Ta-Nehisi Coates: "Joe Biden Shouldn't Be President"

[Autumn]

Transcript

Ta-Nehisi Coates, your thoughts?

TA-NEHISI COATES: I mean, it’s just more of the same. It’s just more of the same. I mean, you know, Joe Biden says he’s been—

AMY GOODMAN: Should Biden apologize?

TA-NEHISI COATES: I don’t—I mean, Joe Biden shouldn’t be president. You know? You know, obviously, I don’t think I’m breaking any news here. You know, if he ends up being the nominee, better him than Trump, but I think that’s a really, really low standard.

I think when you have somebody who is celebrating their relationship, the ability of a person who saw no problem depriving an entire population of African Americans in their state of the right to vote, the right to participate as American citizens, the fact that that person was polite to them? I mean, it’s nice that Eastland never called, or Talmadge, whoever it was—never called Joe Biden “boy.” It’s nice that Joe Biden had that privilege. But the fact of the matter is, Joe Biden owes his very presence in the race, right now, to the first black president, to Barack Obama. And if it were up to Eastland, and if it were up to Talmadge, Barack Obama would not only not be in the White House, he actually would not exist.

And so, I don’t know what is going on in your brain where you decide to celebrate the fact these people were polite. They could afford to be polite, because the major opposition in their state, that being African Americans, was effectively, at that time, in their time, through most of their career, wiped out of the political process and erased as an electorate.

You know, Joe Biden says that he’s been involved with civil rights his entire career. It’s worth remembering Joe Biden opposed busing and bragged about it, you know, in the 1970s. Joe Biden is on the record as being to the right of actually the New Democrats in the 1990s on the issue of mass incarceration, wanted more people sentenced to the death penalty, wanted more jails. And so, you know, I’m not surprised. I mean, this is who Joe Biden is. You know there’s that saying: When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. This is who Joe Biden is.

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/6/20/ta_nehisis_coates_joe_biden_segregation?fbclid=IwAR2rWCZ8AmeNuC2uGxePU_RrrFMoEcLN5uiQ_FpSUUC4WpYuaSthcoK6Eb4

[George II]

1. Who is Ta-Nehisi Coates and what makes him an authority on who should be president?

[BeyondGeography]

4. Don't worry

He’s just someone whose views will make it harder for Biden to win over younger black voters. No biggie.

[LanternWaste]

14. Imaginative allegation.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. You read "Between the World and Me"?

It was really good.

[DesertRat]

32. I read it. It was exceptional. nt

[Butterflylady]

137. And you know this for sure!

I doubt that.

[emmaverybo]

153. Biden's supporters are older black voters. Honestly, candidates simply can not gain the support of

all demographics.

[Chitown Kev]

215. Actually, Biden's support pretty much correlates with age

across the board regardless of race...which is a problem because, as a rule, Democrats have to do very well with youth turnout in order to win

[emmaverybo]

228. Biden still leads in perception of electability. So many Americans must not be clued in to the

problem you foresee. And youth in past elections were not voting against Trump.

Other candidates will find it challenging to win states we must win to defeat Trump. Biden has the best chance in those states.

[SouthernProgressive]

189. Let me reword that.

He’s just someone whose views will make it easier for Trump to win is Biden is our nominee.

Truly no meaningful difference in the statements.

[BeyondGeography]

193. That too

Happy 4th to you, SP.

[StarfishSaver]

199. You think younger black voters are too gullible to avoid being swayed by Coates but white voters

won't be tricked by him?

[Kahuna7]

5. From I've heard, he was most helpful in the anti-Hillary campaign in 2016. nt

[Mars and Minerva]

35. Yep...another "rip the Democratic party apart" folks.

Without them we would have had a Democrat in the White House and maybe a Dem majority in the Senate. Imagine how much better the country would be now, if our candidates and their supporters would just stick to their own business and sell their policies and not spread their poison.

[lapfog_1]

83. NO... you don''t understand

Hillary and Trump were just the same. No difference. Biden and Trump are just the same.

Just like Bush and Gore...

They want a socialist revolution and wealth redistribution and nothing else will ever make them happy.

[backscatter712]

87. Welcome to primary season.

After the primaries are over, we all support the nominee, but until then, we get to compete over who's worthy to be our standard bearer.

[True Dough]

126. WORD!!!!

I agree with you 100%. There is a contest underway here. Plenty of screening and scrutinizing to be done. No one gets to walk through this process without the infamous "vetting" that ought to come with being a candidate.

[Mars and Minerva]

142. That is a complete fantasy.

I've been on and off of DU since it's first week. Clinton/ Sanders turned DU into a swamp through the primary and the general . This place and Democratic voters were shattered by the bullying and vitriol until the day Trump was elected.

[Autumn]

12. I'm shocked you don't know who he is.

Wait. No, I'm not. I guess you only know who he is when someone uses him against candidates you don't like.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251450837

[George II]

15. As I asked, what make him an authority on who should (actually should not) be President?

Thanks for the insult, by the way.

[Autumn]

39. He's a Black American author and journalist with an opinion? Your opinion is that Biden should

be president. What makes you an authority on who should or should not be president? No one needs to be an authority to know who they think should be president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta-Nehisi_Coates

[George II]

50. Last I saw no one posted an OP about me saying anyone should NOT be president....

You still haven't told us what makes him an authority on who should not be president, but that's okay.

[Autumn]

58. Well you're not an author and journalist so I imagine what you think is only interesting to

your friends and family. I don't need to tell you what makes him an authority on who should not be president because not a person alive has to be given the authority to decide who should not be president. Voters decide that at the ballot box. And during the primary.

[George II]

77. But you find him enough of an "authority" to post a Biden-bashing OP based on his opinion. Okay.

[Autumn]

120. So the problem here is that I posted his interview? Yet you recommend and comment in a positive

manner when other people post about him? Oh, George, that's so very transparent of you.

[George II]

121. And the insults keep flowing, thanks!

[Autumn]

131. I haven't insulted you yet.

[TwilightZone]

133. Not George, but I'd have to disagree.

"I imagine what you think is only interesting to your friends and family" is pretty condescending and presumptuous.

