Podium positions for the second debates (visual)

[True Dough]

[hlthe2b]

1. Oh, gawd... I like Booker & Harris but are they just going to spend all night attacking Biden on

their Left and Right side (location), respectively? I sure as hell hope not. Address current POLICY differences, damn it, not historical grievances.

This "drawing" may have been essentially random, but those lineups look awfully contrived to me.

[still_one]

2. no kidding. I think Biden, Booker, and Harris will do just fine, and be respectful of each other

Regardless, I think Biden will be quite prepared for anything

[Cha]

25. Such Optimism!

[ecstatic]

3. Honestly, I think Biden will be in a lot of trouble because he will be restrained

and forced to be mindful of his tone. He'll have to be respectful yet confident.

Cory has a huge opportunity, as he will be side by side with Biden and viewers will be able to make a direct contrast--both on substance and superficial aspects.

[hlthe2b]

5. If he goes back to the "well" of how Biden made him "feel" once again, Booker will not

be perceived well. He will look incredibly weak and viewers will not be able to stop imagining how Trump would absolutely skewer him with that.

Booker is smart, but he has to get past the damned grievances and show his policy grasp and difference and maybe just maybe how he'd take on Trump. Kamala is at an advantage on the latter score.

[highplainsdem]

14. Especially if Booker were to say "I felt disrespected" in a hurt tone and follow up with a

t-shirt...to be followed by news stories about how rehearsed it all was.

I hope we get a more serious debate, a substantive debate.

[peggysue2]

34. I'm expecting Booker to throw the punch this time out

I don't think it will serve Kamala Harris well to reignite the busing argument with Joe Biden, particularly after pivoting from her original remarks. However, that exchange did score her points and a poll bump. Cory Booker needs a 'moment' of his own if he's going to survive. So, it wouldn't surprise me if he nurses that 'I felt disrespected' complaint made over the last few weeks. The problem with that line of attack is anything Biden presumably said or didn't say pales in comparison to Donald Trump's latest stunt, a full-blown nod to fascism and racial bigotry.

We shall see. Should be interesting!

[ecstatic]

23. I agree. Nobody wants to see them attacking each other and empowering trump.

I want to hear policy only (or attacks on trump. lol).

[madaboutharry]

4. The drawings were on live tv.

They were totally random.

[hlthe2b]

6. So are lotteries, but there was a big scandal in this regard few years back. Google it if interested

[madaboutharry]

16. No scandal this time.

Shuffled up cards picked out of boxes. It really was an honest process. Pinky swear.

[hlthe2b]

17. I believe you.. (I didn't watch)

[DeminPennswoods]

40. Candidates were divided into tiers first

Biden, Warren, Harris, Sanders were in the top tier. The other candidates were grouped in a couple other tiers, presumably based on their polling.

Then it was a random draw for each tier so that one group didn't have all or most of the candidates who are atop the current polls or near the bottom.

So you have Biden and Harris again on day 2, then Warren and Sanders and day 1.

[highplainsdem]

8. I don't think the optics of having the two black candidates on either side of Obama's VP, suggesting

he's a racist in any way, would be at all helpful to them OR to the Democratic Party.

[FloridaBlues]

19. This may not go well for any of them

[bluewater]

35. "but those lineups look awfully contrived to me."

Podium positions were determined by each candidate's standing in the approved polls.

Nothing contrived about it.

[hlthe2b]

36. Has not a thing to do with which night they were assigned. CNN did a "card draw"

I didn't say it WAS rigged/contrived, just that the results LOOK contrived.

[trueblue2007]

41. i feel CNN Cheated.... Seems contrived and opportunistic to me. ALL DONE 4 RATINGS

[Vegas Roller]

7. I hope senator Warren wipes the floor with Bernie

Then Nina Turner would know which one is the copy and which one is the original

[Me.]

9. This

[hlthe2b]

10. Yeah... that one might be "must watch tv"

[we can do it]

12. Me too.

[True Dough]

13. Perspectives from a couple of CNN pundits on that pairing...

From CNN's Gregory Krieg:

Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren will go head-to-head on July 30. There are no two top, or even middle-tier candidates, with so much in common.

Yes, they are drawing support in the polls from different demographic pools, but that doesn't mean those voters aren't drawn to them for similar reasons. The candidates seem to be taking a similar view: both have done their best to avoid any kind of confrontation, real or perceived, perhaps believing that the an attack on one could depress their own support.

For that reason, it will be incredibly interesting to see them share a debate stage. There's every chance what's effectively been a nonaggression pact will survive a debate night — with the pair using the platform to advocate for their mostly similar platforms.

