Biden's answer on 'repairing the legacy of slavery' and 'inequality in schools and race'

[bigtree]

...brought forward a response from the former VP which harkened back to something he got into hot water for in 2007.

...the question

Mr. Vice president, I want to come to you and talk to you about inequality in schools and race. In a conversation about how to deal with segregation in schools back in 1975, you told a reporter, "I don't feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather, I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation, and I'll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago."

You said that some 40 years ago. But as you stand here tonight, what responsibility do you think that Americans need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in our country?

...Biden's answer:

BIDEN: Well, they have to deal with the -- look, there's institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I got involved, I started dealing with that. Red-lining banks, making sure that we are in a position where -- look, you talk about education. I propose that what we take is those very poor schools, the Title I schools, triple the amount of money we spend from 15 to $45 billion a year. Give every single teacher a raise, the equal raise to getting out -- the $60,000 level.

Number two, make sure that we bring in to help the teachers deal with the problems that come from home. The problems that come from home, we need -- we have one school psychologist for every 1,500 kids in America today. It's crazy.

The teachers are -- I'm married to a teacher. My deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them. We have -- make sure that every single child does, in fact, have 3-, 4-, and 5-year-olds go to school. School. Not daycare. School. We bring social workers in to homes and parents to help them deal with how to raise their children.

It's not want they don't want to help. They don't -- they don't know quite what to do. Play the radio, make sure the television -- excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night, the -- the -- make sure that kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school -- a very poor background will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there.

Here's what I'm looking at here. I'm not 100% certain Biden was speaking specifically about black kids, but I'm fairly certain.

It's a problematic answer which assumes the things he's proscribing aren't already being offered children in black families. I don't know what he believes would precipitate bringing a 'social worker into homes,' or why he believes those families don't know how to raise their children.

It's a problematic answer, even if he's just referring to 'poor kids,' but it's an odd response to 'inequality' in schools, which I don't believe was meant to be a reflection of the financial status of families, but rather about the inequality in resources in black communities compared to others.

Going on about 'problems brought from home' appears to blame these children and their families for broken school systems which are beside the point about families which may be having difficulty.

And here's what's puzzling to me about Biden's answer. This is the same kind of response which got him into hot water a decade ago, interestingly, using much the same argument, but his spokespeople later insisting then that he was only talking about poor families, not black families.


here's what he said in 2007:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - In what the Washington Post is describing as a "stumble," Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden said in an interview with the paper Wednesday that Washington's high minority population is one of the reasons for the city's education problems.

Explaining why schools in Iowa are performing better than those in Washington, D.C., Biden told the Post, "There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."

"When you have children coming from dysfunctional homes, when you have children coming from homes where there's no books, where the mother from the time they're born doesn't talk to them - as opposed to the mother in Iowa who's sitting out there and talks to them, the kid starts out with a 300 word larger vocabulary at age three. Half this education gap exists before the kid steps foot in the classroom," the Delaware Democrat added.

The paper reports Biden's campaign quickly sought to clarify the remarks, saying in a statement that the senator was not making a "race-based distinction" but rather a "socio-economic" one.

Where is Biden getting this stuff? It's offensive to ALL families, on its face, and just wild if he's talking about black families, in particular, which he appears to do in both instances.

I know what to expect here questioning Biden on his comments on race, but I do not believe he's a racist. I do, however, think he's tone-deaf and outright regressive in these remarks.

[bigtree]

2. I'm saddened by this, not so much for his response, which was awful

...but for the decades I've been fighting negative perceptions about my family and communities I've lived in, often just to get to equal treatment.

And yes, those fights extended to treatment of my children in schools, access to resources and opportunities, as well as incidents of discipline which I felt was targeted and excessive. What are we really to learn from what he said? What kind of guidance is that for the nation? It's pablum, and damned offensive. 2019, ya'll, with the former, two-term Democratic VP speaking about a people literally under siege, along with all of the remedies our nation committed to their safety and well-being. But, hey, send a social worker into their home because the schools lacking resources are burdened by their 'problem' kids.

But, aside from how I feel personally, I think Biden gave a pat answer he's used before to deflect all of what the question entailed right back onto those families he was suggesting needed help raising their kids.

[bluewater]

3. +1000

Thank you for the OP.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

76. That might be the worst answer I've heard from Joe... indeed, out of any candidate in the 3 debates.

What was Joe thinkin?! Talk about condescending... in a question about reparations no less. The correct answer is: I was wrong to say "no" to reparations all these years... I've changed my mind and now no longer oppose it. Joe blew it, plain and simple.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

104. Joe's speech on Sunday was amazing

Link to tweet

[thesquanderer]

5. That Rolling Stone piece provides a perspective that is unfortunate, but based in fact.

I don't know if Biden is really at any risk of losing his enormous minority support in early primary states, so maybe it's moot. But I don't think he did himself any favors there last night.

[loyalsister]

18. The inflamatory headline masked some really good points

It's true that liberals have skated by on being not racist for too long. The idea of post racial and color blindness are rooted in a carlessness that has maintained white supremacy.

