The Biden delusion

[brooklynite]

Washington Post

Joe Biden is selling something to Democratic primary voters that he can’t possibly believe. Either that, or he has somehow deluded himself into believing it. You decide which is the better alternative.

At an event in Washington on Monday night, the former vice president took aim at his 2020 Democratic opponents who have accused him of being, in his words, “stuck in the past” by talking about working with congressional Republicans.

“With Trump gone, you’re going to begin to see things change,” Biden assured. “Because these folks know better. They know this isn’t what they’re supposed to be doing.”

That quote alone will cause many Democratic activists to begin throwing things. But then there’s what he said next. To drive home his argument that Republicans would work with him as president, he pointed to none other than . . . Merrick Garland.

...snip...

Biden will continue to argue Tuesday that congressional Republicans are aware they are engaged in something that’s wrong. He’s set to echo the “know better” during a speech in Iowa bashing Trump. “He is deliberately and completely ignoring the legitimate authority of the Congress,” Biden will say, according to prepared remarks, “and he’s doing it with the full complicity of the Republicans in Congress, who know better.”

[mtnsnake]

1. I think it shows that he's already looking ahead to the general election

If he wins the Primary, then it's probably a smart political move for him to talk about how Republicans will work with him, even though deep inside he probably doesn't really believe it, nor do any of us believe that Republicans will ever work with us. I'm more looking forward to hearing him paste Trump today.

[Hortensis]

38. Yes, BUT. I think this is probably mostly a hit on Biden

because it's by Aaron Blake of the WaPo's political blog The Fix, who like a bunch of his kind is liable to swing his bat at whatever suits him, truth and accuracy be damned. There's a big appetite for disillusionment and disaffection among people for whom the Bill Maher, RT types, etc., aren't considered cool to quote. I first noticed him swinging at Obama. Zero trust for his judgement or journalistic integrity.

[HopeAgain]

2. Appeasement

That's the word that keeps running through my head. If left of center compromises with far, distant right, where do we end up?

[jalan48]

3. We've got Hillary warning us about a Fascist takeover while Biden touts working with them.

We need better messaging.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

56. Consistent messaging never hurts.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[shanny]

4. This, Hyde and his stance on marijuana...

does he actually want to be the nominee? It's odd.

[mobeau69]

9. It's getting old.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. I don't get it either... but, Joe's a smart politician with good advisors.

I'm sure he'll get his messaging straightened out, hopefully, before the debates start.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Nay]

63. That's the thing, though -- he should have figured this stuff out YEARS ago,

certainly before he opens his yap during this very critical campaign against a total monster and his feral enablers.

This is what everyone fears about a Biden campaign.

[democrank]

5. Did Biden "misremember" what happened with Mitch and the rest of the Republicans

long before Trump? Does Biden really think that if Trump is defeated in 2020, Republicans will all of a sudden turn over a new leaf?

Maybe Biden should chat with Hillary about her thoughts on fascism in America.

[LibFarmer]

6. Biden has written off the ultra left wing of the Democratic party

He is looking forward to the General Election where nearly 35% of the center-left and center right independents decide the election.

Those people are SICK of the partisanship and want the government to work.

Just saying "my hand is out for a handshake" is not appeasement but it is excellent politics. It forces the republicans to either extend the hand or be pig-headed obstructionists and lose that whole block of voters.

[jalan48]

8. "Ultra left wing"-I think I heard that on Fox News as well.

[mobeau69]

12. A rethuglican euphemism for progressives.

[Nitram]

13. There is no "ultra-left wing" in the Democratic Party. There is a liberal wing and a centrist wing.

[LibFarmer]

23. Joe Biden is 100% progressive. nt

[JudyM]

25. !

If you can back that assertion up with facts, ok.

[LibFarmer]

22. Joe Biden is a staunch progressive nt

[shanny]

47. I know I have.

[Skya Rhen]

17. I look at the ultra-left wing as those who do not care if Trump gets elected since their candidate

did not win the primary. This group definitely exists, no matter how much they might try to deny it.

