Joe Biden Believes in the Good Will of Republicans. Is That Naive?

[BeyondGeography]

Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader and self-described “grim reaper” of liberal legislative dreams, settled into a routine of sorts during Barack Obama’s second term whenever he felt he was cornered by Democrats. Mr. McConnell would rise from his chair in the Capitol, walk to his scheduler’s desk, smile a tight smile, and ask: “Can we get Joe Biden on the phone?”

...”I’ll work with Mitch McConnell where we can agree,” Mr. Biden said this month — adding that on some issues, like gun control, there was no room for compromise. That he could agree with Mr. McConnell on anything is a controversial statement for any Democrat to make these days. But in a sprawling field of 20 candidates, Mr. Biden stands out for his enduring belief in the good will of congressional Republicans. He insists that the G.O.P. has been bullied by President Trump but that civility and compromise will return to Washington once Mr. Trump is gone.

It’s a view that has been branded as naïve and wistful by some Democratic rivals as well as by the ascendant left wing of his party. That criticism is particularly pointed with regard to Mr. McConnell, whose decision to block Mr. Obama’s nomination of Merrick B. Garland to the Supreme Court in 2016 elevated him from mere obstructionist to arch-villain in the eyes of many Democrats.

The criticism has only intensified in recent days as Mr. McConnell has rebuffed Democratic calls to quickly move ahead with gun control legislation and lashed out at Democrats for reviving attacks on Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. As a result, many in the party say, Mr. Biden’s comfortable relationship with the Senate leader is not only out of date, but dangerous.

...During a follow-up meeting in the Oval Office in early 2013, Mr. Obama pressed Mr. McConnell to work on a long-term budget package before the 2014 midterms, when he would be running for re-election in Kentucky, Mr. Reid recalled in a recent phone interview. Mr. McConnell said that was impossible — Republican primary challengers could use it against incumbents.

Mr. Biden responded by saying, “Mitch, we want to see you come back,” Mr. Reid said.

More at https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/us/politics/joe-biden-mitch-mcconnell.html?searchResultPosition=1

[George II]

1. Nothing in that article talks about Biden's present opinion of republicans or McConnell...

....seems like most of it is from 2012 or much earlier.

Why post this now?

[BeyondGeography]

2. Because Glenn Thrush just wrote it?

[George II]

3. What he says in that article is irrelevant in 2019.

[bluewater]

4. Did Biden denounce his postions from 2012-2014?

I missed that.

Please explain why 2012-2014 is irrelevant.

Wasn't that when Joe was Vice President?

[George II]

7. Was he asked to denounce positions from 2012-2014?

[bluewater]

8. So he didn't? Then why are you saying his positions are irrelevant?

Can't have it both ways.

His positions from 2012-2014 and even earlier are still his statements of record then until he renounces them.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. 7 years is ancient history these days!

[bluewater]

12. Bazinga!

[LanternWaste]

52. Goodwill is disqualifying

You guys are really grasping on this one.

Please, continue... the pretense of melodramatic concern over the most benign is revealing.

[Demsrule86]

21. Oh so now, Joe has to denounce any and every opinion he had...going back how long I wonder.

How is you candidate dealing with the Frances Perkins thing? Did she say sorry yet?

[HeartlandProgressive]

24. No, his supporters just can't deny that those are Joe's positions

it's that simple

[Demsrule86]

27. sure they can...you have nothing current...and I for one want a candidate who will try to work with

other side...and then run on the do nothing Senate...so? This is just more noise that make folks dig in...Warren will not win a general after supporting MFA and other expensive policies with no details...so why doesn't she explain how much it costs and how she will do it.

[HeartlandProgressive]

29. so Biden's supporters can deny he said what he said and meant it?

makes no sense

[ehrnst]

43. Why don't you just post something positive about your preferred candidate?

See what I'm talking about?

[HeartlandProgressive]

67. do you follow this advice yourself?

Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2019, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)

not always?

[ehrnst]

68. It's your advice, Hon, not mine. Got called out on committing your own 'selective outrage"

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Or "Hypocrisy" as you like to refer to it.

