Joy Reid: "Let me give the counterfactual to that."

[bigtree]

"Let me give the counterfactual to that."

That's how Joy Reid responded to Anand Giridharadas, who was the only guest at the time, and the ONLY one criticizing Biden. She then went on to argue why Biden might gain the support of not only Democrats, but some Trump republicans, as well.

"I spent the entire day at a Black Caucus event," Joy said to Giridharadas... Every black woman I spoke to over age 40, all of the grown folks I spoke to were 100% for Joe Biden.

Anyone trying to sell you that Joy Reid called for Biden to withdraw from the race, obviously did not watch the show. She did exactly the opposite. She actually made an extensive argument why Joe Biden could win and didn't veer from that posit.

[Cha]

1. Good for Reid because Joe Biden does

have strong support in the Black community right now no matter how many are trying to tear him down.

[Clash City Rocker]

5. And bad for the people here who've created a ton of posts criticizing Joy today

She gets ripped here to a ridiculous degree, usually by people who didn’t even really check what she said. It’s annoying.

[highplainsdem]

26. See my reply 23. Reid didn't object at all to her guest saying Biden was an insidious racist. Her

argument was that he might still get votes from whites who are somewhat racist but are becoming uncomfortable with Trump, and from blacks who felt they had to settle for someone like Biden, despite his supposedly lamentable views on race, because the country wouldn't vote for anyone more progressive, or for a POC.

[emmaverybo]

2. Joy and others on MSNBC might sometimes mix it up and invite one of Biden's many black

supporters on. They are pretty lop-sided. I mean they would have quite a few significant black voices to add to their roster of never-Bidens if they wanted to counter-contextualize, truly,

[highplainsdem]

27. Any of Biden's many black supporters would have taken strong exception to Joy's guest

calling Biden an insidious racist (as opposed to a Klan member), and to Joy's apparent agreement with him.

See my reply 23.

[emmaverybo]

36. True! And on MSNBC had they cared to show a black Biden supporter "the day after" the Harris

debacle, they might have widened the lens, but no. It’s actually, their lack of diverse points of view
among black commentators, which is quite unenlightening.

It is as though they claim these, only these folks, represent the black electorate, which they would have you believe, are all alike, and all like these guests, this panel member.

I am done with Joy and with MSNBC for the most part. I will also write producers,

That was what the Obama online grassroots organization did. Obama got the most harsh and unfair media coverage ever—from so-called liberals. But the media watch wing persisted, countering lies with facts, writing producers, boycotting even.

Resist.

[brush]

3. I'm starting to wonder why there is so much immediate bandwagoning against Reid and Harris...

whenever there is a negative post here? Both are black women, and just about everyone swears Dems can't win without the African American vote, and yet here and on social media these two get shredded quite often.

WTF is going on? I'll just come out and ask it, is this racism going on?

That meme going around that Joy Reid was pushing Biden to step down is the exact opposite of what happened on her show.

[EffieBlack]

7. You noticed that, too?

[brush]

10. Yes, it's quite noticeable, especially here on a "progressive" site?

[Afromania]

21. I know I have.

[people]

37. Criticizing Joe Biden

Why should anyone who is clearly a democrat be trashed for not falling head over heels with Joe Biden? There is NOThing wrong with Joy Reid having guests who are not particularly impressed by Biden’s comments when it comes to race. Yes, I will vote for him if he’s the nominee but I do find some of his comments about race condescending and insensitive. Do I think he’s a bad person? No. When he talks about how to address the legacy of slavery in terms of teaching black parents how to parent and says kids should be in school not day care was he criticizing black parents? It sounded like that. Does he have any idea how expensive day care is if you earn just enough to not be eligible for head start? And is he aware of how much more expensive preschool is than daycare?

It’s ok for Biden to be criticized. DU is almost like a cheerleading squad for Joe Biden. Joy Reid and Kamala Harris and anyone else who points out his weaknesses should not be trashed. Joy Reid and Kamala are not required to share in the belief that Biden is a great candidate just because many black women over 40 like him. And yes, his anti bussing vote in 1975 was racist. But that was 45 years ago.

[redstateblues]

16. It's strange that MSNBC can never find a POC to interview who supports Biden

I think it really bothers Joy that Biden has such strong support in the AA electorate

[brush]

19. Ok, but do you have a comment on the thread topic, the lie that's being circulated about Reid?

She actually defended Biden's popularity among AA voters but it's being circulated that she asked for Biden to step down.

[redstateblues]

22. Defended? More like acknowledged

[brush]

24. Ok, so acknowledge the lie.

[highplainsdem]

28. She didn't defend Biden's popularity among AA voters. She admitted he's popular but said it's

because they feel they have to settle for someone like Biden in a racist country.

