After that disgusting rally, the Sanders team decided "hey, let's compare our top Democratic rival

[Cha]

Link to tweet

FYI Tom Watson is Definitely Not a Biden Supporter but he does care about our Country and Planet.

Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=204945

Wasn't BS heralded as the "First one to sign the Unity Pledge!!!!"

2020 Candidates Begin Signing Unity Pledge, With Sanders Taking the Lead

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128793259

[ecstatic]

1. Wow, good point. Looks like he's going scorched earth again. nt

[NurseJackie]

89. Scorched earth is a perfect description for it.

Wow, good point. Looks like he's going scorched earth again. nt

Scorched earth is a perfect description for it.

[Cha]

109. And, we're here to

keep the Earth lush!

Jackie!

[Cha]

107. Says more about him

than anything about his targets.

[Gothmog]

131. This attack really says a great deal about the sanders campaign

[Cha]

174. Yeah.. status quo

[Gothmog]

175. Which is not a good thing

Attacking Biden is not a good move for sanders

[msongs]

2. some dream of the good old days when they were only in second place nt

[Cha]

110. Too bad!

[JI7]

3. Sanders is going after everyone right now. he is frustrated and angry

[trueblue2007]

19. and he is not gonna win this time around either. Hate isn't gonna win Bernie, don't you know that?

[Cha]

170. Yes, and he must think

that's the way to get more supporters.

[Gothmog]

171. I really doubt that Biden supporters will switch their support to sanders in any event

If a Biden supporter wants to shift support, they will switch to someone like Harris, Castro, Beto or Mayor Pete. There is no way that a Biden supporter would want to support sanders after these attacks

[Cha]

173. That's right.. it would be

Elizabeth for me.

[roody]

4. And what is the content of Sanders' criticism?

[Cha]

6. BS is Desperate to Compare Biden to trump.

End of story.

[Skya Rhen]

44. +1,000,000

[Cha]

178. Thank You!

[True Blue American]

46. In the process

Making himself sound like Trump!

[Cha]

48. No kidding!

Mahalo, True Blue American

[True Blue American]

55. Hello Cha!

Have you heard that Democrats are encouraging O’Rourke, Hickenlooper and a couple of others to runfor the Senate? That is what we need.

I still say Mitch will retire. He is trying to do as much damage as he can, while he can. His popularity in Ky. Is 35%.

[Cha]

59. I'm rooting for Amy McGrath in Kentucky!

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

We Desperately need the Senate, TBA.. Hopefully we'll get more excellent Dems to run for Senator!

[True Blue American]

64. Yes!

Never laid eyes on Rob Portman for 5 years. Now, he is all over. Tornado area over and over, helping every one. Up for election. But he really seems to be one of the good ones.

Sherrod Brown is every where. He won election by 7 or 8 points..

[Cha]

66. Good on Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio!

[CTyankee]

160. I wish he had decided to run for president. He would be so awesome...

[Cha]

161. Guess he figures he was

needed more in the Senate from Ohio.

[CTyankee]

162. I know and hemade a good call. Nowadays, anyhow, you have to start building a presidential

run early and that would get in the way of his been an effective Senator (I think that was his reasoning...also, he didn't want to be president).

[ehrnst]

165. +1000. (nt)

[Cha]

169. Thank you, ehrnst!

[qazplm135]

12. ya know

sometimes content is overwhelmed by the package it comes in.

If you wrap a million dollars in a shit covered box, I might pass it by and not open it to find out what's inside.

[Lordquinton]

39. We may never know

[Cha]

179. Know what?

[still_one]

5. He isn't going to be the Democratic nominee

[stopbush]

8. Correct. Too much talent in the existing field

and too many bad feelings about Sanders from 2016 among hardcore Dems.

[Cha]

13. Right, and he's desperate..

but what is he trying to do to the other candidates in the mean time?

Mahalo, still_one!

[NastyRiffraff]

26. No, he isn't

I say that every time a Berniac demands if we'll vote for Bernie if he's the nominee. He won't be the nominee. I don't know who will be as yet, but it won't be Bernie.