[Nitram]

24. I don't think those people could be termed "Democrats."

[dogman]

21. Who is the ALF or ELF candidate he is running against?

He held his hand out for 8 years as VP, some excellence there. Seems like the GOP was content with obstruction to the point they got a SC seat that was stolen from the administration he was a part of.

[shanny]

46. lol "the ultra-left"

Ain't no commies here, honeybun, and they're the only ones who qualify.

[mobeau69]

7. Well, this is depressing.

Wonder if he said this while wearing his aviator shades.

[quickesst]

10. Just one more repeat

.... And you have a triple play.
On edit, I got you mixed up with another post the exact same argument, so I'll give you the exact same answer.

Any Democratic president....
.... Will have to try to some measure work with Republicans. They are not going to disappear with the election of a Democratic president. If by chance, you are inferring that Biden would simply fold under any pressure from these Republicans, then I believe you are sadly mistaken. It's one thing to give them the opportunity to work with a Biden White House, and it is a completely different thing to try and buck a Biden White House.

[Nitram]

11. Biden was Vice-President during 8 years of Republican obstructionism, and yet he

claims that once he's president he'll "be able to work with Republicans." He's either delusional or a liar. What our Democratic president needs is a majority in both Houses of Congress. Otherwise his legislation and his judicial appointments will be blocked in the Senate.

[Demsrule86]

49. You have to try.

[Nitram]

52. Did he try when he was Vice President? Did he have any success? Sounds like an empty promise to me.

Yes, we should always be open to offers of compromise from the GOP. But we must stop falling for their Lucy-holding-the football-act.

[loyalsister]

14. I guess there's no need to worry

about electing a Democratic Senate, then.
Yet, recent history suggests there is very good reason to not underestimate what a spiteful bunch of republicans can accomplish/thwart. Unless the subtext is, all will be well if a Democratic white patriarch is back to running the show.

[George II]

15. Let's just all pile on the front runner. From what I've seen, Biden is ANYTHING but "delusional".

[cwydro]

36. It's kind of amazing how Democratic posters are trying to take him down.

Is it fear? Wth?

[mtnsnake]

37. It's equally amazing how so many posters think Biden should be above criticism

but anyone else is fair game. All you have to do is criticize Joe and all of a sudden you're accused of hating him.

[cwydro]

40. Of course he shouldn't be above criticism.

I thought the friendship bracelet thing was incredibly stupid; I’m hoping it wasn’t his idea.

I just seem to see more criticism against him than anyone else. I’ve not got the time to study the forum and count slams against candidates, but it seems that way to me.

[mtnsnake]

41. "I just seem to see more criticism against him than anyone else"

I think Sanders has received more criticism than anyone, much of it very mean spirited.

[cwydro]

45. All right, I'll give you that one.

I don’t think of him as a Democrat, so he slipped my mind.

But that’s true.

[Turin_C3PO]

16. I don't think he believes that.

He’s saying it to appeal to fence sitters.

[mobeau69]

19. You may be right. It's hard to know what Biden believes.

[JudyM]

26. Why not be straight with voters about his positions instead?! We deserve being told the truth.

[mtnsnake]

27. Good point

especially after being lied to constantly by Trump.

[Demsrule86]

50. He has done so...but some dont want to hear. Some don't care if we win a general...

Which blows mymind.

[ecstatic]

60. That's my take as well. You can't work in DC for

all those years and be naive.

[bullwinkle428]

18. I plan to attend Biden's appearance in Davenport IA tonight. I can

share his main points and crowd reaction if anyone is interested.

[Turin_C3PO]

20. Let us know how it goes!

[AlexSFCA]

28. it's always same story with Biden

starting out promising and then sinking all the way to the nomination.

