Gallop polls on reparations for the legacy of slavery

[still_one]

Highlights:

67% say government should not provide cash payments to slaves' descendants
Most blacks support cash-based reparations from the government
Democrats are divided on the question

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- In June, the U.S. House of Representatives' Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties held a hearing on reparations to African Americans for the first time in more than in a decade. While reparations could take many forms, the most straightforward would be cash payments by the government to descendants of American slaves. Most Americans (67%) say the government should not make such payments, but 29% say it should, including the solid majority of black Americans (73%).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/261722/redress-slavery-americans-oppose-cash-reparations.aspx

Here is a discussion on the Democrats position on reparations:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/11/18246741/reparations-democrats-2020-inequality-warren-harris-castro

[YOHABLO]

1. How can you make cash payments to every African American person in the U.S.?

Wouldn't you have to first prove you were the descendent of slavery? There were many African Americans that were not descendents of slavery. And then of course, how do you determine the amount of money given? It's all very arbitrary. Perhaps free college education? But that's what we're working on for all of our citizens. Perhaps housing? I just cant seem to come up with a fair way to compensate African Americans. Other ethnic groups of people were also enslaved; those who were mixed race, hispanic and native Americans. I guess what I need to hear is a plan. So far I'm not hearing it.

[still_one]

2. Most will probably push for some kind of study first on how best to implement it because that

gives them "wiggle room" for the general election where it is less certain how that issue will resonate

You are right, there needs to be a plan, but I suspect many of the candidates would not want to be particularly specific, and leave it in a vague state

[YOHABLO]

9. I think we need to focus on getting rid of Trump and his cobal of thugs. Then we can move to

seriously find a way to make reparations in some shape or form.

[OKNancy]

12. I agree. How would you decide who would get the payment.

There are blacks who immigrated in the 19th, 20th and even 21st century. Would mixed race count?
Then you have Native Americans who could make a real good case for reparations. We're some Asians in the west put in some sort of indentured servitude?
Very complicated.

Education is important, but sometimes I think it's white people who need the educating.

[thesquanderer]

22. Some candidates have talked about reparations but not via cash payments...

...rather other benefits, like preferential mortgages, etc.

But the word is so loaded--and often assumed to mean cash payments--that I think using the word even in "creative" non-cash ways hurts us more than helps us.

[Blue_true]

28. Preferential housing loans would go a long way, as would preferential business loans.

Just have to make sure the programs are not hijacked by abusers.

Preferential housing and business loans would give Blacks the same advantages that Whites have enjoyed for two plus centuries.

People like Woodrow Wilson destroyed a rising Black middleclass. Their names must be stripped from as much as possible, because their acts damaged the entire country, all groups, not just Blacks. FDR need to be brought down a few notches because Truman and Johnson did far more for Blacks than FDR did (Truman and Johnson actually fought racist instead of willingly acquiesce to them).

[Blue_true]

27. You touched on the central problems with the idea.

Groups of people could be set up to invest in Black businesses and housing, but when there is lots of money around, there is eventually going to be corruption.

The simplest would be to simply give each Black American x dollars, but is that fair? A Black person could descent from an African who came to the country 3 generations ago instead of one from centuries here. Since record keeping on post-slavery Black births was atrocious, proof that a person comes from slavery will be harder to show than many assume. What about post-slavery Blacks that have a high percentage of White blood, do they get treated differently than those that are purer Black?

My solution is to get totally serious about discrimination. Systems should be set up to detect racism on the job and the racists must be fired and what they did made public. The victims must get back lost salary and promotions. If this is done with determination, the vestiges of slavery and segregation and past discrimination like Woodrow Wilson firing all government Black professionals will quickly get washed away. We have had affirmative action for decades, but all that does mostly is give companies a regulatory masthead to put on their ads, if you drive deep in those companies, you will find managers and supervisors getting away with discrimination. Performance reviews in companies are jokes, if I try, I can make even a high performing person look like dead wood on a performance review (IF I had that mindset, which I don't, I view discrimination as someone stealing from my company, the same thing as if those people were raiding the company treasury). We can also set up enterprise zones in Black communities and provide financing and expertise to Black business startups. We just can't let corporate America hijack the program, or let republicans kill it, and a system must be in place to insure that the end objectives are being achieved.

[greytdemocrat]

3. Good lord

This is a stupid idea. Move on

[still_one]

4. Stupid or not, this is what is being asked of the Democratic candidates

"President Barack Obama did not endorse reparations or support creating a reparations program. In 2016, Sanders and Hillary Clinton, the eventual Democratic nominee, also did not support reparations. (Sanders in particular was criticized for focusing his opposition on the fact that reparations were “divisive” and would not pass Congress.)
The issue was, and still is, politically unpopular, particularly among white voters.
It’s clear that the Democratic Party is being pushed to have difficult conversations about race and racism — but where did this conversation about reparations come from? And what does it say about the party as a whole?"


