Andrew Yang Wants to Save Your Dying Mall

[brooklynite]

CityLab

Entrepreneur and presidential hopeful Andrew Yang has a new policy proposal that promises to set him apart in the crowded Democratic field. He hopes to address an issue affecting the economic vitality of communities all across the country. Yang wants to save the malls.

According to his campaign, some 300 malls will fold over the next 4 years, a number in line with an estimate by Credit Suisse that one-quarter of all malls will close by 2022. Many dozens or hundreds more will struggle as anchor stores collapse and retail outlets wither. Yang’s American Mall Act would devote $6 billion to finding new purposes for these dying retail complexes.

Yang announced the plan over the weekend in a video from Columbia Place, a shopping hub in suburban Columbia, South Carolina, that today is only a shadow of its former self. “It’s a massive challenge to try to keep these structures vital and filled,” Yang said in the spot. “No one wants to go to the vast empty parking lot.”

It’s an apparent pitch to Palmetto State voters who recognize the retail apocalypse as a potential spur for suburban blight. With it, Yang has landed on a niche issue that could benefit from some visionary thinking: greyfields, economically obsolete real-estate assets so named for the asphalt expanses of their vacant parking lots.

So now he has TWO minutes of things to say at the next debate?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Maybe they should die.

And maybe Andrew Yang should direct his efforts to something besides running for a political office he has absolutely no chance of getting.

[brush]

7. Yang has some good ideas worth listening to: The 1k a month guaranteed...

income, paid for by penny transaction Wall street fees IIRC, would be an economic spark as that money would be spent right away by most who get it, and the mall proposal is also of some merit. Why let those huge structures and their parking lots die when they can be re-purposed and generate economic activity?

Yang may not become the nominee but with his ideas he seems like a good cabinet pick—say Labor, Urban Development, Commerce, HUD?

Why so negative?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. He might be a good cabinet pick. He shouldn't be cluttering up the debate stage

as a candidate for the presidency. He's just another rich guy with no experience in government who thinks ideas are enough.

[brush]

14. The number of debates will serve as a winnowing process.

Those who don't make the cut will halt their campaigns when they don't meet the higher and higher debate entry thresholds (see Eric Swalwell, he just dropped out).

Perez and his staff have thought it out well. Why not let it play out? The field will be whittled down more after the second debate when donors pull away from the weaker candidates.

[Bradshaw3]

19. He does have good ideas

The re-purposing of malls is another and one that needs to be addressed, especially with the housing crisis we have in this country. I don't want him on the debate stage but do appreciate his thoughtful input into certain discussions.

[brush]

20. He has as much right to be on the debate stage as anyone else.

Half those people are there for exposure and possible book deals later. He met the threshold to be there and that's that.

[Bradshaw3]

23. No it's not

The DNC had to come up with a system and any system that allows Marianne Williamson and Yang on there while keeping Bullock out is flawed. That is that.

[brush]

24. Please. If you can't meet such a low threshold, forget it.

[Bradshaw3]

25. The threshold they devised was flawed

They were dealing with something they never had before. And if the threshold they chose allowed those two to get in and someone as qualified as Bullock to not get in, then it is obviously flawed.

[brush]

26. That's one way of looking at it. Another is that anyone who hasn't reached...

at least 1% on three national polls plus having at least 65k unique donors, FYI: the actual, bare minimum requirements, is hardly ready for prime time on the debate stage.

The thresholds double for the Sept. debate but if he couldn't reach them for either of the very low threshold first two debates, well...

[Bradshaw3]

29. Hahahha. Yeah but Mariane Williamson IS ready for primetime?

Laughable.

[bluewater]

30. What solution would you propose?

Serious question. OK, say the current system is flawed, what replaces it?

[Bradshaw3]

33. I don't blame the DNC

They were presented with a unique situation in - not just the number of candidates - but the fact that in the internet age people who are clearly not qualified but who have lots of "followers" such as a self-help guru can get those followers to make it appear as if there is a groundswell for their candidacy.

