I've got to think the teeth-grinding in Admin is escalating to dangerous heights over Bernie

[Proserpina]

For when a site that has sold its soul to one candidate finds that its success, fame, and its very economic survival hinge upon the opponent's supporters, something has to give.

The first thing that on DU gave was civility, with the Swarm, the alert-abuses, the nitpicking PC vigilantees and the intimidation practiced daily.

The second thing that gave was the equitable treatment written in the Terms of Service, where people go MONTHS waiting for "review in 3 days" that never comes. There's formal "tombstoning", and then there's the "benign neglect" form. Neither of these is administered in a non-partisan, reasonable way, and bring no credit to the Admin or their lackeys.

What will be the NEXT inhospitality inflicted upon the visiting public? People who posted here for a decade no longer visit, even to say Hi. Some have died, but the others have been banned or quietly (or not so quietly) left in disgust. DU is bleeding of self-inflicted wounds, losing some of the most thoughtful, articulate and committed people any political party would be glad to have on their side.

It is social Darwinism at work...and while one would hope that people who could imagine a place like DU would be able to sustain the principles that made it what it was, all evidence to the contrary suggests that extinction is coming for this once reputable, proud and worthy website.

It's like cancer at Stage 4. No hope of recovery.

What is DU going to do when Bernie wins the nomination, and then the White House? Ever heard of the Black Swan event?

A Black Swan event is an event in human history that was unprecedented and unexpected at the point in time it occurred. However, after evaluating the surrounding context, domain experts (and in some cases even laymen) can usually conclude: “it was bound to happen”.

The US has been peltered by a continuous migration of black swans this century....and Bernie is the logical outcome of them all.

[Android3.14]

1. I kind of think the admins are coming around

Something shifted in December.

[Proserpina]

2. I thought so, myself, and was swiftly disabused of that notion

[Betty Karlson]

92. What disabused you of the notion? eom

[Flying Squirrel]

37. You'll know they're coming around

If something positive about Bernie ever makes "The Left Column."

[SoLeftIAmRight]

45. good point

thanks

[nashville_brook]

50. the arctic is heating up, so hell just might freeze over

[Flying Squirrel]

108. Hey, check it out!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251997793

It's a cold day in hell today.

[Dustlawyer]

96. It's been stuck on Hilary smacking Trump forever. The stories don't change at all anymore.

[merrily]

54. After MannyGoldstein got banned

and, with a few days, over 600 posters registered at his new message board home (www.jackpineradicals.org) ?

[sabrina 1]

107. Partisanship is on the wane in this country. Partisan forums will soon be a thing of the past. The

largest voting bloc in the country right now for the first time, is registered Independents. They have 45% right now of registered voters, while both parties are losing members.

Soon, registered Indies will be larger than both parties membership combined as more and more voters realize, that the 'red/blue divide and conquer strategy of those in power, kept us fighting with each other while those in power tore our country apart.

It was great for the greedy, corrupt Corporate entities who kept us fighting among ourselves. When Dems were out of power, we were united against Repubs which didn't stop the Corps from getting what they wanted.

When Dems were in power, we heard the excuses 'we can't get Repubs on board etc etc'

They thought we were too stupid to see the left/right game they were playing.

But there are issues that are so important to ALL AMERICANS, excluding the rabid fringes of society, that people began to realize 'We need to UNITE on those issues and get these Corps our of our government'. THEN we can argue over how to proceed.

The first indication that partisanship was becoming a thing of the past, was OWS. THAT is why it was so brutally crushed,

Because they know, and we know, that 'the people united will never be defeated' which is why they kept us divided, until now.

[peacebird]

3. Perhaps when the admins notice a precipitous drop in star memberships?

My money now goes other places & I will not be renewing my star when it expires next month.

[MissDeeds]

4. Same here

I won't donate to a site that supports a candidate I don't. As it is, I spend less and less time here.

[LiberalElite]

38. Welcome to DU!

[MissDeeds]

40. Hi Luckybastian

The site administrators very early in the primary season openly threw their support to Hillary Clinton. This occurred even before we knew who all the primary candidates would be.