[brush]

33. She was not the one who called for Biden to step down, right?

And what she said about older AA voters has some validity. AA voters are pragmatic and know the racism of this country better, much better, than any other demographic segment and usually function like canaries in a coal mind as far as where political trends point. Biden is viewed as the one who can defeat the racist trump in the rust belt because of his unionist/blue collar appeal.

Her pointing that out and that being the reason for his popularity among over-40 black voters is real and factual. He's not her favorite but she reports what's factual.

Many seem to have a problem with that, which is probably true as Biden with his blue collar appeal and popularity with AAs is the one least able to be tagged a socialist like Sanders and Warren and thus the one who can beat the racist in the White House.

[Skya Rhen]

39. I wrote one of those threads that you refer to and I am black. Another DUer who wrote another

similar thread is black too. We are not racists so, to answer your WTF question, there is no racism going on.

Nice try, though...

[brush]

40. Maybe not you but what about all the bandwagonning onto threads bashing Harris and Reid?

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 03:01 AM - Edit history (1)

You know as well as I do those aren't all AAs.

It's just too much of it. And it's hypocritical when you think about it—most everyone here knows any Dem has to have the black vote, especially the black women vote, yet there is immediate and seemingly gleeful, mass bashing of these two black women whenever either of their names come up.

You don't notice that?

[Skya Rhen]

45. If any public figure, regardless of their skin color, personally attacks another candidate, they

should be called out for it and they are rightly called out for it.

It's not that people have a problem with certain names that come up - it's that people have a problem with certain tactics employed. You don't notice that?

I agree with you that any Dem needs to have the black vote, however the black vote is not behind the two black women that you referred to - they are largely behind Biden. So, please forgive me for failing to see the relevance of your statement.

[EffieBlack]

52. It's the strategy

And most of them aren’t very good at it since they’re as obvious as hell.

[Demsrule86]

90. Disagreeing with you or others does not make one a racist...you are better than this.

[EffieBlack]

91. Who said it made anyone a racist?

Red herring.

[EffieBlack]

51. Lol

Uh-hunh... Ok

[Kind of Blue]

48. I smell the fear of the black female influencer and the crucial black female vote.

"That meme going around that Joy Reid was pushing Biden to step down is the exact opposite of what happened on her show."

I haven't watched Reid in a few months because I thought she fell in-line with ignoring Sen. Harris. But I was determined to watch today precisely because of what I know of Anand Giridharadas is that he would masterfully articulate the biggest problem many of us have with JB.

A million thanks to Reid for bravely presenting the other view today.

[bigtree]

69. that's just it. I actually felt she favored Biden over Kamala Harris

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

...consistently, and it was aggravating to watch her political segments which were centered on Biden, Sanders, and Warren, not favoring any of them as much as she seemed to favor the front-runner. Same for her guests.

That's what makes this whole thing feel like gaslighting, not to mention that the entire controversy here is based on a tweet people here falsely charged was Joy calling for Biden to withdraw.

[Kind of Blue]

80. My Gawd, I was disheartened by Joy for not even a nibble.

Yes, indeed, I've seen some real dedication to gaslighting, bypassing and other absurd manipulations to discuss anything but what's at the heart of the matter.

Thanks for this OP, bigtree

[bigtree]

85. here's how I feel, and I know it's a partisan view

...but if a black candidate with as much support as Harris has generated, with as much gravitas as she has, can't get an equal showing or voice on a black hosted news show, what's the hope anywhere else?

[Kind of Blue]

86. Wow, Bigtree, that's the saddest question I've heard in a long time.

And when I feel this way, I get solace by understanding what's happening through any of the 11 Rules of Engagement by Dr. Robin DiAngelo. Of the 11, I think 8 of them apply here. I take heart in knowing Joy and Anand, Smith and a host of others I follow are not going to stop and neither will the backlash.

After years of working with my fellow whites, I have found that the only way to give feedback correctly is not to give it at all. Thus, the first rule is cardinal:

1. Do not give me feedback on my racism under any circumstances.
If you break the cardinal rule:

3. There must be trust between us. You must trust that I am in no way racist before you can give me feedback on my racism.

4. Our relationship must be issue-free – If there are issues between us, you cannot give me feedback on racism.

6. You must give feedback privately, regardless of whether the incident occurred in front of other people. To give feedback in front of anyone else—even those involved in the situation—is to commit a serious social transgression. The feedback is thus invalid.

7. You must be as indirect as possible. To be direct is to be insensitive and will invalidate the feedback and require repair.

8. As a white person I must feel completely safe during any discussion of race. Giving me any feedback on my racism will cause me to feel unsafe, so you will need to rebuild my trust by never giving me feedback again. Point of clarification: when I say “safe” what I really mean is “comfortable.”

