I had to pull on the waders about VP Biden saying imagine if Pres Obama had been assassinated

[Peacetrain]

Seriously people and media types.. you have got to get over the obsession of picking apart everything VP Biden says because he is post 70.. and for the information of any of the confused in DU.. we as a online community.. were always scared to death that was a possibility and talked about it often.. and for those of us who went through those assassinations, it was possibly the worst time I have ever experienced politically.. the VP is trying to explain to people with an example of what we have gone through before..


Now Get a Grip People.


And please do not post back to me the bull sh*t about having to vet him.. your biases are showing

[pangaia]

1. I also went through that period and went to JFK's funeral.

I understand what Biden was trying to do.

Nevertheless, given the current insanity in the US government and a terribly high percentage of the population, publicly imagining Obama's assassination is a very, very dangerous thing to do.

[Vegas Roller]

4. It was not meant for you or those who were alive during MLK, JFK and RFK assassinations

It was for the students who were born later -- to give them an idea of what such a trauma would do to a nation.

It was as clear as day to the audience what Biden was trying to do and it was not nefarious and it was not a "gaffe."

[pangaia]

5. I understand that. I also know it was neither nefarious or a gaffe.

I did not use those terms nor did I intend to imply either.

My point is that, well, as I said... SOMEBODY unintended heard that.....
Perhaps there could have been a better example...

[Vegas Roller]

2. It was a HYPOTHETICAL statement

Spun as something bad by David Sirota's buddies in the media.

And supporters of some candidates and posting OPs about it over and over.

[Thekaspervote]

11. Agree! One doesn't even need to open the comment, to know who it is

It’s beginning to be The Who’s who of Biden bashing

They prefer to bash away at The front runner than say anything positive about their own candidate.

Hello..hello... not changing the hearts and minds of those who you oppose. It’s like throwing crap at somebody’s house, then walking up to the door and saying hi, please change your mind since I just threw a bunch of nasty stuff at you... really??!!

[Satch59]

3. Thank you...

I was only 10 when the MLK & RFK murders happened but it certainly was a prominent part of my childhood: it was my world view awakening and that’s what Biden was talking about: to a young audience. The reports that it was yet another “gaffe” is so ridiculous... Glad that some news outlets are showing and talking about the full context.

[loyalsister]

93. Young people know plenty

They have seen instances of people suddenly shooting up public places, including schools, out of nowhere.

Some have survived it themselves. They know plenty about grief that is part of our national consciousness. He had plenty of examples that do not refer to something that was a very real real for people who felt connections to the assasinations he mentioned. The coinciding fact that he would have become president opens up another can of worms as this foolish comment invites a fill in the blank answer about his potential as president.

It was a ridiculous unforced error and part of the calculous for voters is how many of these do we expect or want to defend.

[Voltaire2]

6. 'pick apart'? He plain old said it. It was stunningly awful.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

9. Don't forget about: Teh Sirota!

[Voltaire2]

10. SARANDON!!!!!

plus why are you reposting this?

ALLCAPSEZS

[Demsrule86]

12. So is every other thing Biden...does...I could numerous threads...but why bother suffice to say

you preach to the choir and it won't work.

[Thekaspervote]

13. Agree!! it is so tempting to remind them of the crappy things some of their chosen candidates

Have done.... cause they all have, but ya know, I’m not going to stoop to their level

[Princetonian]

19. Not according to this NH townhall attendee who was there. He slammed "false controversies"...

... which extends beyond media whores' pushing cherrypicked outrage clickbait into those who echo them here daily.

Link to Tweet by NH townhall attendee:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=251879

[Voltaire2]

21. My state is like 97% white people.

[Princetonian]

24. Mine is not. Joe will win easily here. Obama Mamas like me will vote for him in droves.

[Thekaspervote]

52. Hi Princetonian!! Luv the jif

Hey joe... put your foot on the gas and let’s go

[Princetonian]

61. Hey Thekaspervote!

[Demsrule86]

72. Mine is not either.

[Princetonian]

83. Your state should go for Joe too.

[treestar]

31. As bad as using segregationists to make a point?

It seems you have to be careful exactly what analogies you use? This is anti-intellectualism.