[Cha]

62. Worth saying at least twice, Riff!

[Gothmog]

99. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states

[Gothmog]

30. Agreed

sanders campaign appears to be falling apart

[Renew Deal]

103. With any luck he won't gain a single delegate

[Gothmog]

132. I would love to see sanders kept under 300 delegates

I was a delegate to the Philadelphia convention and saw how the process works. One key item is that under the rules, a candidate cannot be put into nomination without 300 delegates. https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020-Call-for-Convention-WITH-Attachments-2.26.19.pdf

Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President: The Permanent Chair shall receive nominations from the floor for the Democratic candidate for the Office of President of the United
States in the following manner:

a. Requests to nominate a presidential candidate shall be in writing and shall have affixed thereto the written approval of the proposed nominee and the name of the individuals who shall be recognized to make the nominating and seconding speeches on behalf of a presidential candidate and shall be delivered to the Convention Secretary at a location as specified by the Secretary no later than 6:00 p.m. of the day preceding the day designated for the commencement of presidential nominations.

b. Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Pledged and automatic delegates may sign the petition.

I signed the petition for Clinton in 2016 to put her into nomination but we have over 170 Clinton supporters in the Texas delegation.

If sanders is frozen out of enough states due to the 15% rule and remaining non-Biden delegates are split among several candidates, there is a chance that sanders may not reach 300 threshold

[Hortensis]

146. So candidates must have 300 delegates to be put into nomination.

Thanks for the good info, Gothmog. I've been wondering and missed this before.

What a disappointment it would be, though, for any hopeful delegates who get Locked out! Locked out! Locked out!

[Gothmog]

150. I signed Clinton's petition to put her name into nomination at the Philadelphia convention

I was a delegate to the Philadelphia convention and saw how the process works. One key item is that under the rules, a candidate cannot be put into nomination without 300 delegates. https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020-Call-for-Convention-WITH-Attachments-2.26.19.pdf

Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President: The Permanent Chair shall receive nominations from the floor for the Democratic candidate for the Office of President of the United
States in the following manner:

a. Requests to nominate a presidential candidate shall be in writing and shall have affixed thereto the written approval of the proposed nominee and the name of the individuals who shall be recognized to make the nominating and seconding speeches on behalf of a presidential candidate and shall be delivered to the Convention Secretary at a location as specified by the Secretary no later than 6:00 p.m. of the day preceding the day designated for the commencement of presidential nominations.

b. Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Pledged and automatic delegates may sign the petition.

I signed the petition for Clinton in 2016 to put her into nomination but we have over 170 Clinton supporters in the Texas delegation.

If sanders is frozen out of enough states due to the 15% rule and remaining non-Biden delegates are split among several candidates, there is a chance that sanders may not reach 300 threshold

[Hortensis]

153. What a good thing to have been part of. The goal now, of course,

is to avoid losing the GE by a splinter again, which makes that last possibility something to be hoped for.

[Gothmog]

154. I love that cartoon

[George II]

7. From that OP about the "Unity Pledge":

....Indivisible’s “unity pledge,” an effort to keep the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination contest from what Barack Obama warned might become “a circular firing squad.”

So who fired the first shot?

.....committing candidates to a positive campaign respecting their rivals’ sincerity....

Yep.


It’s significant that Sanders was the first to sign the pledge

Apparently he was also the first one to break the pledge.

(snip)

Perhaps Sanders’s leadership here will help inspire the rest of the field to sign on to the pledge....

Or catch them off guard.

[Me.]

9. Really...You Can't Make This Stuff Up

Reeks of desperation and won't endear him to Dems. We didn't it like when he did this sort of thing last time around and I don't think it will be appreciated now. And, by the way, isn't he a little busy hanging around with the squad and sending out those 'split your donation for them with me' emails?

Great catch on the unity pledge. Today it's Biden, the other day it was Harris(?)

[Cha]

90. Oh yeah, and as one

tweet said.. this isn't an off the cuff remark.. This is a planned strategy.

