Not too thrilled with Biden

[Dirty Socialist]

I know Biden seems to be the one with the best chance of beating Trump, but I am not too thrilled with him. For one thing, he is old. Also, when he debated Sarah Paln, an intellectually unarmed buffoon, he only landed one good punch. Trump provides a cornucopia of debate KO opportunities, but Biden doesn't seem like a very good debater.

[Quackers]

1. Not sure if sarcasm or....

He’s your choice in he primary.

[True Dough]

6. Neither of us need the intellect of Pete Buttigieg

to see the incongruity of the OP and the supported candidate!

[LakeArenal]

2. Love me Some Biden.

[Honeycombe8]

3. ??? Why are you supporting him, then? This is confusing. nt

[still_one]

20. I have some swamp land in Arizona I could sell ya also

[Skya Rhen]

4. So, although you believe that Biden can beat Trump - you do not like him because, in your words,

"he is old"...

This is blatant ageism and this should not be tolerated on DU.

[emmaverybo]

8. Thank you.

[Honeycombe8]

18. I'm over 60 & don't think all discussions & opinions about a candidate's age constitute "ageism."

Age is a valid consideration when deciding on a candidate for the highest office in the land, and the job involves a grueling four year stint.

Just as being too young w/o enough life experiences is a valid opinion, so is being too old w/too much of a history in the past.

Age is as valid as health, charisma & likability, race, gender, and other things that one is born with.

Don't we discuss the wisdom of having two white males on the ticket? Or the chances of a gay person being elected? Didn't we discuss how Obama's race would affect his electability? And the impact of Hillary's gender on the election?

I wish posters would be more specific in the their concern other than saying "too old." They mean something more specific, not just a number. But people get tired of saying that and tend to shorten it to "his age." The specific age-related reasons have been mentioned in DU a number of times.

But we can ask the OP what it is about Biden's age that he thinks is bad.

[metroins]

29. I agree with you. nt

[Demit]

30. I agree with you completely. The fact that age affects performance is a valid concern.

When it's physical that's one concern; when it's mental that's another. We like to see our presidents be fit & active, but that's not as important as mental sharpness—mental vitality, being able to think on one's feet when confronted with a new situation. I think the debates will be very helpful in observing how sharp all the candidates are.

[oldsoftie]

31. But you are blessed with common sense.

Seems that these days any discussion about age/exeprience/attitude/demeanor/etc is considered an "ism" of some kind.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. Age of ideas, savvyness, and wit. (vs. physical age )

[mr_lebowski]

34. Agreed, well said (nt)

[wasupaloopa]

44. When you say someone is old many times it is assumed the person is lacking physically or

mentally. “Old” has stereotype connotation. I think that is the case with the OP and your reply.

The truth is people do not age alike. Old may be a handicap but not always.

[Honeycombe8]

73. Yes, I did reference that shorthand in my post.

My post was not saying that I agreed with the OP, since he didn't give the specific reasons for not wanting Biden because he is "too old." But I did say that people tend to shorthand it sometimes because they are tired of listing out the reasons, which are well known by now.

I also said that not ALL discussions about age represent ageism (whether young or old). That means that some do. Clearly, there are some people who don't want someone "old" because they don't like that demographic just generally, just like some people aren't comfortable with a female as Commander in Chief. I'd say that gets into discrimination, since it objects to someone based solely on who and what they are, rather than any valid reasons that people could have an intelligent discussion about.

People can disagree whether those age reasons apply to Biden or Sanders or Buttegieg (too young) and others. But to have that discussion in the first place isn't ipso facto ageism, IMO.

[Nuggets]

58. So we should ask Ruth Bader Ginsburg to step down, am I right?

[The Mouth]

62. Personally, I'm offended

also by 'concerns' about whites, or males. The 'too old' line is also utterly offensive and if the person were in front of me I'd be tempted to say stuff that I don't want online. Ageists are just as obnoxious as racists or sexists.