[Autumn]

135. Did you read his post I responded to? There's reason Ta-Nehisi Coates gets posted here often.

He's an author and a journalist and his opinion gets covered by the media. George doesn't get covered by the media. As far as I know.

George II (39,290 posts)

50. Last I saw no one posted an OP about me saying anyone should NOT be president....

You still haven't told us what makes him an authority on who should not be president, but that's okay.

If you are his friend maybe you can post an OP for him.

[emmaverybo]

151. I second your emotion. Personal insult it was.

[Perseus]

127. Goerge II, without me being impertinent I will try to explain someone's answer to you

First, one should not take it personally if someone else does not agree with your choice of candidate. I happen to agree with Mr. Coates, I also do not believe Biden is a good candidate, but that is not important.

What is important is that, as liberals that we are, we do not insult each other (I am not saying you have insulted anyone by the way, because you have not), or try to demean someone because they don't share our views on the candidate.

Mr. Coates is a very well prepared man, he is very intelligent and as all of us, he has his opinion on a candidate, and for most African-Americans, they don't seem to be too much with Biden, which makes him a problem for the elections, if Democrats don't have the black vote, we don't win.

Anyway, my point is that instead of trying to second guess Mr. Coates, take the time to research his allegations, try to dig as deep as you can on the political history of Biden, what he has said, what he has done, his latest changes of opinion due to his original positions were loudly rejected by Democratic voters, etc. You, and all of us, do want to make sure we elect the best candidate out of all 21, one who will not try to play politics and pretend he can convince the republicans to work with him/her, but one that puts republicans in their place, that his interests are those of the people. We must elect the best, and we must learn from each other and not take criticism of your candidate personally.

[TwilightZone]

129. George isn't the one being insulting.

"what you think is only interesting to your friends and family" is pretty condescending. I can't really blame him for calling out the poster in that instance.

Similarly, your response that seems to boil down to "we reject Biden, so you should, too" isn't particularly helpful.

"for most African-Americans, they don't seem to be too much with Biden, which makes him a problem for the elections, if Democrats don't have the black vote, we don't win. "

The polls show otherwise. Biden is leading with the AA community.

"Biden’s lead rests almost entirely on his strength among African American voters, who constitute a large portion of the Democratic vote in almost every primary in the country. In the 18 states that cast votes on or before Super Tuesday, CBS polling data show that Biden enjoys the support of fully 50 percent of likely African American participants. "

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/06/20/can-biden-hold-onto-his-lead/

Other sources and polls:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-battleground-tracker-poll-biden-leads-in-vote-choice-warren-harris-sanders-close-behind/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/11/biden-black-economic-alliance-poll-2020-1359082


Note: my observations have nothing to do with Mr. Coates or his assertions.

[George II]

134. .

[Autumn]

136. That's not an insult, it's a fact. George is not a public figure which is why there are no OPs

posted about who he thinks should or should not run for President.

[emmaverybo]

158. Because Biden leads with black voters, critics are bound to examine his relationship now

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2019, 02:54 AM - Edit history (1)

and earlier in his career to racial issues.

At least in South Carolina, it does not seem that his support among Black voters has changed. He
still maintains his favorability with an older demographic while younger voters tend to be more
skeptical about his ability to represent their concerns or prefer other candidates.

What I find “disingenuous,” to use Symone Sanders’ excellent word choice, is the virulence with which white liberals are attacking him, speaking not out of their own experience, but their near-patronizing concern about black people’s concerns. Black people are not some monolithic voting group white progressives should assume a voice for in promoting or undermining candidates.


Leading the charge with a new weapon, the usual anti-Biden wing is in over-drive, first hashing and rehashing the fundraiser, milking the anecdote for all it’s worth, then digging up “evidence” from fifty years ago. Now, we get an opinion from Ta-Nehisi Coates that we should take as authoritative because he is a recognized genius and thus should know who should not become our next president.

I understand Coates’ prominence as a writer and activist. I respect his spear-heading an investigation into reparations. I respect his standing up in the fight for a more just and equal America.

However, some of the exchange here exemplifies an insidious and insulting approach to Biden bashing. An opinion though it has a following is still only an opinion.

Worse, in the post you respond to, we find a blatantly false premise about “most African-Americans,” used to make the argument that Biden, if our nominee, would lose us the election.

Just for the sake of honesty, I thank you for correcting this bit of bandwagon propaganda with fact.

[sheshe2]

177. Dayum fine post, emmavertybo.

Preach.

[emmaverybo]

178. Coming from you sheshe2, whose comments I so frequently admire, good to hear.

[sheshe2]

180. You said it far better than I ever could.

Love your posts. Keep up the good work. We have a long road to hoe.

[womanofthehills]

237. After the debate, Kamala's support from black voters went up - Biden's down

Former Vice President Joe Biden's support among black voters dropped after his performance during last week's presidential debate when he was criticized for his record on race, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos poll.

The survey found that Biden's support went down from 40 percent among black voters in June to 20 percent among black voters in the days following the debate.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451514-poll-bidens-support-from-black-voters-drops-after-debate

[emmaverybo]

239. Right now his support is still stronger than hers. But then his civil rights record is as well. NT

[BannonsLiver]

186. The old adage about opinions comes to mind.

[Autumn]

187. It come to my mind very often there are so many opinions here.

[Demit]

41. Keen observation.

[Celerity]

93. Ta-Nehisi Coates's one of, if not the most, important voices in the US for the current reparations

movement.

His 2014 article in The Atlantic jump-started the present-day debate. He is extremely influential in our African-American community.


The Case for Reparations

Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/



He just testified before Congress (in the House) 2 days ago, on Juneteenth.

https://boingboing.net/2019/06/20/institutionalized-curious-inst.html

Awards

2012: Hillman Prize for Opinion and Analysis Journalism
2013: National Magazine Award for Essays and Criticism for "Fear of a Black President"
2014: George Polk Award for Commentary for "The Case for Reparations"
2015: Harriet Beecher Stowe Center Prize for Writing to Advance Social Justice for "The Case for Reparations"
2015: American Library in Paris Visiting Fellowship
2015: National Book Award for Nonfiction for Between the World and Me
2015: Fellow of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation
2015: Kirkus prize for nonfiction for Between the World and Me
2018: Dayton Literary Peace Prize in Nonfiction for We Were Eight Years in Power
2018: Eisner Award for Best Limited Series, for Black Panther: World of Wakanda (with Roxane Gay and Alitha E. Martinez)

[redstateblues]

107. Now there's a big loser for the General election. Keep it up. Four more for Trump

Let's talk about this once we have the power to actually do something.

