Well, blow me down. An OP that spoke truth against blatant lies got hidden, in the Sanders group.

[delrem]

What a disgrace!

eta:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128091991

[Old Codger]

1. Saw that post

Jury system is pretty much run out of relevance as far as I can see...

[delrem]

2. The jurors who hid that are creeps.

It was a totally fair post, containing photographic proof.

It was hid because it exposed a lie.

[Old Codger]

3. Like I said

I saw that post there was nothing at all wrong with it also was locked as off topic ? ALL fucked up here and getting worse as time goes by.. pretty much fed up with a place called "democratic" that is as bad as most of the rest of the radical groups spreading their Feces around the web...

Not much "democratic" left here.. probably time to move on..

[Pharaoh]

5. I missed it!

Can you give me a synopsis? Link?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128091991

[99th_Monkey]

7. me too!!!! I have NO idea what this is about, w/out seeing WTF we're taking about. nt

[MissDeeds]

18. I could not agree more

DU is so biased and skewed in favor of HRH and now her supporters even troll our group and alert on posts here.

I was excited about the primary season and was planning to renew my star membership, but not now. There isn't even a facade of being fair and impartial on DU. Why support a site that targets our candidate and his supporters?

I've tried to hang on, but it's just not worth it. I'm about done.

[PyaarRevolution]

4. Confused.

I looked at the post as well and am confused as to why it was locked.

[delrem]

9. Prolly for calling out another DUer, the one who posted the, uh, fib.

I didn't see where it was locked, and I was only commenting on the hide.

I trust the Sanders group mods to be fair about locking. My instincts at play...

The hide, though, is for shit.
In any universe that I want to inhabit there's really no distinction between fibs and fibbers that allows fibbers to walk away, leaving their turds en route like so much signage.

[Fawke Em]

14. It wasn't locked in here.

It was locked by a GD-P mod, not a Bernie Group mod.

It was hidden by jury selection in the Sanders group.

[99th_Monkey]

8. Can SOMEone who knows, please post what this is even about????? Links? n/t

Not going to "Rec" something I can't even see.

[delrem]

10. scroll down.

or
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128091991

login to "unhide". It's pretty damn straightforward.
Someone fibbed about Bernie, and someone else posted proof in the Sanders group that the fib is a fib.

But to be politically correct, we must distinguish fib from fibber, and give fibbers a free ride.

[passiveporcupine]

11. The original thread was about Sanders flying on jets and oh the hypocrisy

So the conversation was going in the thread about how Sanders and Hillary travel for campaign events. Then someone posted this photo and said Bernie was traveling on fancy private busses (IIRC), and Fawk em wanted to correct that in that thread, but it had just been locked. So Fawk em tried to post it in GDP where it was hidden for being improper for that forum (IIRC). Then Fawk em tried posting it here, where it got a hide because you are not supposed to start a thread about a thread that's been hidden.

They were not trying to rehash that thread. Just correct one bit if misinformation left hanging by a Hill supporter who didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

So now this will probably be locked because again we are talking about a thread that has been locked. But we really aren't. We are talking about one post that was incorrect and really should be corrected. Under current rules I guess that is considered going too far.

Edited to add...it was hidden here because Fawk em included the name of the poster who posted the incorrect info. So it was hidden for being a call out thread.

So be careful out there guys...they are coming out of the woodwork lately.

[delrem]

17. DU has become a bit of a joke.

It's what happens when truth itself is openly disrespected.
And it is.
This Dem primary takes the all time prize, it surely does, for going straight into the twilight zone.

[LiberalArkie]

35. The general thought is that the jury system is to protect the Hillary people

against anything that detracts from their omnipotence.

[Fawke Em]

12. It also got locked in GD-P as "meta."

Even though I dropped using the poster's name in the title after the hide here.

Which is funny, considering that anyone who clicked on the link I provide could see who posted it.



Here's the GD-P post if you want to read through it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251966613

[delrem]

13. So, in GD-P one cannot refute a HRC supporter's lie? That's too "meta, baby!"? Cool.

Good to know, as I watch the degeneration of a once vibrant discussion board.