Biden or whomever is the nominee will have BS to thank for these ads by repubs trying to bite them. Hopefully enough people can see right through this and realize this is a Life or Death election for many, And the Planet!.. and there's no time for bullshit.

Hoaaloha!

[Vegas Roller]

10. BS is going back to his second of two tricks he has

When the first trick of railing against billionaires for massive giveaways to attract votes doesn't work, the second trick comes into play -- demonize the opponent so he cannot win the GE.

Putin doesn't care if Bernie wins or Trump wins as long as one of them does.

[Cha]

152. Pretty sure Putin wants

trump to won, though.

[ucrdem]

11. We know it's crap, but his true believers don't

I know this because I have a couple in my family. I think I'm going to avoid discussing politics with them this time . . .

[Cha]

29. Yes, it's best just to avoid

talking politics with certain family members and certain friends.

It's worked with me for awhile now.

Full Disclosure.. I have no family members who are the Idiot trump fans. Thank Goodness!

Mahalo, ucr!

[Rebl2]

14. I think

he believes it’s his turn at being the nominee. I fear he will go third party on us if he’s not.

[highplainsdem]

15. I hope he won't go third party.. But I agree Sanders and his most loyal supporters seem to have

felt it was his turn to be the Democratic nominee (never mind that he's not a Democrat otherwise).

[Cha]

159. he better Not.

[Chemisse]

35. I doubt he'll go third party if he just fizzles out in the Dem primary.

Even his ego couldn't be that huge.

[Gothmog]

133. Many states have bad loser rules that would prevent this

If sanders was going to start his own third party, he needed to start a while back. It takes a ton of work to get onto the ballot as a third party in many states.

[Chemisse]

142. That is good to know! n/t

[quakerboy]

38. Why?

What has he ever done that would justify such a fear?

He ran against Clinton, and had a much greater share of popular support than he currently has. He had a golden opportunity to run 3rd party for president if he had wanted. Instead he went out and stumped for Clinton.
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/stumping-for-hillary-clinton-in-phoenix-bernie-sanders-says-the-political-revolution-is-still-alive-8806509

And during this run, he has signed his name to this "I’ll support the ultimate Democratic nominee, whoever it is—period, No Monday morning quarterbacking. No third-party threats. Immediately after there’s a nominee, I’ll endorse.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-first-to-sign-pledge-to-rally-behind-whoever-wins-democratic-primary

So.. what reason is there to suspect he will do anything other than what he did before, and what he has pledged to do again?

[pnwmom]

61. What has he ever done? He refused to concede once it was mathematically impossible

for him to win the nomination by early May. He led his followers to the convention in July, still somehow convinced that their protests could cause the delegates to choose Bernie instead. Then he failed to campaign for Hillary all through July and August -- and he only did two campaign events in September. By the time he finally campaigned for her in October, it was too late. Many of his most fervent followers had lost interest. And why should they? He had demonstrated by his lack of interest in helping Hillary all summer that he didn't care.

[quakerboy]

71. He campaigned for Clinton

And he didn't take the opportunity to run as a third party.

You dont have to like him to acknowledge that he didn't run as a third party presidential candidate and that he is unlikely to do so this election either.

[pnwmom]

72. He deliberately delayed campaigning for Hillary. And in the meantime, he stood by while some of his

staff publicly endorsed Jill Stein.

I have no reason to trust that he will campaign hard for whoever our nominee is. And I'm sure it won't be he, because he already topped out last time. Few voters among the 4 million who preferred Hillary in the primaries are going to switch to him now over one of several other very well qualified candidates. He and his supporters are fooling themselves to think he has a good chance.

[quakerboy]

86. All of which skips right past acknowledging the basic fact

that he did not run as an independent candidate for president against Hillary, and that he will not run as an independent candidate against whoever the nominee is this time either.