[Celerity]

112. I made no statement of support or non-support for reparations.

It is, I agree, a guaranteed electoral loser in today's environment.

[Chitown Kev]

232. Here's what I hate about political blogs like DU (and DK where I write regularly)...sometimes

Everything seems to be reduced to who is voting for whom and it's the Unified Field Theory for everything concerning black folks and understand our history and culture during election season...it seems to me

[LuvNewcastle]

235. Yep.

Republicans already think that welfare and food stamps are a giveaway to black people, regardless of the fact that more white people are on welfare and food stamps. But if you start handing out checks specifically to people who have slave ancestry, they'll really hit the roof. And it wouldn't just be the GOPers who hit the roof, you could say goodbye to most independents as well.

[oasis]

238. Talk of reparations has to wait until Dems are in the WH.

If this becomes a wedge issue and we lose votes, nobody gets a damned thing.
Bye, bye climate change legislation, healthcare, gun legislation, education ...the works.

People need to wake up and smell the coffee.

[tulipsandroses]

156. The same that makes you an authority of you or any other American

I think Trump should not be president. As well as almost everyone else here on DU
What makes all of here an authority?

[George II]

167. I haven't proclaimed that any of our candidates "should not be president".

[Hassin Bin Sober]

25. .

[SMC22307]

128. I knew someone would come through as soon as I read the OP.

Thanks.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. LOL

I couldn't have come up with a more representative example of what's wrong with the Biden campaign if I tried. Well done.

[Chicago1980]

97. See...

Now it's time to watch 'The Golden Child'.

[aidbo]

165. The Golden Child is a great Eddie Murphy movie.

But I always assumed that GIF was from Last Action Hero with Arnold. Charles Dance is in both movies so I’m not sure.

[aikoaiko]

18. WTH? You don't know TNC?

woah

[zentrum]

19. Oh, he's only

...one of the most important Black voices in the country.

But perhaps I missed the sarcasm in your comment.

[George II]

24. Is that "self-appointed"? What makes him one of THE most important?

[zentrum]

40. This is getting beyond the pale.

He's huge for Black people. And he's getting huge for informed White people who are interested in seeing and understanding the effects of their own privilege.

Can't talk about this any more. It's too insulting to the whole effort to understand the truth of American history.

But I'll be "civil"--Have a nice day.

[zentrum]

53. Exactly.Really

.....a problem to see this level of ignorance and unawareness in these precincts.

Thank you for saying it.

Hope you don't get alerted.

[Act_of_Reparation]

57. It probably will.

But if the worst I suffer in the battle against implicit bias is a hide on an internet forum, then I'm doing OK.

[LAS14]

115. What's worse than ignorance is not asking questions. Why dump on someone...

.... just because they didn't know something and are asking about it?

And thankfully zentrum did get successfully alerted.

[True Blue American]

65. I guess that includes me then!

Son of a black panther, second generation make money off the people.

He testified in the hearing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-holds-hearing-on-reparations-for-slavery/2019/06/19/b62d708a-92a8-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html?utm_term=.2f7b886e86a1

[Act_of_Reparation]

68. But you knew who he was before today, right?

When I said he's "unpopular" with older white folks, I meant to say there are no doubt a lot of older white folks who aren't aware of the man or his body of work.

I don't take issue with anyone disagreeing with the man for his positions, or even criticizing his statements. But this, "WTF IS TA-NEHISI COATES" shit is absurd.

[True Blue American]

69. No, I never heard of him

And,until I googled did not realize he was the person testifying yesterday for a $12 million dollar study that will go nowhere.

We have too many problems in this country to fund. Education for those hurting in Schools that do not have funding to provide the basics.

Next question?

[Act_of_Reparation]

74. Just one.

Do you know who David Frum is?

[True Blue American]

84. Vaguely

Know the name. My turn. What does Frum have to do with this?

[Act_of_Reparation]

88. Both Coates and Frum wrote for The Atlantic.

Smartass that I am, I was going to amend my previous generalization to read, "Unpopular with over-the-hill white folks and people who don't read The Atlantic".

[Chemisse]

95. I didn't know who he was until today.

I haven't been following DU, and the news in general, in the past few months. Just skimming the headlines and trying to keep my stress level down.

Not everybody is following everything at every point in time. The important thing is that people are willing to ask questions and be educated. It would be nice if you would encourage that.

[Autumn]

138. It's more than absurd. You can look at past OPs about Ta-Nehisi Coates and people who are

"who is this guy" are in those threads or have recommended those OPs.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

141. Bazinga!

[sheshe2]

179. Interesting pic you posted. nt

[emmaverybo]

182. Tell me what you know about James Baldwin, Autumn, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry, August

Wilson. Are we playing jeopardy?
No one can follow every field, every political development and movement, know every player, read every influential voice in every top magazine in America. And this is more, not less true in today’s world.
To shame people for their not being au courant enough is reprehensible as political or social justice
argument.
Quietly, and without hostility, Autumn, or pulling intellectual rank, go about educating folks.
We are here for that, not reckless and unsolicited insult.

[Autumn]

183. If I post about James Baldwin, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry, or anyone else. If I

read and rec OPs about them and comment in those threads on whatever they say several times over a couple of years I'm not going to ask who they are and what they've done I commented on that being done in this thread. links were posted If you catch me doing that when a well-known person says something I don't like and I say I don't know who they are? Then you can lecture me emmaverybo. Until then don't bother.

[emmaverybo]

184. What you can't defend is your conduct, Autumn. You insult, demean, belittle. It is unwarranted.

[Autumn]

185. I have nothing to defend emmaverybo, I did none of that. Have a nice day nt

[qazplm135]

82. you should maybe sit out the next few rounds Champ

Agree with him or not, and I as an AA disagree with him on things, he absolutely is a leader in the AA community whose voice carries weight.

