Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumprimary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The way he said it, they are totally on their own, even as taxpayers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)Tone deaf
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,324 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
unblock
(51,974 posts)i fail to see why any candidate would want to proclaim this during a campaign as it's a losing electoral strategy.
but as a matter of public policy, we need to strongly encourage people to migrate out of areas that will be underwater and/or subject to repeatedly worse and worse environmental damage in the next few decades.
someone circulated a video projection of what happens if all the ice melts, and florida is pretty much entirely under water. it makes vastly more sense to spend money helping people in such areas relocate rather than rebuild in an area that's basically doomed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,585 posts)him and his statements with the glasses they wear). Ironically, that's exactly why some folks are Bernie diehards; he's genuine.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)So many times in flood zones and I agree this has to stop.
If I was flooded out once that would be enough for me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,585 posts)while now to do exactly what zdandets is saying. They have also been working with State and local governments for decades to better identify and prohibit or establish suitable standards for construction within floodplain zones. I know from personal from having lived seven years on the lower Colorado River in the 1980s during which. 200 year flood occurred. This is not something Bernie has just pulled out of the air.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is something, I would not call it wise. Maybe offering people a carrot that leads them to the right decision longterm is wiser. But that would not be Bernie, he wants it now, like banning fracking immediately or placing heavy taxes on billionaires and large companies on Day One.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,585 posts)FEMA has a buy-out program already. They also work with States and local governments to implement it and prudent floodplain management in flood prone zones where and whenever possible.
Also, did you view the video?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,206 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)I am pretty sure Sanders is talking about constantly rebuilding in areas that are subject to hurricanes or floods where no infrastructure is built to mitigate damage from future storms.
Don't people in these areas already get a huge government handouts in the form of subsidized property insurance, since if that had to buy insurance on the private market it would be extremely expensive?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mcar
(42,206 posts)Seriously? Check out flood insurance rates sometimes. And remember that many people without means live in flood zones.
There is a big community of fisher folk in my county and they are not wealthy. Some families have been here for generations. Their flood insurance can be very high.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)Or NFIP. It's basically allows for people who build homes in exposed areas to obtain insurance at below-market rates for the risk involved in insuring their property.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mcar
(42,206 posts)I'm also aware of how much people pay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What does a house go for on the outer banks?
I know what oceanfront property on barrier islands goes for in Delaware.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
woodsprite
(11,853 posts)From 300k to 500k. Those are not the McMansion prices. That would be darned close to our DE house in size (3000 soft) and value (320k).
We love the Outer Banks and vacation there yearly for 3 wks at a pop, but would not buy down there unless it was just a spot to park our camper. Many of the houses are built to be disposable.
We did buy a lot down in my in-laws development on the Gulf near Rotonda, FL. Hope to build a vacation home/rental on it before we retire. It was one of the highest lots in the neighborhood and according to the latest govt tables, doesnt require flood insurance or a stem wall to be built. We plan on both though. Construction in that development is an attempt to build it to last - reinforced concrete block filled with rebar and more concrete. Roofs are rated for 150-160mph winds, windows are wind and impact resistant with built in hurricane shutters. Electric lines are buried for maximum protection. Houses down there are in the same price range. Lots however were a bit less expensive.
I dont understand why you wouldnt batten down the hatches as best you could, then haul ass to safety off the island. One guy has a restaurant down in Ocracoke. He said their house flooded, restaurant flooded, 3 cars and a golf cart gone and/or destroyed, has $5k worth of food in the restaurant freezer and no electricity. He would have been better off if he secured what he could, taken the cars and evacuated.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)It's happening in Iowa too.
https://www.wowt.com/content/news/Pacific-Junction-residents-debate-whether-to-rebuild-or-move-on-509038091.html
We want to make smart decisions, and not just rebuild and not have protections, Parr said.
Residents at Wednesday nights meeting in Glenwood, IA were told the local levee breach at Pony Creek will be repaired by next week. Two other breaches impacting the town will take longer to fill as the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers makes its way north from Hamburg, Iowa.