A person is either able to get elected and do the job or they aren't.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. I'm with you... though I'm not currently a big supporter of Biden in the primary race

there is no place for descriminating against Joe, or anyone, for that matter, based on ageism. Joe still has all his physical and mental faculties... so, as long as he's capable of serving, and picks a capable VP to replace him - in the unlikely event he is incapacitated - that should be good enough. That leaves only the issues for debating the strength of his candidacy.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Peacetrain]

63. OOPS sorry InAb..

meant this post for the op

[Gothmog]

5. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available

[Dirty Socialist]

7. I have mixed emotions

He is electable, but he lets debate opportunities slip away.
As for ageism, sorry. When you're 76, you should think about enjoying your golden years. Being president is extremely taxing, especially when following a traitor, so you better pick a good running mate.
I would vote for him in a general election, but I will look for someone else in the primaries.

[highplainsdem]

10. Since we're still in the primaries and you just made it clear you won't vote for Biden, you should

change your preference to Undecided.

I can't imagine why you set your preference for Biden, unless you thought it would let you post criticism of him in the Biden group, which would be a misuse of it.

[George II]

11. I think Biden should think about what he wants to think about.....

You realize you would have farmed out Jimmy Carter about 20 years ago as he approached 76 years old. How would that have worked out?

[Demit]

32. ? Jimmy Carter wasn't running for president 20 years ago.

[Skya Rhen]

14. So you care more about him enjoying his golden years than you care about him beating Trump.

If he and his family are ok with his choice as to how to spend his "golden years", how does this come before you?

[radical noodle]

16. At the time I believe

that there was a discussion about how rough Biden could be on Palin, a moronic woman who stabbed herself in the foot regularly. Biden did a fine job debating Ryan.

[Honeycombe8]

19. Do you know that your posts have the Biden pic & logo as the nominee you support?

That's what people are asking about.

[highplainsdem]

25. He knows. He apparently dropped into this forum to post here for the first time to antagonize Biden

supporters.

[Skya Rhen]

40. And I'm amazed that so many are agreeing with OP's "concern" SMH

I admit that this is antagonizing me. Some others? Not so much...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Perhaps, but, Joe's debating skills, which are not too shabby, have nothing to with age.

So, I say leave the ageism out of the conversation... Joe is still mentally sharp and every candidate let's some debate opportunities slip away.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[emmaverybo]

9. Please stop supporting him. He does not need "support" like this.

[Dirty Socialist]

13. I won't

I will support someone else during the primaries.
I will support him if he wins the nomination. I just hope he absolutely obliterates Trump in the debates, Which isn't difficult.

[highplainsdem]

21. According to DU rules for this forum, your preference represents your preference in the PRIMARIES.

You're breaking those rules by having Biden as your preference when you post to attack him and say you'll support someone else during the primaries.

Either change your preference to Undecided or pick another candidate as your primaries preference.

[emmaverybo]

37. THIS!

[FloridaBlues]

46. Debates are not the end all be all of winning election either primary or general.

Yes they can help the candidates but it's just part of the election puzzle.
If VP Biden wanted to spend his years watching the sunset he would have made that decision but he has chosen to run this campaign.

[The Mouth]

64. Witness that Hillary EVISCERATED Trump in every debate

Ripped him a new asshole and gutted him like a fish.

[FloridaBlues]

68. Exactly

[TwilightZone]

12. He stomped on Paul Ryan in the VP debate.

I'd have to disagree with your assertion.

[Dirty Socialist]

15. I didn't see that

I only saw his mediocre debate against Simple Sarah.

[emmaverybo]

42. Maybe, next time, before you post about a Dem primary candidate, you should do your due

diligence. Did you see Joe on apartheid with the Secretary of State? Seen any of his many speeches? No. What a sneaky deal. And as has been pointed out to you, your post is in violation.
In All about Eve, George Sanders says to Marilyn Monroe, “ You have a point. A stupid one, but you do have a point. “ paraphrasing and don’t recall the character names.

[revmclaren]

56. I see you suddenly changed from Biden to Undecided....

Too Late. We see you...



Bookmarked.

Only!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Blue_true]

91. He absolutely kicked Lyin Ryan's ass.

My guess is the Palin one was in difference to her. A second one she would not have gotten a pass.

[Dirty Socialist]

17. I would like to see a video of that

Ryan is smarter than Trump. Defeating Ryan in a debate would change my mind about him.