That you don't know that notwithstanding.

[tulipsandroses]

157. I really hope your ignorance on this matter is not indicative of DU's knowledge of issues

that are important to black people.

[Kahuna7]

61. I'm black. I don't agree with that assessment.

[treestar]

147. I don't agree because he doesn't cover any other issues

Biden should be President because of his experience and that he can get things back to normal because of that, domestically and internationally. That is way more important than any "gaffe." A more important black voice is President Obama, who is informed on all issues and picked Joe Biden as his running mate, which was a very smart move. There was this idea Obama wasn't experienced. So he picked someone who was as a running mate.

[True Blue American]

21. I think the name was connected with that useless

Reparations Hearing that Shiela Jackson Lee held.

Have no idea who that is.

[Kahuna7]

62. Exactly. He screwed us in 2016 and will do it again. nt

[True Blue American]

64. I did too ,but

That is the guy who testified yesterday. His Father was a black panther.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-holds-hearing-on-reparations-for-slavery/2019/06/19/b62d708a-92a8-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html?utm_term=.2f7b886e86a1

[Chitown Kev]

208. How...

Coates was critical of both Clinton and Sanders, he voted for Sanders in the primary but didn't stomp for him or formally endorse him.

[Perseus]

94. you obvoiusly did not watch his speech at the hearing for slave restoration

Ta-Nehisi Coates is an author, very eloquent, very intelligent, you may not agree with his views due to the fact you have chosen Biden as your candidate, but I think it is worth finding out who exactly is that person you support, that is what many people who supported the buffoon are now finding out, late, but most of us don't want to be in that place.

We must vet, with all sincerity and unbiased resolution, all the candidates. People Biden's age do not change, they just say what is convenient.

Ta-Nehisi Paul Coates is an American author and journalist. Coates gained a wide readership during his time as national correspondent at The Atlantic, where he wrote about cultural, social and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.

[zentrum]

188. Well, there is this.

2015: National Book Award for Nonfiction for Between the World and Me
2015: Fellow of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation
2015: Kirkus prize for nonfiction for Between the World and Me

[onetexan]

196. Coates should keep his opinion to himself

[smooth64]

198. If you don't know who he is

You haven't followed African American's who supported Bernie in 2016

[samir.g]

204. He is probably the most influential Black intellectual in America today

He also wrote an entire run of Black Panther.

[hlthe2b]

213. Reminded of another "renowned" academician, Cornell West (who never had a positive thing to say...

about our first black President, Barack Obama.

[Chitown Kev]

216. West sharply criticized Coates

for Coates' support of Obama and criticized Nobel Prize winning author Toni Morrison for her support of Coates...

gosh, people on some of these threads are astonishingly ignorant about goings-on in black culture yet they feel free to write about it...

Coates did not graduate from college, FWIW

[hlthe2b]

221. you just proved my point. West never had a positive thing to say about Obama.

Again, you seem to post before you even read and comprehend. TWICE you have done so!

You bring up all kinds of issues about West's relationship with TNC, which I never even discussed.

Again, kindly slow down and READ!

[Chitown Kev]

217. you are so wrong

West, in fact, criticized Coates for his relationship with Obama...and criticized Toni Morrison for her glowing review of Coates

[hlthe2b]

220. No, YOU ARE WRONG and apparently had difficulty reading that I was writing about West's disdain

for Obama. Please slow down and read what is actually written.

I said West never had a positive thing to say about Obama. That is the point and it is correct. I never even brought up West's relationship with TNC.

The only thing the two have in common IMO is they are both well known African American academicians.

[Chitown Kev]

222. But you are grouping Coates with West

Because they are both of the black intellectual class...which they are (as is Michael Eric Dyson, who had an even more positive view of Obama than Coates)...

Dr. West does not speak universally for the black intellectual class, which your comment strongly implies

[hlthe2b]

223. I said one reminded me of the other. Both well known and opinionated AA academicians.

West never had a kind thing to say about Obama and while I didn't bring up TNC's comments specifically since you have, it appears he has nothing good to say about Biden.

Again, read before attacking others.

[Chitown Kev]

225. Coates isn't an academic, though

a public intellectual, yes...but not an academic

To me, Coates isn't anything like Dr. West but then again I am familiar with the works of both

[hlthe2b]

226. TNC is #4 on this list of 25 Black Scholars / Cornell West is #24

https://thebestschools.org/features/black-scholars-you-should-know/

This organization ranks academicians and scholar is typically a synonym, along with academic. One does not need to hold a professorship to be considered as such.

[Chitown Kev]

229. Again...Coates is not an academic

he didn't even get his BA from Howard University (not saying that as a putdown, he's written about that)

An "academic" implies that he has a BA, MA, and probably a PhD...he is a scholar, yes.

He's most often compared to James Baldwin (who did not have academic credentials...when Baldwin began to teach, it was very late in his writing career long after he was famous)...I disagree with that comparison as well (for complicated reasons) but Baldwin's and Coates' careers do share some similarities in trajectory.

[hlthe2b]

230. asked and answered fully: Scholar is a synonym for academic, as is "intellectual" which you used

and no, they are not all professors

Seems like you are arguing against your own points.
Why if you admire TNC would you recoil when he is described as an intellectual, an academician, or a scholar?

[Chitown Kev]

233. An academic is something very specific

He does not teach in a college or a university.

One can be a "public intellectual" or an "independent scholar" (which TNC is, to be sure) only using the work that one writes

Being an "academic" requires very specific credentials...it's not a putdown (I don't have the credentials of an academic either, I only have a BA)

and you are arguing for the sake of aeguing at this pt., so have a good night

[hlthe2b]

234. again you are foolishly arguing against your own points.

I don't know why. Someone clearly upset you, but it wasn't me, though your failure to read/interpret led you to believe so.

[StarfishSaver]

236. Sigh ...

What are you gonna do.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

2. Ruh ro!

[BeckyDem]

3. Fair. I know it sounds harsh but it is what it is.

[NYMinute]

6. Ta Nehisi Coates was born in 1975

and has less of an idea of what it was like for African Americans before the CRA.