This is not a gaffe - this is people being scared to even think or imagine things to get to an understanding of an idea.

It's more frightening than getting a detail wrong. What do you think that Biden meant he wants Obama assassinated? You can't deal with any such suggestion? Good thing the Secret Service doesn't shy away from the threat.

Obama even hired Hillary after she did it, when she was going against him! I mean what she said was clearly had to have meant to say she could still win if only Obama were assassinated. But Obama is able to get what she meant. Being so educated and intellectual and all.

I hope you also prohibit Holocaust analogies. Trump hasn't opened an official concentration camp yet. Or has he? We can't compare it until it is exact, right?

[bigtree]

41. you don't get away with minimizing the open racism of the two senators Biden touted working with

...use them in your campaign for president and not get pushback.

Maybe not at DU, but in the real world people are going to object to Biden's suggestion that working with segregationists like James Eastland is an attribute...

James Eastland's rhetoric outlined in Rolling Stone:

...a Mississippi senator with a despicable legacy of racial hatred and incitement who was also a mentor to Biden in his early days in Washington. “I was in a caucus with James O. Eastland,” Biden told the assembled donors. “He never called me ‘boy,’ he always called me ‘son.’”

Eastland was a giant in the Senate and an avatar of the darkest racism of the Civil Rights-era South. He was a plantation owner who championed white supremacy in language that now shocks the conscience. During the Montgomery, Alabama, bus boycotts of the mid-1950s, Eastland appeared at a rally of the White Citizens Council to deliver remarks that stopped just short of a call for racial genocide. As memorialized by the historian Robert Caro, Eastland said:

"In every stage of the bus boycott we have been oppressed and degraded because of black, slimy, juicy, unbearably stinking (n-word(s) … African flesh-eaters. When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to abolish the Negro race, proper methods should be used. Among these are guns, bows and arrows, slingshots and knives… All whites are created equal with certain rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of dead (n-word(s)."

Biden got confronted because this was one of his first campaign season definitions of himself. He wanted to portray himself as able and willing to work with the likes of McConnell and the other bigots in the House republican leadership. It was an extreme example that should have been left on the political consultant shelf, and it came back to bite him hard.

Have we really come to the point where it's acceptable to praise racists who called for the extermination of blacks? It's not the first time racists have been propped up for political advantage, and Biden should have known better.


references:

NBCBLK
Joe Biden didn't just compromise with segregationists. He fought for their cause in schools, experts say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626

Joe Biden’s controversial comments about segregationists ...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/19/18690910/biden-fundraiser-controversy-segregationists-donors

Why Did Joe Biden Praise a Segregationist Southern Senator ...
2020 rivals slam the former vice president, who spoke fondly of the “civility” of his relationship with a Mississippi senator who once called to “abolish the Negro race”
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-did-biden-praise-racist-senator-booker-deblasio-850220/

Biden says he was wrong in comments about segregationists
https://www.detroitnews.com/.../07/06/biden-apologizes-working-segregationists/39659765

[BannonsLiver]

42. That shit again?

What’s the matter, Harris drop a couple more points overnight?

[bigtree]

44. each and every time I see someone suggest Kamala Harris was wrong for speaking out

...and falsely accuse her of raising a bogus issue in the debate, I respond.

I haven't posted one thread on this, just responses where the truth is being obscured by blaming Kamala Harris for speaking it.

[Demsrule86]

73. She was wrong...and she has yet to address her time as DA and AG...

not going away. She is dropping in the polls like a brick...and I for one do not as we have discussed before think she should be the Democratic nominee..sure I would work for her and vote for her but...The GOP will go after with a vengeance...

[Cha]

79. yeah, you do that. People have differences

of opinions on that debate "gotcha" and they don't all agree with yours.

[Cha]

67. lol

[treestar]

43. He wasn't minimizing it

he was using them as an example precisely because they were so bad.

[treestar]

47. I don't think he teamed up with them to oppose busing

and he was not the same as they were in any opposition he had. I think we all went over that at the time of Kamala's non helpful-to-her tough-guy poition. His point was the partisanship increase, which we all know.