[BeyondGeography]

23. Poster is 100% correct

Biden helped turn the 2012 campaign around with that performance. He pushed Ryan all over the stage.

I share your concerns on the age front. He will turn 78 next November. One should be able to note that as a concern without being called ageist.

[highplainsdem]

26. You can google it, or check YouTube.

[Dirty Socialist]

36. I checked it out

He did pretty good. Not great, but pretty good.
He kept smiling and laughing. That might make Trump blow his top, which would be pretty funny.

[Demit]

39. Ryan might be smarter than Trump, but Trump is more cunning.

He doesn't politely follow the framing of the person he's talking to, and he won't do it during a debate either. He'll ignore the subject and turn it to what he wants to say, or what insult he wants to make.

That is, if he even deigns to do any debates at all. I can see him refusing to bother. What are rules, what is tradition, to him?

[LanternWaste]

71. I'd imagine anyone but an "intellectually unarmed buffoon" could find the video.

[Dirty Socialist]

74. I posted earlier

That I found a video of the debate. Keep up to date!

[BootinUp]

88. True that.

[Mr.Bill]

22. He didn't need to beat up Sarah Palin.

She was doing such a good job of that herself.

[Kahuna7]

24. Mr. Biden has a message for you....

[oldsoftie]

27. Well, a dozen yrs ago he probably didnt want to look like he was roughing up a woman.

Of course, this election he'd be accused of roughing up a child.

[still_one]

28. You have made it clear you won't vote for him in the primaries. Multiple people have asked you to

change your candidate preference in that case.

You are either intentionally igniting that, don’t know how to change the preference, and seem not to care to ask how

and you say Biden isn’t a good debater?

[stonecutter357]

35. Cool Story, Bro , !

[Dirty Socialist]

38. I changed to undecided

[Kurt V.]

43. You're a hoot. hehe.

[still_one]

45. Thank-you

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. For old times sake.. video of full debate

I distinctly remember back then that it was thought very important that Biden didn't fight in any way that seemed personal or female bashing. Sure that mantra tied his hands a bit.

[still_one]

50. Thank-you Laura, and your assesment of the situation was right on. Biden also did exactly what he

needed to do, and without belittling or demeaning her.

It was obvious he was holding back, but it was intentional as you pointed out, and that fact in itself demonstrated his skill

[The Mouth]

66. My perception, too

Only the second female candidate to make a national presidential major party team, and one with a sympathetic story and charisma. Not the person to smack all over the stage and humiliate; it was enough to just win.

[still_one]

77. My impression to

[The Mouth]

85. All Joe needed to do

was to illustrate that she probably shouldn't be President. Anything more than that, like a gratuitous beat-down and humiliation, would have been counterproductive, like a cop beating the shit out of someone after they have them subdued = backfire.

[Thekaspervote]

47. Why not just trash this thread instead of responding? Seriously

[yardwork]

48. I don't think that debates matter at all in terms of electability.

As a boomer myself, I agree with your point about Biden's age. Let's see how the primaries go. We will have lots of time to assess how well all our candidates think on their feet, and assess their strength and resiliency on the campaign trail.

[murielm99]

51. The debates can matter

if there is some huge gaffe.

In politics, things can turn on a dime. A month is an eternity. Let's just wait and see.

FWIW, Biden is not my first choice, but I would vote for him with no qualms.

[yardwork]

53. Trump made numerous gaffes - didn't matter at all to his supporters.

[highplainsdem]

67. Debates mattered more years ago. Now there's so much more exposure for all candidates via cable news

and social media that debates are much less important.

[JI7]

54. his goal of the Palin debate was NOT to land punches but still win

which he did.

[Loki Liesmith]

55. Vote your heart in the primary

Vote your head in the general.

Seriously advocate for someone you are thrilllee with. It’ll work out.

[OhZone]

57. Biden destroyed Ryan.

Ryan tried to do a Gish Gallop of lies and crap. Biden found the perfect counter to the Gish Gallop! Laugh at the liar.

Oh Yeah!