People who were around back then realize what Biden was saying. Ta Nehisi fell for the same Sirota spin that Cory Booker fell for.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. Teh evil Sirota mastermind!

[True Blue American]

23. 100+

On the Siroto post. He is so evil.

[Demit]

63. A black man born in Baltimore has "less of an idea" what it was like for AAs??

I guess he didn't have black parents or grandparents. I guess he was spontaneously generated.I guess he never heard the stories or got "The Talk."

It is astounding to read, on a liberal site, such a casual dismissal of the black experience.

[Demit]

78. The black experience did not end with slavery. When did Jim Crow end?

When did lynching end? When did the KKK end?

I can't believe I'm hearing this kind of ignorance on Democratic Underground.

[Caliman73]

110. Believe it.

American history has been designed to acknowledge that slaver happened, but never to deal with it in any meaningful way nor to understand that problems that resulted long after the practice was banned. We say that the Civil War was fought to "end slavery". It was and it wasn't. There were people who certainly saw the moral evil that it was, but a big thrust for the war on the Union side was to preserve the Union and punish secessionists. The South certainly fought to preserve slavery as an economic and social good. People think that the South was evil and the North was good, but there was a TON of racism in the North too.

Race and the treatment of Black people is something that many Americans just want to move past rather than deal with the problems that still exist to this very day.

[shanny]

79. this is wrong on so many levels

[qazplm135]

86. WTF did you just type?

Are you kidding me right now?

[Chitown Kev]

210. What an astoundingly ignorant comment.

[loyalsister]

98. And what so many white USers don't get

Is that the Civil Rights Act has not lived up to it's promise. People of color whose peers were brutalized during protests are still burying young people killed by police.

Among the 140 million people who are living in poverty, non white people are over represented. Families which were supposed to have been able to move into better circumstances were damaged when people were prosecuted more harshly than ever for minor drug offenses. After income providers were removed from families, those who were left struggled with the bureaucracy of social services until that rug was pulled out from under them.
The civil rights act may prevent businesses from explicitly discriminating but that does not stop store owners and their employees from imposing a voyeuristic security presense based on an assumption that people of color are likely to steal.
Black people have less familial wealth, worse health outcomes, and black women die giving birth more frequently in a country that has an unusually high maternal birth rate.
Like most Black men, TaNeshie Coates lives in fear of police. He has watched lives of people he cares about be damaged or destroyed. And his interactions with stores, realtors, and many, if not most, white people.
Civil Rights Act US has not delivered on its promises. The voting rights act was trashed.
I started kindergarten in 1975. There was a neighborhood that white people called n- town. The people of color who I grew up with experienced the school and town very differently from me.
To dismiss Coates' experiences with racism is to deny the reality of racism and attempt to erase millions of people from US life.

[NYMinute]

101. No one denied the reality of racism

I simply said TNC's black experience differs a lot from the pre CRA times and his interpretation of Biden said is thus vastly different.

[loyalsister]

106. He sees Biden through his experience

and it is valid.
As someone who is living the racist nightmare that was compounded during the 90s I think he has a lot of credibility.

[Loki Liesmith]

7. He should go back to writing comics

Actually no because they were terrible.

[George II]

16. Oh, so now we have a comic author telling us who should NOT be President.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Do you not know how to use Google?

Or are you just unaware of its existence?

[George II]

22. I see who he is, a 45-year old with an attitude, and he's telling every who should NOT be president?

[Act_of_Reparation]

26. But if he were an anonymous septuagenarian with an attitude telling everyone who SHOULD be president

...that would be OK?

[George II]

36. Who said that? What "anonymous septuagenarian" has been telling us who should be president? But...

it's far more positive and constructive to say why any one of the candidates SHOULD be president than it is finding reasons why any of them should not.

Is this a matter of "the lesser of 24 evils"?

[Act_of_Reparation]

42. I find your posthoc rationalization amusing.

Please continue.

[George II]

44. Whatever.

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. I mean, you understand how mutually exclusive propositions work, right?

You do understand that Candidate X winning necessarily entails Candidates A-Y losing, right? And that expressing desire for their victory is propositionally no different from expressing desire that everyone else lose?

Honestly, I think you probably do.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

59. "than it is finding reasons why any of them should not."

[Gothmog]

123. Civil rights icon John Lewis backs Biden, says segregationist comments were not offensive

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

132. See. John Lewis has an opinion too.

[Chitown Kev]

231. I can respect and admire John Lewis and regard him as a hero

and disagree with him, as well...

...remember, the black establishment of Lewis day edited his MOW speech because it was too radical...Lewis understands far more than you give him credit for.

[samnsara]

38. so this person is a cartoonist? .....,.well now im REALLY gonna pay attn! ;/

[Demit]

54. He's a writer. An award-winning author. A MacArthur genius award recipient.

He is brilliant.

You really should read his bio. It will correct your ignorance of who he is and what he's done.

[emmaverybo]

155. "You'll find out who he is and what he's done" makes for better writing and avoids a juvenile

insult.
.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

29. You seriously don't like his Black Panther?

I thought it was really solid.

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. Same.

He's doing Captain America right now, I believe. Haven't had a chance to check it out, but I'd be interested to see how TNC approaches Steve Rogers.

I also thought his work as a journalist for the Atlantic and NYT bestselling non-fiction were pretty good, too. But you know, he's just a "comic book author".

[tishaLA]

48. He had some fiction last week (?) in the New Yorker

and it was great. He also has a novel coming out in the fall

[Voltaire2]

144. That was a beautiful story.

But he is just a comic book writer and he isn’t old enough to have a real black experience, or so I’ve read in this thread.

What the ever loving fuck.

[BlueWI]

146. Not our most enlightened days for racial dialogue on DU.

Talking over black people is a hard habit for all of America to break, including at DU.

[Chitown Kev]

224. I mean...really

[Scurrilous]

8. Next!

[stonecutter357]

9. African American South Carolinians weigh in on Biden's comments

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287159368

[Miles Archer]

10. Well, that's the opinion of Ta-Nehisi Coates, and I don't plan to consult him for voting advice.

[ucrdem]

13. She asks for his thoughts

But it doesn't sound like he'd given the matter any until she brought it up.

Is this the best Amy can come up with?

