Biden-Harris debate over busing spills out onto campaign trail

[bluewater]

Harris’ debate performance was widely praised and prompted a surge in state and national opinion polls.
But in the days since, Harris has faced backlash after appearing to backtrack on her support of federally mandated busing.
On Wednesday at a West Des Moines picnic, Harris indicated she believed school districts today should make the voluntary decision on whether to bus students in order to integrate de-facto segregated schools.

“I think of busing as being in the toolbox of what is available and what can be used for the goal of desegregating America’s schools," Harris said in response to a question from a reporter. Pressed for clarification on her stance, Harris said: “I believe that any tool that is in the toolbox should be considered by a school district.”

That statement led many within the Biden campaign to say that Harris essentially agrees with Biden. She pushed back on that notion at an Indianola house party Thursday afternoon.

“Sadly, we do not agree,” she said. She said that although she currently supports voluntary busing, it was wrong to oppose it in the 1960s and 1970s when “there were forces and individuals and supposed leaders in our country who actively worked against the integration of schools based on race.”

“I’ve asked him and have yet to hear him agree that busing that was court-ordered and mandated in most places and in that era in which I was bused was necessary,” Harris said.

“He has yet to agree that his position on this, which was to work with segregationists and oppose busing, was wrong. Period.”

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/07/04/joe-biden-kamala-harris-iowa-caucuses-2020-4th-july-busing-school-integration-debate-exchange/1647944001/

Harris made an excellent point. The racial atmosphere in 2019 is totally different than it was in the 1970's when racist state politicians were actively suppressing African Americans.

[SunSeeker]

1. Excellent statements by Harris. Unfortunately, some people don't get nuance. nt

[bluewater]

2. I think a lot of people understand the nuance

Biden has lost half of his support among African American Democrats already. His polls in general are down also.

[SunSeeker]

3. True. nt

[highplainsdem]

11. The new ABC/WaPo post-debate poll has Biden with 41% of black support, Harris with only 11%.

Editing to add the link to an article about the poll:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-scores-debate-performance-electability-biden-front/story?id=64092090

Notably among groups, while Harris challenged Biden on the subject of race in their debate, his support is especially strong among blacks, 41%, 12 points higher than it is overall. Harris’ support, by contrast, is not differentiated by race and ethnicity – 11% among blacks and an identical 11% among all leaned Democrats. Warren, for her part, has notably low support among nonwhites, 5%.

[Cha]

21. That's not true.. Biden hasn't lost 1/2 his African

American support".

The new ABC/WaPo post-debate poll has Biden with 41% of black support, Harris with only 11%.

Notably among groups, while Harris challenged Biden on the subject of race in their debate, his support is especially strong among blacks, 41%, 12 points higher than it is overall. Harris’ support, by contrast, is not differentiated by race and ethnicity – 11% among blacks and an identical 11% among all leaned Democrats. Warren, for her part, has notably low support among nonwhites, 5%.

ETA..

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-scores-debate-performance-electability-biden-front/story?id=64092090

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287189624#post11

Link to tweet

Biden lands 2020 endorsement from Atlanta Mayor Bottoms

"The larger context was that you have to work across the aisle with people you don't like, people you don't agree with," Bottoms said. "I do it each and every day as mayor of Atlanta in a red state."

Bottoms added that Biden's work on civil rights issues and his progressive resume demonstrate his commitment and that the remarks were blown out of proportion.

"My position is, if his explanation was good enough for John Lewis, then it's good enough for me," Bottoms added, referring to the Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was among Biden's defenders after the controversy.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/biden-nabs-2020-endorsement-atlanta-mayor-bottoms-64012750

[bluewater]

24. Reuters/Ipsos poll: Biden's support from black voters cut in half after debate

The survey, conducted from Friday to Monday in the days following the debate in Miami, found 22 percent of adults who identify as Democrats or independents said they supported Biden, down 8 percentage points from a similar poll conducted earlier in June.

Support for Biden among blacks, a critical Democratic voting bloc, was cut in half, with about two out of 10 saying they backed President Barack Obama’s former vice president, compared with four out of 10 in the June poll.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/bidens-support-from-black-voters-cut-in-half-after-debate-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1TY1AM

[Cha]

26. I don't believe it.. the ABC poll says differently

Notably among groups, while Harris challenged Biden on the subject of race in their debate, his support is especially strong among blacks, 41%, 12 points higher than it is overall. Harris’ support, by contrast, is not differentiated by race and ethnicity – 11% among blacks and an identical 11% among all leaned Democrats. Warren, for her part, has notably low support among nonwhites, 5%.

