"Oklahoma Warren?"

[question everything]

On ABC This week Rahm Emanuel had this comment:

EMANUEL: There's two person -- the two person -- there's two Elizabeth Warrens. The Elizabeth Warren about Oklahoma is unbelievably powerful. The Elizabeth Warren about the policy is like we're studying for our midterm exam every day. And I think if she can do more Oklahoma as part of what the -- what her ideas are and why, what motivates her for that, then she's a powerful person.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-19-secretary-state-mike-pompeo-dnc/story?id=65464007

What does he mean?

[elleng]

1. Good question, what does he mean?

[CurtEastPoint]

2. folksy v. pedantic?

[LAS14]

3. I think I know what he means, but I think she has melded...

... those two sides of herself perfectly. I wonder if he saw the climate town hall.

Oklahoma is her folksy, of the people persona. She grew up poor in Oklahoma. But I see her explaining her policies without abandoning that aspect.

[blm]

6. That's what I see and hear.

She and Katie Porter have turned it into their superpower. Heh

[BlueMTexpat]

34. +1! eom

[highplainsdem]

4. I think he meant what was meant by a discussion on Morning Joe about a week ago:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287259959

[andym]

5. He means the Oklahoma gal charm will win over many who don't care about policy

Personality is a big factor in the Presidential election GWB "won" against Gore in part because he was perceived as more charming. The more Elizabeth Warren turns on the folksy charm the better she will do. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

[OKNancy]

7. This irritates me. She is not an Oklahoman

She lived here until she was 16. She grew up in a university town, nowhere near a "country" atmosphere. How do I know. I was born 5 months before her in Norman and lived less than two miles from her when we were growing up. She lived in a fairly nice neighborhood. The thing about Norman back then was there were no really rich people and no really poor either. High society in Norman then were the university professors. Your public school teacher was more than likely married to one of those professors. There were no private schools.

Edit to add: This is a minor annoyance. I'm not voting for her because I don't think she can beat Trump and I think MedicareforAll and forgiving student debt are two sure losers.

[lame54]

11. She can beat Trump...

Easily

[Drunken Irishman]

12. Not yet according to polls.

Maybe down the line but currently? No. Her average lead over Trump according to RCP is just 4.1 points. Not easily beating him.

[Bradshaw3]

13. You're posting wrong info among other things

Warren was born in Oklahoma City, then they lived in Norman (university town) until she was 11, then her family moved back to OKC. She graduated from Northwest Classen High School (in OKC). So I don't where you get this "grew up in a university town, and only lived there till she was 16" - or where you get the claim about she was nowhere near a country atmosphere - at no point has she or her campaign ever claimed that. Her "poor period" came whe her father lost his job in OKC whe she was 12, not while in Norman as you claim. She then started waitressing at 13 to help make ends meet. I lived about eight blocks from her in OKC and it was NOT a nice neighborhood.

One can only assume you are trying to make her look like a fraud, which she is not. I urge you to read the info about her below and correct your post.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Early_life,_education,_and_family

[OKNancy]

16. Yes I'm aware

of her biography. And if you lived in OKC at that time you know that Northwest Classen was the top high school in OKC.
My point is, she is not a country girl. Neither Norman or OKC is "country".

[Bradshaw3]

25. You are making more false claims

I wrote, NO ONE including her campaign has claimed any such thing as her being a country girl. I lived in the same area she did at the time and it was NOT, repeat, a nice area, regaredless of what NW Classen was. You are just deflecing because you can't defend your falsehoods.

If you bothered to read the answers to your posts you will see how wrong you are, and not only do you not admit it, you double down or ignore facts disputing the falsehoods you posted. I made a post about other Oklahomans who are in the state hall of fame who wouldn't qualify as being from the state using your criteria. Of course, you are only applying it to her becase of partisan politics.

Fortunately not all the Biden supporters are like you. As another respondent said, you should give it a rest. An apology and correction would be more apt, but I don't think you are capable.

[Bradshaw3]

14. She is very much an Oklahoman

Born there and lived there until she graduated at age 18 from high school. As one myself, it irritates me that you make this false claim. Again I ask, why?

[OKNancy]

17. I believe she graduated at 16

Why? I'm and Oklahoman as well and for her or mostly her surrogates to claim she is a country girl is false. I don't want her to get the nomination because I think she will lose. The reasons have been mentioned here and in the media many times.

If you read my original post I did say it was a minor irritation.

[Bradshaw3]

27. Please post those claims the campaign supposedly has made

You made many false claims about her, so here is your chance to back up one.

[Celerity]

19. She was 17 when she left, she turned 17 just after she graduated from Northwest Classen High School

in Oklahoma City.

I have no idea why that poster is trying to claim Warren is not an Oklahoman.

[Turin_C3PO]

15. If she lived there until 16,

she can call herself an Oklahoman. My brother still considers himself a New Mexican and he moved out 20 years ago when he was 18.