Thats going to be a big problem. Its going to be a big problem, Parr said.
Its everyone thats west of I-29 right now and south in the county thats at risk, Hurst said.
It's a risk a number of life-long Pacific Junction residents may not be willing to take a never-ending fear that if they re-build, this could all happen again if those levees arent secure.
Ill be honest. Im undecided. My husband is probably a little less undecided. He wants to probably get rid of the house, Parr said.
The county is working on providing temporary housing around Pacific Junction and Glenwood. There was also talk of a future residential buyout from Mills County.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dsc
(52,129 posts)there should be a mandated buy out. There is a town in my county that was flooded at least twice in the last few years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)But have heard of houses being rebuilt 6 and 7 times. You are in a flood zone zoning ordinances should stop the rebuilding
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Bernie won't pay for.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Bernie says he's got all the vacation homes he needs at the moment, but check back later
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,748 posts)locations that are built close to the tide surge areas.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,748 posts)allow homes in areas that are constantly being flooded. Like the ones on the fucking beaches.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Autumn (Reply #18)
crazytown This message was self-deleted by its author.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)Unless we are willing to spend billions shoring up coastal communities who will be under water in the next decade or two, millions of people will be relocating to higher ground.
This study expects it to cost 400 Billion to shore up some of our coastal communities. 725 Million dollars just for NOLA.
https://www.climatecosts2040.org/rankings
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dawg day
(7,947 posts)We have an awful lot of "cultural capital" in cities near the ocean.
I live in a landlocked state, but I think these towns are worth saving.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)"Flood-inundation maps for Lake Champlain in Vermont and in northern Clinton County, New York"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You are talking about almost all major California areas, Seattle, Boston, New York City, Washington DC (it sits on reclaimed swampland, with global warming the Potonac backs up), all the rest of the major eastcoast cities, lots of Georgia, almost all of Florida.
Maybe Bernie could give a more hopeful message. It is not condescension to give people a more hopeful message along with the warning that choices that we are now making are harmful.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Maybe the folks down there should consider moving to land locked Vermont.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)OH NO! Vermont is bounded on the east by the Connecticut River and two thirds of Vermont, including Burlington, is bounded on the west by Lake Champlain. In fact, some have homes on an island in the MIDDLE of Lake Champlain! Make them move to North Dakota.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)being first in the nation and that stuff.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)There are two juicy Senate seats on offer in North Dakota. Time for a trail of beers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)Being an Iowan, I know people who live here now who had to flee NOLA permanently. They ended up here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)make it endure 20 ft seas?
Even Jakarta, Indonesia realizes this and is starting the plan to relocate the city.
Like killing all fracking, Bernie has the right idea, but it is too extreme to get elected.
Be a moderate, get elected and then ramp up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and Senator Sanders is leading the way by writing off South Carolina in February.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,748 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,748 posts)to get worse. Like it or not with climate change and the rising seas the ocean is coming.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Like votes for felons on Death Row, Sanders is proposing pure political poison. This is exactly why he can not be the Party's candidate. He might be willing to write off SC, FL and TX for the foreseeable future - I am not.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,748 posts)Why do you care if he commits political suicide? The campaign would be popping. Doing the right thing is often costly to politicians. What's better? To ignore it and keep fingers crossed that it goes away or don't give a fuck and protect yourself politically and do nothing because we older people like Bernie won't be around when it gets bad?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)getting that man who is worse on Climate Change, and everything else, out of the Oval Office. Without that step, the rest is whistling at the wind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Bernie is looking at a punitive phase, that does not work in retail politics. Good politicians lead reluctant people to a better place, often against their will. We know that some existing cities may have to relocate, but how we break that news to people determines whether we get to lead that change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
roody
(10,849 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
greatauntoftriplets
(175,694 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)About being rebuilt 6 and 7 times were in Houston.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,942 posts)that isn't immune from natural disasters.