[SouthernProgressive]

27. He tried to sway the 2016 primary by announcing he would be voting for Sanders.

How did that work out? He fully put it in the minds of people that Clinton shouldn't be President.

He even went as far as to blame Hillary for bills passed by her husband. It was a true display of sexism.

He said he would not help or support a Democrat in 2016.

Sanders Surrogate and Fellow at the Sanders Institute, Cornel West.

Ta-Nehisi Coates is the neoliberal face of the black freedom struggle

Ta-Nehisi Coates’ We Were Eight Years in Power, a book about Barack Obama’s presidency and the tenacity of white supremacy, has captured the attention of many of us. One crucial question is why now in this moment has his apolitical pessimism gained such wide acceptance?

Coates and I come from a great tradition of the black freedom struggle. He represents the neoliberal wing that sounds militant about white supremacy but renders black fightback invisible. This wing reaps the benefits of the neoliberal establishment that rewards silences on issues such as Wall Street greed or Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and people.

The disagreement between Coates and me is clear: any analysis or vision of our world that omits the centrality of Wall Street power, US military policies, and the complex dynamics of class, gender, and sexuality in black America is too narrow and dangerously misleading. So it is with Ta-Nehisi Coates’ worldview.

Coates rightly highlights the vicious legacy of white supremacy – past and present. He sees it everywhere and ever reminds us of its plundering effects. Unfortunately, he hardly keeps track of our fightback, and never connects this ugly legacy to the predatory capitalist practices, imperial policies (of war, occupation, detention, assassination) or the black elite’s refusal to confront poverty, patriarchy or transphobia.

The Guardian

[oasis]

60. Trump can thank Susan Sarandon and Coates for their help in 2016.

[LiberalLovinLug]

113. Because that one more vote in California would have made all the difference

And Ta-Nehisi Coates endorsing Sanders in the primary, but voting reluctantly for Clinton drove the nail home.


At this rate Sarandon will go down as the most powerful woman in American history

[oasis]

143. "ONE VOTE IN CALIFORNIA"? As if influence over MSM airwaves

and social media have no effect on voting.

Puffed up, self righteous, left leaning attention hounds such as Coates,Sarandon, and Eddie Glaude, cost Hillary votes.

That is an undeniable fact.

[LiberalLovinLug]

150. One vote

We can all be "puffed up and self righteous" at times. Sarandon is not evil. I'll bet you share at least 90% of what she wants done in America. Its just that she's impatient, and angry at all the BS that keeps the county a step behind other democracies, and thinks its already unsalvageable and needs to be blown up, politically speaking.

The way I look at it, there is plenty of pressure from the extreme right. Powerful pressure. There is bound to be at least some pressure from the extreme left as well. Its only natural. And IMO, I think this is a healthy and is a normal quality of democracy. If I must endure one extreme I want both to balance it out at least.

That element will always be there. In the end though, she herself, only had one vote.

[lark]

105. Ya know, I just knew this in my gut after reading what he wrote.

Yeah, I just love consistency. Bernie being a gun supporter and not really caring about sexual harassment is ok, even though he is old but it is not ok for Joe to be president because he's old and back before he was even born was civil with some bad folks. Coates helped drumpf win so he is just as irrelevant in that way as is Stein and Sarandon.

Fixed post to reflect my thoughts better

[Honeycombe8]

30. I wonder who that is. nt

[samnsara]

31. who...AND WHY... the fuck is his quote important enuff to be posted here?

...how many biden threads can we make it to today...any bets? Maybe we can come up with an obscure quote from his kindergarten teacher.... 'You know Joe could NEVER color inside the lines and he was always talking in class...oh my..he should never be prez!" GASP!

[Autumn]

52. Oh has this been posted? He is popular and gets posted here often, has been for years.

As to who and why. Who? He's a Black American author and journalist. Why? Because this is the Primaries form where people post stuff about the candidates running for President? As to you getting a quote from Biden's kindergarten teacher? Good luck with that, he was in kindergarten about 71 years ago.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/index.php
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251450837
https://democraticunderground.com/10029831986
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016234144
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017544919
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017544751
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10025016103

[shanny]

80. Thank you.

[SMC22307]

130. Between this OP and Third Way admitting they were wrong...

DU's been pretty interesting lately.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12203604

[George II]

124. A few days ago I posted in one of these "Biden is bad" threads a picture of Biden wearing (gasp!)...

....a tan suit! Forget all these trivial matters, that alone should be disqualifying.

[treestar]

148. It is very telling how many Biden threads there are

that are negative.

If instead of those threads, they posted something positive about another candidate and why their candidate should win, it might be persuasive.

[Voltaire2]

160. There are plenty of negative threads

about other candidates. Lots of Biden supporters posting in those threads.

[treestar]

171. I haven't seen them

I can't even tell you the negatives for any other candidate.

[Voltaire2]

172. Lulzd.

[treestar]

173. LInk to some

the front page here is Biden, Biden, Biden, ten threads of whatever the critique of the day is.

[obamanut2012]

240. I've also noticed that

[aikoaiko]

34. TNC knows what is what.

[samnsara]

43. not sure what tnc is either

[tonedevil]

66. You have already shown you don't have a clue...

what's being discussed here why do you feel the need to repeatedly display your ignorance?

[aikoaiko]

46. I cannot believe DUers are trashing TNC

I haven't agreed with everything he has said or written, but I recognize him as one of the most important voice in America today -- especially when it comes to issues involving racism and cultural change.


https://www.theatlantic.com/author/ta-nehisi-coates/

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/between-the-world-and-me-ta-nehisi-coates/1121816158#/

[redstateblues]

109. His is anti Hillary stance helped elect Trump

[aikoaiko]

125. I don't recall him being anti-HRC. He had criticisms for both Bernie and HRC

[MicaelS]

227. Why are you surprised?

If he is going to criticize Democrats he is going to get pushback from other Democrats.

His race and writings does not grant him a pass.

[tishaLA]

47. Mr Coates got roasted by lots of the Sanders folks here in 16

Because he made a mildly critical comment about the junior senator from VT's racial blind spots. Now VP Biden's supporters will be upset. And Mr Coates will be fine with that.

