Mayor Pete is discussing his Christian faith on Morning Joe

[mia]

Last edited Thu Sep 5, 2019, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)

He's such an inspiration for me. I'm looking forward to watching this again.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mayor-pete-discusses-the-importance-of-faith-in-his-life-68235845970

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Not to me.

Religion has no place in government and public affairs.

It's entirely a private matter of belief.

Establishment Clause of the First Amendment Pete.

[MrsCoffee]

3. Thank you. I was about to go on a rant.

Keep it out of my government.

[thesquanderer]

14. See if you feel the same after watching the clip the OP is actually talking about.

Please see my post #12.

[stopbush]

8. Agreed. I find his religion-front-and-center approach extremely off-putting.

Knocks him down quite a few notches in the pecking order of the candidates.

[thesquanderer]

13. See if you feel the same after watching the clip the OP is actually talking about.

Please see my post #12.

[Runningdawg]

45. It's the ONE thing I don't like about him

[dsc]

9. yea letting that reverend king inspire us was a huge error

and don't get me started on those abolitionists

[stopbush]

10. I missed Dr King running for public office. When did that happen?

[MrsCoffee]

21. +1

[dsc]

50. So I assume you have problems with Jesse Jackson

Emmanuel Cleaver to name two who did..

[stopbush]

52. In a primary? Yes. I would not be inclined to vote for an overtly religious candidate.

I’m not impressed nor encouraged by candidates who are overtly religious. In fact, I find it to be disappointing that some people need the crutch of religion to “inspire” them to behave like a normal caring person.

In a general election, I vote for the person with a D next to their name.

[LanternWaste]

11. Is the Establishment Clause a denial or an allowance on the personal level?

If the latter, it then becomes wholly irrelevant.

But I get it... "One imaginary construct has no place in another wholly imaginary construct."

The things we tell ourselves. No hypocrisy, indeed.

[thesquanderer]

12. I agree with the sentiment, but did you see the actual clip?

Many people are posting with similar reactions as yours, but none have indicated that they actually saw what the OP is referencing.

It's at 2:40 at https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mayor-pete-discusses-the-importance-of-faith-in-his-life-68235845970

I am as strong on separation of C&S as anyone, but I have been impressed by how I've seen Pete address his religious side.

In this case, Joe keeps trying to get him to talk about his religious beliefs, even trying to pin him down as to whether he has as much Christian faith as Obama did, and Pete keeps trying to say, yes his faith is important to him, but that's personal individual stuff so instead let's talk about how these beliefs relate to policy, like taking care of the poor.

He even talks about also dealing with doubt and ambiguity. Unless you are only willing to vote for an atheist, I think Pete's approach to this subject is as good as it gets. He is no more inclined to intertwine actual religion and government than any of the other Dem candidates, or anymore than Obama did, BUT he is willing to use the practical tenets of his faith to show a compatibility between religion and policy that can potentially help the "godless democratic party" actually appeal to the majority of this country who do feel a sense of religious faith.

Watch that clip and see if you find his religious side any more off putting than the included quote from Obama.

[mia]

16. Thank you for posting the link to this morning's program

and for adding your insight. I'll update the OP with your link.

[MrsCoffee]

22. I found it off putting from Obama so I'm sure I wouldn't find it anymore charming from Pete.

I'm serious when I say want true separation of church and state.

I don't care what fantasties people entertain in private. Keep it out of my government. Giving just an inch is how we got to where we are today.

[thesquanderer]

34. If you listened to how he answered the question, it seemed to me...

...that he was actually distancing himself from how Obama's statement came across.

Obama may have had to go a bit overboard on his Christianity because of the accusations of his being Muslim, and that's a shame. But Pete, while emphasizing the importance of religion to him as an individual, seemed really hesitant to publicly commit to his adherence to Christian dogma as strongly as Obama did, Joe had to batter him with it and drag it out of him. I actually kind of admired that. I think Pete's hesitance to specifically answer that question indicates that he is as keenly aware as you are that actual religious belief should be kept as far out of the realm of government as possible, even while tying Christian ethics (like helping the poor) to good public policy.

I think he's trying to strike a balance where his faith can be a plus for religious voters, without stepping on the separation of church and state that most liberals hold dear, which could conceivably be a smart campaign strategy. But you have to hear his own words to watch him do that dance, and not assume that he is not for total C&S separation just because you hear that he talks about God and religion.