[99th_Monkey]

15. So this is what it is coming to on DU? Sad, is the only word I can think of

to describe how this turns my tummy.

So is this the turning point, where Skinner lowers the hammer on anyone not
agreeing with him?

I'm truly saddened by this, and have no other words.

[Fawke Em]

20. And I made the point in the OP that I had to make an OP

because the other thread was locked. And, it wasn't locked because of THAT particular post. It was locked as being generally off-topic. It wasn't like I was linking to a banned post. I wasn't.

[senz]

32. Here's how I feel about it, Fawke Em --

I enjoy your intelligent, well-informed comments and consider you an extremely valuable asset for Bernie online. What we say here could have an effect on how readers and lurkers vote, so it matters. When DUers get hides, that means they could be at some future point taken away. When it's one of our people, I know I would miss the person's presence on the forum and also their strength as a Bernie supporter. You are a very strong Bernie supporter. You are needed right here.

Now here's the part you might not like. I found the GD-P thread lock stupid and uncalled for; your OP was informative and cleared up a misunderstanding. But when I checked out your OP here in the Bernie Group, I could not believe you had put the commenter's name in the thread title! Fawke Em, that's just asking for a hide. Surely you know that. How could you do that? What on earth were you thinking?

You're important here, so please don't risk hides like that. We need you. Be careful out there.

[delrem]

21. I don't think DU admin has anything to do with it.

Aside from how they immediately cemented their bonds with the HRC campaign, openly and transparently.

So yah, there's that. There're a few questionable pizzas.
But nothing connected with this particular matter.

For that I think the problem is HRC herself, and her people. Henry Kissinger. David Brock. The list doesn't contain many names of people that I'd want to invite home to meet my family, that's for sure. Yet those people seem to hold the reigns of power in the Democratic Party, to control all of the Democratic Party machinery. They define the terms of debate, they define the "center", and they define it all to benefit themselves and their employers' wishes. But it's a hard sell for them, a really hard sell. People are getting tired of it and they're getting desperate.

[PyaarRevolution]

34. Wait...wait. Kissinger is one of her people?

Do you mean friends or just a person working on her campaign. If he's a friend then I would question her choice in friends but it's just that, her choice.
As for being on her campaign, why would she want that War Criminal near her in that respect? Yes, I call him a War Criminal because I think Christopher Hitchens laid out a fairly thorough evaluation is Kissinger proving it, at least in my eyes.

[delrem]

39. Like Hillary Clinton, Henry Kissinger is an ex-SOS.

Hillary Clinton writes glowingly and uncritically about Kissinger - a colleague in a rather exclusive world. In that regard her words are of more emphatic importance, if one cares about such things, than e.g. her words to the Kardashians at some campaign event.
Her public approval of Henry Kissinger, her lack of criticism, tells me about more than her "campaign", or her "friends" (as in Donald Trump, George Bush, etc.), because it tells me how she looks at her JOB, if elected.

Now as to David Brock, he's an employee. He's also scum, and runs her internet outreach operations.

[SoapBox]

16. But...we can still click the Rec button in both posts!

"They" hate TRUTH!

And "they" hate getting called out when "they" lie.

[sonofspy777]

19. What else is new...

Trolls in our group.


Attacked my posts as well...

[Doctor_J]

22. What sucks is that members of the new hate site are allowed to vote on posts in the Sanders

group at all. Ridiculous conflict of interest. Especially since, as demonstrated by the thread that started this whole debacle, one candidate's supporters can't tell fact from fiction.

[delrem]

24. There's a split in the party at least as deep as between D's and R's.

That's my thinking - but I'm a Canadian.

That's why all the loyalty oath threads and subthreads. Daily, and even multiple times daily.

Coupled with total cognitive dissonance with regard to talking about what matters to supporters of Sanders, Warren, O'Malley ...
About that ... they can only say how much they hate liberals and progressives. That's it. That's the best that they can do.
Like they hate Snowden, but that's just the beginning. That's just one tell of many.