[KayF]

51. it seems different

I found a thread about the Bernie dustup

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511032008

Strong discussion, but not a lot of "who the fuck is this asshole" type responses, as there are now when it's about Biden.

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. Because we're on a trajectory.

And we've been on it for a while now.

Primaries are good. Primaries are necessary. But Primaries get ugly when people get emotionally attached to their preferred candidates. It's like Iron Maiden fans and Sex Pistols fans beating the piss out of each other in streets because some asshole in a denim vest told some other asshole with a mohawk Sid Vicious couldn't actually play bass.

[nolabear]

56. He's actually smart and beautifully expressive. But I disagree with him.

He’s got cred and has written remarkably onna segment of the Black experience. I like him a lot. But like many he’s understandably tired of waiting for big steps and the reality of how measured those steps need to be grates on him. I disagree about Biden but I respect him.

[tishaLA]

92. No snark: I'm so relieved to see your post

I've been astonished, and maybe more than a little appalled, at the people with the WHO'S HE? WHY SHOULD I CARE? stuff from people with Biden as their preferred candidate. It pains me to say this, but when I posted an article by Mr Coates in 2016 in which he criticized the junior senator from VT, supporters of his, who were often not an especially nice group, were at least willing to engage in a semi-respectful discussion.

[nolabear]

99. I know. We have gone way too far in the direction of sniping for an audience.

I miss depth and curiosity, not in place of righteous anger, but as a careful precursor and tool to use. It’s not a simple, two dimensional world and we can’t just yell “Right! Wrong!” And expect to gain any ground.

[Autumn]

119. Thank you for that. I don't always agree with him on something but his writing and his

view on things is important to me.

[BlueTsunami2018]

67. He wasn't "celebrating" his relationship with the guy.

Why is everyone lying about what Joe actually said?

It’s really annoying.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

72. Merriam-Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/celebrate

celebrate verb
cel·​e·​brate | ˈse-lə-ˌbrāt

3: to hold up or play up for public notice

[Demit]

75. Maybe if Biden hadn't garbled the story he's told before, people wouldn't be so confused.

Here's some background on the anecdote Biden was apparently trying to tell:

"After Biden’s remarks at the Wednesday night fundraiser, advisers played down his comments about Eastland as a garbled rendition of a familiar Biden anecdote. In particular they sought to excuse Biden for saying that Eastland didn’t refer to him as “boy” — an insult leveled at African American men — but as “son.”

“He just misspoke,” said one Biden adviser. “The way Biden usually tells the story, he says Eastland didn’t call him ‘senator,’ he called him ‘son,’ ” the adviser said. “Eastland called him ‘boy’ and ‘son’ also. This was Eastland’s way of diminishing young senators.”


You can't really blame people for trying to make sense of what a person is saying when the person himself mixes up what he meant.

[crazytown]

76. Spin: That is not what TNC said.

He said: “you decide to celebrate the fact these people were polite“. That is accurate.

[Demit]

90. I wish they'd just let him back into the Senate somehow.

Maybe as an honorary member, or a roving senator from no particular state. He so obviously misses it, slingin the hash with the guys like in the good ole days. Man, that was a time.

[Nanjeanne]

73. Thanks for this. I watch Democracy Now almost every morning and saw this interview. The whole

interview is interesting and I love hearing different perspectives and intelligent interviews.

[Celerity]

96. +1

[Thomas Hurt]

85. Does that apply if the alternative is fn Trump?

[still_one]

89. Democracy Now who did their best to dissuade people from voting for Hillary.

[BootinUp]

91. Spin spin spin. Nt

[tonedevil]

100. We could collect the responses in this thread...

and make a book called The Unbearable Whiteness of Democratic Underground. The question who or in some cases even what is Ta-Nehisi Coates shows an amazing pride in ignorance.

[Autumn]

139. As a WOC I'm appalled at what I'm seeing here. What's worse is some of them asking who or

what is Ta-Nehisi Coates are in past threads, posted here on DU discussing whatever OP was posted about him. That's not ignorance. All a person has to do is use the DU search function on Ta-Nehisi Coates.

[tonedevil]

140. It is frequently appalling...

when any non-white people are discussed here. The toxic whiteness is palpable sometimes and I say this as an old white man.

[lark]

102. What did he do to help HRC get elected?

Was he one of the Bernie Bros because it sure sounds like it? I know Joe isn't perfect, he's grown and learned a lot over the years, but this just reeks of purity politics and it seems like he thinks that Joe is as big a threat as drumpf, which should tell any Democrat committed to winning all they need to know.

I am with Joe because I think he has the best chance of winning and stopping the lawless march to invalidate our constitution and to take everything from the working class and steal it for the rich. If one of the other Dems catches wind and soars and wins it all, I will be all in for them. It pisses me off when people start saying about legitimate candidates that they wouldn't vote for them when the alternative is a fascist dictator in waiting. If that's what he wants, well, why should anything he says about it matter?

I don't really know much about him other than he is obviously a good writer from his awards. Maybe he did support & vote for HRC, but I never heard of him during the campaign, so that's why my hackles are raised a bit.

[samir.g]

205. He voted for her

[Turin_C3PO]

104. I respect his opinion but strongly disagree.

[Retrograde]

108. I recommend his book, "We Were Eight Years in Power"

a collection of essays mostly about politics during the Obama era. His essay on reparations made me think about the issue in a new light.

[emulatorloo]

118. A great book

[Scurrilous]

111. So far I've been able to find this story on two sites only.

Democracy Now and Breitbart. It's good to see the two sides working together.

[George II]

114. I'll take the word of John Lewis over Coates any day:

Link to tweet

[Turin_C3PO]

116. Yes.

I respect Coates but I respect Lewis more.

[hlthe2b]

161. +1 I find it difficult to see those who fought for civil rights relegated to dustbin of history

when they are STILL fighting. TNC is welcome to his opinions and I agree that he is intelligent and has thoughtful opinions that should be heard, but I WILL call out those that are disrespectful to the very leaders who made it possible. And that TNC had virtually NOTHING good to say about our first AA President still rankles me.

[aikoaiko]

149. I'll take them both. John Lewis doesn't have to be offended for TNC to be correct.

John Lewis will defend his friends when they need his help.