That he didn't answer Lindsay Davis' the question is a horribly overlooked problem. Especially when it's so easy to answer... "I'm not responsible for slavery, AND I am among the rest of the white people in the US who benefited from it. And, it continues to hurt us all as systemic racism is persistently self perpetuating." The resistance to the possibility that those things can all be true is frustrating to those of us who do want to see anti racism replace color blindedness and not racist as political alibis used by people who don't want to hurt the feelings of people who support or have no objections to the bigotry which permeates the GOP.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

78. That's being kind... Rolling Stone is right on target on this one.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

6. FYI: The rollingstone article referenced was posted this morning and admin immediately took it down

[bigtree]

7. Jamil Smith is a prominent, mostly mainstream, black writer

...his title (and maybe his posit) was unnecessarily inflammatory, though, for DU.

Can't have folks here (or posts) calling for our Dems to withdraw.

[bluewater]

9. It's why I did not post his title and only a excerpt that was on point.

Maybe it's best to self delete and avoid upsetting anyone and not distract from your excellent OP.

[melman]

16. Are people somehow entitled to not be upset?

If that same article had been about Bernie it would have been posted five times already. Title and all.

[questionseverything]

29. some are more equal than others

[thesquanderer]

25. re: "Can't have folks here (or posts) calling for our Dems to withdraw."

There have been plenty of posts suggesting that certain candidates drop out.

[wellst0nev0ter]

39. The rules aren't necessarily applied fairly n/t

[lunasun]

32. Wait people post here they will never vote for Bernie or Castro needs to go but a mainstream media

article posted was pulled ? RS is not RW
As far as the OP, the debate question was reparations and she asked about his opinions in the past .
When he answered, he moved on to focus on title 1 schools (which are majority low income-poor families) . He decided to move away from answering the original subject or address his past reply.

Was he talking about black families ?

I will base one of my assumptions on one of his statements earlier last month where he said “poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids,”
At the time he was talking to Latinos .
So one thing I can assume is that the title 1 school talk at the debate
about family dysfunction was not about white families.

But yes , since the question was regarding reparations, I can also assume he was imagining black families when answering at the debate, although it was general poor families he had moved on to by definition.
These are my assumptions of course because I do not know what he actually was thinking, or why.

[brush]

51. He needs to learn to say "disadvantaged families" as all AAs aren't poor. It's a small thing...

but come on, Joe, you're running for president, one of the party's alleged best, so you have to be able to adapt and bring your word choices up to respectful and accurate ones and stop repeating the patronizing mini-gaffe which infers that all black families are poor and don't know how to raise their kids.

[BlueWI]

58. +10,000

A three hour meeting with the campaign team, a good consultant, and Biden himself is in order.

[brush]

63. Yes, it's not that hard. Symone Sanders is on his staff. This should be done ASAP as his lexicon...

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

on race matters is not current.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

89. ABSO-FUCKIN-LUTELY!! Well said!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[blm]

4. I think this may end up as

The worst moment of the debate once people realize more what was said.

Which will mostly be unfair in the long run, as I don’t think he really meant it as it was said, but, many people end up repeating the pat phrases they remember. I do not see him as a racist, just someone under pressure who couldn’t articulate his own thoughts while relying on past decades of popular thinking.

[oasis]

53. +1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

82. Joe can survive this, but only if he holds a press conference ASAP & apologizes for these remarks.

Otherwise, they will be repeated again and again by the press, and cast as overly insensitive.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

103. Hate only hides, it doesn't go away. We have not relegated white supremacy and racism to the pages o

Link to tweet

[BlueWI]

8. Spot on.

While I am sure his campaign staff is helping him craft a message for the year 2020 on issues of racial inequality, the lack of ease in addressing these issues shows up in how he speaks. Hopefully this can be managed well enough that there are no cringe-worthy statements made if he's the nominee, because we certainly need to maximize turnout among voters of color in 2020, not to mention have sound policy too.

People of color who loyally support Democrats deserve better than this answer. But perhaps with a team approach to governing there will be greater expertise in policy design and more savvy communication.

[blm]

13. Hopefully before the backlash builds. This is tough.

https://www.theroot.com/post-debate-analysis-joe-biden-is-a-white-man-the-med-1838099542

[BlueWI]

22. Thanks for the rec.

We'll see how things develop. The heat will continue to rise through Iowa and beyond. We'll see who finds their message first.

[Celerity]

24. that article led me to go back and look at the transcript

Biden DID say what Castro said he did, Biden did say BUY IN, and he did say the 'can automatically become part of this plan' and ' They can join immediately.' Biden did not (and his plan does not say it either) say they are automatically ENROLLED. The ONLY people Biden's plans states who will be automatically enrolled are the extreme poor (138% and under of the Federal poverty level). A person who loses their insurance from a job that pays above that will NOT be auto-enrolled. Do not take my word for it, go search 'enroll' and 'automatically' in his entire healthcare plan at the link. What Biden did was to try and conflate a DIFFERENT EXAMPLE (ie. where he says below IF they are eligible for MEDICAID (ie the 138% of FPL) when the conversation was NOT about only that group of extremely poor, and YES a person making more not only is not auto-enrolled, BUT they do have to BUY-IN, which is EXACTLY what Castro said.

He (Casro) was right. Biden said first they DID have to buy in (the job-loser, and he NEVER stipulated they had to only a near poverty worker), then Biden said he did not say that, but he did say it. Biden was wrong. He tried to play 'move-the-goalpost' when he was challenged by Castro. The key part is when Biden tried to claim

BIDEN: I said anyone like your grandmother who has no money.