ETA..

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-scores-debate-performance-electability-biden-front/story?id=64092090

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. Nate rates the ABC poll A+. That Reuters poll the poster keeps bragging about is an "online" poll..

and we know what an online poll is worth.

[Cha]

40. Yeah, that might be why

I didn't get a reply.. Thanks for report from Nate, Tarheel!

[SunsetDreams2]

4. K&R

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand the difference between what was happening back then vs now.

[sandensea]

5. Great. More ammunition for the Chumpkins.

Busing is the losing issue from the 70s. Why revive it now?

And at this critical moment!?

[EffieBlack]

6. Important lesson learned for Biden

If he doesn’t want to talk about busing, the next time he touts how well he works with people on the other side of the aisle, don’t point to the time he worked with Democratic segregationists to pass anti-busing legislation.

Problem solved!

[bluewater]

7. +1000

[sandensea]

10. True.

He should've never brought that up either.

That's always been Biden's big disadvantage: la bouche!

[nsd]

13. Harris plotted this attack months in advance. This is all her. / nt

[Celerity]

19. Biden totally self-inflicted in terms of the amplitude of the fallout via his problematic framing

and dredging it up, thus bringing it present, and then doubling down and demanding Booker apologise. Nothing new for Joe, he has a long history of self-implosion when it comes to prezzie campaigns. He played right into Harris' hands. She would have been a fool to not proactively take advantage of his blundering.

[EffieBlack]

31. Then he REALLY blew it by 1) not having the savvy to figure out her nefarious, months-long plot; and

2) jumping right into her trap ...

[treestar]

35. It was Harris who brought up the issue of busing

Biden was making a point about being able to make a deal with the Republicans in the 70s which can't be done today. There were many issues other than busing.

[tishaLA]

36. Those segregationists weren't repubs

They were Democrats, which actually makes it worse. He could have named asshole repubs--there's not a dearth of them--or any of the many Democrats who weren't segregationists but were nonetheless miserable human beings.

[Eko]

8. They arent now?

Perhaps less well known is the extent to which American schools are still segregated. According to a recent Times article, “More than half of the nation’s schoolchildren are in racially concentrated districts, where over 75 percent of students are either white or nonwhite.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/learning/lesson-plans/still-separate-still-unequal-teaching-about-school-segregation-and-educational-inequality.html

[sl8]

34. If 75% of students are either white or nonwhite, what are the remaining 25% of students? n/t

[StarfishSaver]

37. Lol

Good question!

[Eko]

41. Pretty simple.

If 75 percent of students are white then the remaining 25 percent are non white in that district.
If 75 percent of students are non white then the remaining 25 percent are white in that district.

[sl8]

42. Thank you. n/t

[highplainsdem]

9. She can push back on this all she wants, but her backtracking is the subject of a lot of tweets

the last few days. I've seen the word "waffling" used, too.

And the tweets about her backtracking pop up whether you search Twitter for

kamala harris

or

biden

or

harris debate.


I first noticed this when a lot showed up just searching for

biden

and it was one tweet after another about her backtracking.

[bluewater]

14. Biden's support from black voters cut in half

Biden's support from black voters cut in half after debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll
Politics July 3, 2019 / 6:07 AM / a day ago

Former Vice President Joe Biden, the early front-runner for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination, has lost support among African-Americans after taking heat on racial issues during the party’s first debate, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.

The survey, conducted from Friday to Monday in the days following the debate in Miami, found 22 percent of adults who identify as Democrats or independents said they supported Biden, down 8 percentage points from a similar poll conducted earlier in June.
Support for Biden among blacks, a critical Democratic voting bloc, was cut in half, with about two out of 10 saying they backed President Barack Obama’s former vice president, compared with four out of 10 in the June poll.

African-Americans largely supported Biden when he entered the race for the right to challenge Republican President Donald Trump in the
But they appeared to be looking elsewhere after Kamala Harris, a U.S. senator from California also seeking the presidency, criticized Biden for opposing mandatory busing to integrate schools in the 1970s and for his cooperation with segregationists while he was a young senator.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/bidens-support-from-black-voters-cut-in-half-after-debate-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1TY1AM

More endorsements from members of the House Black Caucus have been made this week as Harris' support continues to grow.