[emulatorloo]

117. Coates is great. I know democracynow wants to destroy Biden, but it's not going to happen.

John Lewis is speaking out in favor of Biden as other old school courageous civil rights leaders.

Biden is in no way shape or form a racist or supporter of segregation. Voters know that.

Warren also has a bullseye on her back as well. She’s being lied about too - she is being called a moderate Democrat who is the puppet of the establishment.

Some out of control campaign advisor needs a serious talking to by his candidate. These slash and burn campaigns against Biden and Warren aren’t doing that candidate any favors. And I know the candidate can’t be on board with this, that candidate is against negative campaigning.

At any rate, this bullshit isn’t going to take either Biden or Warren down.

[BlueWI]

145. Under the bus now!

He was a hero when he criticized Sanders. But this is different!

[myohmy2]

152. ...love him or hate him...

...this can't be denied

" Joe Biden owes his very presence in the race, right now, to the first black president, to Barack Obama. And if it were up to Eastland, and if it were up to Talmadge, Barack Obama would not only not be in the White House, he actually would not exist. "

...

[Polly Hennessey]

154. The world does not revolve around

T-N Coates although he may think it does. It is his opinion that is all. Really getting bored and irritated with all these authors and pundits telling us how to think. I am positive that African-Americans are capable of thinking and deciding for themselves. He should be encouraging people to vote. That is what matters not his opinion. I will take the word of John Lewis over the opinions of Coates any day.

[OnDoutside]

159. Here we go again....

This sort of shit is the rock the democratic party will perish on in 2020.

[Autumn]

162. If people giving their opinion on a candidate, one of many, running for president will cause the

Democratic party to perish? The party is in deep trouble.

[OnDoutside]

163. Were you too young to remember the damage done in 2016 by the

likes of Brother West etc ? Coates is an "influencer".

This is a simple proposition, Trump or the Democratic Party nominee. People like Coates should keep that in mind, before continuing to do the work of Trump.

[Autumn]

164. The damage I saw was from the electoral college, Russian meddling and 3 states, called the

Blue Wall not holding for the Dem nominee. You should ask yourself why and how that happened. I'm well in my 60's so I'm old enough to know how a presidential primary, an event that happens every 4 years, works.
You do realize that the Democratic party does not yet have a nominee?

[OnDoutside]

166. You're forgetting depressed African American turnout in key states

Like Michigan. Coates and other African Americans might be content in giving Biden a kicking for failings of the past, but this shit has consequences, and will make Biden the Hillary of 2020 should he get the nomination.

There are plenty of policy positions they could take him to task on rather than go down the path they are going down. That's the problem with fanatics, as long as they get their little win, they don't give a shit about the bigger picture.

[pnwmom]

168. You're forgetting voter suppression of millions of votes across the country

and hundreds of thousands in the key states, after the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was dismantled in 2013 -- one year after Obama won re-election. Despite that, Hillary won only 70K fewer votes than Obama in 2012 -- and only 80K less in what turned out to be the key states.

Black people didn't fail to turn out because they didn't like Hillary. They were pushed out. Voter ID is a deliberate tactic to reduce voting by poor people -- and it works, because poor people often don't have cars or driver's licenses, particularly those who live in cities.

[OnDoutside]

169. That's all equally true, but that isn't the discussion at hand.

[pnwmom]

170. I think it is. The problem in 2016 wasn't Coates. It was massive voter suppression,

coupled with the Comey interventions, along with Russian interference.

[treestar]

174. that will all still happen, so we need huuuuge turnout

turnout lowers when the candidate is so battered that too many people think "they're all alike" and don't care enough to vote. There were enough in those swing states to throw them to the Dotard.

[pnwmom]

175. We need to help people get registered AND get proper voter ID's. nt

[OnDoutside]

181. No, I wasn't referring to Coates in 2016, but people like Cornell West,

Nina Turner and even Eddie "I can't vote for Hillary"Claude. I believe if all sides of the Democratic Party work together and stop self inflicted wounds, they can give the Republicans a biblical beating.

[Still In Wisconsin]

176. So, add another shooter to the Democratic Party circular firing squad.

Sigh. The more things change...

[UniteFightBack]

190. He is not objective. He wants want he wants and that is all. nt

[Autumn]

191. Neither are you objective. Few are. You want what you want, and what you want is no more

valid than what Ta-Nehisi Coates or I want. That is all.

[UniteFightBack]

192. You are wrong about my objectivity but you are right with few are. nt

[tonedevil]

195. LOL... /nt

[Autumn]

200. No. I'm not wrong, you display it time and time again. nt

[Midwestocrat]

194. Ta-Nehisi Coates DID NOT SUPPORT OBAMA.

Who the hell cares what he thinks?

[Autumn]

201. Plenty of people care. Plenty of people don't care. nt

[wyldwolf]

197. Who?

Thanks for your concern.

[Autumn]

202. I'm not concerned. Obviously you are but I see no need to thank you for your concern

since that term is such an outdated last-ditch insult.

[wyldwolf]

203. Did someone thank you for anything?

Are you the know-nothing this thread
is about?



Tinehisi who??

[Autumn]

207. You did. If your post were about him it would have been "his concern is noted."

wyldwolf (42,362 posts)

197. Who?

Thanks for your concern.

We all know what thanks for your concern is. It's an accusation that the person posting is a concern troll. It's been used here on DU for years.

[wyldwolf]

209. You're Ta-Nehisi Coates????

Wow. I mean, eh.

[Autumn]

211. Did you post to him? You posted to me, I posted the OP

but yeah keep flailing. I can't believe people dig up an OP from June 21.

[wyldwolf]

214. I posted about him.

But keep flailing. Every cycle there’s
those who DUsplain what other posters
really meant. You’re one.

[samir.g]

206. ITT: whitesplaining about how TNC's opinion is invalid and no one knows who he is anyway

[Autumn]

212. You might not know who he is but a lot of people do know who he is.

Not everyone is in a bubble.

P.S. I'm a WOC.

[Celerity]

218. +10000

You are a great poster and based off our talks, a real class person. I am so glad I met you here.

[samir.g]

219. Of course I know who he is.

Also a POC.