I don't know a perfect system but just off the top of my head you perhaps could use some metric such as lists of endorsements from elected Democratic officials. Others may have other ideas. Again I'm not blaming the DNC as I'm sure the donor metric seemed like a good idea but to me it's obvious when a two-term popular governor doesn't qualify (even if he got a late start) while an ant-vaxxer, spirit guide does that is a flaw. Unless of course we want to do like the repubs and nominate a celebrity like Kim Kardashian. I prefer candidates who have proven they can do things like legislate, understand complex topics, negotiate, etc.

[customerserviceguy]

31. Agreed

Mostly, they sell overpriced clothing that a lot of Americans already have more than enough of. Yes, I like to try on clothing before I buy it, but open-air strip malls without the heating and cooling costs are the places I go for that.

[rainin]

2. I've wished that malls could be turned into 3rd spaces

Congregations spaces where the community could meet:

Trampoline park
Dance Halls
Movie theaters
Restaurants
Meeting rooms
Comedy clubs
Bars
Indoor skydiving
Martial Arts studios

People need safe places to take the family or for young people to hang out with their friends. A mall has parking and plenty of room for every kind of fun activity you might want.

[Brainstormy]

3. Senior housing. n/t

[Merlot]

12. Turns out it's really hard to turn malls into housing

A lack of windows and plumbing are just two issues. Not that it can't be done, but it's probably more expensive than tearing it down and starting over.

[SouthernProgressive]

8. The mall down the road from me has most of what you highlight.

They also have two large family areas for children to play. I take my child there. A lot of thought was put into it. Fun, educational and free. Unless you want to ride the train through the mall. Then it's $3.

[brush]

4. Yang has substantive proposals worth listening to. This mall revival plan...

and of course his $1000 guaranteed income plan. IMO certainly worth more than two minutes discussion.

And btw, he hardly got any air time in the first round while others were called on multiple times and even given response time when others opposed their views, meanwhile those on the edges of the stage were rarely asked to contribute. Yang even openly speculated that his mike was shut off as he couldn't be heard when he tried to interject and be heard.

That complain will probably pay off in the second debate as the hosts won't want to be accused of it again—the sticky wheel gets the grease.

[brooklynite]

5. Yang was standing 10 ft from the moderators; he could have gotten their attention if he wanted to...

"My mike was broken" is a lazy excuse.

[brush]

11. He didn't say broken, he said shut off. And neither you or I know if it was or not.

You call it lazy, I call it making sure he gets more air time in the second round of debates.

[LanternWaste]

21. Your allegation is creative, though inaccurate again.

It's fun to throw them around. And, as evidence to support allegations are unnecessary (else they wouldn't be allegations), so why include them, right?

Evidence and accuracy are both often too inconvenient to the narratives we tell ourselves.

[brooklynite]

22. Funny how some other candidates managed to worm their way into the debate...

As for speculation, on what basis would MSNBC feel obliged to suppress the stirring message of Andrew Yang, as opposed to anyone else on stage?

[brush]

32. It was included because that's what Yang himself said.

[MineralMan]

6. If it is economically viable to convert malls to other uses,

that will happen whether there is government help or not. There are many ideas for what to do with those enormous spaces that are typically strategically located in suburban America. Schools, senior housing, other multi-residential housing, hotels, etc. are all possibilties.

However, such buildings have high maintenance and utility costs. They were designed with high rental rates per square foot in mind, just to cover those costs. Retail use was practical, since constant cash flow from retail businesses and the attractiveness of housing multiple retail operations under one roof were popular enough to pay those high bills.

Other uses are not a lucrative, in terms of cash flow, really. Housing has to be competitive with other multi-housing properties, that make much more efficient use of space. Malls feature very large common spaces that must be heated and cooled, but that do not produce any income.

So, while many people have thought of converting malls to other uses, we're not seeing such projects actually being implemented. I suspect that's because when the math gets done about maintenance and utility costs, the figures don't add up. '

Without large revenue streams generated by occupants in a mall-type space, I'm betting that those structures are not economically viable.