[MrsCoffee]

37. That's how it seemed to you. Quit shoving it down my throat.

[thesquanderer]

39. I thought we were having a discussion.

Though if you are not going to actually listen to what he said, then I guess discussion about it is pointless.

That said, this is a discussion board, and if you no longer want to engage on a topic, simply don't respond. If you respond, people may answer.

[MrsCoffee]

43. Look,

I'm a woman who has suffered at the hands of religious influence on public policy and our government. Suffering that can never be made right. I have some pretty strong feelings about separation of church and state. You can all call that knee jerk if you want, by I supposedly have a constitutional right to said separation. Talking about "christian" morals, god, resurrection and fucking scripture blah blah does nothing for me but make me sick.

I watched that video. It is nothing like you describe. He never should have even let the conversation go in that direction or for that long. It was like a freaking sermon. There is gonna be a reckoning... yeah Ok.

Just like you can respond to whoever you want spamming as many times as you want, I can DU how I want.

Thanks.

[thesquanderer]

47. re: "There is gonna be a reckoning"

If you listened to the context in which he used that word, he wasn't talking about a reckoning in the sense of judgment from God, but rather a reckoning between people of faith and their current political party of choice, as Christians come to see which party actually embraces the ideals that Jesus wanted his followers to live up to.

I believe in complete separation of C&S, but I do not find that offensive, and I think it may be smart politics.

But while you may disagree, thanks for watching the clip and offering your perspective. Of course, you can DU however you want, and I would never try to shut anyone up. I only reacted to what appeared to be your attempt to shut ME up (i.e. stop spamming, shoving down your throat). I appreciate the constructive engagement, though.

[ChiTownDenny]

42. For Christ's sake!

(double entendre intended)

[CTyankee]

40. Thank you. That was my takeaway from the very informative segment on Morning Joe today.

If anything, I think it bolstered up the Democratic Party in the eyes of religious Americans who do not yet know that Trump has flim flammed them on the subject of religion. I have a good friend who is an Episcopalian and very religious. She is also very pro-choice, pro-gay rights and a good Democrat all around. I don't believe in her personal faith but so what? She is also one of the most intelligent people I know, just as Pete is extremely smart.

I think we should leave this alone.

[stopbush]

49. I saw the clip, and I still don't like his religious bullshit.

He says he comes from “a faith tradition that teaches the the world is out to destroy the divine.”

Is that tradition not absolute bullshit on a reality based level?

Childish, unpresidential thinking, IMHO.

[SallyHemmings]

51. I was surprised by the conversation.

However, when Joe was pressing a point, he managed to respectfully push back.

Mayor Pete seemed to be comfortable with his faith without being preachy.

That was my take away.

[spinbaby]

2. He is so smart

He comes across as so smart and on top of the issues. Joe Biden on Colbert last night came across as an affable grandpa.

[emmaverybo]

53. Let them discuss geopolitics and foreign policy. We will see who is smart and up on it. Pete has

a broad intellect and innovative mind. He does not have Biden’s presidential qualifications. Personally, I am voting for a president not a leading intellectual. Otherwise I’d want Noam Chomsky.

[SamKnause]

4. I find nothing inspiring about it.

"Separation of Church and State"

[thesquanderer]

18. He never argues against separation of C&S. Instead...

...he smartly (IMO) talks about the compatibility between public policy and faith-based tenets like the importance of helping the poor.

Please also see my post #12.

[MrsCoffee]

23. Yeah, let's let religion guide public policy.

This is fucking insane.

Works out great when you got one guy saying what you want to hear. But we all know how these religions really influence policy.

No thanks.

[thesquanderer]

29. It sounds to me like you did not actually watch the clip?

Because your comment appears to be a non-sequitur to anything he actually said.

[LAS14]

48. We all know that there are many ways religion influences policy. Many of our best policies...

... can be traced back to the Judaeo-Christian influence on our culture. I'm not including other religions because they haven't had a lot of influence over our history. Not because they couldn't be sources of good influence. This one size fits all denigration of religion is just not intelligent.

[democratisphere]

5. Focusing on his personal private beliefs, positions and issues will not get Mayor Pete

elected to a higher office. Uninspired.

[thesquanderer]

19. He does not focus on his private beliefs, but talks about how his Christianity is...

...congruent with the kind of public policy he believes in, like helping immigrants and the poor.

As for positions and issues that you mention, well, that's what everyone talks about. I'm not sure what the private/public distinction is there.

Please also see my post #12.

