Stop it. You're not going to kill yourself. All right. Stop it...

[Maru Kitteh]

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/16/761126857/man-tells-bernie-sanders-he-will-kill-himself-because-of-medical-debt

DETROW: Lately, Sanders has been turning rallies into town halls where, instead of asking him questions, people vent about their health insurance problems. In Carson City, a man named John Weigel told Sanders how his bills keep piling up to over $100,000. And this exchange may be disturbing for some listeners.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JOHN WEIGEL: I can barely take care of myself. And I do not have the energy to fight these people...

DETROW: Weigel was angry and desperate.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

SANDERS: How are you going to pay off a hundred...

WEIGEL: I can't. I can't. I'm going to kill myself...

SANDERS: Hold it, John. Stop it. You're not going to kill yourself. All right. Stop it...

WEIGEL: I can't deal with this. I have Huntington's disease.

Speaking to that broken man as though he were a child . . "Stop it! . . . Stop it!" was demeaning.
And telling him "You're not going to kill yourself!" is just about the most insensitive, snappish and pitiless thing he could say to a man facing the certain slow death of Huntington's disease.

It is my concern that others having witnessed this exchange might thing that is the appropriate response to someone who bares their heart and tells you they are contemplating suicide.

Stop it. You're not going to kill yourself. All right. Stop it... Is a TERRIBLE way to interact with a person in such pain.
This could have been a teaching moment but Bernie really blew it. Of the dozens of helpful things he could have said in that situation - he said none of them.

So if you have a friend or family member going through problems and/or suffering under the burden of a terminal disease - please do better than Bernie did. You can go to places like this to learn how to start the conversation. .

Here's a nice help guide with do's and don'ts.

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/suicide-prevention/suicide-prevention.htm

When talking to a suicidal person
Do:

Be yourself. Let the person know you care, that he/she is not alone. The right words are often unimportant. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it.

Listen. Let the suicidal person unload despair, vent anger. No matter how negative the conversation seems, the fact that it is taking place is a positive sign.

Be sympathetic, non-judgmental, patient, calm, accepting. Your friend or family member is doing the right thing by talking about his/her feelings.

Offer hope. Reassure the person that help is available and that the suicidal feelings are temporary. Let the person know that his or her life is important to you.

Take the person seriously. If the person says things like, “I’m so depressed, I can’t go on,” ask the question: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?” You are not putting ideas in their head; you are showing that you are concerned, that you take them seriously, and that it’s OK for them to share their pain with you.

But don’t:

Argue with the suicidal person. Avoid saying things like: “You have so much to live for,” “Your suicide will hurt your family,” or “Look on the bright side.”

Act shocked, lecture on the value of life, or say that suicide is wrong.

Promise confidentiality. Refuse to be sworn to secrecy. A life is at stake and you may need to speak to a mental health professional in order to keep the suicidal person safe. If you promise to keep your discussions secret, you may have to break your word.

Offer ways to fix their problems, or give advice, or make them feel like they have to justify their suicidal feelings. It is not about how bad the problem is, but how badly it’s hurting your friend or loved one.

Blame yourself. You can’t “fix” someone’s depression. Your loved one’s happiness, or lack thereof, is not your responsibility.

[JoeOtterbein]

1. It's sick that anyone of us are broke because of medical bills.

With every case I hear of, I feel like a failure because we still do not have Universal Healthcare.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. What's even sicker is people are firing up the outrage Wurlitzer over this.

Bernie and Jane sat down with the guy after the town hall and are working on getting him help.

This wasn’t a suicide hotline. The guy was in a room full of people. There was no need to go in to suicide prevention mode in a room full of people.

Bernie handled it the right way.


Oh, and the guy has a gofundme set up. I donated. The outraged can chip in. It’s up to $35k. The outraged should put their money where their mouths are.



https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-john-weigel-out-of-medical-debt

[BannonsLiver]

15. Yeah

This is actually Disqualifying.

[George II]

27. Bernie gets about $180,000 per year (has been getting $150,000+ for almost 30 years)....

...the guy's bill is $14,000.

They could "get him help" and resolve his problem with a mere 3 weeks' pay and STILL have $160,000 left over.