He did not say that when he was talking about a job-loser (which is exactly what Castro was talking about.) Biden also DID say BUY-IN (exactly what Castro claimed) as anyone making over 138% of FPL does have to buy-in, and also they are NOT auto-enrolled. Read the transcript below for yourself, read Biden's own plan.

It is a big deal, as people eligible for Medicaid are only a relatively small percentage of the full-time or near full-time workforce, most are children, the ageing, limited part-time workers and the disabled,most of whom are not covered by an employer-based insurance plan anyway.

138% of FPL is only $16,753. If you make around 8.50 USD per hour or more and work 40 hours a week, you do not qualify. If you are a couple filing jointly it is even harder to qualify, even if you also had a child.

https://help.ihealthagents.com/hc/en-us/articles/223155407-What-are-Federal-Poverty-Levels-Used-for-



Also, Biden's own website itself says (and this is a BEST-CASE scenario) that around 10 million will remain uninsured (so it is NOT universal coverage at all) and that has been fact-checked as true.


The Transcript

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/13/transcript-third-democratic-debate/



snip



snip

[questionseverything]

30. the problem is biden has no clue how poor you have to be to qualify for medicaid

as most pols don't understand it

[floppyboo]

45. +1

And this is why going towards the center right will not work. Never Trumpers will write in someone else (I dunno - do they ever stay home?) and it certainly won't flip any purple/blue lean states.

The trust in this old school political speech belongs to a dying breed, in more ways than one.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

83. No doubt Joe's advisors are working overtime tonight!! I think Joe's campaign can survive...

but it better act fast!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[UniteFightBack]

10. I'm sorry but her reading and purposefully weaving that 40yr old quote into the 'question' gave it

away.

[Kind of Blue]

12. What she did reminds me of Dr. King's "Letter From Birmingham Jail."

We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with an its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

So I have not said to my people: "Get rid of your discontent." Rather, I have tried to say that this normal and healthy discontent can be channeled into the creative outlet of nonviolent direct action. And now this approach is being termed extremist.

I had hoped that the white moderate would see this need. Perhaps I was too optimistic; perhaps I expected too much. I suppose I should have realized that few members of the oppressor race can understand the deep groans and passionate yearnings of the oppressed race, and still fewer have the vision to see that injustice must be rooted out by strong, persistent and determined action. I am thankful, however, that some of our white brothers in the South have grasped the meaning of this social revolution and committed themselves to it. They are still too few in quantity, but they are big in quality.

Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon pass away and the deep fog of misunderstanding will be lifted from our fear-drenched communities, and in some not too distant tomorrow the radiant stars of love and brotherhood will shine over our great nation with all their scintillating beauty.

https://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html

SSDD

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. Yeah, can't bring up things that Joe is on record as saying

that'd be unfair, yaknow.

[Garrett78]

70. Gave what away?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

95. Yeah, god forbid he actually explain how his current views are different than his old views.

[blm]

11. It's going to get worse than that Rolling Stone article.

IMO. Hopefully, Biden can address the backlash with his true heart and feelings, and leave in the past the pat answers constructed by others and accepted by decades of privilege, that didn’t even sound like him.

If he doesn’t I see another split in the electorate forming. One the Professional trolls will exploit.

[bigtree]

15. "Biden blamed black parents..."

"When asked what he feels Americans today must do to repair the harm from the legacy of slavery, Biden blamed black parents..."

...what I said.

[blm]

17. I don't believe this is Biden's heart or thoughts.

I think his reply was that of someone under intense pressure who went with what popped into his head, the traditional white privilege answer. Sad, because, IMO, this didn’t even SOUND like him.

[bigtree]

19. well, you were on to it when you said Biden was 'relying on past decades of popular thinking'

...relying on old, discredited, racist tropes politicians once employed to divert from, and dismiss concerns like segregation and inequality.

Thing is, he's relied on the same mischaracterizations in the past. It's something politicians used to get away with, regularly, with no minority peers, and no minority media to call them on it.

At least two prominent black voices in the media filled that role today.

[blm]

20. It was the response of an older person fumbling for an answer and

I felt sorry for him, because I just don’t believe it is who he is. I think he will suffer a backlash that will be emotionally painful for him. I hope he addresses it with a true heart.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

109. Sad is the right word... and shocking. Couldn't believe that rambling answer.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

90. A LOT worse... that's why Joe needs to immediately hold a press conference and apologize

for past remarks and clarify his views, showing that he has changed with the times.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Kind of Blue]

14. K&R!

Big Thanks to you, bigtree, for your persistent light

[Blue_true]

21. Biden is making a good point. Although he butchered it.

Segregation in my southern town in Florida ended in 1969, yes, 1969. That is how long the racists held out, from 1963 to 1969 for society at large and 1954 to 1969 for schools (Florida schools integrated in 1969 under the leadership of the great Governor Reuben Askew).

Before integration and even after, racism in the system produced all types of roadblocks to Blacks.

So let's focus on education. In order for a kid to learn, he or she has to have role models. If the kid had parents who did not get great educational opportunities, the chance that kid would succeed was minimal at best. People that would have finished school in 1969 (if they didn't drop out) would have produced the first batch of kids that would go 100% to integrated school, often competing with kids that came from families with well educated parents. How would you expect that competition to end?