[Zambero]

59. Not too thrilled with Trump

Unike 2016, Trump now has a "record" as POS-OTUS. There would be no shortage of debate opps for Biden or anyone else. And "old" is merely a measure of how many years have gone by since birth, and not a measure of ability, cognitive skill, or qualification. Not really sure at what precise point "old" kicks in.

[The Mouth]

60. ageist much?

[Dirty Socialist]

75. Sorry, but I don't care

Age is a factor.

[ancianita]

61. Biden, Sanders and Warren are the oldest three, yet going strong. Why not say ALL three are old?

[Dirty Socialist]

76. OK

All three of them are old. Reagan was too old, too. In fact, Reagan's second term senility is one reason I'm "ageist"

[ancianita]

78. Except that Bernie and Warren haven't got much of any legislative record compared to Biden. AND more

than any of the younguns, he won't have to spend time learning the job.

One would think, given the wreck 45's left this government, that might matter to people here.

Biden/Harris will take care of male-female, East-West, black-white, old-young, progressive-moderate politics. ALL of it.

Here's Biden's legislation before Obama, more than the other candidates. It's called working within Congress. A lot of Congress still know his work and he's got endorsements from there nearing 100.

-- S. 3668 (110th): Crime Victims with Disabilities Act of 2008
-- S.Res. 698 (110th): A resolution designating October 17, 2008, as “National Mammography Day”.
-- S.Res. 692 (110th): A resolution designating the week of November 9 through November 15, 2008, ...
-- S. 3605 (110th): Criminal History Background Checks Pilot Extension Act of 2008
-- S. 3524 (110th): Homeland Security and Law Enforcement Improvements Act of 2008
-- S. 3526 (110th): Drug Trafficking Vessel Interdiction Act of 2008
-- S.Res. 662 (110th): A resolution raising the awareness of the need for crime prevention

[Dirty Socialist]

80. Interesting

Pretty good record. And I am leaning towards Harris.

[ancianita]

81. Me, too. And Biden.

[MrsCoffee]

65. Lol.

Talk about a wildly uninformed post.

[LanternWaste]

70. Not too thrilled with Dirty Socialist.

For one thing, he doesn't support his premise with evidence. Also, when asked for specifics, he refers only back to his own ageism, a go-to weapon of "intellectually unarmed buffoons" but Dirty Socialist doesn't seem like a very good debater.

(I can certainly understand why you changed preferred candidate-avatar after the fact... pretending we can change history allows us to feel more clever than we may otherwise be)

[ancianita]

82. Okay, but he's thinking.

[Dirty Socialist]

84. Who asked for specifics?

The evidence on age is that he's 77, older than the senile Reagan during his second term.

[Peacetrain]

72. Here is my op on the very subject.. about 2 or 3 hours before yours

agism does not look good on anyone..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287139452

[Butterflylady]

79. Everyone is missing one point.

With age comes wisdom. We're not born with wisdom. It only comes with age and making mistakes that one learns from. Everyone makes mistakes that's how we learn. That's how we gain wisdom.

Perhaps that why Trump is so ignorant. He always says he's so perfect he never makes mistakes, he's never wrong. Well if he's never wrong and he never makes mistakes, I guess then he just doesn't have any wisdom. And it shows.

[ancianita]

83. AMEN. Wisdom doesn't always come with age, as with 45. But it does in Biden.

Great post!

[MustLoveBeagles]

86. Then don't support him in the primaries

There are a lot of choices.

[BootinUp]

87. He kicked ass in 2012 vp debate. Nt

[Tipperary]

89. Sarah "Pain?"

Ok.

How old are you? You must have missed some of Biden’s debates.

[Midwestern Democrat]

90. Biden was instructed to hold back in his debate with Palin - the Obama campaign was protecting

a lead and they thought the only possible danger in a Biden/Palin debate would be Biden potentially coming off as condescending in the eyes of female voters - a possibility given the dynamic of a very experienced older man vs a wholly unqualified younger woman.

[Sugarcoated]

92. Yep

Was just going to post this. Biden handled her perfectly, IMO, and Lyin Ryan as well. Different strategies for both brilliantly executed.

[Cha]

93. Exactly! And, any political

watcher would instinctively know that.