Welcome to DU.

[merrily]

57. Hi, Luckybastian, welcome to DU.

In April, a poll was taken. It included only Hillary or Bernie. About 91% of those who participated in the poll chose Bernie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026592890

Until that poll, I thought DU's left was a minority. As soon as Hillary announced, the admins threw their support to her in several obvious ways and less obvious ways. One of the obvious ways was creating another website just to support Hillary. I believe it's called Hillary Mojo or something like that.

The obvious ways in which Hillary is supported are fine with me. Each of us has a right to choose a primary candidate. However, other things that have been alleged, if true, would be a problem for me.

[merrily]

55. The admins have a right to choose a different candidate than I do, but partiality vis a vis posters

based on who they support in the primary is problematic.

[cui bono]

85. +1

and so I regret to inform you that I will not be giving you a Valentine heart this year.

hehe...

.

[merrily]

90. Nooooo problem. I love you anyway.

[Proserpina]

5. You aren't the first, and so far, it's gone unnoticed

which makes me speculate on other, sub-rosa income streams...which will dry up next year, and then where will it be?

[jwirr]

49. +1

[Cassiopeia]

6. IBTH

I'm sure your alert is coming shortly.

[Proserpina]

7. You know, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about

Thank you for so promptly proving my thesis...

a threat, an attempt at intimidation, and no doubt, an alert on its way by people that really hate us for our freedoms.

[Cassiopeia]

8. If you can't argue the point, just hide it.

That's become the mantra of some on DU.

[merrily]

59. It's not about any point. It's about posters who support Bernie Sanders.

It's about getting them banned or driving them off. http://www.democraticunderground.com/128080259

[LiberalElite]

9. Results of Jury Service - (I was Juror #3)

On Sun Jan 3, 2016, 10:06 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I've got to think the teeth-grinding in Admin is escalating to dangerous heights over Bernie
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128092488

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is the definition of disruptive meta. It's trolling, it's rude, and it's like taking a shit on the rug when you are a guest in someone else's home. Please vote to hide this, and admins, please take a close look at this poster--you'd better believe it when I say I think this person doesn't have the best interests of DU at heart based on this and other posts. The people who recommended this piece of garbage should be ashamed of themselves.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 3, 2016, 10:14 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Disruptive Meta is banned in the main forums. This is in a Group and this post is up to the Group hosts to handle.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's meta, but passions are running high.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter proved Prosperpina's point. Get the heck out of a protected group.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert should be hidden
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Proserpina]

10. I thank the jury for their honest and factual consideration

and shame on those who voted to hide, for not even having the courtesy of an explanation of their vote!

Of course, some things are not explainable in a way that would pass any kind of smell test....



And excuse my presumption, but I thought DU was OUR home, Miss/ter Alerter! You know, Democrats?

[hootinholler]

13. The phrase You better believe it is a dog whistle

Referring to a controversial member long ago banned.

There are a few uber third way conservadems that use it here, and then I imagine snicker to themselves about their cleverness.

[Proserpina]

16. Thanks for that clue

[merrily]

61. Every bit as clever the fourth or fifth hundredth time they use it, too!

Talk about trolling! Posting the same dumb comment, meant to be provocative, on every thread should be part of the dictionary definition of trolling.

[PyaarRevolution]

29. Wonder that myself.

I agree that they should've explained why they want to hide the topic.

I've just recently joined DU because it seems like the de-facto place Thom Hartmann goes to and posts(callers may have talked about it as well). Two times I've already seen topics around being alerted, both of which don't need to be hid(yours is one).

[Old Codger]

34. Probably

Don't want to write "because I am an idiot" as an explanation...

[Warren Stupidity]

18. That was close.

[nxylas]

19. Who gets to vote on these alerts?

Are only people who are subscribed to the group selected for juries voting on group posts, or do, ahem, other people get a vote too?