Or...

Things could go a different way. If Sanders is worried that Warren is claiming the progressive mantle from him, he could question Warren on health care, and force her to talk more about Medicare for All. If Warren — who said "I'm with Bernie" on health care the first time around — seeks to differentiate herself, she could argue that she's a better choice, plans and all, to make their shared proposals a reality.



Analysis by Harry Enten:

The big night one matchup will be between Sanders and Warren. Despite both pulling most of their voters from the left, I’d bet that this pairing won’t produce the most memorable moment in night one. Why?

Well for one thing, the two senators have shown a reluctance to go after each other on the campaign trail. They seem to genuinely like each other.

But it’s more than that. I’m not sure either has much to gain. Sanders base is much more working class than Warren’s. That is, she does significantly better among whites with a college degree, while Sanders does significantly better among whites without a college degree.

If night one produces a moment, it might be a lower tier candidate try and make an electability or ideologically contrast case against Sanders or Warren.

[customerserviceguy]

28. I doubt that's going to happen

She has plenty of other targets, there are centrists on that stage with her who say that we can't (or shouldn't) do MFA, and if she does a better job of defending her position than Bernie does, she takes a few votes from him just by contrast. And she does it all without attacking him, which could provoke him to attack her.

She won't vanquish Bernie in one night, she's better off if his candidacy melts away all on its own over the string of pre-voting debates.

[trueblue2007]

42. I can't stand tuener. she has lied a lot

[ucrdem]

11. Not unlike the first debate.

Night 1: JV. Night 2: WWF Championship.

Also night 1 is white night. What's up with that??

[hlthe2b]

15. Well, at least it is gender diverse.

[ucrdem]

27. Purely accidental or not

it looks crass in a way that CNN particularly is often crass. And how accidental can that day 2 arrangement be?

[5starlib]

18. All the POC are on one night?

So I take the 2nd debate will be all about busing, segregationist while the real racist goes untouched in the WH.

[highplainsdem]

20. If it is about that, it'll be just as bad for Harris and Booker as for Biden, if not worse..

Obama was, and is, immensely popular.

So was -- and is -- his VP.

To have the two black candidates standing on either side of Biden and attacking him as a racist will look not only like an attack on Biden, but like a criticism of Obama for not only choosing him as a running mate but awarding him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[5starlib]

21. I hope you're right! I hope Joe is prepared to be attacked all over again

from each side. Joe would be smart to put the onus back on Trump and make him the target. He's the REAL racist, not Joe Biden!! Harris and Booker need to remember this.

[highplainsdem]

22. If they attack him, Biden should also ask if they believe Barack Obama would have chosen a racist

as his running mate.

Both Booker and Harris know very well Obama wouldn't have.

If they care at all about people comparing them to Obama -- if they'd like people to make that comparison (and I suspect they would) -- they'd be wise not to attack Obama's VP and friend as a racist.

[Cha]

26. That would be perfect, highplains!

The detractors would say.. he's leaning President Obama.. or whatever.

Damn Straight he's calling attention to the fact that Obama chose him as VP and said "it was one of the best decisions he ever made".

I've said that a lot of twitter lately when I see those tweeting "..segregationist.. " at Biden.

Now where in the hell did they get that lazy ass talking point from?

[customerserviceguy]

29. Booker and Harris' comebacks would be

"No, Joe, you're not a racist, but you say some things that look that way."

Joe will face a tough time with this lineup, he has de Blasio potentially lobbing in a few hand grenades of his own on the issue of race, mostly by interrupting, of course. Also, Biden faces Gillibrand for the first time, I expect her to attack him on his prior support for the Hyde Amendment.

[True Dough]

31. Good points!

Biden might as well show up wearing Kevlar. He's going to take some hard shots.

[customerserviceguy]

38. Yeah, I would suppose that his advisors

barely stop to eat, sleep or even use the bathroom in getting ready for this next debate. They have one tiny advantage, this will be the second of the pair, and Biden can possibly play off of topics from the first one that would establish him as a leader. Also, we have yet to see if Harris or Booker will look to handicap the other one with the African-American community. If Booker fails to do this at least a little bit, he's toast.

[highplainsdem]

32. I expect their attacks to backfire. But we'll see.

[customerserviceguy]

39. Me, too

but attacks clearly show that they raise not only awareness, but big buckets of money, too. With so many of these candidates facing early elimination, the temptation to attack now, and turn the funds raised into support later must be nearly irresistible.