In Florida, we are 2.5 generations removed from the brutality of segregation, but it is unknown how far we are from the effects of routinely denying people good paying jobs because of their race. Educated and prosperous parents produce better students on average because they are better at setting expectations and understanding and affording resources like tutors.

So let's get to what Biden said. He basically said that a kid from a home that has a poorly prepared parent has little chance of doing better. So how do we break that cycle? Universal Pre-K is key, but parents have to set study times for kids when they come home, if that does not happen, a Pre-K school becomes nothing more than a nursery, some with disruptive kids whose parents don't set expectations for. So how do you get parents to set expectations for kids when they may not know how to do that and where resources are? Train social workers to go into most at risk homes and work with parents, start those visits as soon as a baby is conceived, so that issues like proper nutrition can be dealt with. The social worker works with parents from conception to graduation from high school.

I just don't see why some of the same people that harp about the income and job disparity between Black/Brown Hispanic (as opposed to Cuban Whites, who have been treated as White in America from Day 1) and Whites can't understand that disparity bleeds directly into academic outcomes and the way to break that cycle runs along the path the Biden envisions (but butchered the explanation of).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

84. Joe butchered it alright... so why not just come out with an apology and statement

that he no longer holds these controversial views?! Just do it fast before the media goes crazy on these latest comments to come to light.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Blue_true]

99. You mean that Cornguy story? The Obit for the guy has what Biden called him and

Biden did work at the pool.

I grew up poor, people feared having someone come after them with a straight razor, but one sure way to prevent that was to carry a piece of heavy chain or a good-sized piece of metal pipe.

[Fiendish Thingy]

23. Biden's answer, besides being incoherent, was tone deaf paternalistic racism

His scoff as the question was being asked was disgusting, and his response is being criticized widely by the AA community on Twitter.

Some are calling for Biden to end his campaign because of this scoffing reply:

(link to RS editorial deleted to avoid apparent violation of TOS, or at least avoid being alerted, although I don't see posts calling for Castro to end his campaign getting hidden)

[Garrett78]

26. Agreed. Name recognition and Obama's coattails will wear off.

Biden has never been presidential material. Not in 1988, 2008 or now.

[crazytown]

27. You are not going to be able to convince black voters

that Obama did not know Joe's heart when he called him 'brother'. In political terms, this is a fools errand. It's going to be young voters that seal his fate. Barking up the wrong tree.

[StarfishSaver]

33. Obama selecting him as his vice president doesn't absolve Biden of any responsibility for addressing

his approach on race. Like every other candidate, Biden must stand on his own and speak for himself and people can't just say, "Obama picked him and that's good enough for me" and expect him to get a pass.

Barack Obama isn’t Joe Biden’s “Magical Negro”

When I first read “Dreams From my Father,” I was deeply moved by Barack Obama’s depiction of his shock and hurt he felt when his beloved grandmother revealed an ingrained prejudice toward young black men, seemingly oblivious to the fact that she was talking about young men not much different than her own grandson. He touched on this again in his landmark 2008 speech on race: “I can no more disown him [Jeremiah Wright] than I can my white grandmother — a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.”

This struck me because it so eloquently captured an experience of most black Americans, the duality of our existence and how we, perhaps more than any other group, must view everyone not in bold, stark lines, but as humans navigating a long, complex, racial prism. We are constantly confronted – sometimes in painful ways – with the fact that our white brethren (and in some cases, our own family members) have a long way to go to reach full racial understanding (as we all do) and that even the best intentioned of them are struggling and often fall short. This doesn’t make them bad people and it certainly doesn’t mean they’re racists. It means they’re human.
...
But even more troubling is the propensity of some to inject former President Obama into the conversation, claiming Obama’s choice of Biden as his vice president somehow translates into no one having the right to question Biden’s civil rights record. However, being tapped as Obama’s vice president in no way releases Biden from an obligation to explain his civil rights record – any more than it erases any other part of his history with which Obama may not have agreed (such as his Iraq war vote). Obama picked him DESPITE his record on civil rights, not because of it. Or possibly it was a combination of the two, since Obama no doubt considered that Biden’s anti-busing views and attempts to undermine desegregation efforts in Delaware and across the country (including the voluntary busing plans he now says he supported, even though he didn’t at the time) may have been a factor in his selection. After all, how better to show skeptical moderate and conservative white Democrats that Obama wasn’t some kind of a black radical than to bring in Scranton Joe into the fold?

...
But Obama’s selection of Biden should not be seen as an absolution of his civil rights history. Treating it as such is insulting not only to those two decent men, but to the millions of voters who understand how complicated race is in America is and know that working with all types of people, even those who may not be as evolved on race as we might be, is key to getting anything done and to making any progress on race and every other difficult issue confronting us. Just as having a problematic history on civil rights doesn’t make Biden a racist, being Obama’s vice president doesn’t release Biden from the obligation to explain his own views and record on civil rights.

Biden is running to be President of the United States and, if he wants that job, he must address his entire record, not just the parts he’s proud of. And that means he has some explaining to do about his positions and actions on civil rights ... If he’s the man I think he is, he’ll be willing and able to do that, openly, honestly and undefensively. But he must do it in his own voice and from his own heart, and not hide behind Barack Obama, who may be one of Biden’s best friends, but is not his Magical Negro.
http://www.stephaniejones.com/barack-obama-isnt-joe-bidens-magical-negro/

[crazytown]

34. That was not what I said.

Obama starting called Biden, 'brother' from 2015 onwards. In 2015, Biden was in extremis.