[Bradshaw3]

21. Thank you

If she isn't considered one then neither are famous Oklahomans like Mickey Mantle (in the offseason early in his career lived at home, then after getting married and having kids made his permanent home in Dallas) or Woody Guthrie (born and grew up in Okemah but family when he was 14 moved and he graduated from Pampa Tx high school). Of course the state claims both as native sons and both are in the state hall of fame.

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Thanks for your post!

I was born, raised and educated through undergrad studies in Montana, left there when I was 20 and returned when I was 26, then left for good when I was 36.

I've lived abroad for some 27 years since those days and Maryland has been my US voting residence since 1982.

Yet I STILL consider myself a Montanan first of all. Proudly!

[Celerity]

18. she's more Oklahoma than Biden is PA 'Scranton Joe'. She was 17 when she left Oklahoma City.

Biden was 10 when his family left PA and permanently moved to Delaware.

Warren was born in Oklahoma City, then her family later moved to Norman, but they returned to Oklahoma City when she was 11. She lived there from 11 to the age of 17, and that is where she attended Northwest Classen High School.

I find it very strange for you to say that this background doesn't make her an 'Oklahoman', as if there is some sort of 'real Oklahoma litmus test' to make or break one's Oklahoma authenticity.

You also left out the Oklahoma City part, plus tried to somehow associate her with some sort of 'middle class educational-based aristocracy' in Norman, which is ludicrous. He father was a carpet salesman (both her parents where from rural OK) for Montgomery Ward who walked into their Oklahoma City house one day in November 1961 and had a heart attack, which cost him his job (he ended up being a janitor, building custodian, etc), and put the family on the road to financial hardship.

her house in Norman (which again, she left when she was 11)

[Bradshaw3]

24. Boy you have a way ...

... of slamming the door shut on posters who mislead. The house pic was a great touch. I lived in Norman for many years and there defintely were areas that were lower middle class, as that pic shows.

As I wrote, we lived not far from where she did (just north of what became Sheperd Mall) in OKC when I was in grade school and parts of it were middle class and parts were lower middle class. When we lived there my father was an out-of-work teacher who took a job as a butcher, which should tell you about the neighborhood. As soon as he got another teaching job we were gone.

[blm]

33. OKNancy wouldn't deliberately mislead. She's a good DUer.

She must have read a hit piece designed to anger Oklahoma voters.

[Bradshaw3]

37. She did mislead

Even after being presented with facts that contradicted her claims. That is deliberate.

[blm]

39. She'll research and get that what she believed was incorrect.

These types of stories were rampant here at DU when GOP ops were targeting Kerry with damning image stories that were designed to read as if they were from left POV. Turned out to be a RW operation.

From my 18 years here I can easily stand up and say OKNancy is an honest person and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[Bradshaw3]

40. She has already had a chance to do that and didn't

The responses to her earlier posts showed how she was wrong and she doubled down in later posts. She tried to portray Warren as being fraudulent with her personal story and the poster's "claims" to back up that narrative (which is a RW talking point) were proven wrong.

[blm]

41. It was late and she likely went to bed.

Give it some time. Heck, I’ve left threads to go to sleep or go to work and 3 days later discovered I was a coward for not responding. Heh....primaries are fun times, here at DU.

My motto is: yes, I can be tough - tough, but, fair.

[demmiblue]

38. Naw... it totally isn't surprising. n/t

[5starlib]

43. Joe Biden didn't move that far away from Scanton though

She moved to Massachusetts. She needs to embrace who she is. She is a Massachusetts senator. She is a senator of the most liberal state in the country. No need to hide.

[blm]

45. So she is not someone who experienced financial struggles in Oklahoma?

And she shouldn’t share those experiences that tie her to the struggles of working families? She should only speak to being a senator from Massachusetts?

Pretty certain you wouldn’t advise Biden to stress being the longest serving senator in Delaware the most protective state for banking industry, would you?

I know I wouldn’t. I like his whole story. I like Warren’s whole story. Why do you want to mischaracterize the embrace of her whole story as a ‘need to hide’ being a Massachusetts senator?

Disingenuous advice is never welcome.

[Celerity]

46. She did not move to Massachusetts until much later. 1995

was the year she permanently moved to the state. She was 46. Perhaps do some cursory research next time.

Also, long before that, after 2 years of college at GWU, she got married and moved to Texas, which is right next to Oklahoma.

Just for trivia sake, Scranton PA, to the Delaware state line, and Scranton to the Massachusetts state line are very similar in distance, especially as the crow flies.


Finally, you used a RW talking point exact phrase.

She is a senator of the most liberal state in the country.

That is literally a common line in anti-Warren adverts and on RW outlets. They loooove to Massachusetts bash (same with Pelosi and the Bay Area in my state, California), love to lib bash.

Funny thing is though, other than Deval Patrick, Massachusetts has had only Rethug governors for longer than my entire life, all the way back to the 1990 election, 5 years before I was even born. Warren beat a Rethug to win her Senate seat as well. Boston was also the scene of some of the most violent racist anti-bussing riots, back in the 1970's. None of those things sound like 'the most liberal state in the country.'