[Skya Rhen]

31. Some would hope...

[vlyons]

29. They knew better when Obama was president

With Trump, they have learned that they can shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave and get away with it. Why? Because we keep letting them. The GOP are nothing now but neo-Fascists. If they could reinstitute slavery, they would do it. They have pretty much created a vast pool of low-wage serfs as it is. The Evangelicals are not much more than Christian Taliban, selling "prosperity religion" to the gullible.

[Mike Nelson]

30. Ha ha!

… Republicans have no intention of working with Biden - or any other nominee. Zero... if he wins the primary contest, they will smear him to the moon and back. It will be worse than Hillary or Obama. The bar will go lower... I hope he knows this... plus, this kind of talk works for the general election & will get Biden nowhere in the primaries.

[people]

32. Another article on this Biden delusion

Biden Stays On His ‘Republicans Are Redeemable’ Thread — And People Are Pissed

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/biden-republicans-iowa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think this is truly surprising - even kind of shocking. Is he trying primarily to get republicans to vote for him? Does he think he will do better with republicans than Obama did? What is wrong with him???

[still_one]

33. Yup, that's what a cadidate should do, campaign that they will NOT try to work with everyone,

republicans, Democrats, and independents.



What a lame criticism.

You want to argue where someone stands on the issues, that is one thing, but using this as an argument is absurd

There is NOT one Democratic candidate who campaigns that they will not try to work with republicans if they are President.

What I find amusing is that this has been posted many times here on DU, and it is a lame and disingenuous argument as they come.

[GemDigger]

34. When a person changes the headline of the article they are linking....

it changes my opinion of the article and the person. It reminds me of something ….

[Demit]

35. His "evidence:" After McConnell blocked Garland's nom, some old R colleagues "expressed concerns"

From the story:

"Via the pool report:

Biden backed up the claim by recalling when he called 12 of his former Republican colleagues after Merrick Garland’s SCOTUS nomination was blocked by McConnell and they all expressed external concerns, he said."


He sure puts a lot of stock in what his good buddies in the Republican Party tell him. Seems to me they can just right on doing that if he becomes president: continue to back Republican policies and then privately "express their concerns" to him. Susan Collins has made that into an art.

[BlueTsunami2018]

39. It's almost like no one sees the big picture.

He’s appealing to independents and moderates who regret their Тяцмр votes. You can’t go into the general saying you’re going to be a hyperpartisan douche the way Тяцмр is/does. He certainly knows better than this having been VP during the obstruction era but you have to soothe those mushy middle people if you want to win.

We’ll only beat ourselves in the end if we do the same purity test horseshit as last time. He was right when he said we weren’t talking to the blue collar, middle America people last time. Instead we were counting coup trying to win Arizona while taking Wisconsin for granted. We can’t do that this time. He won’t and we’ll win.

[Honeycombe8]

44. To recognize reality is not being a "hyperpartisan douche." His statement wasn't to appeal to indies

He's appealing to the Republicans that he wants to "unify" with, as he has said.

Extremely naive of him, to put it kindly.

And I'm a MODERATE.

[Cha]

48. Biden's supporters do..

others not so much.

[Indygram]

55. I'm an Independent and the more he opens his mouth the less I like him

Never Trump Republicans like him but I didn't realize that Democrats are now choosing their candidates based on who disillusioned Republicans want.

[redstateblues]

61. I donated to your guy. Didn't Beto talk about working across the aisle?

I’m very disappointed that he hasn’t been able to get any traction. Maybe 2028

[TwilightZone]

69. Beto frequently talks about working across the aisle.

Should we dismiss him on that basis, as well?

[TwilightZone]

68. "He's appealing to independents and moderates"

Exactly. We can't win without them, but some apparently want us to try, completely misunderstanding the math involved.

He's also running more of a general election campaign than a primary one, primarily targeting his potential opponent, Trump. General election candidates target *all* voters, whether they think they can get them or not. He's laying the foundation in the event that he wins the nomination.