I do think you are right about his chances. I'd rank them moderately low. There are just too many people holding grudges against him. Just like I believed 4 years ago that Hillary had a low chance of winning the GE in the face of the perverse effects of 30 continuous years of lying RW campaigning/advertising/propaganda/demonization directed specifically and personally against her, I believe Bernie has a low chance this time. Which is why I'm so glad we have other good candidates running

I anticipate that before too long, it will be Bernie (and his supporters) chance to prove what we always said. It ain't about the candidate, its about the policy and the message. Im optimistic we will prove out.

[MrsCoffee]

92. It took treason to beat Hillary.

The policy and the message were on point. She got millions more votes than her opponents.



By the way, Bernie has already filed to run as an Independent in 2024. Shows you how dedicated and committed he is to the Democratic Party.

[Cha]

93. Yes it did, MrsCoffee.. that's a

damn good straight up way to put it.

[silentEcho]

168. Sanders gets a pat on the back for not running third party after losing the Democratic primary?

[Cha]

176. Really.

[silentEcho]

177. Right? Lol

[Cha]

75. BS needs to consider that the Primary Voters may not want him..

Link to tweet

[quakerboy]

87. It would be somewhat shocking if he wasnt considering it

I wish he wasn't running this time. But I dont begrudge him taking the time to actually give voters their say. Nor do I feel he is terrible for not wanting to start speculating with a TV pundit about his own loss.

But he won't run as a 3rd party presidential candidate against our eventual nominee. Just like despite all the speculation, he made no move to do so last time.

[betsuni]

58. I'm nervous about this too.

He really believes the primary was rigged, that powerful forces are conspiring to stop him, that if only he takes his message directly to the people they will flock to the poles and vote for him because most Americans agree with him and people voted for Trump because of economic anxiety. The way he's claiming to be the originator of Medicare for All and a $15 hour minimum wage and more is ... not reality based.

[Cha]

74. And, little insistences like this..

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

76. He should stop listening to "some people."

Some people are wrong.

[Cha]

78. Right "Some people" don't have

his best interests in mind.

[sheshe2]

16. So much for the unity pledge.

I posted an OP about it the other day.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287204476

It sunk. Guess no one really cares.

A candidate must control their staff and supporters. If they can't? Then they are not Presidential material.

[Cha]

25. Yeah, the "1st one to sign the Unity Pledge" went

from breaking the Pledge Straight to the worst thing you could try to Smear a Democratic Candidate with.. saying "Biden sounds like trump".. the day after trump holds a Despicable Racist Rally!

Mahalo, she

[NYMinute]

17. Sanders should be excoriated for this

Such demonizing should have no place in the Democratic party.

Oh … I forgot … he is not a Democrat

[LakeArenal]

18. Oh great.

Now we have the Stable Genius and
the “Pure Genius”.

😳🤭

[ashredux]

20. Bernie is not your friend.....

he will throw a wrench into the machine if he feels like it will help HIM....HE IS NOT A DEMOCRAT

[oasis]

21. Bernie will be able to make a better comparison between the two

while he's sitting on the sidelines watching Biden debate Trump in the 2020 General Election.

[Scurrilous]

23. LOL

[Mr.Bill]

22. Yeah, because Trump is always saying

we need to keep the ACA and build on it.

[Gothmog]

24. I think that this is a bad move by sanders

The real democrats supporting Biden are not likely to flip to sanders in the real world. Too many real Democrats have good memories and will not forgive or forget

[True Blue American]

57. I am one of them.

A moderate Democrat I do not care for angry Leaders.

[MustLoveBeagles]

28. This was a bad move on Sander's part

[Cha]

73. Another bad move.. Mahalo, MustLoveBeagles!

Link to tweet

[Buzz cook]

31. Why start a new thread?

When you could have just bumped the old thread?

After all the only thing this thread does is point to another thread?

It seems odd to do that without adding new information or giving one's own hot take on the issue.

[Cha]

33. lol! Shocking who does Not like my OP..

Rofl

[Buzz cook]

53. The thjread is like yourself then?

I read the contents of posts, not who the author is.

[Cha]

56. What?

[mcar]

34. Have you been here for a while?

GD and Primaries always multiple threads on the same topic. It's who we are.