[bigtree]

49. it's not uncommon for black individuals to be blamed as agitators or having ulterior motives

...for complaining about expressions and outgrowths of bigotry and racism.

I think Kamala clearly made her point, which was that it was wrong for Joe Biden to say these things, and it was wrong of Joe to team up with the segregationists to oppose busing.

from NBCBLK:

...political experts and education policy researchers say Biden, a supporter of civil rights in other arenas, did not simply compromise with segregationists — he also led the charge on an issue that kept black students away from the classrooms of white students. His legislative work against school integration advanced a more palatable version of the “separate but equal” doctrine and undermined the nation’s short-lived effort at educational equality, legislative and education history experts say.

“Biden, who I think has been good overall on civil rights, was a leader on anti-busing,” Rucker Johnson, author of the book “Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works,” said. “A leader on giving America the language to oppose it despite it being the most effective means of school integration at that time.”

In 1975, Biden was representing a state where one of the first major urban school desegregation plans had been ordered by a court. Many white parents in the Wilmington area were angry. In response, Biden sponsored not just the bill limiting courts’ power but also an amendment to an appropriations bill that barred the federal government from withholding funding from schools that remained effectively segregated.

The amendment went beyond the busing issue, affecting school systems that effectively separated students by race whether or not they used busing. Co-sponsors included segregationist Sens. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., and Strom Thurmond, R-S.C. The amendment passed the Senate on a 50-43 vote, including majorities of both Democrats and Republicans. (Biden was not alone among northern Democrats who supported it — in that group, 14 supported the amendment and 26 opposed it, according to the Congressional Quarterly.)


Sen. Joe Biden shakes hands with Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., at the Capitol on Oct. 8, 2002. In the 1970s, Helms supported some of Biden's legislation to limit school integration.Scott J. Ferrell / CQ-Roll Call via Getty Images file

When Biden rose to defend the amendment, he said that the “assignment of schools and/or classes because of a person's race ... is a counterproductive concept that is causing more harm to equal education than any benefit.”

Biden’s anti-integration efforts didn’t end in 1975. Two years later, he co-authored a bill that barred federal courts from ordering busing plans unless courts found evidence of discriminatory intent. That legislation failed.

A 1977 report on school desegregation by the Civil Rights Commission, a federal agency, described Biden’s activities as stymieing school integration.

read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626

[treestar]

50. He was not wrong

if you understand what he was clearly getting at.

[Thekaspervote]

53. +1000

[Princetonian]

63. ZING!

[mobeau69]

54. Thank you.

Last edited Sat Aug 24, 2019, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The pukes will have a field day with these kinds of mistakes, gaffes, or whatever you want to call them. It'll be the gift that keeps on giving. What a stupid thing to say!

[Princetonian]

64. Republicans will be too busy hiding from Democrats tearing apart Trump's insane dumbass tweets.

F*ck them! Republicans better be afraid of us!!

[mtnsnake]

7. Not only was it one of the absolute DUMBEST things any Democratic candidate has ever said,

but it was also one of the most inconsiderate things said involving the man, Barack Obama, who is responsible for Biden being the temporary front runner in this race. What a stupid thing to say about Obama.

The last thing we need in this gun-toting country is for the seeds of assassination to be planted in the minds of any of the many nutjobs out there.

[Demsrule86]

14. Really, I think Castro's words about the border were the dumbest things

a candidate has said... I consider that a way more serious gaff...one that could hurt us in the general not the faux outrage about Biden. Castro has my vote if he wins the primary which I consider very unlikely. Vote blue no matter who!


https://www.apnews.com/d33b9d373d0a4566821b72f886e8bc1a

[mtnsnake]

17. What exactly do any of Castro's words have to do with the subject of this thread?

[Demsrule86]

18. A gaffe is a gaffe and I posted the article...

where Castro called for the decriminalization of boarder crossings...and walking them across...
this will get us killed in the general...and is serious gaffe..could cost us the general...I consider it the definition of a gaffe...a serious blunder.

[treestar]

34. If Biden can be vetted at this level

so can the rest.