[brush]

10. Seems those huge, extant structures need imaginative, re-purposing ideas.

Who says the structures have to be used as they are without change? They're already there for those with a vision and creativity to build on, which IMO is better than demolishing them and starting over or just let them sit and become huge eyesores of blight. Yang as HUD Secretary or Commerce or Labor or even Urban Development Secretary and proper funding and staff could possibly turn closed or struggling malls into heretofore unimagined and beneficial additions to their communities and economies.

IMO, well worth a try.

[MineralMan]

16. In many cases, repurposing them through remodeling can cost

more than building a new building or facility from scratch. It's not that people are not looking for ways to repurpose those empty malls. They are. It's a very attractive possibility, but we're not seeing it happening so far. Something is standing in the way of that, and I'll bet it's financial.

For example, here's a huge problem that gets in the way of converting them into multi-housing projects:

Plumbing and mechanical systems were designed for large square footage divisions in the buildings. A retail store, for example, has just a couple of bathrooms, usually located at the rear of the space, near an outer wall. If you divide up those spaces into apartments or even expansive condominium quarters, a great deal of new plumbing will be required, and will also require re-engineering the existing system to provide more capacity. Similarly, heating and air conditioning, along with electrical service, was planned, engineered, and installed for those large retail spaces. It's either in dropped ceilings in the spaces or under the floor. Significant demolition and reconstruction would be required to adjust those installations for use in the divided spaces.

Other issues: residential use requires windows on the outside of the building. People will not rent or buy living spaces without windows. But, malls are not designed that way at all. The glass all faces the interior of the building, and the exterior is typically built without windows at all. The cost of doing something about that is enormous. The structures are simply not designed to include exterior windows.

Anyhow, those are just a couple of issues that would have to be solved, and they're very, very expensive issues, indeed.

[brush]

17. Housing has already been done. See the video on this thread.

[MineralMan]

18. Yes, I've seen that before.

Looks like prison housing to me, and enormous amounts of space in the building is wasted by simply lining the exterior of the building with small apartments. I see what they did. Now, how will it all work out when those spaces are done and available? I don't know. Various ideas are being tried, and we'll have to wait and see how it all works out.

[Blue_true]

34. The best idea is to take a wrecking ball to them.

Then rebuild what is desired on the open land.

[MineralMan]

35. In many cases, that's true.

However, there might be specific malls that lend themselves to repurposing. There's one near me that looks like a ghost town these days. It used to be a very popular mall, but online shopping has put an end to that. It has just two floors. Last time I visited it, I tried looking at it as a candidate for a new use, but couldn't really see any way to make such a thing work, based on the design of the building and the window-less outside walls. A lot of engineering would be involved in adding exterior windows on such tall, load-bearing walls, I'd think.

For me, that is the biggest issue with such buildings. People don't like working or living in buildings with no view to the outside.

[Blue_true]

41. Most people need to see natural light.

Sounds like the mall that you mentioned is a candidate for demolition.

[Indygram]

13. Turn them into housing

[MrsCoffee]

15. That was also my first thought.

I had seen that video before.

I think it would be a wonderful idea.

[Thekaspervote]

27. Our mall is gone and it has helped spur new interest in main street, I'm glad it's gone!

[JI7]

36. +

[Politicub]

28. He might have watched the new season of Stranger Things and had the thought.

A mall is a major part of this season.

And coincidentally, a dying mall in Georgia was used as the set. The producers made it look like a shiny new mall from 1985. It was glorious and took me back.

[JI7]

37. no thanks.

[Sunlei]

38. public hospitals, prisons, homeless shelters dormitory style- we need hospitals/clinics

[IronLionZion]

39. Depends on several factors, but some malls need to die

and might be better off demolished and turned into parks or greenspaces, or housing or educational campuses or something else. Then there are malls in some urban areas that look worn out but serve niche ethnic communities or low income folks who would still need some viable options for shopping and employment.

Working with zoning law updates to repurpose massive parking lots is a good idea. Even though Yang is an ideas guy, he has bold good ideas that our party needs to discuss. It would benefit our mainstream candidates to include some of these policies in our party's general election campaign since the other party won't. Dying malls are often in suburban swing districts that could benefit from smart economic development opportunities.

[Act_of_Reparation]

40. Remember when we were supposed to save downtown from the malls?