10. You must focus on my intentions, which cancel out the impact of my behavior.

11. To suggest my behavior had a racist impact is to have misunderstood me. You will need to allow me to explain until you can acknowledge that it was your misunderstanding.

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/white-fragility-and-the-rules-of-engagement-twlm/

[StarfishSaver]

95. Perfect

[Kind of Blue]

100. Thank you, StarfishSaver.

[treestar]

99. Now you're getting hopeless

and there's no solution and every white person is too much of a snowflake. What number of people, black or white or other, do you think is going to see this as a positive for Harris? Not every black person wants to cut off every line of thought to the point where there is nothing but victimhood. Joe Biden as insensitive (not racist) and a tone-deaf white man who therefore should lose to Kamala Harris is not working. And now we're at the point, at least on this board, where admitting white privilege and black disadvantage is blaming black people for racism and hurtful to hear. There's no way but black victimhood. No voter majority will go for that. Not even a majority of Democrats. Not even a majority of black Democrats.

[bigtree]

102. you realize the poster said none of those things you wrote

...and the line about 'victimhood.'

That's a familiar charge, used to deflect from questions of race.

Here's the definition:

Victimhood: a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency.

Clue.

[Kind of Blue]

108. Couldn't get into that rambling mess.

[Kind of Blue]

103. Well, you've got it wrapped up

Rest assured, I will take your bizarre ramblings very, very seriously.
Thanks for your input.

[treestar]

94. How to explain the black voters

supporting Biden to such extent?

Now you are accusing GDP of racism towards Harris and Reid.

People have the same right to push back against them as they do to run against Biden. (Though I'm not sure what Reid is doing, but I got the impression she would not be a Biden supporter. She can't stand the sound of his voice and seems to support Harris on his being not a racist, but every insensitive and tone-deaf, etc. Why Black Democrats still seem to support him in polls is a mystery with all that. Maybe they are trying to educate them? But that would be saying they are not educated, and that is offensive). This is getting tiring in its circularity.

[brush]

109. You have to go a little deeper. Reid and many of her guests point out that most older black...

voters support Biden but younger GenXers and Millennials don't. For instance on today's show Jason Johnson and Tiffany Cross, both younger AAs, stated they were not Biden supporters for various reasons which I won't go into.

She also had former Gov. Ed Rendell on, a long-time supporter of Biden, who shared his views in support of Biden. I felt it was a balanced presentation of the dichotomy that is the black vote now. We are not all Biden supporters. Younger AAs have issues with some stances taken in Biden's very long career.

That's just how it is now and Reid's show points that out and it seems to enrage Biden's supporters.

I myself have recently begin favoring Biden as I feel he can beat trump as he has a blue collar/unionist appeal in the rust belt and the repugs won't be able to make the socialist tag stick to him like they will against more left-leaning Sanders and Warren because voters have known Biden for decades and know he's a middle of the pack Dem.

I like Warren and many of Sanders' positions but my reason for leaning towards Biden is we need to beat trump and he may be the one who can do it, but I don't speak for all AA voters.

[Tipperary]

4. K and r. nt

[YOHABLO]

6. So Joy spoke to every woman over the age of 40? Hmmm. Was that 1 woman, 2,7, 19, ? how many?

"counterfactual" ? That sounds a lot like ''alternative facts". Just sayin folks, just sayin.

[EffieBlack]

8. She didn't say that.

She said every woman over 40 whom she spoke with said the same thing.

This must be “Claim Joy Reid Said Stuff She Didn’t Day” on DU.

[bigtree]

9. nothing you said makes any sense at all

...not one thing.

You didn't even get what she said right.

[brush]

13. See post #3, and at least get what she said right.

[Squinch]

15. Maybe read what she said and respond to that rather than making shit up that has nothing to do with

the story.

[EffieBlack]

25. Some serious marching orders must have been put out

Somebody somewhere must really be worried

[JI7]

11. Joy Reid and Joe Biden are Both Adults

Biden knows he isn't Reid's favorite but he is ok with that. He even challenged her on her views and she is ok with that also. These are adults . At the end they both agree and on the overall goals the country and the need to get rid of Trump.

[bigtree]

12. lets be real here. The only reason we're talking about this is because of a lie

...that Joy Reid, supposedly, said Biden should drop out, based on a tweet that says NOTHING OF THE SORT.

End of story. it's contrived bullshit, pure invention, for whatever purpose intended.

[Squinch]

17. It's haaaaaapening again....

They're trying to seed discord among Democrats and some are falling for it.

Seems like we never learn.

[EffieBlack]

18. Exactly. First, she didn't say that. But so what if she did?

She’s a television personality. Who cares what she thinks? Lots of people on television have all sorts of opinions. Why are they throwing fits at the thought that Reid expressed an opinion (notwithstanding the fact that they’re lying about what she said)?