Certainly you didn't forget your own post. Here it is, for your convenience:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=284911

It's understandable one would be very embarassed and try to change the subject.

Red Herring
Ignoratio elenchi

(also known as: beside the point, misdirection [form of], changing the subject, false emphasis, the Chewbacca defense, irrelevant conclusion, irrelevant thesis, clouding the issue, ignorance of refutation)

Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. While it is similar to the avoiding the issue fallacy, the red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring



Welcome to DU.

[LanternWaste]

51. Of course Biden should denounce goodwill.

Now if he would just outlaw Christmas as well, all would be perfect.




(I'm quickly beginning to believe you guys refuse to hear what you're actually saying...)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. A bit, yes... someone should ask Joe if he still hold those views...

Wouldn't shock me, given other recent statements Biden has made.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

13. Exactly!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. RethugliKKKans are not our friends... Joe needs to get this. This is fuckin' war!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

22. A war we won't win...What is you plan?

Are we going to make witty insults or what...because unless we get the Senate that is all we got.

[Submariner]

6. Of course that would be naive...the right wing fascists have no good will

If there was any good will with repubs in the first place, it all ended when these kind of people stopped the vote, and activist judge fuck-stick Scalia stole the election and handed to Dubya. And it's been downhill fast ever since.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

19. Dead balls on!! Fuck RethugliKKKans!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[yaesu]

9. if there is one thing all of us should have learned by now, even the dumbest among us, is that

rethugs have ZERO good will.

[wysimdnwyg]

11. Mitch McConnell quotes

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." - 2010
"I can’t imagine that a Republican majority in the United States Senate would want to confirm, in a lame duck session, a nominee opposed by the National Rifle Association." - 2016
"One of my proudest moments was when I looked Barack Obama in the eye and I said, 'Mr. President, you will not fill the Supreme Court vacancy.'" - 2016

None of this was during the Trump Presidency. What makes anyone think getting rid of Trump will change a damn thing about what the GOP thinks or does?

[OKNancy]

14. I read the entire article

It doesn't reflect poorly on Joe Biden.

[BeyondGeography]

15. It wasn't meant to...Joe the person is a good guy

The article asks if his thinking is outdated.

[in2herbs]

16. OK, say we nominate Biden based on the belief that only he can beat Trump. What if

something happens to Trump that makes it impossible for him to run for a second term. (God willing). Are we stuck with Biden when there were other candidates who would have moved the country more forward than Biden?

[Doodley]

81. If Trump isn't the nominee, we need a centrist candidate even more.

[treestar]

17. There's no way he is naive

He has experience with the Senate. Maybe it will go to normal with no Dump. McConnell might be gone, hopefully not be the majority leader anyway.

[Demsrule86]

20. Oh please keep it up...all this complete foolishness only helps Joe...but again if we don't ever

work with the GOP on anything...how will we pass any legislation...the senate map is not our friend... Tell me your plan?

[BeyondGeography]

32. I looked carefully...nothing in there about Biden ending the filibuster

As if.

[Demsrule86]

33. He won't annouce it...for heavens sake. But mark my words if that is the only way he will get

Congress to do it.

[brush]

25. That's in the past. Everytime he reaches BACK he gets in trouble. These present-day repugs...

are "my way or the highway" when in power and 24/7 obstructionists when not (see Moscow Mitch and his crowd of repugs meeting on Obama's inaugural day in 2009 to plot strategy to make him a one-term president).

It's troubling that he still thinks the repugs can be trusted. Look at what Moscow Mitch said today about keeping the House-passed gun bill on hold until he gets guidance from trump on how to proceed.

The spineless Senate Majority leader doesn't seem to know that Congress is a co-equal branch of government and is not subservient to the executive branch. Those repugs cannot be worked with.

[Demsrule86]

34. We can do nothing until we have a majority...and trying is not a bad way to begin...I admire Joe

for it. And countless polls show Americans want both sides to work together...