[Cha]

37. lol.. Mahalo, mcar!

The other "thread" didn't mention the "Disgusting Rally of trump's", though, did it.

And, as far as I know we're allowed to make OPs, we want to highlight. for more people to see, instead of it getting lost in a long thread.. Without asking anyone's permission!

[mcar]

105. That's my understanding too, Cha

As long as it's not in LBN.

[Chemisse]

36. What other thread?

Maybe that's why.

[George II]

42. That's what I was wondering.

[Buzz cook]

52. The thread the OP links to. nt

.

[Chemisse]

111. Oh I see.

I didn't notice that for some reason.

[TexasTowelie]

67. You caught my curiosity. I didn't see any questions from you in these thread pairs.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287153032
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287151956

or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128774968
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128774101

or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128775671
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128775582

or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128770277
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128770197

or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128767487
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128767384

or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128748818
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128748656

[Cha]

68. LOL!.. Seriously, where was

he then?!

Didn't see me complaining.

Gracias, TexasT!

[TexasTowelie]

69. Beware the dang search function on DU.

[Cha]

70. Search Engine..

Gracias!

[Buzz cook]

108. I didn't read those posts.

.And as you see I didn't post to them either.

I had just posted to the previous thread when I saw this one. That is why I asked.

iirc I have asked the same question in other threads but not recently. Go ahead and search my posts. If you're a completest I have also posted as Buzzcook as well as Buzz Cook.

[mcar]

32. Tone deaf, at the very least

[Lordquinton]

40. Sounds like what has been directed towards Sanders for years

Chickens coming home to roost, it seems.

[George II]

43. Hardly.

[Lordquinton]

127. You're right, Sanders got it much worse.

[Cha]

157. Bull.. BS brings it on himself.

He's only showing how desperate he is by trying to smear with trump. Same with di blasio.

Link to tweet

[nini]

166. LOL

yea.. he's quite the victim.

He's finally being vetted and he's a cranky old shit because of it.

He wants to destroy the Democratic party... so let's see now.. who would benefit from that the most? Trump/Putin/Satan????

[cwydro]

41. Wow. I won't dare say what I'm thinking about that.

But wow.

[betsuni]

45. How many 9/11s will Biden-Trump's plan murder us with again? I forget.

(just in case)

[Cha]

158. ".. the death toll of 42 9/11 Attacks.. "

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Wonder how long it took his his pea brain to come up with that?

[jg10003]

47. Totally misleading headline. Read the entire article before commenting

https://www.mediaite.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-biden-is-sounding-like-donald-trump-on-medicare-for-all/

“I am disappointed, I have to say, in Joe, who is a friend of mine, really distorting what Medicare for All is about,” Sanders told the NYT Wednesday,

Not after the rally.

The article later says;

On Tuesday, former Hillary Clinton senior adviser and current CNN analyst Jess McIntosh made an observation that was nearly identical to Sanders’ attack on Biden.

McIntosh told the hosts of New Day that Biden was coming “dangerously close to using Republican talking points when talking about Medicare for All.”

“There was a lot of ‘Medicare as you know it will go away, seniors will be left with nothing,’ that sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump,” she said,

So actually Bernie was making a point about Biden's position. Whether his criticism of Biden's position is valid is debatable. But this is not negative campaigning and is not deserving of the vitriol contained in some comments. Always go to the original source before commenting, don't rely of tweets.

[Cha]

50. No. Read my entire OP..

Bernie Sanders Says Biden 'Is Sounding Like Donald Trump' on Medicare for All

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=204945

[Princetonian]

60. "former Hillary Clinton senior advisor made an observation... nearly identical to Sanders' attack"

https://www.mediaite.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-biden-is-sounding-like-donald-trump-on-medicare-for-all/

On Tuesday, former Hillary Clinton senior adviser and current CNN analyst Jess McIntosh made an observation that was nearly identical to Sanders’ attack on Biden.