A few weeks ago, Reid was trashing Pelosi and the Democrats pretty incessantly for not moving forward on impeachment. I doubt that most of the people supposedly up in arms about Reid’s supposed opinion about Biden didn’t utter a peep of protest about that. Now, suddenly, her opinion is worthy of day-long diatribes?

I call BS.

[EffieBlack]

14. True. But some of Biden's fans seem to think he's a delicate snowflake who needs their protection

and that protection must be provided through fierce, fervent swarming of anyone who even suggests he’s not perfect or shouldn’t be awarded the nomination today because he’s a nice guy who was Obama’s Vice President.

And then there are the ones who may or may not actually be fans but have a very clear agenda that is not in the party’s or country’s best interests.

[Squinch]

20. A subgroup of them are acting like the new "bros." And we know from the last batch

of "bros" that you are exactly right: Some just won't allow differing opinions, and some are just stirring shit for Russia.

And before I'm swarmed, Joe is not my first choice, but he's fine with me and I'd vote for him without a problem.

[Cha]

32. Oh really, Squinch.. could you point out

to me where "A subgroup of them are acting like the new "bros"?

Because I'm not seeing that. I love my fellow Biden supporters.

And, why would you think you would get "swarmed".. just because you insulted Biden supporters?

[Celerity]

110. +10000

[Cha]

30. And, all you have are insults@Biden "fans".

[Celerity]

111. +10000

[highplainsdem]

23. Here's the link to video so you can actually hear what Reid said, which was anything but fair

to Biden:

https://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/biden-s-controversial-debate-response-on-legacy-of-slavery-68955205566


First of all, she read some of the harsh criticism of Biden, at the start of the segment, and then she gave her guest a lot of time to condemn Biden for insidious as opposed to open, Klan-style racism.

Her "counterfactual argument" was that there are probably a lot of people who share Biden's views on race and so maybe they'd vote for him this time, even though they voted for Trump last time, when they wouldn't be willing to vote for a progressive or a POC.

Her argument about black support for Biden was similar. She was not actually defending him.

She was saying blacks will settle for him despite what her guest called his less obvious racism because those black voters don't believe the country will vote for anyone better.

I'd call it "damning with faint praise" but I didn't even hear any faint praise.

She was nodding when that Biden critic went on and on about Biden supposedly being a racist.

She told him he'd made a good point when he finally stopped talking.

She smiled when he said some harsh things about Biden.

No, she did not specifically call for Biden to withdraw from the race. But she gave a lot of her show's time to someone who did, and she read harsh criticism from another person calling for Biden to drop out, and all she said in response was that blacks might have to settle for him, and she said it in a regretful tone.

There was no defense of Biden there.

There was no counterpoint.

She could have brought in other people to defend Biden, if she couldn't do it herself. He has lots of supporters. Including, and maybe especially, black supporters.

But instead of bringing any in, she pretended she was speaking for them, and she claimed their argument for voting for him was just "I guess we have to settle for him in this racist country."

Which is nonsense.

[Cha]

29. Wow.. thanks for directing me to this post..

She was saying blacks will settle for him despite what her guest called his less obvious racism because those black voters don't believe the country will vote for anyone better.

Did she forget about President Barack Obama?

Thank you for watching it, highplains.. I absolutely had the wrong impression from the OP.

[highplainsdem]

31. Cha, I was stunned by what she said to make her "counterfactual argument."

And yes, it did seem as if she'd forgotten that this country elected Barack Obama president.

That segment was a travesty.

[True Blue American]

47. I did not bother to watch it because I have heard Joy too many times

Not to know what she is pushing.

I have also observed in my personal life many others who do the same and was surprised to see how many blacks knew much more than I did about them becoming wealthy doing the same thing.

I could say a lot more about personal experience but suffice it to say those people finally went to jail.

[Kind of Blue]

54. No, she didn't forget. She spoke Specifically about Pres. Obama and

the black electorate.

Reid speaking of spending yesterday at the CBC weekend event.

Reid: All of the grown folks that I spoke to, 100% were for Joe Biden, all of the them. Some of them fervently for Joe Biden and that's after the debate. Graphic of Quinnipiac Poll of Aug. 21-26. The polling shows Joe Biden among African American voters, has nearly half, which is what you need to get the nomination. Black voters right now are the reason he's ahead. It is literally black voters who have him ahead. And I think that's partly because black voters don't have a lot of confidence in the electorate. Who you said a lot of them have those same dings as Biden or sometimes Bernie Sanders have. Like they have these dings that are generational about race. And a lot of black voters don't trust the electorate to do another Obama type election. They just don't trust the electorate.

And so their argument is this is the only kind of a person that this country, the way it really is, not the way we wish it is but the way it is would elect...they're only going to elect Joe Biden.

