Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumMatthew Yglesias Tells a Whopper about Sen. Sanders?
Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:09 PM - Edit history (1)
Here is the link to the story in question: http://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders
Here is the headline, aka the Head Whopper:
Denmark's prime minister says Bernie Sanders is wrong to call his country socialist
Updated by Matthew Yglesias on October 31, 2015, 10:30 a.m. ET @mattyglesias matt@vox.com*
So, we would expect a quote of some kind from the Prime Minister of Denmark, Lars Lokke Rasmussen, naming Bernie Sanders, right? Does the story contain any such quote, though? You guessed it: no.
Mind you, the Prime Minister of Denmark,was speaking at Harvard. The tape of his talk is embedded in the story linked above. It is almost one hour ten minutes long. Of that, Rasmussen's speech was about 26 minutes. The balance of the time was taken by a Q and A, with students asking the questions. It was a wide ranging discussion: a lot about Denmark, the UN, the influx of immigrants into Europe in general and Denmark in particular.
As part of a longer introduction of the Prime Minister, the Acting Dean mentioned that one Presidential candidate had said favorable things about Denmark, while the other had said the United States is not Denmark. That was it. Even he did not name the candidates.
Some minutes into his speech, the Prime Minister said that, of course, he had no desire to interfere in our Presidential process. (Duh.) However, he loved to share about things close to heart, and Denmark was close to his heart. Then, he began speaking about Denmark and many other things as they related to Denmark. While Yglesias' story makes it seem that the Prime Minister referenced our Presidential debates then immediately set people straight about socialism, that did not happen either. There were unrelated comments in between. So, that is another misleading aspect of this story.
Then the quote that supposedly (snort) "calls out Bernie Sanders" for allegedly mischaracterizing Denmark:
I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism," he said, "therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.
That is it, folks. That's all he said on the subject about which this story supposedly is written. No mention whatever of Bernie Sanders. BUT:
The Prime Minister went on to say that Denmark is a welfare state (a description of Denmark he repeated several times throughout the speech) and to detail the many, many benefits Denmark offers its citizens, how prosperous Denmark is, how socially secure its citizens are, etc. He cited a number of ways in which Denmark compared very favorably to the US (much as Sanders often has).
AFAIK, Sanders has never said that Denmark is a socialist planned economy or said that Denmark is not a market economy. He has said we could be more like Denmark or we could learn some things from Denmark. And, very obviously, the Prime Minister never mentioned Sanders's name. (The only mention of Sanders's name on the entire tape comes near the end, as part of a comment a student made.) Further, as the story itself notes, Rasmussen's own description of Denmark's economy matches what Sanders has said about Denmark's economy!
Assuming that the Prime Minister was replying to things said in the Presidential debates at all, instead of simply educating the Harvard students about Denmark, how is he not agreeing with Sanders--that the US could learn a few things from Denmark? Indeed, if the Prime Minister was rebuking anything from the Presidential debates, it was Hillary's summary dismissal of Sanders' compliments to Denmark, suggesting the US was somehow above all that. Very worst case for Sanders, one could say the Prime Minister rebuked both candidates.
So, why did Yglesias assume that the Prime Minister was rebuking Sanders and only Sanders? No clue. None.
Cast of Characters (if you're interested. It's quite telling, IMO).
Author of the misleading story: Matthew Yglesias. Yglesias attended The Dalton School in NY (a private school) and Harvard U, being graduated magna cum laude from the latter. Aka someone who should know better. While still in college, he began blogging, supporting the Iraq War. He also voted for Romney as Governor (2002).
After graduation, he worked for American Prospect, then the Atlantic Monthly. In July of 2008, he left the Atlantic Monthly to work for Center for American Progress, blogging for ThinkProgress. In November, 2011, Yglesias left ThinkProgress for Slate. In 2014, he left Slate to work on Vox.com (owned by Vox Media, which Jim Bankoff heads) with Ezra Klein.** (CAP, of course, was founded by John Podesta who worked for Bill Clinton and Obama and who currently chairs the Presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Yglesias
Publisher of the misleading story: Vox Media. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Media
Chair and CEO of Vox Media: Jim Bankoff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bankoff
Yglesias colleague at Vox Media: Ezra Klein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein
Denmark's Prime Minister, Lars Lokke Rasmussen, is the head of Denmark's Venstre Party. Wiki lists ten Danish political parties that are in the European Parliament and, as best I can tell, Venstre is about the third or fourth most conservative of the ten. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Denmark
Rasmussen has been the center of some controversies involving finances, which apparently have cost his party at the polls. He has instituted budget cuts. In 2011, he was defeated by a--wait for it--Social Democrat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_L%C3%B8kke_Rasmussen
*Please note Yglesias's contact info and also note that Vox requests feedback at the end of the story.