McIntosh told the hosts of New Day that Biden was coming “dangerously close to using Republican talking points when talking about Medicare for All.”

“There was a lot of ‘Medicare as you know it will go away, seniors will be left with nothing,’ that sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump,” she said.

Thank you for refreshing my memory of what intellectual honesty looks like. I happen to agree.

[Cha]

80. No, Biden never claimed, as Jess McIntosh suggested, that seniors would be left with nothing.

This is a lie. Biden has never insinuated Bernie's plan would leave seniors with nothing.

Biden did mention a hiatus period, but later clarified the remarks:

What Biden was saying, Bates said, was that Sanders' plan for a sweeping overhaul of the health care system would take much longer than Biden's own plan to be approved by Congress -- so, under Sanders, there would be a hiatus between the status quo and the possible future arrival of an improved system.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/18/politics/biden-sanders-medicare-for-all-fact-check/index.html

Drunken Irishman https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287205595

We actually do Appreciate Real Intellectual Honesty.

[Princetonian]

94. Splitting hairs. The difference between connotation and denotation...

From the article I quoted: "As Sanders himself has pointed out, Medicare for All would replace the current program with more comprehensive benefits, but as Biden and even supporters of the plan like Senator Kamala Harris have pointed out, would entail a significant transition."

It is the fear that during the haitus period there would be no safety net McIntosh is referring to. She clearly was not quoting Biden but giving her opinion of the connotation of his words. If you have a problem with how she characterized Biden's words, why don't you write to her at CNN?

[Cha]

96. NO, it's a FACT whether you

recognize it or not.

[Cha]

82. No, Biden never claimed, as Jess McIntosh suggested, that seniors would be left with nothing.

This is a lie. Biden has never insinuated Bernie's plan would leave seniors with nothing.

Biden did mention a hiatus period, but later clarified the remarks:

What Biden was saying, Bates said, was that Sanders' plan for a sweeping overhaul of the health care system would take much longer than Biden's own plan to be approved by Congress -- so, under Sanders, there would be a hiatus between the status quo and the possible future arrival of an improved system.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/18/politics/biden-sanders-medicare-for-all-fact-check/index.html

Drunken Irishman https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287205595

We actually do Appreciate Real Intellectual Honesty.

[KPN]

128. Yup, at a minimum, subjectively biased headline if not intentionally

misleading.

[dlk]

49. Lawrence Tribe Understands Bernie Quite Well

[melman]

54. Tom Watson is one of the worst trolls on twitter

A sleazy lowlife.

[Cha]

79. Sez melman who ALWAYS Tries to Kill the

Messenger if they don't like BS.

[betsuni]

81. Kill the Messenger auto-play!

[Cha]

83. LOL! Auto-play pointing it

out! lol

Only means Tom Watson is a true Blue Patriot

[betsuni]

84. As if supporting our Democratic presidential nominee in the last election is a BAD thing.

Surprised he isn't accused of being paid by David Brock.

[Cha]

85. Yeah, Definitely a Big Plus in Watson's

Column!

Maybe they're getting to that?! lol

And besides, Tom Watson isn't a Biden supporter so he can't be all bad.

[melman]

114. It's the truth

Most people can see what he is.

[Cha]

115. No it isn't, melman.

[melman]

116. Yeah it is, cha

And if you're going to post stuff from smear merchants, then I'm going to keep saying who they are.


It's just the way it is.

[Cha]

117. Not true.

[melman]

118. Yes it absolutely is

Confirmed and verified.

[Cha]

119. Tom Watson is a true blue Patriot..

one of the good guys.

[melman]

120. Nope

He's a sleazy smear merchant. It's a fact.

[Cha]

123. melman don't you get it?

Your bashing Tom Watson only means he must be a wonderful patriot.

[melman]

124. Why is that?

That's obviously meant as a personal insult but why don't you explain it further.

[Cha]

129. Tom Watson is a wonderful patriot.

[melman]

125. Explain this

If my "bashing" him means he's a wonderful patriot then what you're doing is calling me un-American.


Explain.