[bigtree]

34. Joy Reid has no more obligation to defend Biden against her guests than ANY OTHER talking head

...and you can't defend against this lie by changing the subject.

So acknowledge she didn't say anything of the sort, and stop this smear.

She has a perfect right to point out that Biden's centrism might appeal to Trump voters. That's how he began his campaign, after all, suggesting he could work with people from the right as extreme as the two segregationists he eventually apologized for drawing an analogy with.

So it's fine for Biden to signal he can appeal to Trump voters, but when Reid points out the same, it's heresy? You crack me up with this nonsense. She made the exact case Biden tried to launch his campaign with, and it's unseemly when it's mirrored, isn't it?

[highplainsdem]

35. The only "smear" was what Reid's guest directed at Biden, which Reid apparently agreed with,

especially because she led into that segment by reading a similar opinion from someone else.

No, she has no obligation to defend Biden.

But she has no right to be considered in any way an objective journalist when she sets up a smear like the one today, which was clearly designed to both condemn Biden and to make AA voters feel they shouldn't support Biden because they're just "settling" for him.

[bigtree]

38. I get that DU is insulated from many things, but you should realize several black writers responded

...to Biden's suggestion in the debate that black children were somehow more responsible for shortfalls and dysfunction in their educational experience than the lack of resources in their schools.

Biden, amazingly, was responding to a question of how to deal with the effects of a legacy of slavery, and found a way to blame black families, and many, many people in the poc community objected publicly.

There was so much of a buzz that this was certainly legitimate news.

To expect the black host of one of only a few black hosted news programs in national network and cable news to neglect to give one of those voices an opportunity to be heard on her show is a curious complaint.

What other news host is expected to ignore breaking and trending news? What other reporter is expected to carry water for your candidate along your perfect lines of defense?

[Skya Rhen]

42. What is "breaking and trending" now is the vast majority of Twitter and FB users condemning Joy for

her role in providing a public platform for Biden to be called on to leave the race. This is the "breaking and trending" news... And it does not look good for her...

[bigtree]

43. obviously, your internet experience does not include 'black twitter'

...which has no prominent writers, bloggers, or other professionals, repeating this bogus lie against Joy Reid that this tweet highlighting a segment of her show represents her 'calling for Biden to withdraw.'

It's such a stupid suggestion, such a dirt-dumb lie, that I would be surprised to see anyone other than anonymous posters spreading it.

[highplainsdem]

57. A Democratic communications director and former journalist had no problem understanding it was

Reid's way of calling for Biden to drop out:

Link to tweet

Of course that woman's expertise is only in communications and journalism, so I guess she wouldn't be able to understand what Reid was doing.

[Kind of Blue]

82. Good Grief, this a wash.

Kerry Townsend Jacob
@kerryfjacob Press Sec by day, news junkie by night.
@CA_Dem
Delegate. Former
@FT

@CNN
, Likes: ☕️, 🐶, news, politics,
@kuhoops

@joebiden
Dislikes:
@realdonaldtrump.

[Skya Rhen]

63. How about actually going on AM Joy's Facebook page and looking at the photo profiles of the

commenters that are disgusted by her. Take a look. Seriously.

One of my favorite quotes is: "There is no one so blind as one who refuses to see".

[StarfishSaver]

62. You hit the nail on the head

They know that what Biden said is very problematic and are pulling out all of the stops to try to shut down, distract from and/or demonize anyone who points that out.

Much of the reaction to the criticism borders on hysteria, possibly because the negative response by more than a small number of black observers and commentators threatens to undermine the "black voters all love Joe Biden unconditionally so you can't ever question his record on race and civil rights" argument and if it's not tamped down and he compounds the problem by continuing to make similar missteps, he might find himself in serious trouble.

So we must be told that anyone criticizing him - especially any black person - is crazy, biased, out to get him, etc.

[people]

78. I agree with you.

[Kind of Blue]

65. "to make AA voters feel they shouldn't support Biden because they're just "settling" for him."

No, Reid didn't just magically appear to speak for those who oppose JB. I'm a good 11 years older than her and have been aware of him as a bane in the AA community from '73 to '08. Sheesh, how can I ever forget participating in protests of that heinous '94 Crime Bill.

As far as I'm concerned she's doing exactly what Dr. King said so long ago of his profound disappointment of white moderates in presenting that reality.

So I have not said to my people: "Get rid of your discontent." Rather, I have tried to say that this normal and healthy discontent can be channeled into the creative outlet of nonviolent direct action. And now this approach is being termed extremist.

Bravo, Joy! I haven't watched her in 2 months because I thought she was too aligned with carrying the Biden electability meme.

