It's like an overwhelming play to enforce Hillary's inevitability. Polls, unions, endorsements...

[madfloridian]

from Senate and House Democratic leaders are meant to enforce and reinforce and then remind us again that Hillary is inevitable.

It's my opinion.

It started after the first debate when the internet went quickly and overpoweringly for Bernie.

At first I figured that well, it was so obvious that people would soon catch on. But with our media seemingly speaking with mostly one voice, we would not know there were those who realized that these massive changes seldom occur overnight in politics.

I have no idea how the primaries will end for the Democrats. I am fully in support of Bernie Sanders because he is saying things I believe to be true. I know what happened the last time we went against the Florida Democrats and supported Howard Dean. I know we were never really welcome by local Democrats again. I understand why they are that way.

All too many care far more about not making the Republicans around here upset than they actually care about winning. In my opinion that goal of going along to get along has given the Republicans in Florida almost total control of the Legislature and of the state.

I know. Someone's going to call my post sour grapes. I prefer to call it a look at the reality one side simply refuses to acknowledge. I have always felt polls could control questions, demographics, means of contact and pretty much get certain results.

I do know that in politics there is no sudden huge overnight surge and change in a candidate's popularity. The polls the day after the first debate were a shock. The endorsements came quickly, almost as though it was all organized.

The only people I talk to around here are Republicans. There is a great lack of Democrats. Most of the Republicans in my area are tea party types. They are independents. There is one characteristic they share.....they like straight honest talk.

But I have noticed one thing. They do not like Hillary Clinton. They like Bernie Sanders. I have no idea if they would vote for him, but they would not vote for Hillary.

They don't like Jeb! either. I guess you could say they are tired of dynasties.

Me, I am just tired. There were some rough times during the last 3 primaries I spent here at DU...and I often contributed to them. I had strong opinions. This time is different. There is ridicule, there is actually hatred.

I see posts recommending that since the polls are all so immensely in Hillary's favor that there is no need for other candidates to even bother.

It's different this time. As it was in 2003, there's a feeling that those of us supporting an "outsider" are going to hurt the party. But when I see people complaining that Bernie is not a Democrat, I want to say then let the party leaders remember his votes with the party. Let them remember that he voted with the party though at first they did not really want him to caucus with them.

I see it this way. If the party considers Bernie not to be a Democrat, then they must think of me that way as well. How very sad. I've always voted Democratic. Bill Clinton said we can fall in love in the primaries and fall in line in the general election. I have always done that.

People should hesitate before implying that Bernie Sanders and his supporters are not Democrats.

I keep thinking about all these young people who are excitedly supporting Bernie. I wonder if the Democratic party will embrace them or shun them.

Will they welcome these folks to the party and accept their fresh ideas?

I read an article today about the dangers of inevitability.

Inevitability comes before a fall

The trend seems clear, though: inevitability should not be something a candidate wants.

Hillary Clinton was the inevitable candidate in the 2008 race and the status did her more harm than good. Mitt Romney, the GOP’s inevitable candidate in the same year, wound up limping across the GOP primary finish line dogged by Rick Santorum of all people—only to lose after being seen as an out-of-touch, robotic and wooden joke on the campaign trail.

....Jeb Bush, meanwhile, has become a walking joke for his passive weakness in the face of Donald Trump’s insults, and his country-club white-collar tone and demeanor compared with Trump’s brashness.

Inevitability is bad for candidates. It makes them careful, comfortable and defensive. No modern candidate should want it. If a candidate is fortunate enough to hold a lead in an intra-party presidential primary, they should follow the opposite of their instincts and their consultants’ advice and stay hungry: hold rallies, initiate bold legislative proposals and make provocative statements to win a news cycle or two.

The American people have an intense anger at elites right now, and they feel both culturally and economically insecure. Inevitable candidates run the risk of incurring their anger as the entrenched elites who need to be removed. It’s perhaps the most dangerous position for a modern presidential candidate to hold.

[angrychair]

1. Well written

Could not agree more. Thank you!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Wow, my dear madfloridian...

So very well articulated. I think your prose is so compelling.

I am bowled over!

[madfloridian]

6. .....

Always glad when I can bowl you over, CP.

Really didn't feel like posting this week, but all this has just gotten to me so badly.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. I'm glad that you're glad, mad!

[Demeter]

22. Trust in Karma

because the bills are coming due, and they are horrifically large.

[PatrickforO]

3. Very thoughtful post.

When you wrote, "I keep thinking about all these young people who are excitedly supporting Bernie. I wonder if the Democratic party will embrace them or shun them," the first thing that came to my mind was this:

If the Dems don't embrace these kids now and let them come in and help shape the system, then those same kids will show up in 10 or 15 years with pitchforks ready to throw out the whole system and begin anew.

[Cassiopeia]

4. Thank you.

You have expressed so much of what I see and feel very well.

Will we rise up one more time? Will we demand change one more time?

I hope so and I'm going to fight to make it happen.