[Celerity]

35. outrage Wurlitzer

lol

love it

[LanternWaste]

36. As sick as the pretense that benign, inconsequential gaffes are actual concerns?

I get it... holding two separate people to the same standard is often inconvenient to our biases.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Honestly, he's just not that good a listener.

[dawg day]

3. I think you expect a lot from someone out of the blue

Confronted with this kind of declaration. If the first rule is to "be yourself", well, Sanders was being himself... yeah, bossy and peremptory, but he HEARD and responded as himself. He's not Bill Clinton.
And it looks like the man didn't mention Huntington's until after?

How did the man respond?

[thesquanderer]

7. The transcript above does not communicate what was happening.

You can see the video in the post at https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287283510

Also please see my post #5.

[SCVDem]

4. I just got my first SS check

My second will be less due to federal taxes.

Thanks tRump.

I also will do myself before pitching a tent under a bridge.

I respect those who can!

[thesquanderer]

5. I disagree with your assessment. Maybe it's a regional thing?

In this context "stop it" is not a "demand" nor is it in the slightest way dismissive. It is actually empathetic, it's a kind of verbal hug. It's acknowledging the pain.

If you don't see it that way, maybe it's a "New York" way of speaking, with which I am familiar?

[George II]

8. We New Yorkers don's say "stop it" to be empathetic, we say "fagetaboutit".

[dawg day]

25. OT: I was just today driving from LI through Brooklyn, and the Leaving Brooklyn sign said:

"Fuhgeddaboutit."

[melman]

30. That is absolutely not what that means

lololol

[renate]

6. I agree that Bernie handled it poorly, but he's not trained in suicide prevention

I think he responded like most people would--which, again, was incorrect. But that doesn't make him a bad person. When I watched it, I didn't get the impression that Bernie was telling him to shut up or anything--just that Bernie, like everybody else there, didn't want to see that happen. He phrased it very poorly, I totally agree, and I thought so at the time as well. But it wasn't dismissive or doubtful.

As I recall, he asked the man to talk to him after the town hall, presumably to see whether he could do anything to help.

Thanks for your post. It's great information. Especially the part about asking flat-out whether the person is considering suicide. It's so tempting to skirt around the issue, or to avoid it with the mistaken idea that it would somehow give them ideas. When I volunteered on a crisis line, it was one of the first things (or the very first thing) that we would ask, once the person had finished telling us their situation.

[Nanjeanne]

9. Did you even watch the video? I suggest you do. You will hear his voice when he says that - it's

a concerned and compassionate voice saying, "No John. You aren't going to do that" that he followed through with a private meeting with him to discuss getting him help.

I get that there are plenty of people who have their own reasons for hating Bernie - but this is just beyond the pale.

I try not to bother posting at all in the anti-Sanders threads as everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm not going to change anyone's mind here on DU but this is disgraceful.

Yeah - I'm ranting.

[BeyondGeography]

14. I agree

His tone was reassuring. The clip itself was moving.

[Tipperary]

21. Not a fan of Bernie, but he looked like he cared.

I think he handled it as well as anyone. He told the guy he would meet with him afterward. And he did. As you say, he looked concerned and compassionate.

[CTyankee]

32. I'm sure it was a shock for him to hear that so flat out. I think Bernie was shocked and moved.

He sounded like he cared deeply, as any human being would being confronted with such a cry of pain. I just though "OMG."

[JI7]

11. i think you misunderstand . it was him trying to talk him out of such thoughts

he doesn't have experience with this stuff so you can't expect him to know how to deal with it in a more professional way.

but the point was more about trying to get him away from such thoughts.

[NYMinute]

19. Couldn't he have at least validated the man's anguish

with a preamble?

"Sir, I understand your anguish and what you're going through... but ... " for example?

By not validating his sadness and hopelessness, it was effectively made worse. Validating is basic -- doesn't need special training.

Even a fast food worker knows this. "Sir, I understand you are angry that your burger is cold... " for example?

[abqtommy]

12. In my mental health experience as a patient, there's a positive result in being told "stop it".

That has worked for me in confronting many of my behaviors, not only suicidal ideation. It gives me as a patient the thought that maybe suicide isn't a good idea. It's provides a similar effect to a mental health professional making a verbal or written "contract" with a patient that the patient will not accept suicide as an option. While I never made any suicide attempts I appreciated the input.