[brush]

40. You do mean trying to get a majority in the Senate, right? Counting on repugs is a dead end.

[Demsrule86]

44. I mean both...there are two years before we can possibly get the Senate...and it is hard to win

either the house or the senate in a midterm when you hold the White House. So what should we do...spend two or four years doing nothing but fighting with the Gop? Yeah, we will be tossed out of office.

[brush]

63. We're fighting with them now and have been so what's the difference? We have to hold the House...

and take the senate because if the repugs are in the majority in the Senate Moscow Mitch is going to keep blocking Dem bills as he is now.

Let's get real, President Obama spent his first term trying to work with the repugs and finally had to go around them with executive orders.

I don't get why Biden things he'll be dealing with the Republican Party of the '80s instead of today's obstructionist repugs.

[Demsrule86]

65. I don't know that he thinks they will cooperate...but we need to try...I think it will continue to

suck if we don't. I don't get why some say oh we need new stuff...we are woke and all but then says everything will state the same...if so we will be tossed out of office pretty quickly.

[LonePirate]

26. Naive is a kind word to describe it.

[Demsrule86]

35. No it isn't...and I prefer Biden's way of thinking...but feel free to make er your views on

Biden known...I know somewhere some person cares about how those who dislike Biden( why who knows)... feel.

[LonePirate]

36. You can prefer Biden's way. The rest of us live in a reality where Repubs oppose us at every turn.

Just be prepared for an avalanche of "I told you so" comments when Repubs will not support a single major policy from a Democratic president.

[Demsrule86]

45. So we throw up our hands and give up...just spend four years accomplishing nothing? We won't win

reelection and I expect we lose the house. You have to try and then run on the do nothing Senate...as Truman did...might work.

[LonePirate]

59. The presidential candidates have to campaign on flipping the Senate or they will accomplish nothing.

That sort of reality and honesty flies in the face of most campaigns. So you can either believe in a fantasy of Republicans in the Senate supporting a Democratic President (something that hasn’t happened since 90s or maybe even the 60s). Or you can realize nothing will get done without a Democratic Senate. Take your pick.

[Demsrule86]

66. I think there will be pressure to get some stuff done...if not we try and run on the do nothing

senate either way campaigning on it is good becaue polls show Americans want us to work together.

[SWBTATTReg]

28. Yes. He should seen how they have been acting lately, with rump and them running roughshod...

over the 99%ers (w/ the 1%ers walking away w/ a heck of a tax break)...also, what about the numerous attempts to undercut the ACA?

[Illegal]

30. Mr. Biden

no longer appeals to those of us who recognize that he is a 'good times' guy. He does well when the way is clear. However, his comments, tho aged, remain true. Moscow Mitch just played corrupt for a russian company to come into a 'depressed' area of his state and relieve him of the real solutions needed to address poverty.

Biden must acknowledge this kind of corruption.

he hasn't.

he is a guy for the good times.

not the guy who can take us to solutions when the way has such intense barriers.

not the guy for 2020.

[redstateblues]

53. So what is Warren's plan for dealing with a Republican Senate!

I haven’t heard her plan for that

[Illegal]

75. haven't heard anyones

and I like that fact.

because its all up for grabs. My impression is that she understands that. She understands the way power and money corrupt. considering that is where we are, exactly, I am listening to the way she plows forward with critical thinking. after trump, critical thinking is very sexy. And, she seems to apply it at every level.

I've heard her plans for everything relevant to our lives. Given she is running for president, that is what I expect. I NO LONGER expect a president to be and proclaim god like powers to do everyting we need a president to do. Trump has impacted that thought stream. i intent to learn from it.

I pick a candidate based on their actions and then listen to intentions. So far, she is the most relevant voice and has a serious vein of intentions running through her.

[Buzz cook]

31. That is one of the things that disqualifies Biden.

Another is that he fails when he tries to make deals
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/28/1868050/-The-tax-deal-Biden-touted-as-a-major-win-was-a-giant-betrayal-of-Democratic-values

https://www.alternet.org/2019/06/the-tax-deal-biden-touted-as-a-win-was-a-giant-betrayal-of-democratic-values/

Biden is better than Trump. If he wins the nomination I will support him with my time and money.