[onetexan]

24. CNN did this on purpose

To raise the drama level of course

[Celerity]

30. Night one is going to be the battle of the far left (Sanders and Warren) versus the centrists and

centre left (Ryan, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, O'Rourke, Hickenlooper, Delaney, and Bullock). If you swap Williamson for Bennet, then you literally would have every centrist to centre left not named Biden going up against the 2 main hard left candidates. Beto is also a potential flare-up, as he may try and have a go Klobuchar and Pete (they are in his lane a bit). He has to make a move, one more Castro moment and Beto is toast. I think Bullock and Pete have to be the happiest with this draw. Warren is probably wishing she had Biden in her group, but thsi is her chance (and she will have a lot of potential help) to really sink the boots in to Bernie.

It can see some fireworks here for sure (and Bennet is really mild-mannered so probably the least attack minded anyway, although Pete was yet to take a swing at anyone but Rethugs so far as well). If those 7, PLUS Warren turn on Bernie, he might snap and go full 'get off my lawn!'.

Night two also going to be a real potential scrum. Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, de Blasio, Gabbard, and maybe Castro and Inslee (those two are hard to predict, but Inslee may take a poke over the climate change plans) all having a go at Biden. Bennet can come out looking quite presidential if he stays above the fray and tries to play peacemaker. Yang is the Williamson of night two. Biden is probably happy to not have Warren, but he certainly cannot be happy about most of the rest (other than perhaps Bennet and for sure Yang.)


Both nights are going to be interesting, unlike night one of the first debates.

[comradebillyboy]

33. Happy to see Hickenlooper made the second debate.

Even happier to see he's on the same stage as Bernie.

[Celerity]

37. why happy? He red-baits and feeds RW tropes that Dems are Marxist-Stalinist commies

https://www.unionleader.com/news/politics/hickenlooper-takes-aim-at-socialist-agenda-in-nh-appearance/article_18afc2e7-d06e-5015-96bb-d401c1217785.html?block_id=695277

“You have to hand it to the GOP for achieving the near-impossible,” said Hickenlooper. “Just years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, their greedy mismanagement has revived the lure of socialism for a whole generation of Americans. Who would have imagined the Koch Brothers and Donald Trump could help resuscitate the discredited ideas of Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin?”

He deffo is aiming that at your candidate, Harris (and any other supporter of MFA, along with supporters of other things he likes to label Stalinist)

He called universal healthcare and guaranteed jobs hazardous to the American people.

There are FAR better ways to criticise progressive-left Democrats than to go down the Marx-Stalinist red-baiting path. It opens all of us up to ludicrous charges by the Rethug scum.



Hickenlooper also is a huge proponent of the destructive practice of fracking, and has assisted in the huge increases of carbon fuel production in Colorado, including handouts to big coal.

Can Hickenlooper 2020 Outrun His “Frackenlooper” Legacy?

https://www.westword.com/news/can-hickenlooper-2020-outrun-frackenloopers-legacy-11258274

snip

Hickenlooper has touted the climate benefits of natural gas, which generally burns cleaner than coal — especially when leaks are minimized, as the methane-emissions rules enacted by the Hickenlooper administration in 2014 are designed to do. Many environmental groups credit the former governor for adopting those rules, which were the first of their kind in the country, and Hickenlooper’s announcement video listed them among his top accomplishments.

But it’s the production of oil, not natural gas, that skyrocketed under Hickenlooper’s leadership. When he took office in 2011, operators were pumping an average of about 2.7 million barrels per month; by last year, that figure had risen to an average of nearly 14 million, more than a five-fold increase. And with more than 6,000 new permits waiting to be approved by state regulators, this soaring growth in production won’t be slowing down any time soon.



The climate impacts of all this produced oil, once it is refined, burned and released into the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, could be catastrophic. According to a 2019 report by Oil Change International, the carbon emissions that result from the combustion of oil and gas extracted from the Denver Basin between now and 2050 are projected to total more than 50 gigatons — equal to the lifetime emissions of over 50 coal-fired power plants.

Nichols points to other, often overlooked aspects of Hickenlooper’s record, like his support for the West Elk coal mine in Gunnison County. As governor, he supported a request for a royalty rate reduction for the mine, helping operator Arch Coal save millions, and rebuffed calls from WildEarth Guardians and other groups to impose stricter limits on methane emissions, as he had with oil and gas facilities.

snip


Hickenlooper Admits To Drinking Fracking Fluid (under questioning by Al Franken)

He is a hard pass for me, sorry.