[Proserpina]

25. Semi-random selection of logged-in members with jury privileges

which can be gamed, and frequently is. It's a crapshoot, in other words.

But as Rhett Butler said, when he'd had enough of Scarlett's histrionics: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!"

This particular alerter has been stalking me since I started posting.

[marble falls]

93. I do. And I donate just to be on the juries. If we're going to be alert...

abused, we'd better be on the juries, don't you think?

This thread hung on because of ONE juror. I'd have voted to 'leave it', too.

I'm on juries almost daily. I am part of a lot of bum alerts that get booted 4-3. And I am on MIRT as much as I can be on it.

Its no paranoia. There is a group that wants all Sandersnistas out of here.

[AllyCat]

95. I had not thought of that, marble falls.

Had not renewed my star membership because of the venom I saw coming from other DUers. And they seemed to get away with it. But I don't serve on as many juries as I used to. Now I know why.

[marble falls]

98. We have to take care of us if we expect to stay the majority.

[corkhead]

22. RE the alerter; since when are we supposed to "have the best interests of DU at heart"

the illusion of a free exchange of ideas is why I am here. When I have to take a loyalty oath that is in conflict with my best interests is when I will stop coming here.

[dorkzilla]

27. It’s only the “best interests” when it comes from the alerter’s POV

Seriously...this is ridiculous. I wonder if the admins had any kind of reckoning when they asked for donations a couple of weeks ago and didn’t get the support they expected? Because this backbiting isn’t endearing anyone.

[Proserpina]

28. I saw that. Talk about bad timing!

and I'm not referring to Xmas. Do you know for a fact that they didn't get to pay out the "bonuses" to themselves, or are you making an educated guess?

[dorkzilla]

70. Its a hunch

but anecdotally no one I am virtual friends with on this site donated, but then nearly all my friends are “BernieBots”.

[merrily]

62. The right has always been big on loyalty oaths, whether the right of the right, or the

right of the center right.

"Best interests of DU" actually means the best interests of the alerter. Knee jerk alerts, especially those that speak of things like sh*tting on the rug, are not in the best interests of DU. Neither are attempts to run off the vast majority of DU's posters, even after a jury votes "Leave."

[cui bono]

86. Also, we're not "guests" here. We ARE DU. That's how it works.

If we weren't here there would be no DU.

.

[merrily]

91. True. Without posters....

That is why trying to get posters banned or run them off is not in the best interests of DU, only the goal of the alert squad.

[Doctor_J]

23. Juries should not be part of protected groups IMO.

Those hillarians who insist on helicoptering this group should either complain to the admins or stay the hell away. I don't even go to the BOG or HRC group, believing it is protected from shit-stirrers. These people who alert posts just to get pro-Sanders posts (and posters) taken down are pathetic.

[corkhead]

35. I have the goups you mentioned trashed so I won't inadvertently post in them or unnecessarily

raise my blood pressure. From my vantage point, the only reason for me to want to post there is to stir shit like you said. I am not interested in doing that. Trolling in a group you don't want to be a part of is a desperate act. In a way that can be intepreted as a good sign. They are afraid it is going to be 2008 all over again.

They should be.

[Autumn]

36. Oh my. Rec shaming seems to be all the rage.

rec.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

47. yea

but much too close

[Enthusiast]

48. Pffft! "This alert should be hidden."

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Bubzer]

101. Yeah, That one got a chuckle from me too

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. Hold on,...I have the perfect graphic for that....

[AllyCat]

100. How can you tell who alerted?

Someone downstream posted that this person alerted on him/her before. How does one know? When I'm on juries, I have no idea who alerted.

[QC]

102. SOP alerts carry the alerter's name.

For this forum, most SOP alerts come from the same two or three people who seem to spend an inordinate amount of time monitoring this group.

[hootinholler]

11. First, IBTL

Spot on analysis.

It's all part of the drama of primary season, doncha know!

It's a fucking shame, it is. But many of us have moved on, and stop here only to support the stragglers or to whack the hornets nest with a stick.