[Cha]

143. Tom Watson

[melman]

144. You do realize

this is what people like Trump and Sean Hannity do, right?

They say people that agree with them are patriotic and people that don't are not. That's what you did here.

[Cha]

145. Traitors like trump? Why bring him and

his doormats into it?

I'm talking about real Patriots like President Obama, VP Biden, John Lewis, Rep Ted Lieu, Buzz Aldrin, and Tom Watson.. to name a few.

I always use this because we are the ones who love our Country and are fighting for it.. not the traitors who bow to fucking putin and treat our allies like enemies.

[melman]

148. Why? Because you're doing what they do

They say people that agree with them are patriotic and people that don't agree with them are not.


And that's exactly what you did. Let's review...

You said my "bashing" Watson can only mean he's a great patriot. Just the fact that I don't like him must mean he's a patriot.


This is what you said.


That means anything I'm against is inherently patriotic.


Which must mean things that I'm for are the opposite of patriotic. It means that I am the opposite of patriotic.


That's calling me un-American. That's what you did. You called me un-American. You know that's what you did.

[Cha]

149. trump lies about Everything.

[melman]

130. You're going to explain this

I'll keep bumping until you do. I don't care if takes fucking months. You called me un-American and you're going to explain.

[Gothmog]

135. No that is merely your opinion

You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to claim that your opinions are facts. Facts are facts and your opinion about Tom Watson is merely an opinion.

[Cha]

136. Thank You, Goth! melman doesn't

like Tom Watson.. shocking. Tom Watson doesn't like BS.. not so shocking.

Lots of people do.. I'm with them

[Gothmog]

137. Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to their opinion

Facts are facts. There is a whole body of law on when opinions are admissible in court because normally only facts are admissible. Facts are admissible and normally opinions are not admissible except under certain circumstances.

[Cha]

138. Right.. opinions are subjective..

I think Tom Watson is great so that's what I care about.. not someone's opinion who doesn't like him.

The attempt to "kill the messenger" didn't work.

[betsuni]

139. I wonder why people who think Watson is a troll don't provide evidence

for their claims. Convince us that he is, in fact, a "sleazy lowlife." That's what I would do. But then, I don't consider anything I don't like to be fake news.

[Cha]

140. Ikr.. I haven't seen any.. I just

figured it was because Tom Watson tweets a lot of info about what BS is doing and he doesn't like it.

[Gothmog]

151. Evidence would inolve facts

There is a large difference between facts and opinions. Everyone is entitle to their opinion but such opinions without factual backup are not to be taken seriously

[TheFarseer]

155. When someone wrote for Forbes

I have questions right away. Not saying that alone makes you bad but I definitely have some questions,.

[Celerity]

88. +1

he tried a really dodgy hit job on Buttigieg, and Wonkette slapped him down

[Gothmog]

134. No Tom watson is not a troll

I enjoy his posts and find them to be very informative. Facts are good things

[LanternWaste]

163. I'd allege that as well...

It allows us more easily to digest that which is unpalatable to our biases.

[melman]

164. That's nice

[Hekate]

63. My gods, why?

Bernie, go home. Ralph Nader wants to play.

[NanceGreggs]

65. Bernie should be careful about comparisons.

Both Bernie and Trump rely on big rallies to support their contention that they're popular with voters.

Both Bernie and Trump refused to release their tax returns and lied about why. (i.e. "I'm under audit" and "My wife can't locate our returns." )

Both Bernie and Trump took their family members on expensive trips paid for by the taxpayers or their campaign contributors.

Both Bernie and Trump claim that the country is broken, and they alone can fix it.

Both Bernie and Trump became "members" of parties solely in order to run on their ticket.

If I were Bernie, I'd watch out for those easy comparisons.

[Gothmog]

98. Agreed

You point out some significant similarities

[Vegas Roller]

100. Both were helped by Putin as well nt

[Maru Kitteh]

77. The end of Bernie 2020 cannot come soon enough for WHOMEVER our nominee will be.

He cannot and will not secure the nomination. He can only serve to inflict damage, as he has done before.