[emmaverybo]

41. He launched his campaign by calling out Trump's enabling white Supremacists and neo-Nazis.

He said he could work across the aisles. He has. He also said there are things he could not work
with Republicans on.

He has condemned Trump in the most strong terms. In fact, he was the first candidate to so directly and substantively confront Trump.

I refer you to Jonathan Capeheart’s Op-Ed on Biden’s Iowa speech.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/joe-biden-reminded-all-us-what-presidential-president-would-sound-like/

[SocEpi]

53. Why does anyone have to defend Biden?

He said what he said: In response to a question re: racial justice, disparities, reparations etc. he put the blame on poor parents of color, not on the systems and structures that give rise to differential opportunities in our communities and neighborhoods.

A person can be 100% not racist in their own life and still not understand racism.

The "I had a black boss so I can't feed into structural racism" just doesn't cut it in 2019/2020. Not for a Democrat, at least.

Let Biden defend himself. Let Joy present all sides of the argument. Let Americans decide how much they want their nominee to understand the nuances and complexities of racism in the US.

[LakeArenal]

84. Why do Sanders supporters defend Bernie?

Why are Reid supporters defending her?

DU is for discussion. That’s what we do. Unfortunately our side loves to tear down our side.

If the media, particularly MSNBC concentrated on our collective goal and media wouldn’t show obvious bias
and coach it as “counterfactual” we wouldn’t need to defend our candidates

If perception is more persuasive than fact,
Joy Reid made a remark that sounded wrong enough for the backlash.

What she may or may not have said or meant has taken on a life of its own life.

She needs to deal with it.

[StarfishSaver]

97. "What she may or may not have said or meant has taken on a life of its own life. She needs to deal

with it."

The same thing can be said for Biden. But the people who are criticizing Reid for what she may or may not have said are also anyone who criticizes anyone who criticizes Biden for what HE says. In their view, Biden doesn't have to "deal with" his words at all. It is up to everyone else to interpret what he says in the light most favorable to him and if they don't, THEY are the problem.

[LakeArenal]

106. Did I say it didn't include Biden or his supporters?

Did I say, as a Biden supporter, he doesn’t have to deal with what he says?

I am not exactly sure who you mean as “they” who are the problem.

I thought we were talking about a particular statement that Joy Reid may or may not have said regarding whether Biden should step out.

Whether or not there is bias by a supposedly unbiased reporter.

Not the supporter’s support of their candidate.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

113. It would be nice if people who are still undecided would allow anyone who supports

anyone who is running to let them voice their opinion about the candidate they support. You are so right. I thought undecided meant you haven't selected someone. Not that it means denigrating the decideds.

[LakeArenal]

114. I don't quite know how this post got to be about anyone's support

I thought it was a thread about bias and being supposedly unbiased.

About giving all the candidates a fair shake.
Not just about Biden supporters or any supporters being problems. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Kind of Blue]

56. Let's get Reid's words right: "black voters don't believe the country will vote for anyone better."

Reid speaking of spending yesterday at the CBC weekend event.

Reid: And a lot of black voters don't trust the electorate to do another Obama type election. They just don't trust the electorate.

And so their argument is this is the only kind of a person that this country, the way it really is, not the way we wish it is but the way it is would elect. What do you say to those voters who say, "Yeah. You're right, Anand. This is how the country is and that country is not going to elect any of these other progressive candidates or candidates of color. They're only going to elect Joe Biden."

"But instead of bringing any in, she pretended she was speaking for them, and she claimed their argument for voting for him was just I guess we have to settle for him in this racist country."

These are not just claims. She laid out the argument perfectly for half of black Americans who oppose Biden.

Reid: But I will submit again, as I let you go, the question is going to be how do you convince black voters, particularly black women voters who are the most consistent and the most determined and the most civically minded voters in America-- they are going to vote. How do you convince them that the country is better than doing better than that? Because right now, I got to tell you, people are very cynical about this country and about what it's willing to do. And whether or not electing Pres. Obama was a statement about what the country is or about a moment when the country tried to be different, but really fundamentally is not different, which is why Trump is there. So it's a big question.

Your attempt to dismiss half of us who support other candidates - whether black female, white females, black male, Latino male, Asian American male, whites males - is nonsense.

[highplainsdem]

59. Yes, Reid was clearly arguing for people who oppose Biden. After bringing on someone who called for

Biden to drop out, and and reading from a column by another person doing the same.

In doing so, she made her own biases clear, and she belittled Biden supporters, including his black supporters, as she's done before.

I don't care if you support another candidate. Support that candidiate.

But it's incredibly foolish to demand that that the front-runner drop out, when there's no evidence at all so far that his rivals will ever reach the level of support he has.