[Proserpina]

12. How did I miss that first one?

Amazing.

I fail to see why, in the Bernie group, this post should be locked for any reason. Dislike is not a sufficient or reasonable excuse. It's already run the Alert gauntlet, successfully. It's not going to vanish....

#2: Civility, huh? I could go and find some 50 examples monstrously uncivil discourse in 10 minutes, if I felt it would make any difference to daily operations.

[hootinholler]

14. I look forward to the flood of SOP alerts

I might just post them this time.

[Proserpina]

17. What is SOP?

Standard operating procedures?

[bvf]

20. I think it's "statement of purpose." n/t

[hootinholler]

24. bvf has it correct

Statment Of Purpose alerts go to the hosts for consideration of locking.

[merrily]

63. In my opinion, all alerts and results should be posted. Real life courtrooms are open, with a right

in the accused--a Constitutional right, I might add--to face his, her or its accusers. When I serve as a juror, I try to post the results for transparency.

[passiveporcupine]

77. And all jurors should have to give a reason for their choice

[merrily]

89. I usually give a reason, but sometimes I am just in a hurry.

And some alerts are so ridiculous they are not worth the effort, IMO.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. Black Swan event.

Absolutely agree that it's happening. Where it ends up in this day when we can't even count on electronic voting machines, I don't know.

[nashville_brook]

21. it's the same as what's happened to the base in the party as a whole.

[Proserpina]

26. Black Swan Event

another name for it is "revolution", when some small portion of society thinks it has the rest in a hammerlock, and is thoroughly disabused of that notion.

It is exactly that "hammerlock" that brought Bernie and all his supporters out to fight. The banksters and their bought and paid for legislators, the corruption of the Supreme Court, the multinational corporations and their TPP coup....and here, on this tiny universe in miniature, we see the same pattern.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Statistically speaking

If Bernie supporters out number hillary supporters
3 to one over all on the site then the jury system should support that equation but it doesn't does it?

[Proserpina]

32. As has been pointed out in various posts on the topic, the system can be gamed

1) by forcing Bernie supporters out of the jury pool via alerts, reviews and tombstoning

2) by co-ordinated "swarm" operations, terrorist in nature and intent, usually at low-attendance times

3) by constant browser refreshing to keep signaling ones availability to the computerized jury selection system.

4) and of course, if one doesn't subscribe to the star system, one's chances of being asked to serve are greatly diminished...as if a reasonable and neutral person would pay for the privilege of taking such abuse!

5) by members switching over to JPR in disgust over the destruction of what was once a valuable and thriving community, thus depleting the available pool further.

"Some animals are more equal than others"---George Orwell

[artislife]

33. Didn't know the about the refreshing the browser....nt

[hootinholler]

39. It's more effective if you have a place offsite to coordinate

When the alert is sent to notify a pool of members to refresh their browsers.

I have no proof this is happening, but I'm fairly certain it is especially given what is being hidden these days.

[artislife]

51. I have been meeting a lot of new posters who have use the same language pattern of old posters.

This only makes them all look bad.

[Proserpina]

52. How, pray tell, does it make anyone look bad?

Makes it look like a game, is all. A game which only the Admin is going to lose when they can't afford their shiny new server because they've alienated the customer base that used to pay the bills.

[artislife]

56. So like them to want to win the battle but lose the war....nt

[Proserpina]

58. To which them are you referring as losing the war?

I'm having trouble following.

[merrily]

67. I doubt poster donations are paying the bills.

[Proserpina]

68. Something must be

[merrily]

69. Indeed. Donations and ads are certainly at least part of it.

[Bubzer]

103. For sites like this, demographics and ad revenue are usually the big-ticket items.

And, if someone were inclined to boycott the site admins, I'd direct them to use one of the many ad-blockers listed at these links:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/565-best-adblockers-privacy-extensions.html

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/10-ad-blocking-extensions-tested-for-best-performance/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/139515/article.html

[merrily]

104. Good info in general. I don't see ads here, though, being a donor.

[antigop]

105. Aren't ad revenues based upon site traffic? If so, then posters who post stuff that will generate

lots of replies will help boost the site numbers and the site can charge more for ads, right?