[highplainsdem]

16. See my reply 11 above, to your reply 2. The new ABC/WaPo poll shows Biden with nearly 4 times as

much support from blacks as Harris has, 41% to 11%.

[bluewater]

17. And yet somehow, from somewhere, Voters have surged Harris into 2nd place in the polls

So, which poll to believe?

[highplainsdem]

18. She's not in second place in all polls.

[bluewater]

22. The Harris Surge is real

Where do you think all those voters came from?

Harris surges to third place in national poll after debate
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-democratic-debates-1390740

The three polls of likely Democratic voters — two were national surveys, and one polled Iowa caucus goers — all showed Ms. Harris leaping into second place in the days after last week’s debates. They also showed a dip in support for Mr. Biden, though more than one in five respondents still said he was their first choice to become the Democratic presidential nominee.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/harris-surges-in-3-polls-after-her-debate-performance/ar-AADMvuZ

[highplainsdem]

25. It's a post debate bounce, and we'll see how long it lasts. She's getting more scrutiny now.

And even in the polls where she's temporarily made it to second place, she's way the hell behind Biden when people are polled on which candidate they think is most electable.

The term I've seen applied to her most often on Twitter recently is "backtracking." She hasn't quite acquired the nickname Kamala "Backtracker" Harris, but people are questioning her sincerity and how authentic her attack on Biden was.

And those are people who aren't Biden fans.

I even saw a meme of a woman dancing backward in a tweet about how confusing Harris's backtracking is. That was from a Mayor Pete supporter who's a producer with America's Got Talent.

[emmaverybo]

27. Her performance as a DA and AG will get serious scrutiny. As it should. She will have to explain

many decisions as well as inaction. Questions about sincerity and authenticity vs. personal political advantage arise in the context of her prosecutorial role in SF snd her tenure as AG, not only her debate performance.

Biden has higher numbers among black voters because he has a more extensive record in supporting civil rights than Harris does.

[Thekaspervote]

20. And that same poll has Harris at 10% behind sanders at 16%... so still not a good look for her

The bellwether state for the AA vote is SC. You can take a look at it ... or not

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/south-carolina/

And his overall approval with AA voters is at 36%....USA Today 7/4/2020

[PatrickforO]

12. I get what Harris is saying. I was just a kid but I watched the televised accounts

of civil rights marchers getting clubbed and attacked by vicious dogs.

And if we look at Alabama, Georgia and other states in the Deep South now, we see very clearly that when it comes to civil rights, voting rights, women's rights, these states will NOT do the right thing. This is why we have a strong federal government to ensure that everyone's interests are fairly upheld. At least in theory.

So Harris is right about busing. Sure, maybe states can self-police it now, and be voluntary, but back in the 60s and 70s, the feds were needed to enforce it.

You've really got to wrap your head around the whole 'states rights' thing because many times it is just an excuse for voter suppression, gerrymandering (thanks to the new Supreme Court mis-ruling) and abortion rights. To name just a few.

[bluewater]

23. +1000

[delisen]

28. Reminded of the Phil Ochs song: Love me, I'm a Liberal which poked fun at

a perceived tendency of liberals (or progressives if you will) to be 10 degrees to the left of center; and then 10 to the right of center when it affected them personally.
this may be a bit dated but Phil Ochs fans of way back when were not afraid of the critique.

Ah, the people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
Now, I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crane?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Yes, I read New Republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I attend all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
And I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal



Sadly Phil Ochs had depression and committed suicide at a young age

[StarfishSaver]

30. Yep. Liberals were all for integration - until they had to do the integrating

Then it became "forced busing" and they wanted no parts of it.

And even today, supposed liberals are repeating segregationist states's rights talking points bemoaning "federal intervention into local affairs" to justify their opposition to busing.

Pretty outrageous.

[FloridaBlues]

29. Thought his response was to the point and well said.

Can media and others focus on other issues.

[Loki Liesmith]

32. Lol at this 50 year old issue

[NYMinute]

33. Busing is a dead horse

but …. it's a free country … so anyone can keep beating it with high hopes.

[littlemissmartypants]

38. Ugh. This again? No offense bluewater but there are LOTS

of threads on this subject floating around. I skimmed this one, sorry I just couldn't dedicate to a thorough reading. I hope you forgive me.