[Honeycombe8]

43. You gotta be kiddin' me. I never knew he was naive.

This is unacceptable and shows a complete lack of understanding of what's been going on with Republicans since 2016.

[Demsrule86]

51. So what should he say? That shit will get done?

This is an election and working with the other side is always part of every campaign...regardless of party.

[Nay]

64. He should probably just say NOTHING about working with the "other side" -- except,

perhaps, a phrase like this: "It's not whether I will work with them that's the question; it's whether they will work with any Democrat. They obstructed Obama in every way, so we all must have misgivings about whether they will work with us to fix what's wrong with this country."

[Honeycombe8]

65. That would show that a person is living in reality.

Honestly...to think you can work with people who supported caging children, several of whom have died, and some who can't be returned to their parents because they didn't keep records...that you can work with people like that? Who have shown they have no regard for the Constitution, patriotism, the truth, facts, science? Who have no values beyond what's in it for them, and winning?

You can work w/the few establishment Republicans that are left, but the rest are Trumpers. Trumpers don't want to work with anyone, and can't be trusted.

[Demsrule86]

67. Everyone on both sides says that...because people want that...maybe something will break. We have

had no functioning government since the GOP took the House in10. I hope Biden can do it or maybe win in a landslide and take the Senate...the polls look pretty good but it is early.

[Honeycombe8]

70. Working w/the other side is never part of a campaign against them. nt

[emmaverybo]

54. And you know very well he's not. NT

[mtnsnake]

58. Yikes, I hope it wasn't because he's naive. Maybe it was just another gaffe or something.

[Honeycombe8]

66. No. His whole campaign is based on the them of "unify, unify, unify."

I would've gone along with that a few years ago. But times have changed. The opposing party has changed.

[emmaverybo]

53. His so-called delusional optimism about bipartisan prospects along with his Trump attacks actually

help him with a wide swath of voters who are uncomfortable to the point of disgust with what they
perceive to be partisan stale-mating and bickering. You can argue all you want with them and no, they don’t get their opinions from DU or Raw Story or Bill Maher; no they don’t think Republicans are racist demons.
They are like neighbors overhearing the nightly brawl through too thin walls. You ask them what is going on and they say Jeeze, some damned woman and guy are goin at it all hours. Tired of her screaming and him shouting profanities.
Sure, turns out the wife is beating him up, but all they hear is fighting and all they want is quiet so they can sleep. That’s their goal.
Many Americans want both parties to stop the fighting and do something, for them.
Biden is an ideal messenger for Trump attacks for the very reason that he appears above
the filthy fray. He is ahead in the polls because Trump is NOT their favorite president. That’s what they can agree on with Dems, but they don’t yet believe it’s the wife beating up the husband who is making all the trouble.

[ecstatic]

59. Viewed another way, he could be setting up cognitive dissonance in many of them

and they might actually change. Sort of like when you unknowingly tell a cheater that s/he's a great spouse. The guilt might force change.

Frankly, I don't like that headline. To use dump's word, it's kind of nasty. Also, in the big scheme of things, the entire topic seems petty and unimportant. We can't micromanage the content of Biden's stump speeches. I've chosen Warren because I like that she's 100% for impeachment & said FU to faux news, etc., but FFS, let's let everyone else run their campaigns the way they see fit. May the best man/woman win.

[NBachers]

62. Did you achieve your objective with this one?

[Honeycombe8]

71. "I Don't Want Her, You Can Have Her. She's Too Fat for Me."

He was born during WWII. When he was a boy, this was a top song (by Arthur Godfrey):

The movie Reefer Madness that had been made in 1936 and recut and distributed in 1939 thru 1950s, was still shown during Biden's childhood. (Remember that Biden is against legalizing pot and has said he thinks it's a gateway drug.)

He was born in a different era. Once a person reaches a certain age, he can't change much. He's not a bad person. He doesn't have nefarious intentions or bad motives. Some of what people in a much older age group say just sounds out of place and old school in the modern world.