[Princetonian]

22. Stop already with the outrage. None of the attendees were upset. They understood Joe's point.

Link to NH townhall attendee's tweet about what Joe said: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=251879

[mtnsnake]

26. It's ridiculous for you to assume that none of the attendees were upset over Biden's dumb statement.

What on earth would you expect them to do while they were in attendance as guests? Get up and leave? Yell out "OMG, how could you say that?" I don't think so. Once they got into their cars and headed home, how do you know they weren't saying, "It was a nice speech by Biden, but I sure felt uncomfortable when he made that assassination remark about Obama." Unless you interviewed each of the attendees, you just don't know how they took Biden's comment. All we know is that Biden said what he said, and it was dumb.

[Princetonian]

29. In this day of pervasive social media, we'd know.

Last edited Sat Aug 24, 2019, 01:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Again: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=251879

I leave false controversies to Joe bashing media whores and their allies everywhere.

[Thekaspervote]

55. And as ridiculous of you to assume they were

[mtnsnake]

65. I didn't assume they were, nor did I state it.

Right from my post, "Unless you interviewed each of the attendees, you just don't know how they took Biden's comment. All we know is that Biden said what he said, and it was dumb."

See? It's right there in the direct quote of what I said that I didn't assume the attendees were upset, but nice try at putting your words into my mouth.

Good luck with trying to make light of Biden's idiotic comment about imagining what would happen if Obama was assassinated. It's sad that you are alright with something like that.

[Cha]

70. Good luck to you, mtnsnake.. with

your continuously insulting VP Biden.

[Cha]

82. It's "ridiculous" for you to "assume" what

you want them to think.

[treestar]

32. Castro gets less press for having less support

But I could take time to go through his collected works to see if I can find anything worse.

Maybe you should be careful on that.

[treestar]

33. Like it wasn't before Joe said this.

[Cha]

71. Oh mtnsnake.. Really? Such hyperbole. I think

you're getting too worked up.

The people in the audience weren't offended. Seems just to be the ever present Biden Detractors.

So excuse me if I don't take what you're saying seriously.

[aikoaiko]

8. All candidates have their words examined. Joe is gifted at gaffes.

Truly, it is his superpower.

[Demsrule86]

15. Winning the primary is his super power despite unfair and ridiculous attacks...

[aikoaiko]

16. Something he has never done, but tried.

[Demsrule86]

20. Stay tuned this is his year... And it will happen despite the desperate attacks.

And thank God for that because without Biden we lose the general.

[aikoaiko]

37. If Joe is our candidate he has my vote, but I think we can do better.

And I’ll argue against Joe for his protectionism of credit card companies over consumers, not legalizing weed, and forcing people to turn in their guns.

[emmaverybo]

39. If you aren't winning with the bashing at hand, change the subject. NT

[aikoaiko]

40. Okie dokie

[namahage]

27. Point to the primary he's won.

Because it’s easy to point to three (1984, 1988, 2008) he has NOT.

Having the best chance to win and being an overall strong candidate compared to Trump—which, despite my current first preference will make it a no-brainer to come on board once the primary is won—is by no means a guarantee and tends to breed complacency.

[treestar]

35. None of those 3 years matter now

[Autumn]

46. They say third times the charm. But his superpower hasn't kicked in yet. So...

[Princetonian]

78. My condolences on Steyer not making the cut.

[Autumn]

80. No condolences needed. Does it bother you that I support Steyer or am I that fascinating to you?

[Princetonian]

85. I am always noting who is casting subtle aspersions Joe's way.

[Autumn]

87. You really needn't start to worry until I begin to cast asparagus his way. nt

Noce to know I've made your watch list. Good times

[Princetonian]

23. No, it is Joe bashers who are gifted at pushing media whores' false controversies.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=252530

[Thekaspervote]

56. This!!

[NYMinute]

25. It is funny to watch some supporters of another candidate

jumping with joy; without realizing how foolish and desperate they look.

[Thekaspervote]

51. Every single candidate has there faults. Your gotcha moment still isn't changing anyone's minds

Or their votes

[Cha]

92. You're right, Thekaspervote.. it isn't

changing minds.. it says more about them than Joe Biden.