[madfloridian]

7. Hi, and good to know others who see FL as I do.

There really seems to be no winning spirit, just assumptions.

[Hawaiianlight]

5. I suspect you are right.

Hillary and her inner circle seemed overly concerned about her perception regarding the Wall Street donations. Not exactly the confidence stance I would expect from a campaign supposedly way ahead in polls. Plus, why would her super pac waste time and money rigging polls like the pps job? I smell a rat. We are being steered. Bernie supporters must not give up hope. Clinton invoked 911. Me thinks things are closer than some want us to believe.

[madfloridian]

11. Thanks.

I hope it just makes us stronger. Let's see he had over 10,000..was it last night in Ohio? Their enthusiasm was catching.

Here's part of it:

I saw the whole one somewhere.

[winter is coming]

12. I don't think it's possible for HRC to be overly concerned about her ties to Wall Street

or her debate blunder. That 9/11 comment has the potential to sink her candidacy. I find myself wondering if the endorsements are being rolled out this week while Hillary still has them. If the 9/11 thing takes off, she's toast.

[Mnemosyne]

9. Hear, hear! nt

[immoderate]

10. Thanks, MF.

--imm

[madfloridian]

43. Most welcome

[madfloridian]

13. Appreciate the recs so much.

I figure this will be alerted on a few times. Hope not, but think so.

[Paka]

14. I do hope that line is prophetic...

"inevitability comes before a fall."

Thank you for posting.

[Punkingal]

15. Love your post, and the sincerity comes through loud and clear....

The one thing that REALLY tugs at me that you said is referring to the past primaries here: "This time is different. There is ridicule, there is actually hatred."

Although I don't post much, I mostly lurk, I was a moderator during the 2004 primaries...we were asked to hold our positions as moderators for an extended time rather than new ones come on during the primaries. We thought it was tough then, but it does not hold a candle to how it is now. People say things that would never have been tolerated, and it is just very sad to me. This used to be a very different place. Now there is so much anger and contempt and lack of respect it is appalling.

[madfloridian]

17. Thanks. So much agree with this part of your post:

People say things that would never have been tolerated, and it is just very sad to me. This used to be a very different place. Now there is so much anger and contempt and lack of respect it is appalling.

I am back to being online friends now with those who were opponents in 2004 and 2008. It's like all the arguing never happened.

This time is different. I'm not going to be able to forget some of the things being said by some people I have know here for years. They are too personal, filled with ridicule, and show contempt for those like me who support Bernie Sanders.

I know 9 people I cared for and respected ( and felt like I had their respect) before I came out in support of Bernie. Things really changed then.

[marym625]

18. never would have been tolerated

That's exactly why so very many good posters have left.

[marym625]

16. very great post.

While I feel for you and feel the same in many ways, what I see much more than "inevitable"and disagreement because of it. It's absolute blindness. Blindness in the reality of what Hillary Clinton has done and stands for. Blindness in the great things Bernie Sanders has accomplished. Blindness in how to treat people, even on the internet. And blindness in what our own party has become. So much of that is nothing like the Democratic party of FDR.

Bernie Sanders will be our next President. You can't win without the young people. The young people are not swayed by bullshit.

[madfloridian]

19. You are right about the blindness and denial.

I have felt betrayal as a former teacher to see the callous way harm has been done to public education under this administration, pushed by the Third Way/DLC. Arne, a trusted presidential friend, is leaving without being held accountable for over 3 billion given to charter schools, taken from public schools without any oversight. They can not account for the money.

There's more, but I'd better shut my mouth for the night. Might get up tomorrow and not be able to post.

[marym625]

21. another thing that is unreasonable and mind boggling

The purge of good people, without warning and without reason. People who worked hard, for years, for free, to help build this site in the manner the owners requested. We've watched new posters be tombstoned just for supporting Bernie. Not one thing that breaks the tos, yet, poof!

The No Child Left Behind was one of the worst bills ever. Yet it is excused.

I feel you madflo. Sweet dreams.

[madfloridian]

44. Yes, one of the worst parts.

[blackspade]

20. K&R

[MisterP]

23. because if there's one thing Americans like it's being railroaded by someone who sees their

vote as a mere formality due to her, manipulated by a Bavarian fire drill of "quick, quick, the REPUBLICANS are coming for your family!"

[catchnrelease]

24. Kicking for an excellent post

Your posts never disappoint! They are always perceptive and right on the money, whether it be on education or a more political topic like this one, I know I will learn something.

[madfloridian]

25. .....

Your words mean a lot. Thank you so much.

[senz]

26. Thoughtful OP, mad.

When you wrote,

"I keep thinking about all these young people who are excitedly supporting Bernie. I wonder if the Democratic party will embrace them or shun them."

I thought of the power hunger and conformity that typifies "party" apparatchiks, and the Third Way flavor of much of the DNC, and the fact that these young people are supporting a candidate who is none of those things. It's hard to imagine the Democratic Party welcoming them with open arms -- unless there will be some kind of shakedown within the party.