This is such dumb politics.

[StarfishSaver]

38. I have several close friends who are white who have a long way to go on race

One of them I even call my "brother." But my friendship with them isn't proof that they're great on race. Some of them (especially some of the older ones) are pretty clueless and backward about it but they have good hearts and they're trying and I know there's not much I can do to change them, so I just try to teach the where I can and otherwise just accept them as they are. That doesn't mean that I condone or agree with all of their views or believe that they have no room for improvement. It just means that I know they're human and are trying.

[crazytown]

42. I do't think Biden is great on race either

'pretty clueless and backward' just about covers it. But a unkindly attacking a man the president called brother, if only in private, is counterproductive - brothers and sisters defend their own - if it comes to that. I remember when some were calling Obama an oreo.

On current polls Biden won't win ... there are two, no one challenger who clear the 15% threshold in most of contests which means he's got to do better than both of themput together. Even the 50% he's getting in some southern states can't fix that.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Insisting that questioning someone's record on race is an "attack" is a big part of the problem

People, especially politicians, have their records and views questioned all the time. But when that record and views are about race, any question is thrown back in people's faces as an unfair "attack" as if white people shouldn't ever have to explain themselves, a perfect depiction of white privilege.

[crazytown]

44. The work I used was unkind

a criticism that maligns the heart.

[StarfishSaver]

46. Criticism about someone's approach to race does not a"malign the heart"

And assuming it does feeds into the kind of white fragility that makes it nearly impossible to ever address these issues.

[BlueWI]

48. Are you suggesting that Obama calling Biden brother has some bearing

on how Biden should be vetted for his views on race as a presidential candidate?

Unkindly attack? Biden is running for the highest elective office, and there's a lot at stake, including a resurgence of racism thanks to the Trump campaign and presidency. This is no time for non-answers.

There are black communities that lack access to grocery stores, amid shortages of housing, lack of safety and employment, and limited educational opportunity. Being Obama's former VP is all well and good, but what about policy solutions? What successes can Biden point to that indicate his ability to continue progress? He had 8 years with Obama to build a record - where specifically, did he contribute to the administration's effort to address issues regarding race? What the heck - mention Arne Duncan and Race to the Top, something. Biden was a part of the administration, and this is the best he can do?

Biden's language simply needs to come up to a 2019 standard. This answer had too much generalizing about what needs to happen in black families - plenty of black families make time for reading to their children and have advanced verbal acuity. Why improvise an answer that pushes forth stereotypes and non-solutions? Sure, it would be great to raise teacher pay - if you can find enough teachers. There's an exodus of teachers from rural schools and some urban communities. Is Biden's answer referencing new federal investments in teacher compensation? Districts are strapped where I'm from - if there's no dollars behind Biden's answer, teacher pay raises ain't happening.

If this question comes up again, Biden is better off simply saying that the issue is complex and communities deserve real solutions, not analysis of previous statements. Deflection would be better than off the cuff, off-point generalities.

[crazytown]

49. I am saying that putting the worst spin on Biden's words

defames his character, without political gain.

Saying - 'Biden believes black people don't know how to raise children' - that what he meant - will lose, not win favors.

[BlueWI]

57. These so-called defamations are based on what Biden said.

Biden needs to improve his communication on these issues. The nation and black communities in particular are facing stalled progress towards the goal of greater equality, and a return of blaming the victim rhetoric is not what's needed. It's not productive to think of it as a personal attack on Biden - that's just dismissing a lot of honest opinion from those who find these statements not only problematic but easy to avoid by simply stopping the habit of improving answers on racial issues. The spotlight is going to be on when there's a gotcha question about Biden's even more problematic past statements. The campaign team and supporters need to lose the defensiveness, listen to the criticism, and refine the communication strategy. I'm not even supporting Biden in the primaries and I really hope his team improves. If he wins the nomination, he needs to be better at these issues.

And it's not just a short term political issue. There's a reality of unequal opportunity that is faced every day we don't take well-designed action to move forward. There's nothing wrong with expecting better from the potential nominee of the one major party in the USA that cares at all about these issues.

[crazytown]

60. Racism is not "unequal opportunity".

There's nothing wrong in expecting the nominee is not a racist at heart or in practice, does not support or pander to racists, and has not race neutral, by anti-racist policies

but it cannot have escaped your attention that in this election, the opponent is a out white supremacist. 'Is Biden anti-racist enough' reminds me of 'is Obama black enough', circa 2007.

[BlueWI]

65. Debating what's in someone's heart is a 1970s conversation.

The job of a president is to communicate well and design policy that moves the needle towards better outcomes.

Biden's response to the question was clearly deficient on both counts. He needs to do better to win the nomination, win the GE, and institute better policy that makes a difference in people's lives.

After decades in the Senate and 8 years as VP, if this is the best he can do in response to a gotcha question based on his own words, that's on him and his campaign.

To pretend that this is about the 2008 campaign or about what's in Biden's heart is just deflection and doesn't serve the candidate well or the issues well. And what being anti-racist really means is the ability to lead us in word and practice toward better results. What's Biden's case for this, and why didn't he make that case better when answering the question?

There are multiple candidates running, several of which have better records on this issue. Biden has my vote in the GE if he wins the nomination, but meanwhile, these easily avoided, off-point statements do no one any favors.