So while I agree with the balance of your op I don't think you should discount someone saying "Stop It"
on the fly during a political meeting. In my experience it all helps.

[TCJ70]

13. [Expletive Deleted] this post and the high horse it rode in on.

Thank whoever that you, in your infinite wisdom and full access to the internet right now to look shit up, are here to tell everyone why Sanders was wrong. There are many things I expect from our elected officials, but proficiency in handling suicidal people that show up unexpectedly in town halls isn’t one of them.

By the way, what a place to stop quoting the article. The very next paragraph:

DETROW: Sanders and his wife, Jane, spoke with Weigel after the event. And Sanders supporters have since set up an online fundraising effort to help him with those bills.

Sounds like the conversation didn’t start and end with the oh so inappropriate “Stop it” that you’re hung up on.

[Amyishere]

18. Bernie is brusque,but he wasn't brushing him off

I knew he cared. I wish more candidates would talk about our nationwide suicide crisis..because it is part and parcel of the health care crisis in America.

[questionseverything]

28. funny how they get all bent about how bernie handles the guys pain but

could care less about the policy that causes it


which Bernie has spent decades trying to change

[NYMinute]

16. Stop it! Just stop it!! You're not going to post OPs like this again

They are very hard to defend and it hurts feelings.

[bluewater]

23. Mischaracterizing?

seems so

[Amyishere]

17. just don't say what my family said when I told them I was depressed and thinking about it

they told me to quit being such a drama queen.

they might as well told me to go ahead and jump. It would have been kinder. It was such a blow to know for once and for all exactly how little my family thinks of me and my life and my value as a human being.

I am a nuisance to them. A bother. Please don't call again, too much drama. okay.

but they get mad when I post to friends on facebook. Now they defend my tormentor because he is "family" and figure my pain must not be that bad, I will just maintain ...or something.

belittling a depressed person should never be done..because I know how it feels when it was done to me. awful.

[dawg day]

26. That's cruel-- no one can be as cruel sometimes as people who ought to care-

I hope you reach out to your friends all the more now. Families... well, some families don't deserve to be called "loved ones."
I know it's no help, but it really is them being cruel, nothing on you.

[Cracklin Charlie]

20. Thanks for the excellent information.

I sincerely hope I never need it.

[corbettkroehler]

24. Ever Heard The Phrase "Speaking Man-To-Man"?

If not, I suggest you watch this video.

Link to tweet

Bernie's response was one of tough love. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have arranged immediate help for this poor veteran.

Even before the town hall ended, Sanders' people had reached out to the staff of both of Nevada's U.S. senators and at least one member of the House.

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Oh. It's a Bro thing.

Maybe the Bro approach is how we've ended up with the astronomical, tragic suicide rates in all veterans, let alone this gentleman facing a 100% fatal disease.

I absolutely applaud the effort the Sanders campaign has engaged in after this exchange.

The favorable actions of his campaign to help the gentleman are indeed admirable. My ONLY concern here is that arguing with, and belittling suicidal persons is BAD.

[corbettkroehler]

34. More Like, "A Sailor Thing"

"Bro thing" is close. It was obvious that this sailor was in a very bad place. What Sanders had to do was help him snap out of his quite understandable pit of despair long enough to think rationally for a moment or two so that his staff had a moment to swoop in.

Tough love is not belittling. It's a form of aid designed to help the recipient grow. Despite the emergency, the approach remains proven and time tested. The intensity only rises when dealing with current and former members of the military.

During his lengthy career in Congress, Sanders has focused intensely on helping veterans. When he achieved one of his landmark goals as a senator to pass the most sweeping veterans legislation in decades, do you think he didn't hear similar stories in similar situations? He can extrapolate with great confidence that he reacted the way he did in the town hall because he has used that technique in the past to great success.

It worked, didn't it? Results matter. Besides, Sanders is far too much of a humanitarian to belittle people. That is tRump's shtick.

[melman]

29. Holy shit

Of all things to use an attack. Absolutely unreal.

[Hoyt]

31. No Sanders fan, but that is not a response lacking in compassion. Would

likely have said something different, but I doubt any there felt it inappropriate.