[Kind of Blue]

74. Anybody can tell Biden to do anything. Sheesh, he was told not to run before

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

he ran and that did not stop him. So you having conniptions over suggestions/recommendations when it's par for the course in a primary season, using your words, incredibly foolish.

"Why Biden Should Drop Out" and "Why It's Time for Joe to Go" are not demands, so please stop twisting their words.

[betsuni]

44. I have a quibble with one of the things her guest said.

That there are other candidates who are around Biden's age or older who don't share what he called Biden's "milquetoast unconscious bias." I beg to differ.

Haven't they heard Bernie Sanders? Old white people sometimes have unconscious biases and don't know things. It's not on purpose.

White people "don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto. You don't don't know what it's like to be poor."

"What I meant to say is, when you're talking about ghettos, traditionally what you're talking about is African-American communities."

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama, who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012.

"Instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners."

"I'll be honest with you. I really didn't know this was happening. I had no idea hundreds of thousand of Americans, particularly African-Americans, were being held in jail, for months or years, even though they've never been convicted of a crime, simply because they can't afford bail. I've learned a lot."

"Aren't most of the people who sell the drugs African-American?"

"But the people of my state understand, I think pretty clearly, that guns in Vermont are not the same thing as guns in Chicago or guns in Los Angeles. In our state, guns are used for hunting. In Chicago, they're used for kids in gangs."

Appearing on "The View":
BS: "What do you mean by reparations?"
SH: "Reparations for slave descendants"
BS: "But what does that mean, exactly?"
SH: "Money."
BS: "Well, I think that right now our job is to address the crises facing the American people within our communities, and I think there are better ways to do that than just writing a check."

"I was actually at the March on Washington with Dr. King back in 1963. As somebody who actually supported Jesse Jackson's campaign -- as one of the few white elected officials to do so in '88 -- I have dedicated my life to the fight against racism and sexism and discrimination in all forms."

"I've said 'black' 50 times. That's the 51st time."

"I do not believe that most people who are thinking about voting for Trump are racist or sexist."

"But I think the vast majority of Trump supporters are people who are in pain who are struggling economically, who are worried to death that their kids are going to be in even worse shape economically than they are, and they turned to Trump because Trump said things that made sense. He said he was going to take on the establishment, and he was going to provide healthcare to everybody. You know what, it's pretty much what I said."

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African American."

[Kind of Blue]

49. K&R!

[True Blue American]

50. Biden is making a speech on Racism

At 10.45 on MSNBC. I advise all to DVR if at Church. I got to early service so will be home.

Hear what Joe says.

[bigtree]

60. how about giving his FIRST campaign sit down interview with any member of the press

...instead of just preaching to us from the pulpit?

Church is fine, but it's no substitute for answers to the questions raised by his remarks in the debate. This is like the rest of his responses when confronted about his statements concerning race. It's a deflection meant to insulate him from these concerns. I'm not distracted.

[Kahuna7]

64. Been there, done that. For 90 minutes he sat down with black journalists...

and took their questions.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/27/biden-black-reporters-1476637

Joe Biden’s campaign convened a dozen or so black reporters from major media outlets Tuesday for what was offered as a private, off-the-record sit-down with the Democratic front-runner.

But Biden opened the discussion allowing himself to be quoted. And then he started talking, he talked some more, and before everyone knew it, the former vice president had held forth for 90 minutes. That's an extraordinary amount of time for a major presidential candidate to meet the media in a single sitting.

[bigtree]

73. first he wanted to be off record

...but agreed halfway through that was impossible.

How about answering questions BEFORE he gives his diverting speech?

[True Blue American]

66. So Biden is guilty

No matter what he says? Just because a pundit on TV says so?

[bigtree]

72. nonsense. Not anything to do with what I wrote.

[True Blue American]

75. You just complained that Biden should have

A sit down with questions. You were informed he had a 90 minute interview. So my post stands, as is.

After I listen to Joe give his speech I will let you know what I think. I have never gone with the idea of someone who gives me their interpretation of what I just listened to. I intend to record it, too so I can listen again in case I miss or misheard what he says.

[bigtree]

79. why doesn't he answer questions about this before the smokescreen he's going to raise in church?

..we all know what's going on. He wants to make an Obama-like speech like Barack did after controversy over Rev. Wright.

I believe Barack had already extensively addressed that controversy before his speech. Next to nothing from Biden about this and the first significant words uttered afterward about race will be in this dressed up sermon.

It's a diversion.

[Hortensis]

55. Reid's remarks about Democrats like me and Democratic candidates

were the reason I stopped recording her show some time ago now, Bigtree. There's nothing new here.