[merrily]

106. Sometimes, revenues are tied to clicks (on the ads themselves).

I don't know what the deal here is as far as ads. However, no posters, no posts; no posts, no site.

[winter is coming]

84. I would have said it makes them look fuzzy. n/t

[fasttense]

42. It's all about these protected groups that can ban lifelong (10 or more years) DU members

Who have clean posting records with very few post deletions or banning.

If I were a Right Wing infiltrator, I would set up a group that I know the majority of DU members don't like. Like for example a pro-Hillary group or a pro-conservative group. Since the majority of DU members are Bernie supporters and liberals this group can ban the majority of members just because. This would allow them to make a point of banning members with long histories and few problems.

Banning as many active, problem free members as the group's founders are able to get away with, will create a hostile environment on DU that promotes arbitrary and capricious controls on posts. Long term members will come less frequently and the membership could decline low enough to make DU a shadow of itself.

These special protected groups should be controlled on who they ban to prevent this type of behavior.

[Proserpina]

44. the problem is not the protected groups

it's the protected PEOPLE who go around destroying the comity with their fanaticism, which increases with every indicator that says that their worldview and Chosen One is a classic NO SALE.

They can close themselves in their protected group, and shut out the rest of the world.

They can make enemies of natural allies and neutral persons by abusing people and systems.

They can lie, cheat, and steal.

But they cannot close the sale by pissing off the customers.

So as a tactic to win hearts and influence people, I'd rate their efforts as F minus...

[Babel_17]

60. Nonsense alerts to deplete the jury pool

Those doing the gaming stay out of those. That's partly why you sometimes see those seven to zero votes to leave a post alone.

[itsrobert]

43. Let me try to be helpful

Mostly, people who post on a thread in the "Bernie Sanders (Group)" are supporters of Bernie Sanders. Now, if someone alerts on a thread such as this in the Bernie Sanders (Group) then all those that have posted on that thread when the jury is summoned are excluded from the Jury pool. (correct me if I am wrong). The jury pool is from people who currently are online, so chances are that the jury pool will not be a true representative of the current candidate support breakdown.

Those with a "Star" and have no "hides" have a better chance for jury selection. Some people in the Bernie Group have expressed their displeasure with DU and vowed not to support DU with a donation to get a "star". So there again is another reason why the jury may not be a true representative of DU.

Also, you can blacklist members you do not want on your jury. But again, if you have a "star" you can blacklist more members from a potential jury.

What I have done is have my "Star". That gives me 15 members to blacklist. So, next step, who is more likely to alert on one of my post, fairly or unfairly? Who are what are they supporting? Well, DU has groups. For example, if I support gun control, I can go to a group where the pro "2nd Amendment" people hang out. So, i could throw as many as 15 of them on my blacklist. So if I was to slip and post "gun nut" in a post, I have already excluded 15 of people who might get most offended by the term "gun nut".

The system is broke. I'll admit that.

[arikara]

87. I don't post much

although I do a lot of reading so I get selected for quite a few juries. The vast majority of the Bernie alerts are total bullshit. To be fair, much as I dislike her if a Hillary alert is bullshit I vote to leave it too.

Once I realized that if you have somebody on your ignore list you won't get on their jury I took everyone off. I just can't with some of those people.

How do you know if something has been alerted on if its voted to be left? I don't even know if I've ever been alerted on.

[merrily]

65. In addition to the things Proserpina cited, the left is likelier to let a post

stand. Also, if the left is coordinating in any way, no one informed me. Then again, no one informed me when Bernie supporters took over the internet so that only Bernie can win internet polls. http://www.democraticunderground.com/128083341

[Proserpina]

73. LOL!

You're killing me, Merrily! Now I know where you got that lovely name. Have you ever giggled with a migraine? It's painful!

