to take her time going through it because it was important.

This was one of the OP's http://www.democraticunderground.com/12779277. If you follow all the links within it, it covers the myth that McGovern and Mondale were too liberal to be elected and therefore Democrats should go right to get elected.

Another was http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6211673 (Hillary, DLC/Third Way, Neocons, PNAC, Etc.)

Another was http://www.democraticunderground.com/12776532 (Bush, Clinton, Bush - Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iraq.) This one, I told her she probably didn't even have to read: the visual alone told a story.

Thing is, she is intelligent and engaged and will do all that reading. I don't know if everyone will. That's the problem with fighting memes. It takes a second to repeat the meme, but a lot of work to refute it, once it has become ingrained.

[LWolf]

46. You're doing that work; we all need to. nt

[merrily]

47. Everyone has to work, that's for sure.

I don't really know what work everyone is or is not doing.