This is not only bad policy, but cruel
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,206 posts)Earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,942 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,206 posts)Believe me, I get the challenge. If things go on as they are, I'll have gulf front property.
Every part of the country is subject to natural disasters. We need to do what we can to keep people safe and help in the aftermath. We could all be relocated to the midwest and get blown away by a twister.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,942 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,206 posts)Forget all the history.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zambero
(8,954 posts)are screwed, in other words?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
One way or another. It's gonna happen and people are gonna get screwed.
Time to wake up to that reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(93,843 posts)I discuss this in my Transportation and Land Use class at NYU. The problem is that everyone assumes these are summer homes for the 1%. Here in NYC, we have lots of public housing in the Rockaways, which was heavily flooded during Sandy? Do we force them to move? What apartments do they move in to?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,585 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You can't talk abou reality, you must talk about some high minded idea that may or may not be achievable.
The reality is that with Bernie's position, loads of heavily populated blue cities will have to be abandoned. Why not encourage people to change with a more optimistic solution proposal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)Because you're writing off an awful lot of voters who may at one time or another get hit by hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and massive flooding. Didn't Vermont suffer massive damage after Hurricane Sandy? Didn't FEMA rescue homeowners and businesses?
I can understand the underlying logic of forcing people to cease and desist from building on flood plains, ocean beachfront property, etc., etc. But this hardline tactic will not win hearts and minds. Just the reverse.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,585 posts)or watch the video, listen to everything he says and put that sentence in that context.
In the face of rising sea levels associated with global warming, it would be pretty foolish to take any other position.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)River used to flood often, after the 1937 flood they built seawalls
The same thing was done where I live now a city on 5 rivers we have 5 dams that are kept in good repair. Only a few outlying areas flood, but few live in those areas
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...in Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Connecticut from the Canadian border down to Long Island Sound get flooded.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Guy sounds more like a Republican every day
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Tell us more, Bernie!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)The underlying point is that tens of millions of Americans live in coastal areas that are flooded from time to time.
Even around us there are areas routinely flooded in the spring when the snow melts up in the mountains.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)who is in the path of a Natural Disaster.
Would Islands who have been in the paths of previous hurricanes be disqualified from FEMA in BS' world?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Basically, he would throw away all of our coastline, here sonething like 50+% of Americans live and/or work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nolabear
(41,915 posts)I happen to be on the Gulf Coast right now. Theres massive military, shipbuilding for that military, NASA, and a huge percentage of the country's seafood industry. So thats done then? Good to know. (And that excludes an incredible amount of other invaluable assets).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Wow! I didn't even consider that. That really IS a foolhardy and short-sighted plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,713 posts)I wish it was true here.
I was just in Miami. We tooled around looking for a beach. Never saw water. Its crazy that the rich can purloin a coast all to themselves. No one else can see it.
I know the beach itself can be accessed but not seen. Crazy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)When will we see a policy to ignore victims of wild fires?
When will we see a policy to ignore victims of earthquakes?
When will we see a policy to ignore victims of blizzards?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)People can do what they want though. Very smart.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mopinko
(69,804 posts)that's my beef w bernie. always the irresistible, simple answer to a complex problem.
those "solutions" are always, always wrong.
this is thoughtless and just cruel.
he isnt wrong on the substance. it needs to change. but people's homes are just not something that you take a bulldozer to.
nuance, bernie. try to find some nuance.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)This doesn't just affect the coast. If you live 2-3 hours away from the coast and have a river in your town, better pack it up because chances are your place may flood when the next hurricane dumps too much water and the rivers can't drain fast enough. Eastern NC flooded catastrophically weeks after Hurricane Matthew because of that.
Yeah, no way in hell that he's getting my vote in the primary and no Democratic senator from a state affected by natural disasters is going to back such a policy. Hell, if he's the nominee and this is his policy, kiss most electoral gains in NC goodbye.
Biden was already going to clean his clock in the southern primaries, but now I doubt that he'll even be eligible for delegates with policies like this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...in the spring when the snow melts in upper New England and runs into the river.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden