Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWarren told CBS reporter last night she won't be releasing her own health care plan. MFA is it.
Tweet from Caitlin Huey-Burns, political reporter for CBS:
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LincolnRossiter
(560 posts)in on an unpopular proposal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LudwigPastorius
(9,139 posts)Or, maybe you have to take a initial position beyond what you will settle for because all legislation is a compromise.
Obamacare started out with a public option that was shot down by the GOP and Joe Lieberman.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LincolnRossiter
(560 posts)would choose private and/or supplemental plans the option to do so.
Maybe she is staking out a more controversial position in hopes of getting a compromise later, but that's an iffy proposition in electoral politics. May as well just state your actual position and work to get it implemented.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)10 million people will still be without insurance under his plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LincolnRossiter
(560 posts)about 6-10 million people. I imagine that will have to be reworked to get support from the progressive wing of the party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)...if she can't convince people to vote for her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cilla4progress
(24,729 posts)thanks. Agreed.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,563 posts)I will not vote for Warren in a primary...only a general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,190 posts)the top 1 to 2% richest people will do it, because that won't be enough. We need more specifics.
This isn't a jab at those proposing M4A, but they really need to be specific on the costs and where it will come from
I think many people don't understand the costs associated with Medicare Part A, B, D, supplemental plans, advantage plans etc. It isn't free.
To give you an idea, just for Part A, if people were to buy into Part A today, because they didn't pay Medicare Taxes, the costs would be:
"Most people don't pay a monthly premium for Part A (sometimes called "premium-free Part A". If you buy Part A, you'll pay up to $437 each month. If you paid Medicare taxes for less than 30 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $437. If you paid Medicare taxes for 30-39 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $240."
Here is a breakdown of other associated costs:
https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/medicare-costs-at-a-glance
The bottom line is how will it be paid for needs to be detailed, adding a whole influx of people who haven't paid Medicare Taxes throughout their lives, has to be paid somehow
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)M4A dramatically overhauls what Medicare is and does. Of course M4A will be paid for by an increase in taxes, but that will be more than offset by a reduction in overall healthcare costs as predicted by many cost estimates (search google). The reason Bernie or Elizabeth don't explicitly say that during a debate or an interview is because they know media outlets will crop a soundbite about "RaIsInG TaXeS!1!1!!" and plaster it all over TV and the web. Moderate Democrats do not help clarify the matter when they use similar arguments espoused by Republicans or the health insurance industry.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LincolnRossiter
(560 posts)Gotta give him respect for the honesty there.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)...that tax increase will be more than offset by overall savings on healthcare costs. The average family in America will likely save thousands of dollars per year under M4A according to many cost estimates. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. M4A is a single payer health insurance program designed after many functional and established systems in other countries.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Any other taxes -- such as on corporations, wealth taxes, etc. -- should be specified.
If there will be no other costs -- like deductibles, coinsurance, dental, etc., as these two are promising -- voters can decide whether they believe it. Neither candidate has done that. The "It will be less than what we are spending now in the aggregate" is just not enough for most people.
Also, the amount necessary for healthcare should not be touted in isolation from the other "big ideas" they are offering -- free college, debt forgiveness, climate change, job training, shoring up Social Security, deficit/debt reduction, childcare, etc.
All of those are worthy ideas, and lots of people need it. Just tell us what it is going to cost.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)she's overall correct, the cost of health care will go down but taxes will go up less.
So, she simply needs to fill in the details...health care costs you X right now, by switching to MFA, health care will cost you X-Y which is what you will pay in taxes (or words to that effect). The difference will be made up by a tax on this top 2 percent or that wall street transaction...and overall you will pay less just doing it through taxes, but your healthcare will be better and you won't have to worry about losing it because you don't work or because you change jobs.
That's "sellable." For some reason though, it's not being sold with that level of detail.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(92,190 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)At least he's being honest about taxes across the board. What none of the Medicare 4 All supporters will say is the 'level' of taxation to expand Medicare far beyond what is offered now. There's a reason for that:
Americans hate taxes, period. You can dress it up with talk about no deductibles and co-pays but the phrase 'tax increase' produces a visceral reaction in the vast majority of the public.
As Shumlin and his colleagues in Vermont found out that tax burden turned out to be onerous on business and residents alike without reducing coverage levels people already had. Without addressing the explosive costs of healthcare services and pharmaceuticals, the Medicare 4 All package is doomed to fail. Be it state level or nationally. First steps first. Bring costs down while providing the greatest good for the greatest number of people with the ultimate goal of universal healthcare coverage. This isn't going to be done quickly. Americans have healthcare concerns and needs right now, in the moment. So, the idea of taking away the coverage they have does not play well, something underscored by current polling.
Let's not pretend any of this is going to be easy. We saw the Battle Royale that Obama & Pelosi faced pushing the ACA through. That was with a Senate majority and a 70% public approval for healthcare reform. It was still tough. Past is prelude.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrToast
(6,414 posts)I agree that the media will freak out over that, but the way to change the narrative is to address it head on, not ignore it.
If taxes are going to go up, Warren should explain why thats a good thing and why people will get more for their money that way. That seems to be what shes implying, and thats a legitimate position, but I think she should embrace that position.
Yes, your taxes are going to go up and heres why thats better for Americans...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,190 posts)have to outline it with more details, and saying that it will be offset with the vague statement, "by a reduction in overall healthcare costs" isn't going to cut it either, and it is more than just increased taxes, which was the reason I brought in the costs for Medicare today if people were to BUY INTO IT who haven't paid through Medicare Taxes, because that gives you a reference point of premium costs, and that was just for Medicare Part A. Part B will cost another 130 some dollars a month, plus a supplemental plan. While that could also be rolled into an advantage plan, to reduce costs, it will also limit flexibility of where you can go, and involve rationing.
It is more than just increased taxes, the new incoming people coming into Medicare will have to pay premiums. How much will those be?
Those currently on Medicare have already paid those premiums for Medicare Part A, and they still have to pay additional premiums for Part B, C, D, or supplemental plans depending what options they choose.
and yes, even with premiums being paid, taxes will still need to be increased, and that information should be upfront. It isn't just about "raising taxes", you are getting something back for raising those taxes, and that is healthcare coverage.
I understand the taboo about raising taxes, but the fact is where do people think all the services from infrastructures, police, fire, etc. come from. Our taxes. Who is fooling who. There is nothing wrong with paying taxes if they are spent for what they are intended for
The other issues are that a good number of people want keep their current coverage. One size does not fit all.
A lot more details need to be outlined, otherwise it means very little. Will M4A be mandatory? How will it effect those currently on Medicare? What if people want to keep their current coverage? etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,975 posts)She did last night, and she did talking to Chris Matthews on another debate night.
I've seen her supporters applaud her for dodging the question.
But I've also seen comments that she keeps being evasive, and that might not impress people who aren't already her supporters.
OTOH, her evasiveness seemed wonderfully impressive one pundit, but I think that deserves a separate OP...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)made?
She supports GND and proposes in addition: free 2 and 4 year college, universal childcare,
95 percent student debt cancellation, affordable housing, better housing for military families, 200 billion dollars for opioid crisis, 50 billion for black colleges, 200 more per month per person social security.
I see no proposals to protect current social security, Medicaid, Medicareall under threat. I see no
proposals to fix broken, underfunded, or imperiled CURRENT social programs. We also need to make a sizable investment in infrastructure. And we need resources for 11 million immigrants we must put on a path to citizenship if we are to have sane and humane immigration reform. We also
must provide lawyers and judges to process asylum claims ASAP. We should be taking in a great many asylum seekers if we re-establish the criteria for being approved to enter the US.
We have a historically high deficit.
I can only think that we will be taxed much, much more if Warren makes good on these promises.
I am willing to pay more, but I dont want M4All, believe debt relief can be given without going to the extent of 95 percent cancellation, think massive foreclosures need to be addressed, would prefer a reform of our welfare system, and more money to provide food stamps, than a token 200 per month in social security, want to see investment in two year colleges that are unable to accommodate demand and need to expand vocational offerings, and so much else fixing and protecting that bold, new ideas, giving to high income folksalong with low income are not speaking to.
These bold new ideas might juice things up in an election year. They sound good. But they do not
take into account what is not currently working in an array of social needs programs, other large and ongoing investments we must make, other types of crippling debt than student debt, or that as a country we are severely indebted. They are token and selective investments. Unfortunately, they are also potentially political killers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Thanks, Elizabeth!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)In my family my mother and at least one of my sisters are strong Warren supporters, but all three of us are worried about Medicare for All. We don't want to lose this election on this issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Warren supporting it is a huge plus for the country.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)But can she beat Trump?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)will be seen to win by those already inclined against him and seen to lose by all those who continue to support him.
Biden was the first candidate to bring a substantive case against Trump in the launch of his campaign. He has continued to make that case more strongly than any others. The case Biden makes is one that has the potential to stir the hearts, not only the minds, of the largest numbers of Americans:
Snipby Jonathan Capeheart for WaPo
Joe Biden reminded all of us of what a presidential president would sound like
What gave Bidens address more power was that it wasnt just a harangue against Trump. It was a reminder of who we are as a nation, the soul of America, as he called it.
Snip-Biden
What this president doesnt understand is that unlike every other nation on earth, we're unable to define what constitutes "American" by religion, by ethnicity, or by tribe; you can't do it.
America is an idea. An idea stronger than any army, bigger than any ocean, more powerful than any dictator or tyrant. It gives hope to the most desperate people on earth
.
The most powerful idea in the history of the world I think beats in the hearts of the people of this country. And it beats in all of us. No matter your race, your ethnicity. No matter your gender identity, your sexual orientation. No matter your faith. It beats in the heart of rich and poor alike. It unites America -- whether your ancestors were Native to these shores or they were brought here forcibly and enslaved, whether they were immigrants generations back, like my family from Ireland, or those coming today looking to build a better life for your family.
The American creed that we are all created equal was written long-ago. But the genius of every generation of Americans has opened it wider and wider and wider, to include those who have been excluded in a previous generation. Thats why it has never gathered dust in the history books.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)I might be wrong, but it seems odd that she wouldn't release her own plan when having "a plan for that" is her calling card. I would imagine that she probably believes this is the right thing to do (as do I), but doesn't want to to paint herself in a corner over this issue.
Overhauling health care would spend a great deal of political capital, and I feel like there are other massive battles that she is prioritizing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)You may have hit on something here. This makes a lot of sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calguy
(5,306 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,410 posts)Because most Americans want private insurance options and are very pleased with their current insurance plans.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)but hey, that's only me, maybe you have more specific knowledge that I do.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
madville
(7,410 posts)Only 38 percent of voters favor MFA. 48% favor a government run public option with private insurance still available is one so chooses.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Seems that maybe alot of people with worries about M4A are more concerned about what other people think, and are hedging their bets out of fear.
Primaries should be a time to stand proud for good ideas. Showing weak points in confidence now is toxic.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)The ACA was averaging roughly 51% disapproval with approval almost never above 50%. Republicans' opposition to the ACA helped them win control of the House in 2010, control of the Senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016
People really did not approve of it until they realized what they would lose if Trump wasn't so incompetent in his efforts to end it. But it was the best for the country, which is why Obama deserves so much credit for that fight.
People generally hate profit-driven insurance companies, but they tend to be afraid of what would replace it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,563 posts)to force folks off of workplace insurance no matter how much 'transition' she suggests is a lose lose issue...I would vote for her but she looses in a landslide...the union voters we need in the mid west won't vote for her...which means kiss the EC and victory goodbye.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)but not the nomination. It suits her purposes to have Sanders in the race about 15%, while side stepping attacks by the left on health.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)a huge pivot if she gets the nomination. I am not sure she'd be able to do so, which is a pity because she would make a fantastic President.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)but not as bad as her plan to decriminalize the border.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elocs
(22,571 posts)or how many years it would take to become law, if ever?
So there is no plan B, it's MFA or nothing. What would she tell people who might expect MFA to happen if she is elected and it doesn't happen?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Why is it always the people who want to try to go the furthest are the only ones who get these questions? It's a goal. Not a promise. Something to work toward. And if she doesn't make it...at least she tried...and I'd rather have that than aiming for small steps and ending up with nothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,571 posts)Or is it MFA or nothing?
I want to hear what Warren will do and not a deflection about Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)What presidential candidate talks about one of their big issues failing? This line of questioning is just not valid in my opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden