M4A didn't do well last night. Someone on GMA this morning called it "the revenge of the moderates."

[highplainsdem]

Biden, Klobuchar and Buttigieg did much better arguing against M4A than Delaney did in the second debate.

And polls have already been showing that the public option is more popular than M4A, at least when it's explained to those polled. (If it's left vague enough that people might confuse M4A with the public option, misreading M4A as "Medicare for all who want it," M4A looks deceptively popular.)

[CurtEastPoint]

1. M4A?

[Mike 03]

2. Medicare for All (M4A) nt

[CTyankee]

3. shorthand for Medicare for All.

[samnsara]

5. medicare for all.. took me a bit too! I thought they were talking about that gang...

...that is somewhere... thats supposed to scare me.... but that I"m unaware of.

[NYMinute]

14. M4A is worse than MS13 hahahahaha

[PatSeg]

4. Yes, I thought the explanations

for a public option instead of Medicare for all were more persuasive than I've heard up to this point. The point is to get healthcare to everyone, affordable healthcare and free when needed. With a good public option, the private insurance industry will probably die a natural death.

[wysimdnwyg]

7. This is the answer right here

"With a good public option, the private insurance industry will probably die a natural death."

Someone (please forgive me, as I am mixing up in my head who it was) said this last night. Make a good PO, and people will choose to go to that instead of private insurance. I suspect some companies will even choose to switch to that and cover most (all?) of the premiums for their employees, as that will be cheaper for everyone involved.

[PatSeg]

22. Yes, someone said that

but I can't remember either. Maybe Amy Klobuchar? Employer provided health insurance was never a great idea and that will probably be phased out as well. That money could go to salaries and which would generate more tax revenue to help pay for the public option.

[Blue_true]

21. The private insurance industry would die a slow death,

OR, it will shift to servicing and offering additions to MFA like it has done Medicare. MFA will need servicers, the organizations that build up and rate Doctor and provider networks, I can promise you that the insurance companies will be first in line for that business (it is lucrative and almost no risk for them).

[wasupaloopa]

6. It is an idea that people want. If you mislable the idea you don't change what people want.

If you tell people they have have a choice or they will be forced into a plan they will always go for the choice. public option gives people choices.

Keep what you have or get covered through a government plan.

M4A is a vague idea at best. If it is single payer with elimination of insurance companies, it will not be the most popular.

Again as in all these arguments, it is idealists vs pragmatists.

If the ACA is struck down in court we will be back at square one. At that point we go back to millions of uninsured while we design another plan.

That is provided we take over the government. If not all bets are off and we are n pre ACA days

[Hortensis]

8. Public option's way more popular IF it's referred to by

a different name, such as "universal coverage," according to polls. The term "public option" does significantly worse than the winning marketing label of MfA.

HOWEVER, when people are told MfA would eliminate private insurance, support vanishes.

I don't know if the popularity of the ACA should be attributed to appreciation for the program in place or to "moderates," (whether that's moderate liberals or bipartisan conservative and liberal moderates, or what). Or to neither.

Because the universalist, "one hole for all pegs" solutions that appeal strongly to a few, like Warren and Sanders, actually repel far more. No need to try to hang it on "moderates."

Most people across the political spectrum just plain value their freedom of choice and regard with suspicion attempts to limit their rights. We've all grown up in a nation of which pluralism is a proud and sacred founding principle. It's our culture, an important part of what America is.

Plus, of course, what Warren said is not correct; many are satisfied with their private insurance and want to be able to keep it.

That she doesn't respect the wishes of at least 170 million Americans with workplace insurance and guard the rights of all is now the worst thing I know about her. However, she is having her chance to change minds.

[emmaverybo]

26. I am glad some one else here gets that Warren is ignoring the fact that many do like their plans,

not just their doctors. To say she has never met a person who likes her private insurance is to admit that she purposely blanks out millions of folks, honestly has not informed herself of the full picture, or refuses to look at facts she could easily access.

Why would people who have a great plan, one with affordable premiums, or in many cases who pay no premiums because employer or retirement benefits do, want to change? And probably pay much more in income tax for the privilege? Does she realize group plans also offer very low cost drugs?

Bernie saying your coverage is over if you no longer have your job states an untruth for those who
are vested and receive lifetime medical benefits. For instance, while employed, I paid 60 dollars a month for a plan that provided 100 percent coverage, no deductibles, and very low drug costs (no prescription over 15.00, many under two dollars). In retirement, vested at 50, I pay no premium for a PPO supplemental to Medicare, and my retirement pays the Medicare fee back to my pension.

I am not special. I never made a high salary. I am with a large retirement benefits program for state workers. How many others like me? Lots.

Get out there Bernie and Elizabeth and listen. You need to make the case to ALL Americans.

[Hortensis]

27. Yes. Mine was the other side of the coin. I had a huge

deductible, 70% coinsurance, copays, etc. For most of my last 15 or so working years the workplace policy I paid a large premium for every month never paid out because I never had an illness big enough to punch through the deductible.

Going to the ACA marketplace and choosing my own from one of those companies was wonderful, chose a protective 90% coinsurance because I'm getting older, deductible of two or three hundred instead of thousand, and I could once again afford to go to the doctor. Imagine, annual physicals and their standard labs now defined as already paid for by the premiums.

You certainly made the case that some still have coverage they'll fight to hold onto. As for keeping doctors, though, why wouldn't almost everyone? I believe that's mostly a phony boogie. Aside from long-distance consults, providers see patients from their geographic area, and presumably MfA wouldn't be requiring anyone to move. We have a chronic shortage of them also, and MfA would have to pay enough for the ones we have to be able to continue. The list of docs available to me through my ACA insurer was very, very long and all the names I knew of were on it.

Btw, I misstated. I believe it's "single payer" that polls really badly, not "public option," don't know about that one.

[emmaverybo]

28. I am glad you did better with Obamacare. I hope we will build on it and offer much

lower premiums. For those who choose to keep private insurance, we need legislation so that
catastrophic and emergency care out of system is covered.

I do understand that I am fortunate, as other state and federal system workers have been, to access good, affordable coverage while employed and in retirement. It is simply a political reality that M4All will be a hard sell to those who like their plans.

But it is a moral reality that everyone should have good quality healthcare at affordable rates or subsidized according to need.

[Hortensis]

30. Yup. If we want good healthcare to be a right,

all we have to do is vote ourselves that right. Then we get to paying for it.

Government of, by and for the people.

[JI7]

9. i don't think support or non support has anything to do with being moderate

[Cha]

10. Good. By all means explain clearly

what the difference is.

Why is it even called M4a?

Thanks,

[crazytown]

11. And yet Warren moved up again

[NYMinute]

13. Those differences are not statistically significant nt

[crazytown]

15. Heresy!

it's Morning Consult!

[NYMinute]

16. They really are not .. even if they came from Einstein. nt

[crazytown]

17. MoE +/- 2.4%

Respondents considering Warren before debate = 44.4%
Respondents considering Warren after debate = 48.0%
Change: +8.1%

[NYMinute]

20. Please double check the math

48.0-44.4 = 3.6 ... it is still within MOE (+/- 2.4) = 4.8

3.6 is smaller than 4.8 correct?

[crazytown]

23. QED

https://www.amazon.com/Every-Dairy-Queen-Fucking-Explodes/dp/1621052214

[NYMinute]

24. I don't get it

How does that link relevant to math and statistics?

[crazytown]

25. If you know, you know

Ghouta 2013 was within the margin of error. If you know, you know.

[still_one]

36. Are you personal,ly attacking a fellow DUer with those links through anaology?

[crazytown]

37. Is Drake a DU'er?

Doubt it. My idea of fun has little to do with counting FFR notches on a lamppost. YYMV.

[still_one]

38. Do you know what an analogy is?

[crazytown]

39. Well.

It's an English world. I can look it up in the dictionary.

My idea of fun has little to do with counting FFR notches on a lamppost. YYMV.

[still_one]

40. What is FFR and YYMV? Doesn't matter, I don't care.

[crazytown]

41. YYMV

is an OH version of Your Milage May Vary

FFR = DU's flag for review system.

The point of the link, is that I am not interested in scoring points in a meta game to see who can be lured into five hides before moving on. Not an accusation, my 2c.

[still_one]

42. Thank-you. I am not always good with alphabet soup by the way

[crazytown]

43. The reference to Ghouta 2013

is the UN report on the deaths of 1300 caused by chemical agents in the Ghouta area of Damascus.
https://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/%7B65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-CF6E4FF96FF9%7D/s_2013_553.pdf

The reference to the margin of error, is the posters belief that the sarin gas attack could been carried out by the rebels.

[still_one]

44. thanks

[Piiolo]

53. Did she move up in polls conducted after yesterday?

Do tell

[NYMinute]

12. M4A is political suicide. nt

[UniteFightBack]

19. M4A might be the best thing and actually make the most sense but yes it's political suicide at this

point in time.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Why do people like giving these assholes their money?