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/11/18246741/reparations-democrats-2020-inequality-warren-harris-castro

[Kahuna7]

17. The culprit is Sheila Jackson Lee. What was she thinking? nt

[RDANGELO]

5. This is a divisive issue and a sticky one for the Democrats.

It's an easy one for the Republicans. I am not against it, but it could lose us an election.

[still_one]

6. I agree, and so did President Obama, Hilllary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders, touogh Sanders has

since changed his views on it from earlier this year, I think influenced by political considerations by those more to the left.

Right or wrong it is a divisive issue, and for that very reason it could make us vulnerable in 2020 if we choose to make this a major issue in the election. I think that is the reason most of the current Democratic nominees, except for a handful, either give a vague response, or have not weighed in on it.

[democratisphere]

7. THIS is the kind of issue that will alienate most voters and sink our ship.

Get smart before it is too late!

[still_one]

8. That is reason President Obama and Hillary Clinton were not for reparations.

Instead they wanted to deal with the systemic inequalities in our society

Sanders, up until recently took that same position, but has since changed that view to there should be reparations.

What is really telling though, except for about 4 of the Democratic candidates, most give vague responses to reparations, and there is good reason for that. It is a political hot potato, and they would rather not have this be an issue for the general election, because it is divisive

President Obama and Hillary realized this, and why instead of focusing on "reparations", instead focus on the systemic inequalities in society.

I believe our political adversaries will use reparations as a trap, and I think a good of Democrats will take the bait.

[democratisphere]

13. Two points. None of those involved in the atrocities of slavery are alive today.

Where would the money come from to pay reparations? More debt and deficits? We can't even find money to fix our infrastructure. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to obtain greater equality for many people in THIS country because of our significant population of citizen racists. I hope some day THIS will change, but I don't believe it will happen any time soon.

[Blue_true]

29. We need to put a real effort into insuring that racists pay for their acts.

We allow Nazis to parade, Germany finds a way to throw them in jail.

People caught discriminating on the job must be fired once a real investigation confirms the act. The top person at the division must state publicly the person's name and what he or she did. Victims must get lost wages and promotions. If such a system is vigorously executed, we will see racism on jobs, in housing, on loans wither on it's vine and we will quickly arrive to a better society.

[elocs]

10. Reparations for slavery: beware the Law of Unintended Consequences.

There is already a lot of resentment in this country for Affirmative Action and it's not just Republicans who have it.
Reparations would very likely result in a backlash against blacks which would make life worse for them.
Think it through because it is in no way as simple as some would make it.

[Kahuna7]

16. I'm black and I agree. nt

[Blue_true]

30. What happened with affirmative action is there was no meat to insure that

discrimination did not happen. Racists used affirmative action as a red cape for a bull and nothing was done to make them pay for that.

Companies put in place usually Black affirmative officers who were nothing more than public show toys, while down in the divisions, Black employees routinely got discriminated against for raises, promotions, opportunities.

I have pointed out several times on how I feel discrimination should be handled. I seriously believe that if that is done, we will quickly arrive at a better society.

[Afromania]

11. All that needs to be done is for one group of white people to leave us all the fuck alone

And the other group to HEAVILY encourage group 1 to continue to leave us alone. Guess what, it will cost almost nothing to do. It could happen today, maybe tomorrow if you're feeling A bit lazy.

How much time, manpower and effort would be saved by certain folks if we were just left the fuck alone. The wealth and economic progress that have been stolen from us since slavery probably surpasses 40acres and a mule by along shot. If we'd have been left the fuck alone this probably wouldn't even been an issue. We would have built up generational wealth on our own, just as we are finally beginning to do now. It only took forever because of, you know, reasons.

We put up with a whole lot of garbage out of hand and let most of it slide. So, as I've said before on this board. I'll take my reparations in leave us the fuck alone bucks. I'll take a direct deposit it you don't mind. It will be so nice not having to worry if my linked in profile pic is going to discourage an employer because of my color of my skin. I might even start to not care that Mr highway patrolman has been keeping pace with me for longer than he needs to. He's probably just obeying the speed limit like I am. Life will be 100percent better when I get those leave me fuck alone bucks.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. I can't believe

That the base is going to tear itself apart over this.

Am I for reparations? Yes.

Is there skin in the game (literally) for me? Yes.

If we don't win this election we are back to 1898. We are already in the 1920's.

It's enough. We don't have time for this. I'm now in the "under a year" for our Primary in NJ.