[crazytown]

66. Yeah well

good luck to those selling Biden is a racist down in SC. they're gonna need it.

[BlueWI]

113. If anyone's selling Biden as a racist, it's Biden himself.

Stop referencing James Eastland and proposing to send social workers to black homes as a solution to inequality. It's almost 2020 and Daniel Moynihan cliches need a rest.

Biden currently has a plurality of black support, largely due to strong support from older voters. And while older voters are more likely to turn out in the primaries, he needs to maximize his margin in the GE. So he needs to clean up his communication and say more about his policies that will get better results in the real world. Can't afford a drop in black voter turnout nationally or we risk another 2016, and it won't matter how many primaries Biden won in states that habitually go red in the GE.

I'm rooting for Biden to improve because if he's the nominee, Democrats need to win.

[Garrett78]

37. Biden as running mate was a strategic choice. Obama didn't want Biden to run for president.

Obama knows Biden will embarrass himself. Biden has never been a good candidate for president.

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. Biden had to be stage-managed in the 2008 race

by the Obama campaign. That should tell you something.

On Edit: link for the historically challenged:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/world/americas/11iht-biden.4.16081515.html

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

110. Thanks for pointing that out... worth noting.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[LanternWaste]

97. Thankfully, no one argued it ab absolved Biden of responsibility. Only you mentioned it as such.

Natch.

[True_Blue]

28. Biden worries me

He"s been in politics for over 40 years, so he should be an expert at debating by now, but he was easily the worst. Of all the candidates, Biden is the only one that seriously concerns me in a debate with Trump.

[Garrett78]

36. Biden has never been a good candidate for president. Not in 88, 08 or now.

This whole Biden thing is rooted in a false narrative about what happened in 2016, why it happened and what we need to do to win in 2020. Name recognition and Obama's coattails can only carry Biden for so long.

The key to winning is not flipping Trump voters. What we need to do is boost turnout of young people, POC and white suburban women who aren't offended by the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to own a weapon of war. A Harris-O'Rourke ticket would produce record-breaking Dem turnout.

The truly telling numbers in key battleground states were not Obama-Trump voters but the number of people who voted in 2008/2012 and didn't vote (or voted 3rd party) in 2016. It's all about turnout of the base.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

86. We can't afford to make any missteps in 2020... this election is WAY too important!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[janterry]

31. Thank you for posting this

I almost threw something at the TV when Biden went off on this old school paternalistic mess. I'm so glad that it's being caught - and called out for what it is.

[McCamy Taylor]

35. Anyone who objects to affirmative actions because "I ain't my fault" is wallowing in their privilege

While cutting their own throat. I find that aspect of Biden absolutely unacceptable.


As a true socialist (not a faux name-called one) when I see cling people to their privilege, I want to bitch slap them--metaphorically speaking. I am not a violent person. Don't they realize that they are falling for the oldest trick in the capitalist's bag of dirty tricks, the old Divide and Conquer? Don't they realize that instead of kicking the person who is on a lower rung of the ladder they should offer a helping hand? By keeping certain groups of people under-educated and and underpaid, they drive down wages for everyone--including their own privileged pink asses.

[ChubbyStar]

47. OK I love you

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

111. Very well said!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[DeminPennswoods]

50. Biden's a man of his generation and time

I don't think Biden's the best candidate out there, but his answers should be taken in the context of his generation. It's like watching "I Love Lucy" where everyone smokes, women were homemakers, men were breadwinners and neither was deemed capable of doing the other's job. Or watching "The Honeymooners" and hearing Ralph tell Alice "you're going to the moon" while making a fist as if to punch her.

[BlueWI]

59. We don't have to nominate a man of his generation

if he's unable to address racial issues substantively in 2019. He's applying to be president - it's up to him to meet a reasonable standard in his communication.

The Republican party is already moving our racial politics backwards. The need to move forward couldn't be higher.

[DeminPennswoods]

61. Don't disagree, just noting

that when you listen to Biden, it's important to understand that context. To me, Biden's a moderate, centrist Dem, someone who will "go along, to get along". A lot like Obama in those respects.

[BlueWI]

62. Fair enough.

The scale of the problems to face is significant, and at the end of the day, it's not just the president that needs to act.

[Garrett78]

71. Biden is clearly not versed in anti-racism. It's one thing to read a speech.

But when you're asked in a debate how to address the legacy of slavery and your response - of all the ways to respond - is to suggest Black parents need to be taught how to parent, you do not belong in the White House in the 21st century. This is not 1950 and this is not a Republican primary. Joe's time has come and gone.

[BlueWI]

112. I agree.

I hope there is time taken by all to consider our strong candidates before closing ranks around Biden this soon

[Garrett78]

68. That's a sad but true commentary on the current front-runner.

His response was horrible, yet most posters seem more outraged by those who point out how horrible his response was. A sad but true commentary on DU.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

88. Interesting take... clearly Joe's time has come and gone. That third debate pretty much sealed it.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[tirebiter]

52. Reparations for slavery ya say.

My ancestors were on the long march to Oklahoma because white people wanted our land. What do I get. They then made the best of their lives and one manner some our nation used was slavery. Hey, it was legal and in fact run away slaves were taken in as equals and some of them became slave owners. It’s not just a black white thing. What does anybody owe the Italians or Irish? Sherman did try and make good with the 40 acres and a mule policy but that was immediate. That time done come and gone.