[merrily]

88. Coincidentally, I just typed "Laughing is very good." I've

never giggled with a migraine. However, I did laugh right after my appendix was removed, when I was 12. That hurt, and my cousin would not stop trying to make me laugh. People!

[Leith]

41. Karl Rove Is Laughing and Rubbing His Hands Together

We are liberals and Democrats here, yet people are at each others' throats. It has got so bad that I'm afraid to post on DU these days.

[Proserpina]

46. The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.

[merrily]

66. I doubt Karl Rove worries about what's going on at DU, one way or the other.

[mopinko]

64. i seriously doubt it.

admin does not like to ban people. btw, they have no lackeys. the only ones who ban someone w more than 100 posts is admin.

all in all, the horse race makes money for them. conflict=clicks. they may personally have their opinions, but it is a stretch to think that they dislike the bernie supporters. if it had been just hillary running, this place would be a ghost town.
people come and people go. all in all, they have a money maker on their hands. they dont want to screw with it, least of all by trying to push their own candidate.

having been a mod for quite a while, i have never seen anything of the sort. they were as exasperated over the pumas as everyone else.
they are extremely fair minded people.

[Puglover]

71. I agree.

I have seen them do some bone headed things but ultimately both Skinner and Earlg are fair minded guys.

They do not like banning long term members but still I wonder why blatant homophobic members are allowed to post with impunity while others get the ban hammer but quick over a post that any fair minded person would have deemed nebulous at best.

Whatevs, I have always and will always said, DU is their living room to use as they wish. And anyone that doubts that is foolish.

That said alerts that are not in good faith are not going to have a positive outcome for the alerters. At least in this forum.

[TM99]

72. Two alerts on this have been received.

The jury system let it stand.

If Admin has an issue with this, Admin can deal with the poster themselves.

Therefore, for now, no I will not lock this thread.

[Prism]

74. I wonder if the SOPers alert pro-Clinton threads

Somehow, I'm skeptical. I just don't understand why they think Sanders hosts will bow to their censorship demands in the Sanders group. Awfully presumptuous and awfully silly.

I almost never alert. I think I can count the number of jury alerts I've sent on DU3 on one hand (at least, non-MIRT related ones).

I don't understand this need to hang around DU all day and constantly monitor everyone else's "acceptable behavior".

By now, you'd think they'd have figured out the hosts aren't going to go, "Hey, you know, this incredibly biased Clinton supporter with an axe to grind is right! They should be the ones monitoring the group!" Pft. People need better hobbies.

The SOP mails are entertaining reads, though.

[TM99]

75. The accusation in the latest alert

is that the OP is a sock.

If that accusation holds any semblance of truth, only Admin could deal with it anyway.

I am NOT locking this thread, so please Clintonites, stop alerting it!

[marble falls]

94. Yes, they do. I don't alert much, I get on a jury almost every day and...

that's why I keep my star up and why I try to be on MIRT whenever possible. We need to be on the square and protect ourselves from those who aren't.

[QC]

78. Pulling one's waist too high can really twist the ole panties.

At least that's my impression.

[Autumn]

79. .

[yardwork]

82. Sorry about that. I didn't realize it was in this group.

I alerted on this as meta, thinking it was in GD-P. I realized later it's in the Sanders group. Sorry.

[Proserpina]

80. What?

[PyaarRevolution]

81. Huh?

Is that a joke?

[Autumn]

83. What a ridiculous post. You don't like the OP take it up with the admins

[Bubzer]

97. I thought it interesting that the Admins did a plea for early donations after PPRing Manny

Equally interesting was that the admin in question stated they wouldn't be able to pay a bonus...a BONUS to one of their admins, without the early payment. Less than a quarter of Americans get bonuses... about 22% in fact.

There's been the audacity to PPR Bernie Sanders supporters, while turning a blind eye to similar and worse actions by hillary supporters, and then having the utter gal to ask for a BONUS?!?

I wont pay for the "privilege" of having my fellow Bernie supporters be treated unfairly by biased admins.

[Hotler]

99. .......