I'm watching in awe, trying to grok the MSM dreamscape of Hillary vs Rubio, or Hillary vs Trump, or Hillary vs ... whoever. Because that's the entirety of the MSM dreamscape.
Hillary's supporters know that.
They say, you need money to win so Hillary takes the money because the game is to win, and Hillary is the only Dem who can win for that reason. And they clap their hands and rock back in their chairs and they laugh, like Hillary laughed in her youtube moment "We came. We saw. He died."
Is that bizarre or what?

[MuseRider]

23. This is just infantile behavior.

It changes nothing. Did it change your mind that it got hidden by the all powerful HRH group? Nope, me neither. It brings to mind snickering kindergartners pointing and laughing at someone else. If this is all they have then they are truly fucked.

She may win by hook or crook but I will never be a supporter. I may vote for her but I will never feel she was the right or even an adequate choice. That is too bad but that is what it is for me and I am allowed that. Do her supporters change that? Nope. They do not because I don't care what they say, HRC has a record that I find not adequate to move this country in the right direction. She is, IMO just better than anyone on the Republican side. I wish it was more than that but for me that is where it is. They have done nothing to encourage me to change that feeling, just pointing and snickering and alerting and hiding. I don't think I have alerted more than a few times since 2002 when I joined. I think it is silly most of the time. Now it is just foul play.

Let them play neener neener and feel all powerful. It is childish play. An adult would discuss and present their case. They have no case that fits with anyone in this group so they hide and then alert and judge based only on their fandom. There are others out there who are true supporters, they will talk to us and are not like this. It is the mad group, angry at everything we do or say. I feel sorry for them.

[billhicks76]

29. Hillary And Bill Moved The Center To The Right

Almost singlehandedly. People like them are responsible for guys like Trump and Cruz rising.

[SandersDem]

25. This is exactly why

some good folks created jackpineradicals.

Bernie Supporters Only
http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php

Even though there is work to do here, this is a pleasant place.

[99th_Monkey]

27. Agreed.

as to why JPR was created, but I thought the whole idea of
"protected" groups on DU was that there were "safe places"

oh well... I'm registered at JPR and look fwd to it getting more
bells and whistles.

[LiberalArkie]

36. Groups are safe havens if the groups have certain names.

[99th_Monkey]

37. Not according to the OP and up-string discussions

about this post getting hidden in the Bernie Sanders Group:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128091991

[LiberalArkie]

38. So obviously the group did not have the correct name to be a safe haven.

[JDPriestly]

26. I just disembarked from an Amtrak train at 6:55.

That picture of Bernie was definitely taken on an Amtrak train.

The tray that pushes up like that, the windows, the arm on the seat -- all Amtrak.

I would bet my life on it. I ride those trains quite frequently, and as I said, I just got off one about three hours ago.

The person who posted the original thread should explain.

[Feeling the Bern]

28. Juries are pathetic. All they do is stiffle unpopular speech and protect the cliques and clans

that are here.

Based on some of the juries I've been on and the results, we're better not having them. Some people are targeted. I've had two very questionable hides, hides I don't agree with.

Sadly, there is no appeal to a hide. A jury's decision is final.

[Orrex]

30. Do you suppose it might have been hidden for calling out another DUer as a liar?

[Fawke Em]

31. So, if they are lying and it was proven, which it was, what is the problem?

Seriously, I'd like to know.

When I didn't use the poster's name, but still linked to their post where they lied and called the Amtrak a "luxury bus" (even if they were making it up as they went along, that's still a lie), the post was allowed to stand until it was locked for being off-topic. Anyone who clicked on the link could see who wrote it, so what's the difference?

[Orrex]

33. Post your question in ATA

Last edited Sat Jan 2, 2016, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

I've had posts hidden for calling out liars as well, even when I've responded in-thread and directly proven the lie. I've also been a juror on a few posts that were alerted on for calling someone a liar. And I've seen posts allowed to stand dspite calling someone a liar, when jurors have specifically stated that the subject justified it.

I believe that this was actually part of the TOS on DU2? Maybe longer-term DUers still serve on juries with that in mind.

It's not a static system, and yes there's variance from one post to another, but that's how it goes. It's also a mistake to think that posting in a "protected group" means that juries will automatically give it a pass.

If it troubles you, you should post your question in ATA to get the official position.