[Paladin]

97. Amen. (nt)

[Amimnoch]

91. No to BS, yes to Biden.

First: The difference in the 2 proposed plans- There is no path to a super majority in the Senate for 2020. None. It's only in the "possible" category that we could etch out a 1-2 seat majority (and that is no given). BS's policy of MC for all will not get passed. If we do etch out a majority, and get the Presidency that enhancements to the ACA could actually happen through a bill that will very likely have stuff in it that many here won't be totally happy with, but will still be a move forward in the battle of health care for all.

Second: Just as an exercise in hypotheticals, let's say that we get a supermajority congress that actually would pass a Medicare for all bill, and get it to the presidents desk.. Does anyone think, for a second, that a president Biden would Veto it??? If you do, you are living in a dream land.

Third: Let's say the more realistic possibility scenario plays out, and we get a 1-2 seat majority in the Senate, maintain our house lead, and get the Presidency. Our House passes a bill that they can muster the vote on that enhances the ACA. It goes to the Senate where, to get it passed, some concessions are made that aren't as appealing, but it still reinforces the act, and makes healthcare more accessible and affordable. A president Biden will still definitely sign such a bill, but would a President Sanders? I have severe doubts that unless bills meet his standards and purity test, he wouldn't hesitate to veto them.. he has that image to maintain after all.

I do believe that any of our candidates other than BS will sign into law any hard-fought Democratic Party agenda items (even if they have some nose holding lines in them) that actually make it to the Presidents desk. This is my primary reason for anyone BUT Bernie or Bust.

Some of his supporters have asked in other threads why some of us will support Senator Warren, but not Bernie? Well, this is it. I also quite easily see a President Warren signing Democratic Party championed bills, even less than pure ones, that makes it to her desk. I don't see BS doing the same.

[SouthernProgressive]

95. This is....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287185511#post18

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=182318

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287185504#post81

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287192639#post29

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287201226#post17

[SidDithers]

122. LOL...

Sid

[Peacetrain]

101. Oh jeez... this is why Senator Sanders does not have a chance in hell

he cannot help himself..he is a crotchety character who hates, just hates parties.. he is the epitome of a loner.. Sanders heading up the Democratic party was never going to happen.. yes it happened with the Republicans..but Democrats are different.. Oh am I comparing Sen Sanders to Donald Trump.. well what do you know

[Renew Deal]

102. Didn't Bernie support a form of "Repeal and Replace"?

[MineralMan]

104. Yes, Senator Sanders, because Biden and Trump are just alike.

Didn't you say something similar about Hillary Clinton? We remember, you know.

[Cha]

156. Thank You, MineralMan

[Gothmog]

106. From my twitter feed

Link to tweet

[Applegate]

112. Oh, boy, another Sanders outrage thread.

[Cha]

113. Oh boy.. BS brings it on himself.

[Hortensis]

121. Don't you mean another Sanders outrage?

I'm outraged with every evidence that we could lose the nation to the Republicans again and terrified that it might be democracy's last hurrah.

That wasn't the first time the Republicans were able to use him to win, you know. Long ago the Democrats lost VT's governor's office to the Republican challenger when Sanders waged a completely hopeless (assuming his goal was to win), third-party wedge candidacy that focused heavily on undermining belief in the Democratic governor and party.

His excuse and apparent genuine belief, bizarre as that is, was that there's no significant difference between the parties so it didn't matter which won. He's held that belief for decades now, and repeated many variations of the same old thing in this campaign, so it's not something new come on with age. He's exactly what he's always been.

[Gothmog]

141. I really dislike Sirota

Link to tweet

[silentEcho]

147. WTF? Trump promised lots to the working and poor people. Who took him seriously?

He was running as a Republican who has been working from the start to dismantle ACA. What a stupid thing to say, as if it is relevant to Democrats.

[William769]

167. This is me trying not to get a post deleted.

[Gothmog]

172. It is great seeing you post again

I hope that all is well with you. I have missed your posts