If she wanted me to watch her show, she shouldn't have started using it to repeatedly mischaracterize me and my motives as a Democrat. If she wanted me to watch her show, she shouldn't be working with MSNBC to defeat Democrats in 2020, using the same techniques as in 2016. MSNBC requires most daytime shows to push the same negative themes when discussing Democrats, and the way Reid could have avoided that job requirement was to turn down the job. Rock and hard place, maybe, but that's the way it is for those eager for their chance to move up, at CNN and other major MSM also.

Politicians are not the only people who like their jobs way too much for our good. You're either part of the enormous problem that's threatening to destroy our nation or you're part of the solution.

[MoonRiver]

58. I watched the entire segment and agree with you, bigtree.

She pushed back pretty hard, and at the end Anand ? seemed deflated. IMHO of course.

[bigtree]

81. yeah, whether one liked her counter argument, it was clear she was pushing back

...against her guest's suggestions.

And she didn't let up with counter arguments, maybe not what his supporters might have said in response, but she certainly DID NOT agree with her guest, AT ANY POINT in the discussion.

It's not just opinion, that's what happened.

[Kahuna7]

61. So what was the purpose of promoting the Biden should quit threads on twitter and

facebook? There was a reason to do it. What do you think it was? She may have given the counterfactual. But that doesn't mean she agrees with it or accepts it. I know for a fact she doesn't agree or accept it. She has tweeted many times insults to people who support Biden, as supporters of the white patriarchy. She might be able to gaslight some, but it won't work on me.

[bigtree]

71. why do journos encourage discussion of trending news among their readers and viewership?

...I guess that prohibition is only reserved for Joy Reid.

Ignoring the fact that several black writers had published pieces on Biden's remarks, allows you to pretend that this is something she contrived, but it perfectly normal for one of a few black news hosts on network or cable to encourage discussion of events breaking in the news among her viewership, especially issues like this one which directly concern them.

[mcar]

67. Kick

[FloridaBlues]

68. Why promote someone on her show that she knew would cause division and one sided bias

Would she do that for the candidate she supports, hardly just Biden who she dislikes.

[bigtree]

70. why do ANY news hosts put people on they disagree with?

...because it's NEWSWORTHY that several journos had publicized articles and statements calling for Biden to withdraw based on his statements.

Joy Reid no more is obligated to ignore breaking news and events than ANY OTHER news host.

Singling out Joy Reid for having a guest who said something you disagree with is wrong, and seems reserved for this prominent, rare, black, female news host.

[True Blue American]

76. As I understand. Joy

Carried it on to twitter and facebook.

You are responsible for what you post! That includes what I post here.

[bigtree]

77. that's what these shows do, more often promoted on social media by aides

...and interns, than the actual hosts.

These have been opportunistic attacks on this black news host, I believe to distract from the substance of what her guest actually said, which has been reduced to mere calls for Biden to withdraw. The substance of what was said outside of his call for Biden to step aside is even more devastating, and, I believe, valid.

Easier to attack this woman for things she did not say.

[StarfishSaver]

83. +1

[True Blue American]

87. OK, I listened to Joe

And then listened to Joy and her guest. SOS.

Now they kept Joy on, she is still at it.

I am now watching The Kitchen.

[bigtree]

88. somehow, I suspect

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 01:05 PM - Edit history (3)

...she hasn't yet received her, 'I'm with Joe" bumper sticker.

She had Ed Rendell on attacking Elizabeth Warren today.

Joy Reid Hates Liz Warren!!!

[True Blue American]

92. Joy is not letting her just guest's

Dis Joe, she is doing the same thing, but by watching first Joe then Joy and her guest do exactly what people are saying I now know the facts.

Did you watch? I promised to give my opinion, and I did. Joy is totally biased.

[bigtree]

93. quotes?

...or it didn't happen.

[True Blue American]

96. If you did not listen

Not my fault. I am not here to fill you in on what you refuse to watch.

Have a good afternoon.

[bigtree]

98. I always watch Joy

...unlike many folks criticizing her here.

[Demsrule86]

89. Thanks for that. I will watch her show on on demand...I miss it... until the Biden remarks she has

been great and I loved her show...stopped watching after the first debate.

[Politicub]

101. Joy Reid is not our enemy.

I don't know where or when the pitchforks came out for Reid, but impugning her character has dominated the primaries forum this morning.

And, as you said, she didn't call for Biden to withdraw from the race.

[bigtree]

104. you absolutely have to wonder how Joy Reid became the target here

...the very day Trump put her in his gun sights.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Politicub]

105. It wasn't by accident, that's for sure.

One of the reasons why the Russian approach to causing chaos is so effective is that they pit like-minded people against one another.

It only takes a few posts and memes to get a fire started on a forum. And if those posts don't catch fire, they'll try something else. Bits and bytes are cheap.

[Celerity]

112. +10000

[Laura PourMeADrink]

115. +1,000,000

[StarfishSaver]

107. Funny how that happened, isn't it?