**Ezra Klein interviewed Bernie Sanders for Vox, July 28, 2015. At the very beginning of that interview, Klein invited Sanders to say what it meant to him to be a socialist. Sanders immediately corrected Klein, saying "Democratic Socialist." Then Sanders went on to tell Klein what being a Democratic Socialist meant to him (Sanders). Yet the Yglesias's story says:
Bernie Sanders has long referred to himself as a socialist rather than a member of the Democratic Party, which has naturally lead to a lot of questions about what socialism means to him.
Hmm. Yglesias is not familiar with the work of Vox, even though he works for Vox with Klein? He didn't even check the first minute of Klein's interview of Sanders before writing this piece that is allegedly about Sanders?
haikugal
(6,476 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)Because I have never heard Bernie say that Denmark was a socialist country. Thank you for your research.
merrily
(45,251 posts)in the election process of the nation he is visiting, unless the HOS is inappropriate or some extraordinary circumstances exist. I could not imagine why the Prime Minister of Denmark would want to alienate Sanders--or anyone--while visiting here.
Instead, the Prime Mnister said he is not getting involved, but setting the record straight as to Denmark, namely (1) it is a free market economy (Bernie never said otherwise); and (2) Denmark has it over the US in several ways (which Bernie certainly says, but Hillary bristled about).
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)Robbins
(5,066 posts)of course like usual they are wrong.
Bernie supports like denmark a market economy but with government oversight to protect the people.2008 crash shows what
happens when you don't.
Denmark has social programs to help people.
for all fear mongoring about socialed medcine are people In other countrys wanting to scrap their systems for profit system like
here? of course not.Stephen hawking one of smartest men in world would be dead if not for UK's so called socialzed medcine.
Always remember with health care Reagan in early 1960's spoke out against medicare saying it would end freedom In America.
And if anyone also tries to say JFK wasn't a liberal.as senator he helped introduce bill for medicare into congress.Centrists or
conservatives would never do that.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)From flat out lies to subtle manipulation...all under the disguise of being a "credible" journalist.
That list of who is involved where and when is amazing...and depressing at the same time. We think we're fighting the battle of FuksFakeNews and lame MSM, all while those that we may have listened to are really fighting, as Entrencthed Establishment, against us, the 99% as well.
The Clinton tentacles are long and deep.
merrily
(45,251 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The actual story corrects Iglesias' previous commentary as I read it.
Could you please explain what happened here?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Just to be clear: there is no correction that I know of. There is just a story: http://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders
Yglesias's story says only that Rasmussen said Sanders got it wrong, even though Rasmussen and Sanders described Denmark similarly.
But the underlying issue is whether Rasmussen ever did "call out" Sanders at all and, if so, did Rasmussen not "call out" Hillary even more?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)and pretending it's some sort of takeover of the means of production. He's calling out that lie the same way we call it out when we see it here.
No surprise the other side is lying about it. It's all they have
yodermon
(6,143 posts)Therefore Bernie is clearly a Stalinist dictator-in-waiting, QED."
Actually I wish Bernie had adopted the label "social democrat" because that tracks better to his actual policy positions. Too late to make that change.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)has a mixed economy (market based economy with strong government provided social programs).
As far as I remember we used to be a democracy before we were an oligarchy ruled by the few.
We used to be a country that practiced a market based economy instead of a corporate based economy.
And finally we had a government that was trying to provide a strong social safety net for its people before the Rs and Democratic centrists decide these were not good for the corporations.
How do you get a lot of cheap labor for the corporations when you have strong safety nets for the people? Thus the media and rich are against Democratic Socialism.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)The M$M at it again.
merrily
(45,251 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)But it seems fitting for the gymnastics that some in the M$M are going to gin up some sort of controversy.
Yglesias is not the only one or even the worst.
merrily
(45,251 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)A smile on some days is a precious thing.
merrily
(45,251 posts)A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Proverbs 17:22 King James Version
(You don't need to believe everything in the book to know that bit's true.)
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)That's so freakin' despicable! The MSM/THIRD WAY/DNC are doing everything in their power to bring down Bernie, but it's not going to work! He's already too big to Fail!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
merrily
(45,251 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)I'd be surprised if Yglesias watched it himself. That article sure doesn't reflect that he did! Or if he did watch or hear the speech in person, he blatantly lied/twisted the truth which, either way, makes him a hack and shill for some OTHER candidate.
ruffburr
(1,190 posts)Smearing Bernie Sanders are coming from all directions the Third Way'ers, The Republicans, The Corporations, The Bankers, you name it and if they are for the status quo they are trying to undermine Bernie, They are Terrified that their Gravy Train deal is about to collapse, I Say Screw 'EM I'm voting for Bernie Sanders!!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Off to write some emails! Thanks SuperMerrily!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Do I get super powers?
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)You're like Wonder Woman but without the weird invisible airplane...
merrily
(45,251 posts)Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who should, I believe, rule the world.
Dr. William Moulton Marston, original creator of the Wonder Woman character.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Et viola!