Change is definitely in the air.

I like to imagine the conversations that Bernie and Jane have about what he's doing and where it's going. I imagine her completely supportive of his running, and I'll bet they feel that wherever this takes them, he has already made a very necessary dent in U.S. politics. He is doing something extremely important. When you think of his entire career, all the things he has fought for, often ignored, in the cynical, sold-out halls of congress, it must be like a dream come true that he is finally reaching so many people, finally being heard, finally stating truths that are not going to go away. His life, his effort, his loyalty to principle and concern for people have not been in vain.

For the sake of our children and grandchildren, for the sake of life on this planet, I hope we will elect him president in 2016.

[Punkingal]

30. Great post!

[madfloridian]

31. Your paragraph...

I thought of the power hunger and conformity that typifies "party" apparatchiks, and the Third Way flavor of much of the DNC, and the fact that these young people are supporting a candidate who is none of those things. It's hard to imagine the Democratic Party welcoming them with open arms -- unless there will be some kind of shakedown within the party.

They didn't welcome Deaniacs with open arms, not likely to embrace us either.

Sadly, they don't want real change. The movement to be more bipartisan has taken over the party. They don't want to be the opposition party, and yes....there will have to be change.

[LongTomH]

35. It's incredible that any Democrat can still talk about 'bipartisanship' with today's Republicans!!!!

The GOP has gone right off the edge of the flat Earth with their racism, xenophobia, and quasi-religious zealotry. How can you reach a reasonable compromise with people whose contact with reality is so tenuous?

They even deny science: "Global Warming and evolution are 'lies from the pit of Hell!'"

[cantbeserious]

27. HRC - Still Beholden To Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks - Untrustworthy - For This Citizen

eom

[madfloridian]

42. ......

Your annoying little bug is bigger than my annoying little bug.

[FloriTexan]

28. KICK!! This is an important post!

I think you put into words what a lot of people are thinking.

[madfloridian]

29. Thank you.

Really didn't want to be bothered this week, but it's so obvious.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

32. KnR! n/t

[madfloridian]

33. Thanks.

K&r appreciated. Would love to see this get more attention.



I've never seen anything like it.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

37. Love you!

We are ahead of where Obama was in 2007. If we win Iowa (and we are very close) all bets are off!

[Fawke Em]

34. Do they want in, though?

You said: "I keep thinking about all these young people who are excitedly supporting Bernie. I wonder if the Democratic party will embrace them or shun them."

My question is: If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, will these young people even want INTO the party? My guess is that they will feel as though old party politics will have failed them and they'll be none to keen to want to work within the Democratic (or Republican) party structure.

I fully expect Hillary to lose the general should she get the nomination because there will be so many liberals who won't vote for her either out of apathy or to make a statement to the party elite and she'll get little to no crossover votes or independent votes.

Even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I expect this to be the watershed moment when things change - either within the Democratic Party or outside, building their own populist structure.

[LongTomH]

36. That's a question I've been pondering, Fawke Em!

If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, will HRC, DWS and the party elites even wait for the general election to begin crushing every vestige of Bernie's Political Revolution? Do the party elites want this new generation of voters?

If Bernie DOES get the nomination, will the party elites, including Hillary, support him in the general election? I kind of expect them to silently sabotage his candidacy, fearing the changes that Bernie and his supporters would make in the party's structure and ideology.

[madfloridian]

38. I agree with your "watershed moment" statement.

[jeff47]

45. IMO, the leadership doesn't think that way.

Instead, they just assume "of course they'll want in". It doesn't occur to them that "the kids" are not particularly fond of marching in lock-step.

It's how Democrats lost the liberal half of GenX to apathy. And they learned nothing from that.

[Fawke Em]

48. I'm an older part of GenX and I have a Millennial son

And... whatever they're called 8 year olds now. LOL.

I know. I get it.

[Enthusiast]

39. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

Well done, madfloridian!

[madfloridian]

40. Thanks.

[madfloridian]

41. I think we too often fail to say what we really feel about some things...

at least I do. I hate the attacks, but I love the truth. Guess they go together now.

[madfloridian]

46. Bernie's pollster has some good news in the new "inevitability" poll results.

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tulchin-Research-Memo-Bernie-Sanders-2016-Public-Polling-Analysis.pdf

[Robbins]

47. Fox came out with NH poll that is basiclly a tie

bernie 45 % Clinton 44% remember those nh polls clinton supporters bragged about showing her with huge lead In NH

they convently didn't poll bernie vs republicans.

This race defently isn't over.i remain convinced this is similar to obama vs clinton In 2007

now DNC under Dean wasn't as corupt as under DWS and obama had more establishment support but it's similar in many ways.

Bernie is doing better with dems now than obama was in 2007 and her lead was exactly larger against Obama than bernie.

the goal is win iowa and NH.then race unfolds.look i think clinton will probally win SC but numbers could change.If Bernie wins iowa and NH i feel he has fighting chance In Nevada.