Shit is getting real. They have already floated concentration camp balloons and are now hunting "undesirables" ( homeless in CA).

We gotta wake up.

Time to win.

[Kahuna7]

15. Shame on Sheila Jackson Lee and Rev. Al for making this...

an election year issue and a litmus test, no less. How clueless do you have to be? Do you know how many voters would be turned off by this? A lot. It's not necessary, especially in a presidential election cycle. STUPID.

I already know, many DUers will come at me but save your breath. I've been on this earth long enough to know how unnecessarily divisive an issue this is.

[Blue_true]

32. Both Sheila Jackson Lee and Sharpton are part of the Black agrievement movement.

Unfortunately, many young Black writers and media people are part of that group. We see JayZ get ripped apart while Kapernack gets routinely exalted, yet JayZ is a proven entrepreneur who has empowered many Black singers and business people. I honestly believe that the path that JayZ is taking will lead to more solid progress for Black business people and everyday citizens.

Reparations is akin to waving a red cape at an angry bull. Yes, we can't give into the 30% or so of racist White Americans, but we can't do stupid shit that cause a good portion of the other 70% to question whether their attitudes against racism are right. We need to force White Americans to confront the past in a way that will pull more of them toward actively supporting a more just society, starting with criminal justice.

I remember my first quarter in college. I had two roommates in my dorm room. One was a White rural kid and the other was a Black kid. Both flunked out, so my second semester, there I was with a totally new roommate, while other kids on the floor had the people they started with. It didn't help that my new roommate was an older, selfish bastard who though nothing of locking me out of the room all night while he fucked women inside. At anyrate, my first two roommates were examples of people who should have never been in college. Neither had remotely good study habits. The Black kid spent all of his time pledging and running in the Black frat system, which frankly was somewhat of a joke - no upperclassman in that system mentored him on study, I met a few, they were ok with getting D's all the way through college (that was passing). I have no ideal what the White kid did with his time, I saw him with a book once, panick studying for an exam near the end of the semester, after talking to the kid for a coupe of minutes, I knew that he was done.

I guess the point of my long passage is that when we put in place systems to help Blacks overcome the effects of slavery and segregation for more than a century after slavery ended, we need to insure that we are working to find Black peoples that understand how to take maximum advantage of the assistance and are willing to work their asses off. We can't put in place systems that placate loud voices, just to quiet them down.

[Demsrule86]

18. We need to move forward and help those who need it...regardless of the past...not for

reparations.

[NYMinute]

19. It is a classic wedge issue floated by someone utterly cunning or naive

It will irreparably hurt the Democrats at all levels.

[still_one]

21. What President Obama and Hillary did is turn the issue around. They both against reparations. They

thought it was too divisive, and instead focused on the systemic inequalities that exist today, and to fight for the elimination of those inequities through various means

[peggysue2]

20. Want to lose 2020?

Just keep pushing this idea forward as if it had a chance in hell to do anything but tie an anchor around all our necks. Trump and his cronies must be positively gleeful!

[beaglelover]

23. This is a losing issue for the Democrats.

If this is one of our planks, we will lose the election and probably the house too.

[BootinUp]

24. However each of us answers this poll question, if you think

it’s not a Dem killer in the GE, I have news for you.

[LeftInTX]

25. We need to strengthen civil rights and Affirmative Action instead

Cash is not a long term solution. Plus how would you determine who is more worthy? Many people are mixed race now.

We tried this during reconstruction. It sucks that reconstruction didn't work out, but I think we need to stay the course and focus on progress and civil rights.

[Blue_true]

33. Not only reconstruction.

But around 1919, we had a president actively destroy a burgeoning Black middleclass, think of where we would be today as a nation if reconstruction was not abandoned and Woodrow Wilson did not attack a growing Black professional class? Generational improvement comes when children have role models, think of a Black kid in the 1920 who had a doctor as a mom or dad, instead of domestics as parents (there is nothing wrong with domestic work, some people turn it into profitable businesses)?

We need to stay away from reparations, but at the same time, we must be brutal with discrimination on the job, for loans and for housing.

Someone pointed out that there are more mixed race people today. I believe the number of Black-White children is being way undercounted, where I live I truly believe that 20-25% of the kids that I am seeing as I go around my city and county are mixed Black/White, it is both astonishing and hopeful, those kids have White relatives, who, even if they are racist, have blood that it is harder to discriminate against. It is all screwball, but in some ways reflect some type of progress.

[Baked Potato]

26. No upside to this

This issue could morph into a self inflicted Rat Fuck.

No matter where anyone is on this, timing is crucial, and the time is NOT now.

[oasis]

31. Push reparations and end up with ZERO. Including the White House

Bad timing.