But better than Trump is a very low bar and Biden, if he wins, will be a poor president.

[ancianita]

41. I don't agree, since Dems know that he'll get great talent and expertise from the best in government

The country's Democrats. He'll also choose a damn fine VP who'll be able to take it from there should anything happen to him.

This comment from years ago was cordial, not naive. This comment from years ago was a wave, not a mindset. That "working with Republicans" statement from years ago was before McConnell made his 2016 statements and despicable nomination move. He knows how Republicans are, even more than the rest of us.

He's open, not willful, reads everything, understands how government works well and will have a transition team that will scare the crap out of what Republicans are left standing.

Obama and all the current, great candidates will have his ear, and he'll be a fine president, not just because of the Democratic team he'll have, but with them, just putting this "acting" government back into professional and expert functionality during his one term.

World leaders know him, and trust that they can work with him. With the likelihood that the country's Dems will try to vote him a Democratic Senate to work with, he's going to sign more progressive legislation than Obama did.

Agree or don't. But that's why the poll numbers are what they are.

We'll see the rest by Super Tuesday.

[Buzz cook]

72. Biden is not the only candidate

with a Rolodex.

Biden has a history of coming off second best when bargaining with republicans. That is both before and after he became VP. He had the best available advice those times as well.

[redstateblues]

55. You don't get to disqualify Joe. Sorry

Not your call

[Buzz cook]

71. So no right

to my opinion? Or is Joe beyond criticism?

Who else am I not allowed to criticize? Give me a list.

[GeorgeGist]

37. So was it only the color of Obama's skin ...

that kept them from working with Joe when he was VP?

[BeyondGeography]

39. That was my first reaction

when he talked about Republican epiphanies. Someone should ask him why it would be different with him in the chair.

[Demsrule86]

46. What a nasty thought...you should delete that ...don't see any indication that Biden thinks his

'whitenes' will make him more likely to gain cooperation...seriously a bad post.

[Blaukraut]

38. I don't think he does, actually. The man isn't stupid.

But in order to appeal to the moderate voters who still believe in that pipe dream, he has to humor them. While it infuriates us on the left, as far as election strategy goes, it's not too bad.

[DeminPennswoods]

42. If the GOP holds the Senate, they will not

work with a president Biden any more than they worked with Obama or Clinton for that matter. McConnell will continue to be obstructionist in every way. It's naive to believe to otherwise. GOP-inspired gerrymandering has insured the election of the most partisan Republicans because they have little to no fear of losing their seats. These reps often run for and get promoted to the Senate ensuring it has become increasingly partisan, too.

If, however, Dems take the Senate, Rs will be happy to work across the aisle trying to ensure as much rw language as possible gets in the bills Dems are likely to pass.

[Demsrule86]

47. And...it has always been true.

[DeminPennswoods]

50. I guess I just don't share your

view of Joe Biden being the magical candidate.

[Autumn]

48. Civility and compromise were gone long before Trump. I can't think of a single living Republican

that has shown any goodwill towards people in at least a decade or more.

[BeyondGeography]

49. They'd pay a terrible political price for doing that

They’ve exploited the worst in people and lost control of their base in the process.

And then Trump happened.

[Meadowoak]

54. Trusting the goodwill of Republicans, is how we got where we are now.

[stonecutter357]

56. Elizabeth Warren was a registered Republican well into her 40s. Is That Naive?

[Illegal]

74. to learn and turn

Elizabeth Warren learned a great deal from her time during the 'bailout'.

remember the bailout?

She was the only one looking at the truth and her work which tried to protect we the people was near one of the first things killed by the criminals in wh.

good thing we know that it isn't a crime to learn and turn.



in fact... its an admirable quality in human beings.

[stonecutter357]

85. Cool Story, Bro , !

[zaj]

57. If you don't, then democracy is dead and...

... you are just another authoritian waiting to seize control yourself.