[Garrett78]

69. OMG, I think you're on the wrong site. You might fit in at Stormfront.

[tirebiter]

75. I'm going to let that pass one time

Because you don’t know me.

Or American history by your response

[brush]

87. Wrong site. You're so misinformed it's sad.

First of all, Native Americans should have also recieved reparations. Many nations have recently opened casinos which helps, but many btw have also denied those with native and black blood a share in gaming profits, for what that's worth.

And FYI: Enslaved Africans had their dawn-to-dusk, six days a week labor stolen for 250 years. To be clear that means they were not paid anything for 12-hour days of back-breaking work so they damn well deserve reparations just as your people do.

And there was never any 40 acres and a mule. The government rescinded that policy, and black people were not allowed to participate in the free land giveaways as white settlers were in the prairie land rushes.

Money btw with interest doubles every seven years so if that stolen labor was to be paid back it would break the US Treasury.

[still_one]

54. The question is a complex one, not ideal for a debate format, and it does involve one's environment

and home life in molding someone growing up.

The answer is not so easy though, because it infringes on the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit.

For example, a child brought up in a family which advocates the views of racism and bigotry, how will that child turn out?

It is not that far different than those who say, no one can tell me whether my kid can be vaccinated or not. While it can be argued legitimately, that this represents a public health hazard that affects the well-being of everyone, the environment a child is brought up in will also have an impact on society.

"No one tells me how I am going to raise my child"

At what point, if ever, should society intervene?

That is easy to determine if the child is provided with drugs or other concrete things that endanger that child, but that can't be done in cases with parents who don't involve themselves in what their children are doing, because it infringes on our freedoms.

That is why things like the school lunch programs, big brothers, head start, etc. are so important to try to address those deficiencies, and to ignore those deficiencies exist is putting one's head in the sand.

This is not the first time this issue has been brought up. This discussion has been going on for some time.

It is related to the reparation issue.

It is related to affirmative action.

It is related to the busing issue. To try to move students into a better environment where they can be in a better learning environment.

This is not simply a binary issue, it is far more complex, and involves individual rights, parents rights, and societies responsibilities, and I would argue those who want to simplify it to absolutisms, that if you go one way you are a racist, and if you go another way you are not, I believe are ignoring the complexities of the entire issue

I am skeptical how many actually want to have a real discussion on this, because it does involve some uncomfortable things, and they don't just apply to one demographic.

Every candidate should be asked this question, and I would venture most will not be able to give a simple answer because of the complexities involved

[NCLefty]

55. Warren resolves these 'gaffe' issues for me.

But he seems 'more electable' to much of the middle. And that matters.

Biden can probably fix this issue with a vibrant, young VP. Stacey Abrams, maybe. People will know if he loses his marbles, someone intelligent will be there to step in.

I still like Biden. I just worry.

[treestar]

56. Biden leads with black voters

These exaggerations, starting with Harris, are not working. He still seems to lead with Black voters. It's just not working. Black voters have the sense to know it is ridiculous when it comes to the opponent being the Dotard.

[bigtree]

64. Hillary led with black voters at this point, against Obama, something Biden acknowledged

...the only 'exaggerations,' are coming from folks trashing this news host in defense against these indefensible statements Biden made in response to how best we can deal with the legacy of slavery.

[treestar]

67. the average voter is not like Harris

and the average black voter does not find anything he said "indefensible." Keep Trying. It is not going to attract people to Harris, who has her own problems. She clearly has nothing to offer since you guys continue to resort to this strategy. Plus it's not working.

[bigtree]

72. your new thing is to accuse posters of holding/expressing an opinion or other to 'advance Harris'

...it really makes you look small.

If you believe this 58 year-old black man expresses his views here at DU on race to advantage politicians, you really don't know anything about me at all. How trite.

I daresay, I believe most posters I've had the pleasure of interacting here express and hold views independent of the support they express here for one candidate or the other, including you, in particular.

[treestar]

92. Still not working

And you are now lowering yourself to personal remarks.

[brush]

80. Not being part of the black community it's clear you're not aware of recent developments. There is..

now a dichotomy in the once solid black block of votes. That no longer exists as many GenXers and Millennials have issues with many stances Biden has taken over a long career (busing, the crime bill, the Anita Hill witnesses denial, the seemly fond reminiscences of working with segregationists, the jumbled response to the debate reparations question).

Older African Americans support Biden but many younger ones just don't. That's the reality of the now, non-monolithic black vote.

Don't get angry, just be aware of what's happening and if you have any connection to the Biden campaign use this information to inform him that many younger AA voters need to hear more modern views and even a more current lexicon in verbiage—I mean "record player"? That just doesn't work.

Symone Sanders is on his staff so perhaps she's the one to reach out to.

[treestar]

93. Keep trying

What polls show the difference between younger and older voters?

[brush]

94. Most polls don't separate age groups among demographic segments but if they did they'd find...

out what I just told you. Ignore it if you want.

[brush]

85. FYI: He leads with older black voters. Many GenXers and Millenials have issues with many stances...

he has taken over his long career—i.e., busing, the crime bill, the denial of witnesses appearance in the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings (now we have Thomas on the court for life), his seemingly fond reminiscences of working with segregationists, the jumbled and patronizing response to the reparations question at the recent debate.