[emmaverybo]

29. And you are the moral police to tell them they can't? It is going to take more educating of the

pubic, consensus building, lots more groundwork, and more transparency about financing before M4All will no longer be the express path to political suicide, despite people making bad choices. Choice is the issue.

And what people are used to who do have private insurance vs. what people get under single payer
will be a real difference.

[wellst0nev0ter]

31. Obamacare was political suicide, right?

Do you regret it?

[emmaverybo]

32. Obama was already the President. Let Warren or Sanders get in first.

[wellst0nev0ter]

33. Let me ask again, since it didn't get through to you last time

Do you regret Obamacare, even though it cost Democrats both the House and the Senate?

[emmaverybo]

34. What a tone. Haughty. But I will play nice. I am not knowledgeable enough to agree that Obamacare

in and of itself cost House and Senate. It was expensive in political capital. No policy is worth risking four more years of Trump. The entire world can not afford that. There are other options to
affordable healthcare and ultimately universal than M4All. So the question is moot.

Getting to universal healthcare need not put this election on the line.

Make that your last time, please.

[wellst0nev0ter]

35. Your option will leave 10 mllion people uninsured

But I'm glad you're not regretful about Obamacare. This time, let's insure everyone.

[emmaverybo]

52. We can subsidize them for far less than M4All will cost AND not risk political suicide. We will have

to as M4All is not a slam dunk. Furthermore, its proponents admit it will take some years to roll out. What are folks supposed to do in the meantime? Does Warren have a plan to protect Medicare
and Medicaid in the meantime?

[Gothmog]

45. Speaker Pelosi-There's no need to reinvent health care -- just improve Obamacare

I agree with Speaker Pelosi https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/nancy-pelosi-no-need-to-reinvent-health-care-improve-obamacare.html?__source=sharebar|twitter&par=sharebar

Democrats should focus on making improvements to Obamacare instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with “Medicare for All,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday.

“God bless” 2020 Democratic presidential candidates putting forth Medicare for All proposals, Pelosi said in an interview with “Mad Money” host Jim Cramer. “But know what that entails.”

Pelosi’s thoughts on how to improve the nation’s health-care laws appear to align with those of former Vice President Joe Biden, who in his 2020 presidential bid is calling for building on provisions of Obamacare, formally known as the Affordable Care Act.

“I believe the path to ‘health care for all’ is a path following the lead of the Affordable Care Act,” Pelosi told Cramer. “Let’s use our energy to have health care for all Americans, and that involves over 150 million families that have it through the private sector.”

[Gothmog]

46. NBC/WSJ poll shows Biden's healthcare stance (optional Medicare buy-in) much more popular

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

47. Obamacare Has Made People Healthier

Getting rid of Obamacare is a bad move https://politicalwire.com/2019/09/30/obamacare-has-made-people-healthier/

Washington Post: “Poor people in Michigan with asthma and diabetes were admitted to the hospital less often after they joined Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. More than 25,000 Ohio smokers got help through the state’s Medicaid expansion that led them to quit. And around the country, patients with advanced kidney disease who went on dialysis were more likely to be alive a year later if they lived in a Medicaid-expansion state.”

“Such findings are part of an emerging mosaic of evidence that, nearly a decade after it became one of the most polarizing health-care laws in U.S. history, the ACA is making some Americans healthier — and less likely to die.”

[Gothmog]

48. 73% of people favor [the] public option that would keep private insurance in place

Link to tweet

[Cha]

49. Mahalo, Goth! 73%!!

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

50. Hey Cha

[ritapria]

51. The Canadians pulled off Single Payer in 1967

And they love it ….. If the Canadian Conservative Party ran on a platform of repealing Single Payer they would not only lose , they would be run out of the country on a rail …….If Canadians become seriously ill . they are not forced to file for bankruptcy...They leave hospital without a bill ….Canadians are not forced to stay with a job they hate because their employer provides them good health insurance …..Obama is in favor of MFA … 8 months ago , Mayor Pete favored MFA …. …...Public Option does not work ……..Private Insurers will price out the high risk people they don't want to insure in the first place …...The tax payers will foot the bill ….We need the younger , healthy and wealthy people fully in to make this thing work ...That means MFA ….Forget the politics , the ideological divide and take up Math ………….

[Gothmog]

54. Support for a public option has been increasing, and for Medicare-for-All has been decreasing

Link to tweet