Democracy depends on is trusting each other at some level.

[greymattermom]

58. So what is the correct response to someone who has succumbed to being bullied?

Hate that person forever? Feel sorry for them? Send them to therapy?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. There...

There is a ready made Electoral College majority who wants nothing more than a retreat from crazy town. If spouting cliches about bipartisanship helps Diamond Joe tap into this majority that's fine by me.

[BeyondGeography]

61. The problem on this point is that part of his strength is he doesn't do that

Since I know you're fond of music videos:

[mn9driver]

62. Until the Democrats hold the presidency, House, and the Senate

This is reality if we want to get anything done. A Democratic President who doesn’t have 51 Senate votes and the House can make all the speeches they want, all the promises they want. And nothing will happen. Sanders can’t change that. Warren can’t change that. Biden can’t change that.

A candidate who claims otherwise isn’t being honest.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

64. My worry about Joe is...

we get 4 years of a steady hand at the wheel but come 2024 the GOP (including Never Trumpers who now side with Joe because he's a moderate dem) rally around Nikki Haley.

I have always feared the first female president will be an American Margaret Thatcher.

[Gothmog]

69. Joe is open to work down the aisle and find common ground, just like Barack Obama.

Link to tweet

[BeyondGeography]

70. Yeah, how'd that work out?

Tell Joe his old colleague from across the aisle Orrin Hatch says hello, btw.

[BootinUp]

73. It's a political play. Same as the primary candidates

Who are making theirs albeit in a different way.

[empedocles]

76. 'Good Will'? - pragmatism at play

[Faux pas]

77. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dchill]

78. Naive beyond understanding.

[Garrett78]

79. The GOP has been rotten to the core for 50+ years. Biden is severely out of touch with reality.

[Indykatie]

80. Biden and Dems will Need Some Independent Votes to Win - Why Question A Candidate Being Open

to all support including Republicans.

[Docreed2003]

82. Heres the deal with Republicans

They view everything in the world through a lens of black and white. They have been incredibly effective for decades in brainwashing a generation of voters into thinking that Republicans alone are right and Democrats are wrong, at best, and, in very evangelical areas like where I live, the devil at worst.

What is obvious to us that Republicans are acting in the best interests of their elite donor base at the expense of the rest of the country, is lost on the vast majority of conservative voters because they've been indoctrinated to believe that we are the enemy.

I am all for working to change those hearts and minds but this is not going to be an overnight task. I don't think Joe the man is naive, but it does annoy the shit out of me when he says things like "I know how to work across the isle". I'm sure he did, when he was a Senator, but how the hell did that work under President Obama? The GOP was so willing to work across the isle to confirm Merrick Garland weren't they?! And how about that epic gun control bill after Sandy Hook?! The current GOP are not our friends and are not willing to work with us. To reach their voters will take hard work that will be upon all of us, not just our elected officials, to show that Democrats are not the boogeyman the GOP has portrayed us to be for the past 40+ years

[BeyondGeography]

83. Good points

The other thing to consider is while Republicans have moved far right Biden has since moved left on a whole host of issues he worked on with them. Welfare reform, crime, DOMA, financial reform, national security (ie IWR), etc. Whatever room for agreement there was back in the day has vanished on the major issues of the moment. As you say, he had a front-row seat for that.

“Naive” was in headline of the NYT story in the OP. I think nostalgia is more like it. But yearning for a more collegial time that produced legislation that Biden has now moved away from seems to me a central contradiction of his candidacy.

[pbmus]

84. This might be what you meant...

Link to tweet

[Buckeye_Democrat]

86. There's too many brainwashed and angry GOP voters.

Much of that can be attributed to FOX News, hate-talk radio, etc.

I suppose that some of those voters could've been "born that way" too, since right-wing authoritarianism is deemed a personality trait.

Even if there's some GOP representatives who are secretly reasonable people, many of them don't want to risk upsetting their voting bloc which considers any deals with Democrats to be, essentially, deals with the devil.