[mobeau69]

59. Reminds me of trump supporters making excuses for the dotard all the time.

[Cha]

69. All you have are personally Attacking Insults, mobeau.

[MustLoveBeagles]

90. That's a little harsh

[brush]

28. Joe needs to cut back on talking about the past. That seems to get him in trouble. Plus it makes...

it seem like his life and references are behind him, not a good thing for a candidate.

He should stick to current issues and thinks at least in the 21st century.

[Gothmog]

30. K&R

[Me.]

36. Once Again Biden Wades Into Unfortunate Territory

“US President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a new book.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html

[Princetonian]

58. Once Again Joe Is Pulled Into False Controversy

[Me.]

60. It May Be You 'have to swallow a little bit" On That

[Demsrule86]

74. Not at all...and he will be the nominee...all this faux outrage will not

make a difference.

[Me.]

75. We'll See

[Demsrule86]

77. And if he isn't Trump wins, in my opinion as he hold onto the

the blue wall states.

[Me.]

88. Absolute Nonsense

and thinking so is defeatist

[LongtimeAZDem]

95. No, it's realistic.

[Me.]

96. Of Course It Isn't

Remember in '08 when HRC was a shoo-in. That same play, but this time with Biden may come about. We don't know what we don't know and there are months to go. I believe he has been taking this for granted, like when he refused to do debate prep. If he's not careful, all things being eventually equal with another candidate, gaffes will make the difference. He and his team know he has this problem, what is he doing about it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

97. This isn't '08.

[Me.]

98. No & It Isn't The Future

He'll have the nom if/when he has the nom, until then everyone best be on their better game and that includes him. The one thing that currently looms in the future, and I'm not even sure of that, is the traitor in the WH, who plays dirty. Our nom best be ready.

[Cha]

91. You'll like this, Dems..

Black Democratic voters in PA who admit they didn't vote in 2016 say they'll vote in 2020, for Biden

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287253331

[Hekate]

57. I prayed for Obama and his family's safety nearly every single day of his campaign & presidency...

I lived through the assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, and all the rest. It leaves a mark on you. I was terrified Obama was going to be ripped from us. Joe knows; he lived it too.

For the love of God, people, get over yourselves. If you were not there, just shut up and learn.

Thank you, Peacetrain.

[Eliot Rosewater]

62. As usual I am seeing well meaning supporters of different candidates chime in and

while I wish we would ALL stop this bickering, I also notice the same folks who NEVER compliment Democrats but are ALWAYS around when someone is critiquing one of them so they can BASH our people.

[NoMoreRepugs]

66. Stop with the lifelong purity test BULLSHIT.

The electron microscope inspection of every statement made to expand the possible nuance to some gotcha moment isn't going to bring together a coalition of voters to change the course of our country.

Sorry, but we've got too many frickin' daffodils around here sometimes - buck the fuck up people, the fight of our lives is coming.

[elocs]

68. Why does Biden feel the need to constantly remind us that he was Obama's VP

and has a connection to him? We know that already--he needs to tell us what he is about and what he is going to do right now.

If Obama had been assassinated, then Biden would have become president--that at least is clear.

He is currently the odds on favorite even though the horses have not even left the starting gate, but that makes him the target now. Better that he deals with this right now and not a year from now if he wins the nomination. He still has time to at least try and think before he speaks and get the small facts straight, something we would be hyper critical of if done by a Republican.
But it seems that nobody has thinner skins and is more defensive of their chosen candidate than Biden supporters. He is ahead in the polls so of course he is a target now because if Warren were in front the other candidates and their supporters would be going after her.

[Demsrule86]

81. It is why he is the best candidate ...no other candidate has job experience...why

shouldn't he use it? However, I feel like you question was misplaced because he doesn't always do this...as you suggested.

[Princetonian]

84. Stay classy, elocs.

[tirebiter]

89. 97% favorability is a starter

What is hard to understand is why anyone would want any daylight between Obama and themselves.

[treestar]

94. Because it is a huge advantage that he has

lol at other candidates' supporters wanting him to stop it.

[samplegirl]

76. Exactly!

Given the chance they will jump at the chance to ruin democratic candidates.

[Kurt V.]

86. Vetting is good. not bad. not a controversy.