Many outside of the AA community still thing that the black vote is a monolithic block when in actuality there is now a dichotomy with older voters still supporting Biden while younger ones just don't.

[Joe941]

73. This is a bit concerning.

[Garrett78]

74. It's more than a bit concerning. It's not 1950 and this isn't a Republican Primary.

There are those who have convinced themselves that only Joe Biden can defeat Trump, based largely on a false narrative about what happened in 2016 and why.

Some honestly seem to think the key to winning is flipping Trump voters in PA, MI and WI. As opposed to boosting turnout among the Democratic Party base. Hundreds of thousands who showed up for Obama didn’t show up for Clinton in key battleground states (it isn’t that they voted for Trump; it’s that they didn’t vote at all or voted 3rd party). But people think flipping Trump voters is the key (and that nominating an old white male will do the trick). It’s madness. This will be a base election. We need to boost turnout among persons of color, youth and white suburban women. That’s what will bring some semblance of sanity back to the White House.

Jamelle Bouie, by the way, wrote a great piece about the Obama-Trump voter.

People can’t seem to grasp that A) some racists voted for Obama (like the racists who are friends with or even married to a person of color and insist that they can’t be racist) following 8 years of Bush-Cheney and B) some of those Obama voters had become completely blinded by racism after 8 years of racist attacks on Obama (and are never coming back). Instead, they insist that a key to winning in 2020 is winning back a fraction of a fraction of voters who happened to vote for both Obama and Trump (due to *white* economic anxiety, ’cause – you know – POC don’t experience economic anxiety–yeah, that’s sarcasm). And, therefore, we need to nominate an old white man to defeat an old white man. Again, it’s madness.

Jamil Smith of Rolling Stone is exactly right that non-racism isn’t enough. And being able to deliver a scripted speech is not enough. We need someone well-versed in anti-racism, especially in the era of Trump. That ain’t Biden. And Biden has made comments that suggest he’s not even versed in non-racism. During the most recent debate, Linsey Davis of ABC News quoted Biden as saying he isn’t responsible for the sins of the past and then asked him how we repair the legacy of slavery. Biden went on to suggest that poor is synonymous with Black, as he’s done previously, and then suggested that Black parents need to be taught how to parent. These so-called debates don’t offer a person much time to speak, but the front-runner (riding name recognition and Obama’s coattails) for the Democratic Party nomination (in the year 2019) decided that was how he would address a question about repairing the legacy of slavery. WTF!

I’m going to set aside the fact that the study Biden referenced has come under scrutiny and just focus on how absurd it is that a 21st century Democratic front-runner for POTUS would say what Biden said. While poor is not synonymous with Black and vice versa, there is an enormous wealth gap. And that wealth gap has everything to do with the sins of the past and present (from slavery to convict leasing to redlining to environmental racism), so Biden should have started off by admitting that he was wrong to suggest he (and all of us) don’t bear responsibility for those sins (i.e., abhorrent crimes). He could have talked about addressing the wealth gap in any number of ways, about a culture that continues to see persons of color as less than human, about the hypocrisy surrounding affirmative action, about ongoing housing discrimination, about the wonderful platform of The Movement for Black Lives, and so on. Hell, he could have talked about the electoral college, a remnant of slavery. But, no, he chose to stand by his quote about not bearing responsibility and suggested that Black parents need to have people teach them how to parent. The man sounded more like Strom Thurmond than a 21st century presidential candidate for the Democratic Party.

[brush]

77. Well reasoned and thought out but brace for in-coming fire.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

81. A BIT concerning?! Now there's an understatement!! Joe needs to call a press conference tomorrow

before this thing starts to gain real traction.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Just wow!! Joe's debate answer was shocking...didn't realize tho just how offensive it really was

at the time. Better this comes out now, as part of the vetting process during the primary, so people can choose who's best to go up against the Racist-in-Chief and kick his white supremacist ass!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

106. Today, we honor Addie Mae, Cynthia, Carole, Denise, and recommit to defeating the poisonous ideology

Link to tweet

[tirebiter]

91. Joe Biden Speaks At The 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Cuthbert Allgood]

96. I am shocked that more Dems just dismiss his answer and are fine with it.

It was horrible on so many levels.

[StarfishSaver]

100. I might be ok with them just dismissing it

But many of them are falling all over themselves defending and explaining it and telling those of us who do regognize how pyramidally horrible it was that we don't know what we're talking about, we're "attacking" Biden and trying to discourage us from talking about it moving forward.

[Garrett78]

114. Or they point to a scripted speech to suggest his unscripted moments don't matter.

It's truly sad and pretty much my last straw with this place.

[StarfishSaver]

115. Yes. That, too.

[Gothmog]

105. We are in a battle for the soul of this nation

Link to tweet

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. Not shocked at all... it's clear what's going on.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[IronLionZion]

98. Biden has plenty of black Americans on his staff

and we know he has plenty of former Obama staffers. Either no one is reviewing his speeches or he's not listening to their feedback.

If giving any speech, interview, or debate talking point about people of a certain demographic, always review it with staffers of that demographic first. They could help him phrase it better.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

108. Good advice!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[ritapria]

101. Why does Joe say this stuff ?

I believe Joe is a good guy and definitely not a racist but he seems remarkably tone deaf on issues of race ..

[Gothmog]

102. Biden-We must give hate no safe harbor.

Link to tweet