[emmaverybo]

54. He is trying. The Frederick Douglass plan then didn't get any air-time?

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. Running on religion from the left is a losing strategy...

...and rightfully so.

[dalton99a]

7. +1. Huge distraction to go down the path of I Am A Real Christian And You Are Not

My Jesus Is Better Than Your Jesus
My Church Is Better Than Your Church
etc.

[thesquanderer]

15. But that is the OPPOSITE of what he is saying.

Please also see my post #12.

[thesquanderer]

17. I think Pete may have it right here.

Please see my post #12.

[MrsCoffee]

24. You are just spamming at this point.

[thesquanderer]

31. I reply to to the individual posts I want to respond to, because...

...I assume that the people I want to reply to are unlikely to see my answer unless I specifically reply to their comment. At least that's how DU works for me. Unless someone specifically replies to a post of mine, I am unlikely to see their response, since I often don't go unprompted back to threads I've already read, in part because there's no easy way that I've seen to just see the new posts. Maybe that speaks to my own unfamiliarity with how to best use DU, maybe I'm missing something.

[snowybirdie]

20. Joe kept pushing

him to accept the language of evangelicals in describing his faith. Pete pushed back and used his own. Good for him. However, that discussion should not be a part of a political interaction. Found myself yelling at the tv way too early today!

[stopbush]

26. And there in a nutshell is the problem with making Christianity

part of your political persona. It allows, nay, demands one “use their own” language in describing what their faith means to them, and by extension their policies. As we’re talking about make believe here, one may as well ask how the Harry Potter books guide one’s life and influence one’s politics. And because Christianity can mean whatever one wants it to mean - there are, after all, more than 30,000 Christian sects on the planet - saying you are a Christian ends up meaning nothing at all, at least from an empirical perspective. At best, you end up being viewed as part of the problem that features the well-documented traits of the typical Christian: self importance, unfounded prejudice directed at others, self righteousness, intolerance and a world view prone to taking fantasy as reality.

[crazytown]

30. Pete belongs to a church that celebrates same sex marriage.

There aren't many of those.

[stopbush]

38. Indeed, because the Bible says it's a sin.

Pete goes to a church that is guided in part by Enlightenment sensibilities. Why not go the next step, cast off the shackles of religion and go humanist?

[CTyankee]

44. In my non-religious way, I am going to say that it is far better that we have Democratic

leaders that can link religion to Enlightenment ideas, so that we can educate the electorate who see this issue in black/white terms. We CAN talk in religious terms and also espouse "enlightenment sensibilities" (great phrase, btw). That is important. We can't let the pukes beat us over the head about religion any more. Pete is taking this on beautifully, IMO. Both he and Elizabeth are the best at espousing the Enlightenment in their campaign rhetoric.

[crazytown]

27. Yes he did,

knowing full well Pete is a Lutheran, in a church that accepts and welcomes LGBTQ marriage, not a Southern Baptist, nor mega church dupe.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. He's an Episcopalian, but both churches accept LGBTQ marriage.

[crazytown]

33. My bad

:red face: Very different traditions even if they have ended up is similar places.

[crazytown]

25. The one (big) thing Pete said was the will be a reckoning,

not in the next world, but today, from those who desert their RW lying churches, and go where they will.

[kacekwl]

28. Good Grief, the only part of religion his or any religion he wants in government

is the part where you help the least among you and stop making policy that does EXACTLY that. Would you feel better if he said he was the best Christian and the did not follow the core principles love one another like our current president ?

[crazytown]

35. Pete is brilliant.

He refers to religion to explain what his values are. Then again, he is using hard words, to educate those whose identity is tied more to religion than any thing else. Climate change denial is a 'sin'. For young people still running around like chickens trying to avoid sin, this is a knowing and shrewd strategy by the Good Mayor.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. I'm not religious, I'm a strong believer in the separation of church and state,

and I have no problem at all with what Buttigieg says about religion, or in particular what he said in this interview. He clearly doesn't think religion belongs in government. There is as much knee-jerking by people who don't like religion as there is by people who think the government should be Christian.

[thesquanderer]

46. Bingo. (n/t)

[Desert Dem]

41. I understand Pete's strategy.

It’s the 1976 Jimmy Carter strategy, and it got Carter elected, after Watergate. The problem is, as it was by 1980, a sugar high.

It led to one term and Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority (My God’s greater than your God) BS we have had to deal with ever since, Republicans’ perversion of the Social Gospel.