[demmiblue]

22. Some of y'all need to give it a rest. n/t

[TwilightZone]

29. If she spent her entire childhood there...

she can reasonably be called an Oklahoman, particularly if she self-identifies as such.

People grow up, leave a state, and yet still identify it as their state of origin all the time.

Your assertion is rather odd.

[JaneQPublic]

8. Rahm bashed Howard Dean's 50-state strategy.

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:21 AM - Edit history (1)

He's an old-school DLC Dem.

So, we care what he thinks... why?

[question everything]

9. Why kill the messenger?

Some of the comments, above, understand that.

There is nothing wrong in being "folksy."

I have stated here many times that we elect a president with whom we can connect. I used to say personable until spouse pointed to the current occupant. So I changed it to visceral.

Never mind what we think about Reagan, he was considered "folksy" and people loved him. Many still do.

We, Democrats, certainly this Democrat, are proud to be logical, thinking of our plans and ready to present them step by step like, yes, teachers. Thus we had thinking Dukakis, and Gore, and Kerry and Hillary.

Obama is not much folksy but many did connect with him. Yes, him being black was one of them. Why hold it against him?

And, of course, Bill Clinton is MISTER PERSONABLE.

But with Trump it is visceral. His supporters like the way he talks, the way he says what first comes to - whatever the space between his ears - his vulgarity, talking like "the man in the street."

I first heard Warren years ago in a documentary about all the credit cards that people collect, and the debt. And I admired her concise and clear presentation. But for the electorate at large, perhaps she does need to be more folksy like... well, Joe Biden.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Most of the headlines are picking up on the schoolmarm angle

Fuck Rahm Emanuel, aka one guy who will always be on the outside of a Warren Administration.

[Celerity]

20. It is a coordinated attempt to try and paint Warren as a cold, aloof, elite Bostonian technocrat

with a hectoring, shrill streak. The same smear campaign that tries to paint her as a lifelong Rethug (up until 1996) and Reagan supporter, which is utter tosh.

See here for a dismantling of that last part: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287251645#post293

[demmiblue]

23. I don't care what Rahm Emanuel thinks. At all. n/t

Nice try, btw.

[Desert Dem]

30. So true.

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Swedish Donald

"Swedish" Donald got $413 million and draft deferral from his father's real estate empire, in large part by lying about their German background to Holocaust survivors in Brooklyn and Queens.

Compared to that massive silver spoon in his mouth, Warren grew up practically riding shotgun through The Grapes of Wrath.

[blm]

31. First thing I think of now is, Trumps claimed to be Swedish

For $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[DrFunkenstein]

36. He even lied about it in The Art of the Deal

For the sole purpose of continuing to profit off Jewish tenants who might leave if they discovered that, after surviving the Holocaust, they were unknowingly renting from a German.

--

Friedrich Trump’s son, Fred, came of age between the World Wars, a period marked by resentment of and even discrimination toward Germans in the United States.

More important, he was marketing his properties to the growing Jewish middle class filling up the old farmsteads of central Brooklyn and Queens.

During his presidential campaign, Fred’s son Donald has occasionally run roughshod over Jewish sensibilities, notably with a post on Twitter that featured a six-pointed star and a pile of cash. But for many years, the Trumps went out of their way to avoid disquieting their Jewish friends and customers by burying their German identity.

They told anyone who asked that they were Swedish.

“He had thought, ‘Gee whiz, I’m not going to be able to sell these homes if there are all these Jewish people,’” said Donald J. Trump’s cousin John Walter, the Trump family historian, who has worked closely with Fred and Donald.

And once they started portraying themselves as Swedish, they could not stop.

“After the war, he’s still Swedish,” Mr. Walter said. “It was just going, going, going.”

Even Mr. Trump, not known to be shy about embellishing facts, questioned the need. According to Mr. Walter, when Mr. Trump was working on his best seller “The Art of the Deal” in the mid-1980s, he asked his father, “Do I have to do this Swedish thing?”

In the book, published in 1987, he wrote that his father’s story was “classic Horatio Alger,” and that his grandfather “came here from Sweden as a child.”

Mr. Trump has been called to account for the discrepancy in the past, sometimes admitting it, sometimes not. In an interview in his Trump Tower office, he at first claimed not to know that his father pretended to be Swedish, saying: “Is that true? I don’t know.” He later acknowledged that the two of them would occasionally discuss the concealment of their heritage, explaining that his father “didn’t want to put any pressure” on his Jewish friends.

“It was a very tough time,” he said.

“We have a war, we are fighting a war with Germany,” said Mr. Trump, who was born a year after World War II ended.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/22/us/politics/for-donald-trumps-family-an-immigrants-tale-with-2-beginnings.html

[Desert Dem]

28. He and Carville

should start an act together on how to sabotage Dems.

[blm]

32. Remember Ohio

[ecstatic]

42. Just another guy who gets annoyed when women say too much is my guess.

I think EW is striking the right balance between folksy/relatable and nerd. Next!

[Blue_true]

44. That when she talks about policy, she is too "professorial".

He wants the down home candidate that easily relates to struggling working people in their language.